Naturally Nocturnal Humans

Good post!

And for English not being your first language you are doing very well.

If I didn't have a 9-5 job I would be more nocturna.

As it is, during the weekends I tend to sleep during the day and am my peak performance during the "night hours".

Why ?

Possibly some of us share different dna - that being from a planet that has a different "day/night" than that of earth and we still internally on a dna level adhere to that internal schedule.

Like the salmon that never meet their parents they still have a genetic memory and swim to the exact same spot where they were spawned.

Just a possiblity I am throwing out there.

It's my understanding from some of the books I've read that various people may come from various dna stock and some of those stocks may not be totally indigenous to earth.

Who knows?

When I was young and in nursing, I always opted for the night shift. The people were harder working, because there were less of us and we had to prove to the day shift we didn't sleep on the job but also the people on night shift I connected with more, they were more easy going, calmer, and generally nicer - not pompous full of themself / service to selfers.

I like the night, when the majority of the world has disolved into their world of slumber and the hustle and bustle has quieted down - the silence allows you to just be.

Daytime to me is full of so much empty chatter, mindless prattle and people that scurry around in pursuit of power and empty dialogue.

Suggestion: If you can afford it buy a nice telescope, go somewhere away from the city light pollution and report back to us what you see.

Once I am retired I am going to take up stargazing.

Good luck and best wishes fellow night person.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by ofhumandescent]

It's great to see I’m not alone.

I tend to force myself to bed at 3 - 4 am because I think "I should be going to bed now". If I actually followed my biological clock I would stay up longer.

I'm most creative, and feel more alive at night for the same reasons others have mentioned here, less distractions, peaceful environment, etc.

The thing I hate most about working 9 - 5 jobs, even more than the painfully boring work itself, is getting up at 5 am. I'm not a morning person at all. For me, it's a terrible feeling being woken at this time and it takes me a long time to adjust to the world. I’ll be in a grumpy, zombie-like state for a couple of hours, at least.

Sleeping in is underrated in my opinion. I regularly get up at 1 - 2 pm on weekends and love it, after going to bed at 5 in morning that is.

Good thread Nightflower.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


I liked your post, I couldn't agree more. You get a star from me.

"...empty chatter, mindless prattle and people that scurry around in pursuit of power and empty dialogue." - sounds like a typical day at my office. Dull, unimaginative people, devoid of original thought and ignorant of the fascinating universe that surrounds them.

Oh, and by the way I have a very big 12 inch telescope (I just realised that sounds a bit rude doesn't it?) and live in the sticks where a clear summer's night is a sight to behold. Stargazing is something I highly recommend, it will leave you in awe.

wonderful thread! and im the same way. Ever since i was a kid in school i would usually stay up until 5am, take a nap, then when i came home from school i would go to bed, then i would wake up and do homework and such. I was able to keep good grades that way. All my jobs have always been night shift. Whenever i do have to get up early in the morning im usually sick to my stomach and it ends up ruining my whole day, i end up feeling like crap the whole day. Other thing is id much rather night then daylight. The sun makes me sick and gives me a migraine if im out in it too long. You wont catch me outside during the day without my shades.

I once worked a day shift job for about 6 months and it was HELL!! so many people say day shift is so great cause when they get out of work they can get so much done, but for me all it did was make me feel like # and lay around as soon as i got home!

SnF

Getting morning sun isn't changing my rythm at all. This study is probably made with day people that have insomnia or something like that. And never trust a study you haven't faked yourself :p.

I remember getting plenty of morning sun when i was in school. I would always walk to school for 20 min and then sit near a window. It just made me want to relax or sleep right away. I do enjoy a little sunbathing, but only if i can close my eyes and relax. Sun never makes me more awake. It might work for day people, but does the opposite to me.

Right now we are living in the city, but will be moving soon to a house that's a little more at the outer part of the city, there's a big woody area there and i can't wait to go for walks again at night. Getting a telescope then is really worth thinking about. Been bored for a while and was thinking about getting another hobby, star gazing sounds like a very good hobby for nocturnals .

Thanks again everyone for sharing your storys and ideas. It's amazing to see how many we are and how we go through the same stuff.

Originally posted by missvicky
It would be interesting ( to me at least) to know what the majority of zodiac signs we night owls are.

My sign is Virgo.


To the question about beeing sensitive, i want to say i'm very empathic and can pretty much feel/see through peoples masks and lies. Leaves people pretty confused or even uncomfortable around me when i don't respond to the image they play off but to what i feel inside them.

But we don't know if it is different from day people, there could be just as many sensitives in day people.

WARNING: Long post, but I promise it's worth reading

Working in a sleep lab I met a bunch of "night owls" myself.

