My personal experience with cops

Originally posted by Fromabove
When subdued, the officer or an officer must then read that person their Miranda rights. Failure of the officer to do so will result in all charges being dropped and the person walking free. This is why the OP was released without question.

You better check up on procedure. We DO NOT have to read miranda when arresting you for a crime. I'll let you research and actually find out when we must...but this definitly isn't it.

reply to post by Pajjikor


Yeah a bunch of cops do feel that their badge makes them above the law and if they take you for someone who doesn't know their rights they will try to use it to their advantage and in some cases take it even further for their own pleasure.

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by Fromabove
When subdued, the officer or an officer must then read that person their Miranda rights. Failure of the officer to do so will result in all charges being dropped and the person walking free. This is why the OP was released without question.

You better check up on procedure. We DO NOT have to read miranda when arresting you for a crime. I'll let you research and actually find out when we must...but this definitly isn't it.

That would be a "first hand" event where the cop has seen or has reason to believe a crime has been committed. But if a cop intends to question you on suspicion of a crime and wants to question you while under arrest, he must read you your rights, or whatever you say will be tossed in court.

In the OP case, he was detained, not charged even thought he was arrested for various reasons such as resisting and being combative. The Prosecutor would have let him go because it would have ended up looking like a police abuse case. Since the OP wasn't talking or admitting anything, they had no case against him.

However, in general, the police will read the rights to ensure a proper arrest. It makes it very hard to win a case if they don't. technically, they don't have to in some cases where they are witness to a crime, but they're foolish if they don't.






[edit on 18-3-2010 by Fromabove]

Originally posted by Fromabove
That would be a "first hand" event where the cop has seen or has reason to believe a crime has been committed. But if a cop intends to question you on suspicion of a crime and wants to question you while under arrest, he must read you your rights, or whatever you say will be tossed in court.

Much better....the way you presented it in your first post was misleading and would cause some to think the TV way where Miranda is read ALL the time. I just wanted you to clarify so I knew you understood....you do...

[edit on 3/18/2010 by rcwj1975]

www.expertlaw.com...

When Will The Police Read Me My Miranda Rights?

The police must advise suspects of their "Miranda Rights" - their right to remain silent, their right to an attorney, and the right to an appointed attorney if they are unable to afford counsel - prior to conducting a custodial interrogation. If a suspect is not in police custody (i.e., "under arrest"), the police do not have to warn him of his rights.

The police are very aware of when they have to read suspects their "Miranda Rights." The police will frequently question a suspect, specifically telling the suspect, "You are not under arrest, and are free to go. However, we would like you to answer some questions." After the suspect voluntarily answers questions, and sometimes if he refuses, he is arrested. The questioning, being voluntary and non-custodial, is usually admissible. After arrest, the police may have no interest in further questioning, and thus may not ever read the suspect his "Miranda Rights."




Once they make the arrest and intend to ask questions, they have to be read.

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by Fromabove
When subdued, the officer or an officer must then read that person their Miranda rights. Failure of the officer to do so will result in all charges being dropped and the person walking free. This is why the OP was released without question.

You better check up on procedure. We DO NOT have to read miranda when arresting you for a crime. I'll let you research and actually find out when we must...but this definitly isn't it.

This. I may or may not be correct here, but I believe it is when they question you that they must mirandize you.


From the sound of it, it seems like this is what happened. Not to be stereotypical, but you likely have some Indian or Middle-eastern guy who doesn't know English very well who got seemingly berated by an individual over the price of cigarettes. He likely thought you were intoxicated, and either made a quick call to the police or knew one was near by, went to them, told them you were intoxicated, and they attempted to detain you for public intoxication.

They were in no way in the right to do many of the things they did and the charges they filed but in the defense of the officer, he likely thought or was at least capable of making it seem like you were being disorderly when you were trying to fight back and acting hostile.


Lets get one thing straight and I don't care how many cops want to say otherwise, a majority of cops will break procedure where they can get by and will often times take a # on your rights.

