The Great Lie is John 3:16

What good would it be if God created us with Him totally at the wheel of our choices - wouldn't that be sort of like a "Stepford Wives" movie? There would have been no point in our creation, nor in Him creating humanity ever.

Ah, but what you're saying is so true. We are like the stepford wives, if we believe in your god. How can you not see that? God is all knowing. he KNOWS what you' ll be doing, every freaking second of your life, right? So, if you decide you'll show up at work butt naked tomorrow, he already knows! Therefore everything is determined and nothing you do is based on free will. How can you not understand this?
ofcourse, this is by the standards of the biblical god. Oh, and by the way, you STILL haven't answered my question: if God is all knowing and he created us, he knew we would screw up. And still he created us. So, tell me, doesn't that make him responsible?
I guess I'm not getting an answer because for most christians it's probably impossible to answer it.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Gwynniver]

reply to post by Gwynniver


more like a classroom, i think,
rather than a club. but in this case, there's are no authorized truant officers as such a thing would be against the teacher's wisdom, which basically states that if someone doesn't want to know, don't force them to come to class. in the case of class, i don't think it means specifically a building, as the human being is now the church building, rather than an artificial construct. so i'm thinking it means, seek out his wisdom through reading and prayer. the church building (i.e. artificial construct) is for edification if you require it -- uplifting, charity, that kinda thing, sharing with others who have similar interests and classes )

at least, that's what i read when i read it last time.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by undo]

reply to post by undo


Yeah....but....Adam was still a creation of god....it does not matter how that creation happened....he was still a son of god. After all, god creates all things....therefore we are all sons and daughters of gods.

reply to post by Pax et Intellectus


just clarifying it for the readers.

at least, that's what i see when i read the texts.
i don't think the first adam was human, btw.

reply to post by Gwynniver

Oh, and by the way, you STILL haven't answered my question: if God is all knowing and he created us, he knew we would screw up. And still he created us. So, tell me, doesn't that make him responsible?

I think it works on the same principles of quantum physics, multiple timelines. all potential timelines are viewable, but the choices you may or may not make on any one of those timelines, is the unknown factor. this we call free will. michio kaku explains the timeline concept (not from a religious standpoint, however):



[edit on 22-3-2010 by undo]

reply to post by orwellianunenlightenment

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This is quite a ridiculous notion and as the previous poster mentioned who's son was Adam ?

The Satan character also needs a father/creator so his origins are ?

Let us not forget that none of these mythological beings require a mother so effectively Adam, jesus, satan are all brothers created by magic.

Things get downright silly because we are told that the one brother jesus is in fact one and the same character as Yahwhe.

So god creates another body to come to earth, for some reason his previous bodies were not suitable and calls himself jesus but also claims he is the son of himself.

For some reason he then tries to get humans who already believed he was real to believe he has now changed his mind about a few things.

He was now willing to offer them something he never offered them before in order to get them to comply with his wishes , something he called salvation. The essence of this salvation is that if humans which he created didn't act according to how one of his other sons (which he created) encouraged them to act they would then go back where they came from and live with him (yawhe jesus) ,instead of being tortured for all eternity by the Satan son as per his own instructions.


In order to make this insane nonsense clear as fog god then instructs humans (one would suppose via satan) to torture and kill him so as other humans will take responsibility for it and feel guilty somehow making them more likely to comply to his wishes.

After god kills himself in the body called jesus which is somehow his only son despite his other sons and creates the hatred for the jews his select people. We then wake up to the fundamental flaw in the sill idea of being able to kill the creator of the universe to begin with.
This messed up thinking then gets more bizarre as yehweh comes back alive again in 3 days with the same name jesus but in a different body.

To add insult to this madness the godmans' followers make it policy to hate jews for centuries for killing a their god, obviously the jews were more intelligent than the xtian retards as they observed that no one died and the xtians seems not to have the cranial capacity to observe that. If yahwhe jesus was actually killed then the voices in their heads are not his/its.

Interestingly enough the insane tale doesn't end there because somehow yahweh jesus was also the great great ---------grandson of his own brother Adam the guy who got punished for doing what got told his brother Satan to tell his wife Eve (she who was made from a piece of adam and also not made from a piece of adam) to tell him.



And this BS is taught to children, christ no wonder the world is so screwed up !

reply to post by yodagod


part of your confusion seems to be based, from what i can tell, mostly in the concepts advanced in the old testament that bridge to the new testamet later on. i think i can help a bit by pointing out there is more than one god in the old testament. and on more than one occassion, other gods activities were attributed to the one god known as yehovah. in essence, the bible is telling you what you want to know, but you really have to want to know it. if you don't, you won't find out unless someone's willing to take your verbal abuse for hours and hours and hours.

reply to post by undo

I think it works on the same principles of quantum physics, multiple timelines. all potential timelines are viewable, but the choices you may or may not make on any one of those timelines, is the unknown factor. this we call free will.

