Would a new 9/11 investigation really accomplish anything?

Hi all,
Last week, one of my friends who knows a lot about conspiracies said that since those behind 9/11 own the system, you can never use the system to beat them. Therefore a new 9/11 investigation panel cannot accomplish anything. So, he said, it's best to just enjoy your life and forget about this.

Could he be right?

I mean, back in 1978 the House Select Committee on Assassinations reopened the JFK case and concluded that "President Kennedy was probably killed by a conspiracy" yet they could do nothing about it.

Wouldn't a reopening of 9/11 result in the same?

Also, when it was discovered and admitted that the Gulf of Tonkin incident that started the Vietnam War was a fraud, no one was arrested or prosecuted for it, even though it led to the deaths of 60,000 American troops and millions of Vietnamese. Why?

Any thoughts?

The investigation would come from a private entity chosen by the people.

reply to post by WWu777


I agree with your friend. George Carlin said the same thing. Here's the link:

www.youtube.com...

I agree, selected & chosen by the people. Because anything would result in the same clash of conspiracy theorys we sort thru here already.

Originally posted by mikelee
I agree, selected & chosen by the people. Because anything would result in the same clash of conspiracy theorys we sort thru here already.

This has always been my question with regard to an investigation. The truth movement now has Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth, Firefighters for 911 Truth, Lawyers for 911 Truth, Scholars for 911 Truth, Pilots for 911 Truth, We Are Change, etc.

Why not convene a convention, gather everything to date, a publish an in-depth, comprehensive, scholarly, scientific and uniform either narrative or critique of 9/11. No more 10 minute Youtube videos with spooky music, half editied interviews, and vague, disparate questions by "citizen reporters". Produce something concrete, with attribution and references.

As they say in academia, "publish or perish".

Given that we already know what and where to investigate, if we had a truly independent panel with subpoena power and veteran teams of police and forensic investigators I think yes, a lot of things would change.

Any new investigation would have to have credibility to BEGIN with and would have to have the legal power to subpoena witnesses, i.e., just as much legal power and justification as any government investigation.

In order to justify such an investigation, one has to present sufficient evidence that all the other investigations - including independent, government, and quasi-government investigations - are wrong by the evidence and conclusions.

It is not sufficient to do what the 9/11 Truth Movement has done for 8 1/2 years: make claims and assertions and say there are "unanswered questions" that have, in fact, been repeatedly addressed, debunked, and whose premises have been shown to be factually inaccurate. Claims, expressions of "doubt", so-called "anomalies", assertions that "NIST violated physics" is just not going to hack it. Someone or some group is going to have to have SOLID reasons and evidence to get to square one because experts in all the relevant fields are going to be asked to advise on the justification for, and the evidence presented for, a new investigation.

The 9/11 Truth Movement has not succeeded in convincing us skeptics, or even in raising any doubts, in the last 8 1/2 years. I don't see how it's possible for you to convince professionals in their relevant fields. (Yes, not even A&E would be able to convince them either, I'm sure.)

So how do you propose to proceed?

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by mikelee
I agree, selected & chosen by the people. Because anything would result in the same clash of conspiracy theorys we sort thru here already.

This has always been my question with regard to an investigation. The truth movement now has Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth, Firefighters for 911 Truth, Lawyers for 911 Truth, Scholars for 911 Truth, Pilots for 911 Truth, We Are Change, etc.

Why not convene a convention, gather everything to date, a publish an in-depth, comprehensive, scholarly, scientific and uniform either narrative or critique of 9/11. No more 10 minute Youtube videos with spooky music, half editied interviews, and vague, disparate questions by "citizen reporters". Produce something concrete, with attribution and references.

As they say in academia, "publish or perish".

They've published a lot already, including scientific papers and full length books. That's not the problem. The problem is the consensus and emotional need to believe in the official story. Consciousness is at a low level.

For some reason, when presented with the overwhelming evidence against the official 9/11 conspiracy theory, many react with ridicule and denial rather than objectivity and rationality. People seem to have some weird psychological block that prevents them from applying reason to the subject.

