Naturally Nocturnal Humans

Originally posted by xxcalbier
sorry to say humans are NOT a nocturnail animal.
what proff you say simple our eyes are developed to see COLOR.
now at night every thing tahts not light up buy city lights is black and white no colors in the dark.
so taht shows we are desined to be awake during the day and theres very few excess light resepters in our eyes as well were virtly blind without the moon light we cant see much at all .
try this mr night owl go into the woods after dark on a moonless night grante youl just give up and sleep till light.
but to a cat it may as well be dusk they can see that much better then us
o alians oo gens ooo lolol just stick in the woods your next vacation for a week no fire at night no flash lights or lanterens youl see just how much of a night owl you are tehn lol

That proves nothing. Not every nocturnal creature has super night vision, and by the way, cat's can see color's.

Why is it a problem for you to accept that there might be people that are different than you? Noone is better than the other, right?

reply to post by Nightflower


Our sleep lab is close to 28 years of focusing mainly on researching this problem and I myself worked there the last 16 years.

We follow Test-Subjects on a tight schedule for the first 6 months (weekly interviews), on a reduced schedule for and additional 18 months (monthly interviews) and lastly on a follow-up schedule (annual interviews) for as long as they are willing to participate.
The interviews are not only questions, the include nights at our lab and a multitude of bodily tests.

Nearly all people that broke out of the new sleep schedule did so in the first 6 months.
The main reason is that they start to let the times slide. 30 Minutes here, 1 hour there, a "skip-day", "I just don't feel tired yet", …
All our subjects that followed the new schedule for a year stayed on it so far without any problems (Physical, mental, …).

I agree with you that not every person is the same and that there are people out there that have sleep schedules that are out of alignment, but they are very, very seldom.

It is okay that a lot of people have found a way for themselves to get by, but it is not necessarily the healthiest way out there.
I am not saying that everybody who describes themselves as a nocturnal person is living an unhealthy lifestyle, but without any confirmation on actually being nocturnal you might be depriving your body from living in an even better state.

I guess it's the same with food.
People know what is considered healthy, but try something else instead.
They might get by pretty well without any problems or limitations but the body is not living to it's full potential or it is slightly deprived of something that might surface many years later.

Forming a new habit is difficult.
If you don't agree with that ask any smoker that ever tried quitting and they'll tell you that it is actually pretty hard because it's not only the mind that pushes you in the other direction, in this case your whole body pushes you in the other direction.
The human body I a remarkable thing.
It can adapt to a lot of things over time, even the most bizarre and unhealthy ones without failing. Unfortunately it becomes harder over time to break something it has done for a long time. And things you have done for a long time become "comfortable" pretty easy.

Kids usually have pretty strict sleep schedules.
Some posts in this threat talked about this already.
They also talked about what they had done when they were in bed and could not sleep.
As I mentioned above most people, especially kids, tend to get up or do other things instead of just staying in bed no matter what.
It sounds like a small thing, but when the body knows "This is the room I'm only in to sleep. This is the bed I'm in only to sleep" than the appropriate response will come over time.
But as soon as you start to use your bed and/or your bedroom otherwise (Watching TV in the bedroom, Meditating, …) your body will not get that clear "Time to sleep" signal it needs.

Stress in people's lives in definitely something to consider too, but that would be too much to discuss here at length.

Some people told me that they really enjoy sleeping now, because they feel like they "mastered" it. It's like a skill they finally learned to do properly.

In conclusion I'd like to state that I do not want to say that there are no nocturnal people out there, but I'd like to say that there are very few even though on the first look it seems like there are a lot of them.

And as mentioned in my previous post I'd like to encourage anyone to try the method described above if they are willing to change their sleep schedule, but only then.

Another good tip I frequently hear is that you can program your body to do your morning routine on autopilot.
Just imagine what you want to do after the alarm rings (Getting out of bed, bathroom, brushing teeth, …) and "simulate" your morning routine in the afternoon.
Set the alarm for 5 minutes, go to bed or use the couch and when the alarm rings do your morning routine.
Repeat that several times for as many days as you like.
When the alarm rings in the morning your body is used to the routine and it will be easier to do it.
You will find yourself in front of the mirror brushing your teeth asking yourself "How did I get here?"