This would imply that free will is an illusion created in order for the creator to experience itself in the imaginary state of division/separation.

You know what Undo, sometimes you come out with some cool thinking and sometimes we can be on the same page. But the minute you start doing your bible stuff as a reality then you drive me crazy..

You strike me as a person that doesn't actually need a jesus or religion in order to move through life. You appear to be aware of all the right answers and nonsense of the bibles but still cling to rubbish bibles stories.

It is clear you simply do not need a bible and appear to be have a greater handle on things than your average sheeple. Can't figure out why you won't let go of all the nonsense though.

reply to post by yodagod


i explained it one time by pointing out that i view yeshua as similar in effect to neo in the matrix. this is a huge metaphor but bare with me.

god is like the mainframe of a perfect computer.
he had a built-in anti-virus program, a guardian program, who's entire purpose was to keep dis-functioning programs from having access to the mainframe. if they didn't have the right coding, no access. he became dis-functional himself and began blocking all programs from accessing the mainframe. in this way, the guardian program acted like a prosecuting attorney, an accuser. he represents satan in the metaphor, like the Architect in matrix reloaded



programs often mistake the guardian program for the mainframe.

yeshua represents the anomalie in the program, just as neo does, by offering what i refer to as a random number generator, so that you will have the correct coding to access the mainframe and bypass the guardian program entirely, all you have to do is ask for it.

i know, crazy me, but ye olde gray matter is not willing to deny what it has experienced.


[edit on 22-3-2010 by undo]

Originally posted by Gwynniver

Bottom line - stop blaming God for mankind's evil choices.

I think that is quite impossible, because god created mankind. He is supposedly all-knowing, so he knew from scratch what we would be like. Yet he created us so he is definitely responsible for the misery of this world. He knew beforehand who would do what, so 1.) he created evil and 2.)there is no such thing as free will, because it was determined from day one what would happen. If god wouldn know that all, how can he be all-knowing
If you actually really believe in this god and what he says is true,then face the fact that he is indeed responsible.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by Gwynniver]

Actually he knew all the paths that could have been. It is mankind who traveled the path that they chose.

reply to post by undo

i think i can help a bit by pointing out there is more than one god in the old testament.

Yes there are but none is no more nor less real than yawheh or each other in fact yahweh makes it quite clear that there are other gods.

If we accept for a minute that all these gods are real then we have no reason not to accept any of the other gods mentioned by humans are real.

The question then remains which (if any) one god was the most powerful or (if at all) the creator of the rest.

Given that the attributes of many of these gods are not unlike that of satan then it would be reasonable to lump Satan in with the rest as a possible contender to the throne of creation.

But this is looking at things in a simplistic childlike manner with religious boundaries.

It is quite clear from ancient sources that early man -

A) Had a very vivid imagination and made up wholly mythological tales in relation to beings that dwelt not on earth. Spent vast amounts of energy and resources promoting theses fantastical stories.

Or

B) Early man did actually witness beings come from somewhere other than earth worshiped them and recorded it the best they could.


The jesus story is no more nor less likely than proposition A but is far far removed from proposition B.

reply to post by undo


I understand where your coming from there (video clip post) but this way of thinking is far in advance of xtianity the religion and the childish jesus is yahweh remission of sins nonsense.

Again undo, you appear for whatever reason to cling to supermarket end of jesus yet at the very same time operate out of the box when you have the courage to lift the lid, (which appears to be on the increase judging by your posts)

It does not harm anyone to suspend their views on jesus for a short time in order to think a little more clearly, satan won't get you simply because he's imaginary and on a deep level you know this to be true otherwise you wouldn't peek.

Originally posted by Gwynniver

Bottom line - stop blaming God for mankind's evil choices.

I think that is quite impossible, because god created mankind. He is supposedly all-knowing, so he knew from scratch what we would be like. Yet he created us so he is definitely responsible for the misery of this world. He knew beforehand who would do what, so 1.) he created evil and 2.)there is no such thing as free will, because it was determined from day one what would happen. If god wouldn know that all, how can he be all-knowing
If you actually really believe in this god and what he says is true,then face the fact that he is indeed responsible.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by Gwynniver]

Why do you think all knowing means "know everything"? Consider that God is life, and that life is knowing. It would be impossible to forgive if you could not forget. God is the god of the living, all alive are of God, in this, the living Spirit which indwells every creature that moves is at once knowing all individually. Better said would be All Cognitive, all living, all aware...but as in ALL not one, lest you consider all as one and one as all. If you would, you would love one another and do to each other what you would want done to you.