Nearly all of them tried to adjust their sleep patterns to a "normal" state but failed miserably.
They had to fail, because they were only focusing on one particular problem at a time instead of looking at the big picture and on top of that they weren't persistent enough to chance their sleep patterns.

Our bodies need some form of routine to function properly.
I'm not saying that it has to be timed down to a millisecond, but a "lose" routine will do the trick.

Most "night owls" learned their sleep pattern from friends or family.
If most of the people around you stay up late chances are you do it too.
On top of that nearly all people have the tendency to stay up a little longer thus shifting your sleep time from the night to the day.
A factor to consider is activity. When you do something intense just before you go to sleep you will find yourself lying in bed wide awake.
To make it even worse we tend to get frustrated and then get up again to do other stuff (Watching TV, Surfing the Net, …) until we get "sleepy".
The problem with this is light and this is a big factor when it comes to sleep.
A TV or a computer screen might not be that bright, but our bodies still perceive it as "day" and because of that it takes longer for the "natural sleepiness" to occur.

Over the years we developed a method by which almost all of the people who followed it were successful in their first try.
A lot of these people were "miserable" during the day and "happy" with their sleep cycle (Sleeping during the day and awake during the night), but after they followed the plan they were even happier with their "normal" sleep cycle.
They felt even more rested and more alert than before.

But before I lay this method down for you all let me just add this first:
Unless you have a serious medical condition you don't need any sleep medication! Period!

That being said I'd like to tell you that our method doesn't work over night.
It takes about one month to complete it.

The key elements are the basic rules:

1. NO caffeine whatsoever, especially not in the morning

2. NO alcohol
(You can skip this one, but this might jeopardize the result)

3. Breakfast is mandatory.
Even if you are not hungry yet, you have to at least eat a little bit.

4. NO Naps during the day.
You are only allowed to sleep during the "Sleep Hours"

5. The sleep schedule has to be followed on ALL days.
So no "sleeping in" on weekends or holidays.

6. NO light during the "Sleep Hours".

7. NO snoozing in the morning.
When it's time to get up, GET UP IMMEDIATELY!

The day is divided into two parts.
The "Sleep Hours" and the "Waking Hours".

Waking Hours:
During this time you are not allowed to be in your bed and you are not allowed to be in your bedroom. And (as mentioned above) you are not allowed to take naps or any other kind of (deep) relaxation.

Sleep Hours:
During this time you are "confined" to your bedroom, more precisely your bed without any light. (Except of course for the occasional visit to the bathroom)
When you are able to sleep, that's fine, but if you are not able to sleep you still have to stay in bed. NO music, NO TV, NO reading … nothing.
(Most people struggle with this one the most, because it could mean several hours of boredom while wide awake)

PART 2

Ok, now that we have established the basic framework I'd like to show you the schedule for the first week.

Day 1:
It doesn't matter what your current sleep cycle is so far, because the first key point is that you stop eating at 3pm until the next day at 7am.
It's okay to stop earlier, but 3pm is the deadline.
It's also okay to drink water after 3pm, but nothing else.

After that initial step the schedule for the first 7 days is a follows:

Midnight to 1am:
Turning off all electronics (Computer, Stereo, …) and unnecessary lights.
The lights that need to stay on have to be dimmed down as to slowly induce the night. Get ready for bed (changing clothes, brushing teeth, …).
If you have time left before the next step (and you should definitely have some left) just engage in "low profile" activity. (Light reading (books, magazines … NO electronics), watching the sky, …)

2am to 7am: "Sleep Hours" (Stay in bed no matter what)

7am:
Get you of bed immediately, make your bed and leave the bedroom.
You are not allowed in it until 2am the next day.

Turn on every light you got and let every bit of sunshine in your house.
(A full spectral lamp for 30-60 minutes helps this process)

Have the mandatory breakfast.

After that you can eat the way you like it, but never forget to drink enough water during the day.

7pm: The deadline for eating. After that only water is allowed.

Repeat the above steps for the first seven days.

You might have noticed that there are only 5 hours of sleep in the first week.
This is key to get you onto your new sleep schedule.
In combination with the 16+ hours without food on the first day your body will slowly adjust to the new schedule.

During the following three to four weeks you just change your "Sleep Hours" from 10pm in the evening until 7am in the morning giving you 9 hours of sleep.

"Waking Hours": 7am to 10pm
"Sleep Hours": 10pm to 7 am
Breakfast: Between 7am and 8am
Last meal: Before 7pm

Avoid caffeine, sugar and especially alcohol 4-6 hours prior to sleep.

It is not going to be easy, especially in the first week, but if you follow the schedule exactly you will get the result you want to have.

