Is the Health Care Reform Bill really overwhelmingly opposed by the American Public???

reply to post by marg6043

Wait for the rest of America tax payer to find out that within the bill is an increase of Medicare and Medicaid taxes

the current proposal in the House under HR 3590 would add an increase in the form of payroll taxes. The bill, as it stands currently, would add .9% to the Medicare payroll tax to those individual taxpayers earning over $200,000 ($250,000 for married couples filing joint tax returns).

The "rest of America" that makes over 200k???

Do you honestly think that is the "rest of America"?

I overwhelmingly oppose the government thinking they are capable of taking over an industry and making it better. Nearly everything big government touches gets tarnished. How many Americans like the IRS? How many Americans can say Medicare and Medicaid really work? How many Americans enjoy going down to the DMV for any reason? I believe wholeheartedly that our healthcare system needs revamped. I don't believe the current proposal is the right one, and I definitely don't believe it will get better by turning it over to Uncle Sam.

Gotta love the puppets who parrot right wing catch phrases like "communism", "death panels", "MOST of real (lol) Americans are against it".

The bill isn't perfect, but I hope it passes, because the status quo is bad, and if it doesn't pass, we'll have another 10, 20, 30 years before anything improves in the slightest. The republicans obviously support the status quo, because that's what they supported when they were in power for 8 years.

Also, people earning more than $200k per year shouldn't worry about a 2.35% tax if it pays for healthcare!

GWB screwed us with Medicare part D. Alot of doctors won't even accept the card. Now the feds want to move in and start messing with the rest of the medical field. No thank you. The feds/state governments could make it better for us. Heck just buying across state lines for insurance would drastically cut down costs. Here we are though. Regulation is needed. Reform is needed badly. This crap they are throwing just isn't going to work. Government involvement hardly ever works anyways.

I believe that instead of arguing over the amount of people who approve or disapprove of health care reform, that someone simply state a few of the modifications that they reject/approve of. This would go a long way in educating people on the bill. In a few short sentences, this would give the nay/yae sayers something to research.
I, for one, have been employed for over 26 of my life. 23 of those years I have spent married. Currently, my health care situation has gotten to the point that I may have to discontinue my coverage just in order to allow me and my wife (we have no children) to continue to have a quality of life that we should expect. 10 years in the past, at half my current salary, insurance was barely a thought to consider. Today, at double that salary, I can barely afford fuel to drive to work. When faced with the option of reform/no insurance, what would be choice of most Americans? Were I in a situation where insurance was just but a thought in the morning, I would certainly oppose it. However, just like many Americans, I am faced with no coverage=Scr**** or reform= scr**ed but covered.
What would you choose???
I'm sure that I wont get many tears from the opposition, but then again, they have coverage.

Seems to me the reps. that are claiming to be watching out for our pocket books are the same folks that got us into the WAR OVER IMAGINARY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. Now lets say that they are sorry and are trying to do better...do we really think that this is not just a way to legitamize the giant healthcare companies raping us more and more for medical insurance? I really doubt if any party has the average mans interest at heart. One party wants to pass anything so they can say they did something the other party doesn't want the opponent to suceed which would give them ammo for the next election. Both parties are probably in bed with the big money anyway.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


You fail to see the irony of the so call "wealthy Americans", we all are going to pay for the health care reform taxes that are heading our way, specially us the working class. . . .

Is always been this way or do you fail to see how the middle class or whatever is left of it is the one with the burden of debt?

Wake up and smell reality.

everybody i know is for it

its just a republican strategy

"EVERYONE IS AGAINST IT!"

...he who yells loudest gets remembered the most

...just now always how they might want to be.

in the end, us ATSers can boil it down to 2 outcomes

1.) It'll pass and everyone will say "the man wanted it to happen, so there was nothing we could do" which also would mean all of this arguing has been for not.


2.) It won't pass and everyone will say "SEE? Americans love republicans" which we all know isn't true, but hey, we gotta even out the stupidity a bit don't we? We ARE dealing with "my team" politics



Either way - do what i'm doing. Grab a beer. Get some pop corn, and enjoy the show.

Because no matter what, someone is going to say "i told you so"

reply to post by marg6043

Is always been this way or do you fail to see how the middle class or whatever is left of it is the one with the burden of debt?

I acutally see it far worse.

Poor don't pay taxes because they either can't work or dont' want to work (far too many fall into the latter)

The rich pay few taxes because they can afford to buy into the loopholes to get out of paying them.