Oddly, they religiously cling to George Bush's conspiracy theory of 9/11 with unquestioning faith despite the fact that Bush is a proven pathological liar who has pretty much lied even about everything, even the smallest things (e.g. claiming to see the first plane hit the first tower on TV on 9/11 when that footage wasn't aired til 9/12). People seem to have some deep psychological need to believe the official story. It's very odd and irrational. They religiously cling to the words of a known pathological liar in the face of overwhelming evidence, data, testimonials, and scientific facts.

I'm glad to be free of such madness. Are you?

So anyway, why wasn't anyone prosecuted for the Gulf of Tonkin fraud? Did they ever figure out who ordered it and why?

Originally posted by jthomas
Any new investigation would have to have credibility to BEGIN with and would have to have the legal power to subpoena witnesses, i.e., just as much legal power and justification as any government investigation.

In order to justify such an investigation, one has to present sufficient evidence that all the other investigations - including independent, government, and quasi-government investigations - are wrong by the evidence and conclusions.

It is not sufficient to do what the 9/11 Truth Movement has done for 8 1/2 years: make claims and assertions and say there are "unanswered questions" that have, in fact, been repeatedly addressed, debunked, and whose premises have been shown to be factually inaccurate. Claims, expressions of "doubt", so-called "anomalies", assertions that "NIST violated physics" is just not going to hack it. Someone or some group is going to have to have SOLID reasons and evidence to get to square one because experts in all the relevant fields are going to be asked to advise on the justification for, and the evidence presented for, a new investigation.

The 9/11 Truth Movement has not succeeded in convincing us skeptics, or even in raising any doubts, in the last 8 1/2 years. I don't see how it's possible for you to convince professionals in their relevant fields. (Yes, not even A&E would be able to convince them either, I'm sure.)

So how do you propose to proceed?

Obviously you've done ZERO research into 9/11 then if you think it's all about anomalies and unanswered questions.

There are hundreds of facts that contradict the official story. That in itself is enough to to warrant a new investigation.

Explosions were heard and felt, even from the basement by many eyewitnesses, which was ignored by the 9/11 Commission, for example.

See this film for hundreds of compelling arguments that the official story is false and unproven and makes no sense.

"Zero: An Investigation into 9/11"

This film is a masterpiece of historical reconstruction. It features Nobel Prize Winners and experts from various fields who explain with many compelling arguments why the official story of 9/11 is impossible and makes no sense. Everyone who has seen it with a thinking mind has been convinced that we were not told the truth about 9/11 by the US government.

The film has an ebb and flow that makes you feel every point. Many valid arguments and logical points are presented that make so much sense, some of which are irrefutable. It's a MUST SEE for any truth seeker. Many comments on YouTube and Google Video have said that the film has left them "without a doubt" that we were been lied to about 9/11.

Here is the link to watch it on Google Video: video.google.com...

Or on YouTube: www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by WWu777

Obviously you've done ZERO research into 9/11 then if you think it's all about anomalies and unanswered questions.

Actually, I've been involved since March 2002, and I know a lot about your claims. You're welcome to refute the evidence, of course.

There are hundreds of facts that contradict the official story. That in itself is enough to to warrant a new investigation.

Such "claims" of "facts" are what I'm discussing. And remember, there is no "official story." There is only the evidence from hundreds of independent sources and thousands of eyewitnesses that inform us of the accepted conclusions that you must convincingly refute to even get considered for yet another investigation.

Explosions were heard and felt, even from the basement by many eyewitnesses, which was ignored by the 9/11 Commission, for example.

So you claim.

See this film for hundreds of compelling arguments that the official story is false and unproven and makes no sense.

Been there, done that. Nothing refutes the evidence. Sorry. But I am not the one you have to convince.

"Zero: An Investigation into 9/11"

This film is a masterpiece of historical reconstruction. It features Nobel Prize Winners and experts from various fields who explain with many compelling arguments why the official story of 9/11 is impossible and makes no sense. Everyone who has seen it with a thinking mind has been convinced that we were not told the truth about 9/11 by the US government.

Yup. Along with all the other claims we've heard for 8 1/2 years. As I wrote, I am not the one you have to convince.