Never let yourself "off the hook" and go to bed 30 minutes later.
If the schedule says "10pm: Go to bed. Lights out" just do it.

It is very important that you stick to the plan as I described it above, because you can only form a "habit" when you do it right

After that initial month you can vary the time a little but, but remember to keep yourself on a schedule and set the time to go to bed in the morning and the time to get up in the evening. That way you avoid the trap of "Just 30 Minutes longer in/out of bed". If you set a time, stick to it.

In conclusion I'd like to add that there is another reason a lot of people "choose" to sleep during the day and be awake at night.

A fifth of the population can be called "Highly sensitive persons".
(en.wikipedia.org...)

These people perceive light, sounds and a variety of others things in a different way than other people.
From what I've read on this thread I think some of you fall into this category.
Sounds are "too loud" or "nerve-wracking", lights are "too bright" and so on.
Being on a sub-optimal sleep schedule increases these feelings.
So people shift their sleep schedule and find that the are better off during the night where less of these disturbing factors (light, sounds, …) occur.
(Needless to say that this is not the best way to cope with it)

Maybe you should give the above mentioned method a try and really follow it through this time no matter how miserable you feel during the process.

We do not grow while taking the easy path;
We grow by overcoming great, challenging and devastating obstacles.

Good Night to you all

sorry to say humans are NOT a nocturnail animal.
what proff you say simple our eyes are developed to see COLOR.
now at night every thing tahts not light up buy city lights is black and white no colors in the dark.
so taht shows we are desined to be awake during the day and theres very few excess light resepters in our eyes as well were virtly blind without the moon light we cant see much at all .
try this mr night owl go into the woods after dark on a moonless night grante youl just give up and sleep till light.
but to a cat it may as well be dusk they can see that much better then us
o alians oo gens ooo lolol just stick in the woods your next vacation for a week no fire at night no flash lights or lanterens youl see just how much of a night owl you are tehn lol

So funny this thread should pop up actually, i've been talking about the same thing myself.

I have been like this since I was a kid, I never feel quite right in the daytime and as you say yourself feel at a peak at night! always been like this since I remember

My dad is the same and one of my brothers too, even if i've been awake for a long time I still can rarely sleep at night.....usually end up catching bits of sleep here and there!

Very interesting thread and glad it's popped up, most people just think it's my sleeping patterns that are wrong it really isn't i've just always been this way!

[edit on 21-3-2010 by valiant]

Originally posted by missvicky
It would be interesting ( to me at least) to know what the majority of zodiac signs we night owls are.


Me:Scorpio (heavy) w/ Picses rising

I'm Virgo.

Originally posted by missvicky
It would be interesting ( to me at least) to know what the majority of zodiac signs we night owls are.


Me:Scorpio (heavy) w/ Picses rising

Libra w/ cancer rising

I read a recent study that said people who were late to go to bed had higher IQs...

findarticles.com...

I've always been nocturnal, and even used to make fun of my birth time of 2 pm as I knew even then I didn't want to be up and about before noon.

I have insomnia related to fibromyalgia and it kinda makes me mad when I wake up at 3:30 in the afternoon and it seems like the day has gone by, but it is just something I have to "get over" and accept. I love watching Cheers on Hallmark Channel, 1 am to 4 am. It's the only good tv on, lol...

Scorpio with Aquarius rising.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

I like the night, when the majority of the world has disolved into their world of slumber and the hustle and bustle has quieted down - the silence allows you to just be.

Couldn't have put that any better!!!

It's interesting reading some of the replies here, and to add to the above i'm such a deep thinker myself and that is just something I can rarely do in a daytime, but at night, certainly! when the world seems to be asleep it's so peacefull!

I don't see why nocturnal people are not natural. Our ancestors would of needed people to stay up 24 hours to stand watch and guard I assume. Or desert people would of lived later in the day in the cooler hours. So I personally don't think it is unnatural for people to be later people.

reply to post by nixie_nox



I agree Nixie, it makes sense!

I was about to say in my previous post I feel like a night guard sometimes

I also have a huge dislike of summer, i'm pale white so hate being out in it for starters and secondly there's more hours of daylight in summertime which I dislike, always much preferred the dull weather and longer darker hours!

I'm just now starting to return to ATS and read and catch up and this thread immediately got my attention.

I have known I was nocturnal for many years but always thought it was just staying up too late or too much caffeine, etc. But I have always felt groggy waking up in the mornings and stay that way until 5pm. Once I get to around 5pm I'm awake all the way until 7am in the morning. If I sleep from 7am to 2pm, I wake up focused and awake everytime. It really amazes me how hard it is for me to do the normal sleep schedule everybody else uses.