God is a body and you are but one cell, one neuron, one synapse, one memory.

No man has ever seen God and lived, because you can't see every being let alone know every being on earth at once, but every being on earth can be alive at once...this is the living God, the substance of all the living.

You have never seen an invisible God, because there is not one, nor a savior in an Idol.

The life given, is the same sense the beginning. Procreate or be forgotten.

Peace

reply to post by yodagod


i think there's a problem with the "far, far removed" concept in your statement. the argument is that old texts that support the person known as yeshua, have all been tampered with by the roman catholic church (hereafter referred to in this post as the rcc) during it's compilation of the biblical texts. and here's where i have a problem with that thought:

1. the rcc did not teach the bible. they took the books, written by other people, translated them into greek and latin, and hid them away. changed all the holy days, converted idol statuary into christian images and took a huge dump on the biblical text they were supposedly the creators of.
then the popes taught what they wanted people to follow, which were papal decrees that frequently had nothing to do with the teachings of yeshua at all. you understand that the roman empire highjacked christianity to ruin it and keep themselves in power, as they were losing alot of power during the beginnings of christianity, when the church was not catholic at all and primarily hiding because they were being murdered enmasse by the roman emperors. the ones not in hiding were being killed off in the roman colliseum, which began generating sympathy for them amongst the roman citizens. this was not acceptable to the emperors.

2. when the holy roman empire, took over a new country, they would force people to attend church and then only offer the service in latin, which the rest of the planet did not understand. so church was just about giving money and confessing to some guy who could no more forgive your sins than the easter bunny, thusly bypassing teaching of the salvation process entirely, once again making a mockery of the writings.

3. and finally, the rcc had no reason whatsoever to falsify documents because no one questioned them. they had absolute power. and when people did start to question, they were either killed, ostracized or put on house arrest. the common citizen couldn't read anyway. martin luther even mentions that he realized the full extent of the problem when he sought out the text of the bible and found it chained to the wall in the basement, written in another language, and after finally reading it for himself, found it did not represent the religion being passed off as christianity at the time.

what would be the need to falsify anything? they were the ultimate knowledge brokers, so ultimate, you couldn't even ask questions.



[edit on 22-3-2010 by undo]

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

procreate or be forgotten

What about those that are sterile, or for other circumstances cannot or chose not to have children? For example, a man enters into marriage with a wife, but the wife must have a hysterectomy related to new health problems.

reply to post by undo






sorry undo, couldn't resist....

Peace

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand




i've seen that in my various visits to the matrix issue.

Originally posted by Gumerk
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

procreate or be forgotten

What about those that are sterile, or for other circumstances cannot or chose not to have children? For example, a man enters into marriage with a wife, but the wife must have a hysterectomy related to new health problems.

Adopt. You're memory is what is saved, not your body. Recalled into the minds of those who love you after your passing. They are the light you will see.

It takes 21 days of habit to form a new neural path. This is why mourning went on for 30 days.

Life is a relay.

Jesus says salvation is of the Jews. Do you know why? Jew from Yehuda, means Celebrated as in Celebrity (a lions whelp...MGM style) Everyone remembers the celebrity.



Peace

[edit on 22-3-2010 by letthereaderunderstand]

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

i've seen that in my various visits to the matrix issue.

Thanks for your good attitude my friend. Good to see you again.

Peace

You all love this thread because you have to feel you are greater and feel further apart from God. You love it when you hear the name is Christ denounced and put down, it is taboo to do so and you thrive on it.

This was mans nature 2010 years ago and this is how some of you people sound today.

Luke 23

18With one voice they cried out, "Away with this man! Release Barabbas to us!" 19(Barabbas had been thrown into prison for an insurrection in the city, and for murder.)

20Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again. 21But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

22For the third time he spoke to them: "Why? What crime has this man committed? I have found in him no grounds for the death penalty. Therefore I will have him punished and then release him."

23But with loud shouts they insistently demanded that he be crucified, and their shouts prevailed. 24So Pilate decided to grant their demand. 25He released the man who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, the one they asked for, and surrendered Jesus to their will.

Text

This is what many want to believe.

Qur'an 4:157 "'We [Jews] killed the Messiah, Jesus,' but they killed him not, nor crucified him. It appeared so to them (as the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man and they killed that man). Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself. Those who differ with this version are full of doubts. They have no knowledge and follow nothing but conjecture. For surely they killed him not."
Text

Jesus may not have died on the cross for some and those who don't believe will want you crucified along with their own ideology which is dark end of the spectrum.

Qur'an 5:33 "The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly."
Text

[edit on 22-3-2010 by The time lord]