My personal experience with cops

reply to post by rcwj1975



I believe you said you had the case number so if you say he was let off only to appear in court I have no reason to dispute it. It'll still get tossed unless they boondoggle him into a plea deal. BTW, Miranda is important. I know this by how many cases get thrown out. It really does make or break a case when presenting facts before the court. There is a difference between have to do and should do, and it's not a kick, it's a useful tool for defense purposes.








[edit on 19-3-2010 by Fromabove]

reply to post by Fromabove


I agree its important, and should be read at the appropriate times or when in doubt, but your saying he was released because his rights weren't read and THAT is just plain wrong.

Not reading miranda WILL destroy your case sometimes, agreed, but the situation dictates that.

This is the reason why the case will be tossed out.

Originally posted by Pajjikor

When we got back to the station i went out for a cigarette. While smoking a cop came up to me, this is when all the trouble began.

The cop started to put me in handcuffs, i freaked out and asked him what I was being charged with and fought back. He told me he didn't have to tell me, I assured him he did. Then he pulled out his baton and hit me in the leg until I fell to the ground. At this point he still had not gotten the cuffs on me. He held me to the ground until another officer showed up and together they put me in both feet and hand cuffs.



Pajjikor

Originally posted by rcwj1975
reply to post by Fromabove

 

I agree its important, and should be read at the appropriate times or when in doubt, but your saying he was released because his rights weren't read and THAT is just plain wrong.

Not reading miranda WILL destroy your case sometimes, agreed, but the situation dictates that.

I agree with you. And while Miranda does not have to be read in all cases, it is good to do so as to not be the reason for losing any good case. I don't have any knowledge of most of the facts in the case so my assumptions are based on what I gleen from the limited statement of the OP

Officers only have to do Miranda when they are going to question a suspect AFTER one is arrested.

Real life is not like TV. Same thing with CSI- it isn't like that in the real world.

One would be best to read the US Constitution and their states Rules of Criminal Proceedure-which outlines how the arrest are done, the court process, one rights etc. Not TV.

Short version. A complaint is made to police by someone, Police arrive, stop the action-if need be, move onto the suspect-detain them/or arrest if apparent eveidience.

The cop then proceeds to process you in the system, you are taken to the local magistrate, he tells you what is going on, your rights and if there is enough prima facia evidence to hold you in jail or let you go on your own etc.

You get a court date, you show up, the cop presents his witnesses and evidence and then you get to tell your side of events and present testimony. decision made. (again, short/simplified version).

Nice and orderly. Usually the arrestee makes the matters worse by deviating from that. One doesn't have the right to refuse to be arrested-thus mucking up the process. Just the way it it.

reply to post by Helig


True, but I must say I would be very agitated if someone walked up to me and tried to cuff me without telling me why. An arrest in some cases stays on your record for a long time. Regardless of what you were charged for, or even if you weren't ever convicted.

An arrest of suspicion of rape looks very bad to a potential employer, even if it was a case of mistaken identity, i.e. you looked like the perp and happened to be in the area. Something like that could ruin your life. I know that is a radically different scenario but my point being its human nature to grow defensive when confronted with jail, especially if you know you're innocent.

If I was waiting for a bus, on my way to work, something similar happened to me, well maybe I wouldnt fight back physically, but I damn sure would be making sure there were witnesses to see me being wrongfully arrested. If I lost my job over it for failing to show up I would surely sue. I'd hope that if this happened to me in a public place people would at least come to my assistance and ask the police what was going on.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by WhiteDevil013]

Originally posted by GovtFlu

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
Here is what I know. Cops DO NOT have to inform you why they are putting cuffs on you. Cops usually must have witnessed a misdemeanor crime occur in their presence in order to charge you with that misdemeanor. When the cops started questioning you in cuffs you had not yet been arrested, you were detained. However, cops detaining someone for a misdemeanor crime which did not occur in their presence is wrong.

In essence, I would say your charges will be dropped by the DA. Talk with your attorney as you will be given one if you cannot afford it. You might consider filing a complaint. As to a lawsuit, that is up to you.

A cop DOES have to inform you that you are under arrest. Otherwise, it is assault and kidnapping.

No they don't, and no it's not. The charges are on your copy of the booking sheet upon arrest.. that's your advisal.

This is why people must ASK to ascertain their status, which the officers must answer but don't have to volunteer ... "am I being detained? or free to leave?" and "am I suspected of a crime?". After that you are well within your rights to tell the officers "I don't want to speak with you"... they might try to convince you of otherwise.

captaintyinknots..
As far as detaining a misdemeanor suspect, the police are well within their authority to do so regardless.

If some dude 5 feet away lifts your $150 cell phone off the counter and beats feet (misdemeanor petty theft), and you later point him out to near by cops who didn't see what happened.. the police can absolutely detain that suspect.

Apparently this clerk did something similar, reported a possible misdemeanor which the officers acted on.