I totally agree with you. There is always some excuse we are given for why we can't sleep at night. The truth is that there is no excuse. My body and mind are just more alert at night. It sucks that the world is catered to people who can sleep at night. How amazing would it be if you can go to school late at night and still have all the classes you need available to you. Or to be able to find any job you would like to get except with a night time shift. I've always had trouble sleeping at night but like the op said, it's not insomnia because I can sleep like a baby during the day. It sucks but since we're outnumbered, we have to suck it up.

sleepingiskey, how can you be so ignorant about the fact that it is in our genes. It is not a learned behavior for most of us. For some it might be, but not for most! How can you say the real nocturnals are only a few, how many of the population did you test?

Most of us have tried for years to change it, and it does not change. And if it weren't for society most of us wouldn't even want to change!

I'm quiet aware that years ago psychologists came up with this idea that all our behavior would be trained and could be changed. That's why some still use electro shocks and stuff like that. But it's complete nonsense!

If you feel healthy with a nocturnal lifestyle, i advise you to accept your body's natural function's and don't try to conform to ignorant society idea's. If we all change because society want's us to, it will only create more misery.

Thanks for this thread. Sounds like I'm reading my own story. Failed in school, am self employed, and have had issues with the problem with family and mate. SPECIFICALLY about the hours my body wants to keep. I read an article a few years ago about a study which said that those who work third shift or nocturnal hours were more susceptible to long term health issues and illness. I thought it was complete rubbish. I've always just attributed my body schedule to seratonin cycles, or, you know hormones...because that is what male doctors blame everything on with us ladies

I just want to say that I've tried all the stinking things/ways/methods people say to "sleep." Well before I had fibromyalgia, I slept at this schedule, when possible, and I preferred it. If I couldn't sleep my preferred schedule, it reared its "ugly head" on the weekends. I'm not sorry for saying that it just sounds like a lot of "be one of us, conform!" to sleep the way the "experts" tell you to sleep. I don't believe it! I also am on a treatment that says to avoid Vitamin D (which isn't really a Vitamin after all but a secosteroid) and maintaining night hours is actually healthier for me. I like that the night-time is quiet, that most people are asleep, not calling me, and not demanding anything of me. I prefer to think and interact later in the day. I absolutely hate mornings and those mornings I must get up for things I cannot get around scheduling at a "decent" time are actually painful, frustrating and hated!

The nice thing that sleeping late in the day provides is that I don't have to answer the phone or compete with other people for resources. Electricity to do laundry, run the dishwasher, etc is cheaper at night. I love sunny days, but it means I have to slather on sunblock and wear dark clothes. I prefer night and always have, doesn't make me wrong or abnormal.

Originally posted by shockedonlooker
Thanks for this thread. Sounds like I'm reading my own story. Failed in school, am self employed, and have had issues with the problem with family and mate. SPECIFICALLY about the hours my body wants to keep. I read an article a few years ago about a study which said that those who work third shift or nocturnal hours were more susceptible to long term health issues and illness. I thought it was complete rubbish. I've always just attributed my body schedule to seratonin cycles, or, you know hormones...because that is what male doctors blame everything on with us ladies

These ill effect's might be true for day people who have to work night shift's, but for us it seems to be the opposite. That should give day people some idea what we are going through when we cannot stick to a nocturnal shedule.

Doctor's are always fast to blame things, they don't understand, on anything they can come up with, but often forget that they don't know everything and that they are not god. Science still has to learn alot, but act as if they knew everything.

Wow im sitting here at my desk 2am. Been working nights mostly for 10 years and I CANT STAND IT. I cant sleep during the day and feel crappy staying up all night. I am definitely NOT nocturnal. That being said I am surprised this is such a shock to people. I guess working midnights I took it for granted some people love the night, and some dont.