So how do you propose to proceed?

yes, it would show that the people are awaking ... I dont expect for them to find out who did it, but they will find out that the official history does not possesses any real evidence

Originally posted by Faiol
yes, it would show that the people are awaking ... I dont expect for them to find out who did it, but they will find out that the official history does not possesses any real evidence

The evidence and investigations show quite clearly who did it and how. The 9/11 Truth Movement doesn't believe it but hasn't made any convincing case why the massive evidence is not correct. No evidence has been refuted. Nothing has changed in the 8 1/2 years the 9/11 Truth Movement has made the same claims, including that "people are awaking."

So, what's going to change if no compelling argument for a new investigation can be made? How much longer will it take?

reply to post by hooper


Well said Hooper, I agree.

I think they could as there are some very compelling evidence (or at least circumstancial) to be presented in a more official manner than internet forums and on You Tube & Google vids & the host of websites dealing with this. (No offense ATS)

Originally posted by jthomas
The evidence and investigations show quite clearly who did it and how.

I realize I have already asked you this repeatedly and you don't like to answer it, but what specific evidence are you talking about? Not names of reports or papers, but the actual items of evidence themselves.

For the sake of argument, let's look at the issue of explosions going off at the WTC. Not the sound of falling bodies, but ones like the one that blew out the windows in the WTC1 lobby and caused major damage downstairs according to multiple testimonies, photographs, etc. What specific evidence do you have to prove conclusively what caused this, if these kinds of unanswered questions have already been answered?

Finally someone who agrees with me, besides, even if we did find out that 9-11 was done by " the people who own the system" what could we do??? We are just a part of the system ourselves and "they" own it.

reply to post by thehonestone


When you say "they" run the "system," you know you are really referring to wealthy elitist organizations like the Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations and Bilderberger groups that meet behind closed doors and manipulate through corruption behind peoples' backs. David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission and a senior member of the CFR, even wrote that it was his intention to unite the world with a single central governance.

Because they have to do all this behind peoples' backs and manipulating the system of power that is already in place, exposing what they are doing and how they are doing it would instantly turn things out of their favor. I think most Americans for example would support a ban on so many government, corporate and financial leaders meeting every year behind closed doors to discuss policies and agendas. Corruption breeds in those kinds of environments, especially when the same meetings involve known pushers of one-world government and all the rest.

All you have to do is look back at history to see what kind of cat-and-mouse game this has always been between people trying to subvert the masses, and the masses slowly awakening to it and stamping these rats out again. The rats always just switch sides and start from scratch all over again, but you have the American Revolution, the French Revolution, and a lot of other examples of people realizing their leaders are corrupt, not working in their best interests, and they get pissed off, come to their senses en masse and take them out through brute force. Today if things like 9/11 were fully investigated and exposed we would not have to even take it to violent conflict. We could just ban wealthy lobbies and covert meetings like the Bilderbergers or CFR participate in, and start working in the reverse of the policies they were pushing, de-centralizing power to states and counties/cities, withdrawing permanently from the Mid-East and settling issues with those nations diplomatically, etc.

I have asked myself this question more than once and each time I have a different attitude about how I answer.

Today those that involve themselves with 911 either think the official story is lacking and thus proves that a new investigation needs to be done, and then you have those that believe what the federal government said about Muslims from a cave in Afghanistan and that they alone are the sole reason for 911 and will not want believe anything to the contrary.

What I want to emphasize is that while some issues do take on a big and large political spectrum of concern for some and while you are probably right in that if a new investigation is run like the last, that we wont be any better off than not having one in the first place, but there is also another point of view which so many forget in all the 911 polarization of views.

If you lived next door to your mother and she was murdered and you suspected who did it and the police did nothing and refused to listen to you or to even consider the evidence that you want them to review, then you would be frustrated and most of all you would not stop until you got to the bottom of who killed your mother and you would want to do everything possible to bring them to justice because after all she was your mother.

This holds true for so many who lost their loved one on that fateful day in September and for many who have gotten into the 911 research and such, it all leads to a desire for most to bring those that committed such a crime to justice. Not some political objective, but for the sake of lost loved ones who deserve to have their murderers brought to justice for the heinous crime committed against all who lost their lives and for all who lost their lives afterward as part of a continuing cover up and murder of witnesses related to the 911 crime.