Once detained, cell phone recovered, the police will give you the option of citizens arrest (837PC in Cali), OR they can arrest the suspect for something like 496PC - possession of stolen property.. which did occur in the officers presence... based on your statement they can add a charge of petty theft.

1)Wrong. They dont have to tell you the charges, but they absolutely DO have to tell you if you are under arrest, which is what i said(i think it was taken out of context to mean that charges must be disclosed-which wasnt what I was saying). If you are not, you do not have to reply.

And officer has no right to put his hands on an innocent civilian.

2)I believe there is a limitation on detaining a suspect without charges. I could be wrong.

Also, charging someone in that instance with stolen property is still charging them, which then makes it legal to detain.

3)If officers can detain and arrest based on on persons statement, then that is a gross injustice and something that needs to be addressed.

Ok so a couple of things for you guys.

I got a letter from my attorney today, apparently I have two counts of obstruction. There was no mention of a court date.

Also I still have not received my subpoena from Chatham county.

The last tid bit of information is that I do not live in GA, so if I get my subpoena and do not have enough time to make it back down to Savannah then I'm not to worried about it.

One more thing............... I WAS NOT DRUNK..... don't know how many times I have to say that.

hlesterjerome I am sorry about your son. I assure you I never fought the cops I just fought against them putting me in cuffs. I was hit in the leg with a baton before being told to comply. Also I am not a spoiled brat, I haven't lived with my parents since I was 16. This case did bring us closer though.

Here is my advice to you:
1) Write down everything you can remember, include times and places. Get a copy of the arrest paperwork that was done.
2) Get a lawyer, talk to him, to include giving him a copy of what all you had written down.
3) Go to court and launch a counter suit, against the police department, demanding that the arresting officer be terminated for police brutality, the more of a shadow you can give on the police the better. Also demand this to be taken before a jury, not just a judge.
I would also look into sueing the convience store as well.
I am curious did they read the miranda rights to you? If not, good chance the judge will toss it out of court.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by sdcigarpig]

reply to post by sdcigarpig


no i was never read my Miranda rights but from what some people are saying they didn't have to.

Its just one of those things I am going to have to find out.

Well, I wish you the best of luck, seriously. I do hope you've learned a hard lesson from this though; having a major argument with a clerk about the price of cigs to the point he asks you to leave, and then going "mental" when the cops try to arrest you to the point of getting charged (twice?) for that too. You clearly have anger issues, right? I've no doubt you're a good guy, but don't let that side of you get you into trouble again. They have good (legal) drugs to help with that you know Hope it all works out, anyway

reply to post by Curio


yeah anger issues runs in my family I guess. I have been keeping it in check with cannabis, didn't smoke that day. Guess I need to take the world as it happens. Thanks for all the help yall

The only thing I can see that you did wrong was that you dared to question them. God complexes are extremely sensitive dispositions that always require escalation and violence in order to appease once tampered with.

I had something very similar happen to me in Arlington Texas back in 1985. I posted the experience here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I haven't read anything in this thread besides what you posted but I can give you some warning as how things will tend to go here to some extent.

Be prepared for some of the Cop members and Cop wannabes to accuse you of exaggerating or making the whole story up in order to make them look bad. In other words be prepared to be accused of lying, as insulting as that may be.

Sadly, people like you, me, and many others are only common casualties of a growing police state whose sole intent is not protection, but fear and subservience to a well established system of control.

You will probably get some advice from some of the more down to earth members here on how to counter sue their gorilla ass's once you've cleared your name.

You see, at first the Cops figure that if they can put you enough on the defensive then you'll be content with just trying to avoid more jail time. This tactic works all the time and it worked with me back when I was a teenager.. In fact, I was so traumatized that they didn't even have to threaten more legal actions. They let me out scott free in the morning after but this is explained in the link that I provided. I just took my dazed self home and tried to forget about it. But not now as I'm not a scared little kid anymore. If the same situation were to repeat itself today then they'd actually be doing my financial status a huge favor once everything was said and done.

Just remember, while your fighting this the cops can sit back and smirk while the prosecuting attorney does free services for them. But once you prove their charges poppy cock, you can put them on the defensive then their fun and games are over. Cops can and are suspended/fired regularly for gross negligence upon citizens and especially when those citizens fight them back in a court of law.

You will need your friend's testimony and any other witnesses who you can still find. Odds are there were surveillance cameras that caught most of this at the convenience store but I doubt the cashier will be cooperative so I'd make every attempt to covertly contact the owner of the store who has less of an emotional stake in the issue at hand. If this happened in the frontal area of their police car than odds are this is on video tape there as well.

For the reasons of counter evidence many people are carrying cam-corders with them today. The UK has caught on to this and become threatened by it and has therefore illegalized filming cops in action to the best of my knowledge but not yet here in the USA. Protect yourself in the future with them as many other Americans are doing now. A cell phone with a cam-corder can help too.