Despite what society and the day people think about us, i prefer to sit in the silence of the night than walk in the noisy day, the sun hurts my eyes, i can't stand the heat, phone ringing now and then, ugh... thanks but i prefer the night

I have been extremely nocturnal since graduating from high school (Thanks a lot college lol), but I do have the ability to switch my sleeping habits and so forth. I am actually beginning to move back in terms of how late I go to sleep, because I want to attend more classes, and I have a lot that I want to do with others, and that requires more of a daytime schedule if you will. Thanks for this thread though, because I understand everyone who happens to be a Night Owl (No matter what, I always enjoy night. Between the stars, the peace, and so on, it is truly enjoyable in its own way)!

First of all let me clarify that I never meant for people to give up their ways just to conform.
If you are happy with your lifestyle I'm happy for you too.
I just pointed out what I (and others) found out after years of research.

We also conduct tests in which people move their sleep schedule from a "night sleeper" state to a "day sleeper" state.
And so far even people who said that they could never sleep during the day were able to live happy and well rested on the changed sleep schedule.
So far we only encountered a handful of people who weren't able to change their schedule in either direction (day to night, night to day), but the vast majority was able to change.

Unconscious learning is pretty powerful and most of the time not fully recognized by the person itself.

Tests in which we blocked out any outside influences (sunlight, correct date and time) showed that the perceived time plays a big role in sleep patterns.
It was easier to move peoples sleep schedule around when they thought it was their bed time.
So moving the clock 12 hours in either direction (over time) without them knowing made "night sleepers" to "day sleepers" pretty fast (and the other way around).

Let me state again that I only encourage the people who WANT to change their sleep schedule to try out the method I described.
If you don't want to do it yourself why should you do it?
Everybody has the freedom to decide when to go to sleep and I'm happy that we are able to act upon that freedom.

In addition to that people that never had a working sleep schedule are free to contact a sleep lab of their choice to find out more about their bodies and a way to get restful sleep.

I really like to thank everyone here for posting their own experiences in this thread, because the exchange of information is not only valuable for other people, it is also very valuable for the scientists working in this field.

Whatever your sleep schedule is:
I wish you all a good day/night sleep

The sleep clinic I went to didn't eliminate sources of normal day light. Could that be why it didn't work for me?

They made sure I got normal amounts of daily sunlight, including early morning light, and eliminated all sources of light at night. I still had enormous difficulty sleeping at night, and never felt rested during the day.

In fact, the more light I was exposed to, the worse I felt.

Is it possible or at least conceivable that my problem is two fold? That:

1) They didn't eliminate ALL light so that my circadian rhythm could be made more malleable?

2) Perhaps I'm just photosensitive?

In my case it isn't just that I feel exhausted during the day; I actually feel ill. My allergies and asthma are worse, I'm more hypersensitive to everything (sounds, smells, etc.) and I just generally feel awful. At night I feel serene, calm, and less "inflamed" for lack of a better term.

My doctors and specialists haven't been able to adequately diagnose or treat this particular constellation of issues despite many blood tests, MRIs, echos, even a PET scan (and the aforementioned stint at a sleep clinic.)

Add me to the list! like most people here, i can only keep a "normal" sleeping schedule before going back to my usual 6am to 2pm sleeping pattern, i have always been like this after i turned 14(23 now) i don't know why but i like it.

Originally posted by sleepingiskey
Another good tip I frequently hear is that you can program your body to do your morning routine on autopilot.

...

You will find yourself in front of the mirror brushing your teeth asking yourself "How did I get here?"

if i was ever conscious during the toothbrushing time i would always ask myself that. .) i have always hated mornings. when i got older and had to do something early it was always MUCH easier for me to stay up for it. otherwise it was being done on a type of autopilot, just not a programed one.

i mean no offense about your plan, but you can program yourself to do almost anything if you really wanted to. have to pee when you hear a door bell or whatever weirdness ya want.