Well, in this same regard I think that any new investigation needs to consider the facts and not the obstruction of justice and media lies that are told to make people think that to request such new and thorough investigation is insane or conspiratorial. It is not insane, it is in fact very logical and normal.

We the people deserve the truth and those that are guilty deserve the credit for their crime. If we can do this, then justice will be had for those that lost their lives, because to do nothing is to dishonor their deaths and to basically say, "So what, let's move on, let's not dwell on the past". These remarks are what undermines the memory of the dead and I for one will never forget them. To prove that belief, I will not rest until the guilty pay for their crime.

To walk away and forget about 911 because it's easier to do is just flat wrong. To conduct an investigation to identify the guilty is a good thing and any effort to undermine a new investigation will be seen exactly for what it is.

Thanks for the posting.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by jthomas
The evidence and investigations show quite clearly who did it and how.

I realize I have already asked you this repeatedly and you don't like to answer it, but what specific evidence are you talking about? Not names of reports or papers, but the actual items of evidence themselves.

You mean to say that the reports, papers, investigations, forensic scientists, structural engineers, chemists, physicists, architects, firemen, FBI, etc. etc, did not rely on evidence?

For the sake of argument, let's look at the issue of explosions going off at the WTC. Not the sound of falling bodies, but ones like the one that blew out the windows in the WTC1 lobby and caused major damage downstairs according to multiple testimonies, photographs, etc. What specific evidence do you have to prove conclusively what caused this, if these kinds of unanswered questions have already been answered?

You forgot the most important part. It's up to you demonstrate there is any reason and evidence that contradicts all the investigations, present it, and demonstrate its validity by solid refutation and evidence.

That's what we skeptics of the 9/11 Truth Movement have been waiting for you all to do for the last 8 1/2 years. The burden of proof remains on the shoulders of the 9/11 Truth Movement to demonstrate its claims. Just "asking questions" is not going to get you anywhere. You have to demonstrate that "questions" are based on sound evidence and premises before anyone can accept them as valid.

Originally posted by jthomas
You mean to say that the reports, papers, investigations, forensic scientists, structural engineers, chemists, physicists, architects, firemen, FBI, etc. etc, did not rely on evidence?

Yes, which is why when I always ask you what specific evidence you are talking about, you answer with these rhetorical questions instead of actually posting any evidence like you are talking about.

I asked a simple question, but did not get an answer to it. If all the evidence exists that you claim exists, you would be able to post it.

I asked what your evidence is for what was causing explosions at the WTC complex, you didn't post any. Because there is no evidence of what was causing them. Only 10 years of speculation by all parties. This is why people want a more thorough investigation.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by jthomas
You mean to say that the reports, papers, investigations, forensic scientists, structural engineers, chemists, physicists, architects, firemen, FBI, etc. etc, did not rely on evidence?

Yes, which is why when I always ask you what specific evidence you are talking about, you answer with these rhetorical questions instead of actually posting any evidence like you are talking about.

What reasons do you have to doubt all of those people, reports, and investigations?

I asked a simple question, but did not get an answer to it. If all the evidence exists that you claim exists, you would be able to post it.

What evidence are you missing?

I asked what your evidence is for what was causing explosions at the WTC complex, you didn't post any. Because there is no evidence of what was causing them. Only 10 years of speculation by all parties. This is why people want a more thorough investigation.

That's certainly your right to doubt the preponderance of evidence but saying there is no evidence and just speculation and you demand that we all satisfy your "doubts" is rather an interesting approach. The fact that I, and most of us, have no doubts and have never been given valid evidence by you or the 9/11 Truth Movement and no valid reasons to have any doubt whatsoever, does not work in your favor in getting anyone to consider WHY we would need yet another investigation.

If you have evidence that would overturn ALL of that massive evidence you say doesn't exist and no expert ever had to come to the conclusions they did, feel free to enlighten all of us. It's your responsibility, after all. The burden of proof remains on your shoulders.

Your present line of reasoning, however, won't get you very far in getting another investigation.