A well respected friend of mine once told me how to behave around cops these days and it went like this; "Let them tell you to put your face in the dirt. Do it, but hold them accountable for it once you can get them out of their control environment". As we all know, when they first show up, most all of the cards are stacked in their favor when it comes to being downright nasty with people. They know this and most of them get off on it. But it does not have to continue if we start making them accountable to their strong armed tactics more and more.

If you do indeed plan to hold them responsible for their actions then you'll need to act quickly before a lot of time elapses. As in gather your counter and defensive evidence. Don't forget that they do this to people every day and are busy covering their behinds and putting yours in jeopardy while we speak so don't waste any energy or time at this point. Don't procrastinate. They aren't procrastinating on their end most likely.

Of course, they could have shown up and inquired as to what happened and at worse told you to stay off the property. This would have quickly diffused the situation.. But no, they figured it was time to show the boy his place in comparison to theirs. Hence the Gestapo rough up treatment tactics.


You can turn the tables on those goons as contrary to how many of them conceive of themselves these days, they are NOT GOD!








[edit on 20-3-2010 by 3DPrisoner]

reply to post by 3DPrisoner


Wow I read your story and it pains me to see that not much has changed since then.

You know the funny thing about my case that I just found out about. The officer who initially was trying to arrest me and ended up hitting me with the baton was not put as my arresting officer. I will definitely bring this up in court.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


weird. i have never heard about that about misdemeanor arrests before. what states are you talking about? i'm a police officer in new york state and we can arrest a person for misdemeanors that have not happened in our presence. of course when we do this though, we make sure to get written statements by witnesses& victims or something along the lines of cctv video (if in a place with cameras, like walmart) to back up the arrest. for example, shoplifting a cd at walmart is petit larceny, which is also a misdemeanor. there aren't any officers assigned to work at the walmart as security, so obviously we are making an arrest for something that we did not witness ourselves. we make the arrest based on statements given by teh loss control guy, any other employees who witnessed the person stealing, footage from the security camera and statements made by the suspect.

we cannot make arrests for violations that did not occur in our presence, however. if a violation doesn't occur in the officer's presence, an accusatory instrument and witness& victim statements must be given to the local judge to apply for an arrest warrant. upon getting an arrest warrant issued from the judge, the officer then locates the suspect and serves the paperwork. no need to take the person into custody. it basically is a piece of paper that tells the person what they are being charged with and when to appear in court. from my experience, most of the violations that end up as arrest warrants are for harassment 2nd. that pretty much means you either verbally abused a person or hit them, but did not cause enough injury for it to constitute as an assault (misdemeanor or felony).

so basically, we can make arrests for any crime whether it occurs in our presence or not. violations are not considered crimes...only violations or in the case of vehicle and traffic law, infractions.

reply to post by Pajjikor


miranda rights are read when you are detained or arrested and the police are going to be questioning you. police don't always question you, especially if it is a situation where they witnessed the offense themselves.



[edit on 21-3-2010 by thejocie]

A similar thing happened to me when i was on a trip with my buddys to new york. I was walking down the street and these two young looking cops called me a faggot thinking they were all slick so i confronted them about it and they started hitting me with there batons and put me in restraints and loaded me into the back of there cruiser. I never got read my miranda rights or told what i was being charged with. Lucky enough my friend had taken his cellphone out and taped them doing this injustice. So i got a nice settlement check aswell as the two officers facing assault charges. Dont let police officers push you around. There just the fat kids everyone made fun of back in elementary school when they couldnt climb the rope. Goodluck i hope all is going well for you

I too think some minor & major parts have been left out of your story. A teenager with admitted anger issues, who also admits to using pot, who also admits to fighting the cops during the incident. What more have you left out?

The best way to handle police officers is to not give them a reason to need to deal with you. If the situation arises, treat them like people.

Funny how most people are able to navigate life without these type things happening, yet others seem to have them happen repeatedly. Every wonder why?

reply to post by Jake the Dog Man


I put down I have anger issues to get people off my back about me making up parts of my story. The anger issue is made up. I believed it would help with the constant bashing of my story, I'm tired of people thinking I posted my story for S & F's. Its my story of what happened to me.

If you can't accept my story for what it is then keep your ill advised comments to yourself. If not I'm done with this website and its negativity. After all this website is about denying ignorance. Yet you are ignorant to the fact that the world we live on is cruel. I'm gonna laugh when you post a personal story and no one believes you. It is very frustrating and I just want it to stop. For that reason this is the last time I look at this thread.

edited to make myself feel better

good day sir

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Pajjikor]

... OK, so more people then not called you on inconsistencies, you have admitted you lied, yet you are angry at the people on this site for not believing you? Too bad you won’t be back because I’d love to hear your reasoning of that.

I really do wish you the best of luck in your long uphill journey called life.