Middle Class? We're screwed no matter what.

We don't get handouts.
We don't get bailouts.

We get a shovel and are told "go dig that rich guy out of his hole"


I agree with Jon Stewart on this one (and i paraphrase)

~Hey Wall Street, if the Supreme Court is right, and corporations should be allowed freedom fo speech just like an individual, then isn't it only FAIR that individuals get to BANK like corporations?

Oh the Irony. It's so obvious and in our faces that it becomes impossible to do anything about.



[edit on 20-3-2010 by Snarf]

It absolutely must be stopped.

It's being forced on us, and we don't want it.

It's unconstitutional, and those pushing it are traitors.

We will long remember those who pushed it.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

I fail to see how that is of any importance at all. Should those that strongly oppose or favor something have more of a say than others???

Should the louder you yell give you more credibility?

This isnt about who yells the loudest its about those that have to pay for it.
Stop with bringing this down to a very stupid level.

reply to post by Sf18443


It may not be the best reform bill, but if this doesn't get passed, there will be NO reform of healthcare. If it's passed amendments, i.e, public option, can be added. If it isn't passed, there will be NO healthcare reform. The GOP doesn't want healthcare reform, period. They haven't since the beginning of time, and they will never want it because anything that takes money out of their pockets will never pass.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Someone listening to Fox News? You know the old saying, if you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it is the truth. Fox News is relentless spewing their propganda.

The most troubling thing I hear is the people who say "those people making over 250k shouldn't complain about having to pay for others healthcare, they can afford it"... Seriously? Because these people have gotten out there and created a reasonably good life for themselves, they shouldn't complain when the government comes in and takes a percentage of there income to pay for the care of those who haven't? I don't make anywhere even close to that amount, but I'll absolutely stand beside those that do to fight a redistribution of wealth scam like the currently proposed bill...

My wife and I both work and we use an HSA to balance the cost of our healthcare. I have to pay every time a member of my family goes to the doctor/hospital, and not just a small copay, but the entire bill. Insurance should be for catastrophically unaffordable occurences, not for every sniffle you get.

I truly dread seeing the possibility of a public option, your quality of healthcare will decline as it has with any other country that has adopted socialized healthcare in any form.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Also, people earning more than $200k per year shouldn't worry about a 2.35% tax if it pays for healthcare!

I love when people say this: People that make that much money shouldn't worry about another tax....

I'm not even in that category, yet I fail to see how a person that went out and earned money -- any amount -- should unfairly be targeted simply because they are able to earn more than the average person.

These aren't criminals earning income from an illegal business -- these are Americans that have managed to succeed financially -- so they should be punished and be forced to support those that don't -- or can't -- work or maintain health benefits? Why?

If a person has a job making $250,000 per year, and has worked for more than 25 years in order to get to the position that allows them to make this amount, I fail to see the reasoning behind why they must now pay a penalty to the government for being successful. Further, what if that person works two or three jobs in order to make that money? Isn't that their right? Isn't it the right of anyone else that wants or chooses to follow that same path?

Lastly, how do you know they don't need the money? Who are we -- or especially the government -- to say how much money a person should make or how they should spend their money?




[edit on 20-3-2010 by lpowell0627]

Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by Sf18443

 

It may not be the best reform bill, but if this doesn't get passed, there will be NO reform of healthcare.

So, to hell with the quality of the bill. To hell with the fact that it isn't what those that wanted this reform bill even asked for. To hell with how imperfect it is -- let's just pass it, cross our fingers, and hope for the best?! Wow -- a nearly trillion -dollar gamble. You're a big spender with other people's money.

The GOP doesn't want healthcare reform, period. They haven't since the beginning of time, and they will never want it because anything that takes money out of their pockets will never pass.

Why should we take money out of anyone else's pockets? Why is it the responsibility of others at all? Don't we have charities for those that want to provide for those less fortunate? Perhaps the US should focus on having American aide drives -- similar to the ones for Haiti. We have shown that when presented with a need, Americans are extremely generous and donate money, time, supplies, etc.

How about this: I can guarantee, not even knowing what you do for a living, that you make more money that 80% of the people living in Ethiopia. Since it is one of the UN's functions to provide aide to those in need and less fortunate, and the US supports these efforts, you are now rich comparatively.