I do understand there are people out there with issues with sleep and they need help getting back on a schedule they want or think they need. I know it is not always possible, but i would rather remove constraints than rewire or train a brain. not all night people have 'trained" themselves to be that way.

and to the person who said to go into the woods at night with no light or fire etc. I do. I love it. moon doesnt even have to be full. It could be new or not up yet and if its clear i see just fine. Also I camp the way i live in town. im up at night and parts of the day, but i sleep during the middle bit of the day. I would have to reread all the posts but i dont believe anyone said night people ARE from a different planet or are aliens or such. it seemed to me they speculating or restating something they read etc. none of us know for sure how we got here and if someone wants to discuss a theory or idea no matter how unlikely it seems to me i try to listen and participate. that means trying to explain why i think their theory is wrong, not calling them stupid.

wow im amazed how i can read so many things on one website in one day on so many different topics and feel almost the same way as the general consensus. i even went to the extreme of thinking i may be in the sleeping beauty syndrome catagory because of my strange sleeping patterns and being unable to wake until im ready despite alarms, Phone calls on high ring volume and even shaked and pinching. i have had many of the same experiences as the original woman that posted this and over the last few years have just learnt to accept it. if i get to sleep in the early hours of the morning i can still get up in time to do normal day stuff and get to work for the night shift. i have never been prescribed medication or sought doctors help, and im very glad of that. i did self medicate in the days before my acceptance which did very little, besides heavy drinking to pass out makes it worse, hangovers, irritability during hang over, mostly still over sleeping afterwards and not to mention the calories consumed in beer makes for a sad beer gut too. im glad im not alone and thank online poker, infomercials will make you nuts!!!

sleepingiskey,

I think we have a little misunderstanding here. First you talk about it like it beeing a problem, then you only wan't to give advice to people that want to try to change their rythm. Umm ok.

See, i made this thread to help people to accept that they are nocturnal, and to exchange ideas how to get through life without changing our nature. How to make society accept us, ect..

We don't have a problem, most of us are quiet happy with the nightlife, we only have a problem with society not accepting us.

What you do is the complete opposite from what i made this thread for. I find it actually very rude of you! If you want to give advice how to change sleep rythm, you might want to do it in your own thread.

What you do is like going into a gay thread, giving advise how people could change to conform to societys ideas of normal.

Now if you can give me real proof that we are not normal, and that it's all just on our head, we talk again.

I have a question for everyone who's nocturnal.

How light sensitive are your eyes?

I find every light, that is considered normal for others, to bright, makes me feel uncomfortable and can give me headache. I preffer very little light in my room, more like candle light, and even have to lower the brightness of my pc monitor alot.

I wonder why some stated that we don't see much in darkness. I can see quiet well with very little light. Now im sure a cat can see alot better, but maybe our eyes can make more use of light than day people.

reply to post by Nightflower


lol amazing. yes very light sensitive. even small things like driving at night and when a car or truck is comming the other way. not on high beam either i own alot of pairs of sunnies, pretty much wear them whenever im not home. oh and opening the door to sunlight without sunnies not cool either.

loving this forum.

Sleep has always been an issue for me, especially as a child. It’s amazing how something as natural as sleep can be the bane of a person’s existence. Bedtime was a constant battle between my folks and I, and the mornings were a full on war zone. I would lay in bed for hours trying to fall asleep only to knock out a little while before I had to get up. School was like a walking nightmare to me, and my current 9 to 5 job feels very much the same.

My current sleep schedule is highly regimented so that I can hold down a daytime job. I need copious amounts of valerian, melatonin, chamomile, etc. at night just to fall asleep. I need even more caffeine just to stay awake during the day. Even with a solid 8-hours of sleep, I wake up (after a few rounds with the alarm clock) groggy and unable to function at my best. Ideally, I’d stay up until 4am/ish and sleep past noonish.

I’ve always thought that I was an insomniac, but there isn’t anything wrong with my natural sleep inclinations. Oh, and I love to sleep with the sun beating down on me. I could easily knock out in the middle of beach.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Hazystars]