I battle with inability to concentrate, grogginess, clumsiness, daydreaming, depression and many other symptoms from trying to be a daywalker. What confirmed my nocturnal nature for me was when I worked a night shift in the military and my attitude and health improved so much it was amazing. What is really interesting is if I follow my own body's flow, I will stay up late and finally get tired around 5am in the morning no matter how many hours I stay up. What's especially destructive is I will become so sleep deprived during the week that on the weekends I will end up going to bed at 11pm and sleeping until past noon the next day and still wake up feeling like I never slept.

I'm hoping beyond hope that after I finish college I can land a job that has a night shift and I will be the first to volunteer for it!

Great post, and it is encouraging to have others who know how it feels and share the same dilemmas. Cheers to all of you struggling to cope.

wow! That's very interesting to learn!

I have to say I most likely fall into that category too. I feel like I'm hung over for most of the morning (extremely slow brain and physically knackered), and only generally feel properly awake from around 10pm onwards. I usually force my self to go to bed around 1 or 2 but find it takes a long time for my brain to settle down.

I've worked night shift before for a month part time and working reverse hours was fantastic... not exactly practical as everywhere is shut when you want to be awake... but I felt great and full of energy.

However even if we could get our bosses to understand, it generally wouldn't be much help... I can't see my boss opening the studio for me at 10 pm for me to work on my own all night!

I guess I'll just have to make do with being half asleep all day, and keep on the diet coke and EVIL aspartame to get me going in the morning.

In resonse to sleepingiskey:

Being a morning or a night person is influenced by circadian rhythms, determined by genetics.
The time that we naturally wake up and go to bed is determined by our individual body clock. If one had a body clock of exactly 24 hours, he or she would be perfectly prepared to meet the demands of society. However, people vary equally on both sides of this parameter. Yet, those who rise early seem to be admired by society, and those who rise late are subject to blame. We need to recognize the genetic nature of our circadian rhythms and abandon our prejudice against “night owl's“.
Circadian Rhythms and Chronotypes
An article published as a resource by the Division of Sleep Medicine at Harvard Medical School, “Individual Variation and the Genetics of Sleep At a Glance,” (last reviewed 12/18/07), explains that variations in our body clocks, called circadian rhythms, determine whether people are late or early risers. The variations in circadian rhythms are called chronotypes.
Circadian Rhythms are Determined by Genetics
According to The Harvard study, one’s genetic make up determines the speed of the individual’s biological clock. Mutations in genes often cause differences between the biological clocks of parents and children.
Basically, if the genetic body clock runs faster than average (24 hours), an individual rises early, and in sleep studies is commonly referred to as a “lark.” If the clock runs slower than average, the term “owl” is used and the individual’s internal clock tells him or her to sleep later.
Equal Numbers of Circadian “Larks” and “Owls”
An article that appeared in Chronobiology International, Wittmann M et. al., 2006;23(1-2), states that, although there appears to be an average of 24 hours in the human biological clock, different chronotypes are spread evenly between early and late risers. Average persons, comprising 60 – 70% of individuals fall closely within the 24-hour cycle. The remaining 15 – 20%, who have abnormally rapid or slow chronotypes, are also equally spread in the opposite ends of the sleep spectrum.

The full articel is here:
healthfieldmedicare.suite101.com...

This is only one of the many articles that you can find about the subject. Took me 1 min to google it.
See it has been shown that our genes dictate our sleep and wake cycle. And this cycle dictates blood pressure, appetite, body temperature ect.

I have had a strict sleep wake plan to follow as a child. Light's out at the same time, no tv ect., always eating at the same time. But did it help me to conform to a day active cycle? Nope, even after years it still felt like crap.
You might have had some good result's with some people, but did you test their genes? Did they all fall in the night owl's pattern from a genetic standpoint? Can you be sure that they didn't just have a disorder, or that it was not just a lifestyle for them? How long after your program did you monitor them? Do you know how many did fall back in their old cycle?
It is one thing to say that some people could change their cycle for some time if needed for some reason. But saying everyone can do this for the rest of their life, based on a bunch of people, is dangerous. Maybe their will could overcome their clock, but it could also harm them.
Now if anyone want's to try that program, go ahead, tell us how it went for you. But please don't tell other's they have to respond the same as you. Not every human is the same and something that works for somone doesn't have to work for everyone.
I want to make clear that this thread is for people that are nocturnal because of their genes, to help them to come to accept it, as acceptance is the only healthy thing for some of us to do. Now reasearch in that field is good and needed, but a bunch of people is not science.
And it is completly ok to be night active. If one feel's healthy that way, what's wrong with it? We are not the problem, the ignorant society is.