So, from here forward, we are going to impose a 3% additional tax on your income. After all, there are people that have less than you, and so now you have to pay a penalty for being better off than them. What? Oh, you have your own financial problems despite a number on a piece of paper? Too bad -- you make it and others don't, so pay up.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/68b6349acd58.png[/atsimg]

That is what the right wing has been playing on this the entire time, and people here who supposedly are free thinkers have fallen for the fear hook, line, and sinker.

Sure you could do the hard part, and actually read the bill, and actually figure out for themselves what is in it and what is not in it, but that's not the easy route is it? Can't inform yourselves can you?

Just be against it because the administration is for it right?

reply to post by lpowell0627


Regardless of what profession an individual chooses to pursue, that profession must provide not only a living wage, but it must also provide for the other needs in life such as health care and retirement. If any product or service cannot provide these basic needs to it's employees then that product or service is not worth having unless it is being provided on a volunteer basis.

More often than not, when you find a company that can afford to pay a few of it's employees a salary of $250,000+, it does so at the expense of the other employees. Remember, the product must earn a return large enough to cover the living expenses of all it's employees, not just the needs of those chosen elite employees, while leaving the others with a sub-standard wage as well as no health care coverage or retirement benefits. When companies are allowed to operate in this manner, then the social burden of those employees who have been under-compensated is passed on to the taxpayer.

No matter how you look at it, at some point all people get sick and all people get too old to work. So, the way I see it, either we tax those businesses that inadequately compensate their employees or we tax those employees who are over-compensated at the expense of the less fortunate employees. You know the old saying, "Follow The Money."

The easiest way to fix the problem for both employers and employees is to make health care more affordable for everyone. Health care should be a "not for profit" industry, plain and simple. No individual or corporation should be allowed to profit off of someones else's misery.

The reason that union health care trust funds are tax exempt is because they operate under the strict IRS guidelines dictated by ERISA. These guidelines mandate that they operate in a strict "not for profit" manner and that all funds are utilized only for the benefit of the beneficiaries of the trust. No CEO bonuses, No dividends for shareholders, No money for lobbyist or public relations TV commercials.

No one deserves to die just because they are poor and can't afford to see a doctor and no one deserves to go bankrupt just because they get sick. If the republicans had a better answer to the health care dilemma, then they should have presented it instead of playing childish games with other peoples lives.

The only real answer is a Single Payer, "Not For Profit" health care system.

reply to post by Dbriefed

We will long remember those who pushed it.

And by 'we' i assume you mean you and a few others?

Despite what Sean Hannity will falsify and tell you - there are actually tens of millions of Americans who want it to happen.

I'll be completely honest - i don't like Insurance companies. Wanna talk about 'death-panels'? We already have them.

A human being should not be denied medical care simply because they can't afford the thousands of dollars required to get it.

Absolutely pathetic.


Also - it's not violating the constitution. I love how you, and others, cite this so often, saying it over and over and over again, but never once can you point to where and how.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

Should the louder you yell give you more credibility?

Didn't you study government in 12th grade? The squeaky wheel gets the oil. That is supposed to be a foundation of our democratic system. Part of the way to protect the underdog. If he barks loud enough he gets attention and corrects whatever.

It's hardly worth debating anymore. No offense to you, just generally.The only ones who want to argue are paid government shills. Nobody else seems to be there anymore. The shills must feel good doing a good job, defending the government from us questioners, always demanding our rights. It's all over anyway. There isn't enough america left to fight over. The pbt have won and will start depopulating soon. The CIA druggie goons are lurking around Juarez ready to be assigned to terrorize Mainstreet America. Haiti is being clubbed and starved to death. They estimated 200,000 killed, because that was the number they intended to dispose of. America isn't just a bad joke, it is a viscious deception. I don't even care any more. Its like on the beach. We just wait around to die, in this case to wait around for their goons to get here. America is dead and there's not much you can do to stay alive yourself.
America is full of good people, and delightful children. To bad nobody cares to defend them against our "enemies within" The Constitution and rule of law and the fact that people agreed to live under it kept our society reasonable. Unreasonable means Shindler's list situation. We can't keep ourselves alive against wolves and dogs which is what our politics has become. You can see the wolves circling. They've got their gun laws, and now their death panels. the public stays asleep and won't recognize any danger. The mainstream media are their watchmen on the wall. Obama is their father and savior. They are hyper against the Muslim hoard. The eat up whatever the MSM feeds them I'll bet Obama and Osama were friends. This may seem off topic so snip away. I don't care Im probably not coming back here again.