The best thing to do with cops is to be polite, but assertive. Make it plenty apparent you know the law but do so in a manner in which won't provoke hostilities in the officer. You need to remember that even the dirt bag cops in the end are just overworked, underpaid individuals who ARE placed in harms way merely by their occupation and even the dirtiest piece of # will give you the slide if you show respect and be polite while knowing your rights. Often times if they continue to miss with you they're either very stupid, or the entire system in their area is so corrupt they know they can get by it.

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by Fromabove
You better check up on procedure. We DO NOT have to read miranda when arresting you for a crime. I'll let you research and actually find out when we must...but this definitly isn't it.

Much better....the way you presented it in your first post was misleading and would cause some to think the TV way where Miranda is read ALL the time. I just wanted you to clarify so I knew you understood....you do...


From Fromabove in reply: (don't know why it didn't quote)

After my experience, I went to law school so that would never happen again. Sometimes I may seem to interpret it a certain way, but working in defense, you have to look for chinks in the armor and hammer away till it breaks and Miranda is where you usually start. if you can convince a Prosecutor how hard it will be, or a jury that it paints the cop as a vigilante, the charges are usually dropped or defeated.




[edit on 18-3-2010 by Fromabove]

An officer is NOT obligated to tell you why you are being detained at the time he is cuffing you, because he may not have all the facts from both sides yet. He might have to review tape footage from the store and take the tapes as evidence, etc…

Here is where you screwed yourself royally:

Originally posted by Pajjikor
i freaked out and asked him what I was being charged with and fought back.

NOW, he has an arrestable offense, you resisted…

This is the kind of crap that happens when you think you know the law or your rights from reading conspiracy websites. You were in the wrong to resist, but thought you had the right because you knew conspiracy law as opposed to REAL law.

BTW, the gas station people are within their rights to trespass you at any time for any reason, its their property. If you had not acted up with the officers, they would have probably told you to leave the area, not return, and let you go. Its always the best policy to cooperate with the police, because they have to right to make your life a living hell if you do not, and all it does it plays against you in court.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
You better check up on procedure. We DO NOT have to read miranda when arresting you for a crime. I'll let you research and actually find out when we must...but this definitly isn't it.

I am pretty sure that you only need to read Miranda if you are going to interrogate a subject who is under arrest beyond normal Terry Stop type stuff (ie. What’s your name, where are you going, etc). Might vary some from state to state, but I know that is how it is here.

Originally posted by defcon5
I am pretty sure that you only need to read Miranda if you are going to interrogate a subject who is under arrest beyond normal Terry Stop type stuff (ie. What’s your name, where are you going, etc). Might vary some from state to state, but I know that is how it is here.

Only need to read miranda when your going to question a person about a specific crime that they are believed to be involved in.

If you witness the offense, no need for miranda.

Once you start taking statements, didn't see the crime, but believe he/she is the suspect and you have enough PC...arrest them and then read it..

or

read it first, see if they will talk to you, and then decide if you have enough PC for the arrest.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
Only need to read miranda when your going to question a person about a specific crime that they are believed to be involved in.

If you witness the offense, no need for miranda.

Correct, that is why I said that the person must be under arrest first. You are allowed to ask certain questions of the subject that the scene, but when you start to do an interrogation to build a case the person must be read their Miranda Rights. If the person decides to start telling you things on their own, that is their own stupidity and you can let them ramble away. As a matter of fact, I have known officers who put a tape recorder in the back seat of their patrol car, then if they have two preps they put them in the car, and walk away. After about 10 or 15 minutes they reach in behind the preps head grab the recorder (which they did not know as behind them), and listen to it. You do not have the right to privacy in the back of a police car.

Originally posted by ThirdJohnAdams
So daddy's going to bail you out?
Hah your a joke, just like your claims of being surprised at resisting arrest. By your own words, you sounded like beligerent raving druggie/drunk from the very first interaction with the cop. No wonder you were treated the way you were.

No calm cooperation coming from you.

So you are, in effect, saying that you would bend over and take it if the cops busted you for standing around and minding you're own business? Its called profiling, you seem to subscribe to it by the assumptions you make about the OP.

I am a law enforcement officer, and I'd like to throw in my two cents...

A person must be read their Miranda rights when:

They are in custody.
They are being interrogated.

If I have probable cause to arrest a person, I will do so, and inform them of the reason why.

In general, I will NOT inform the person of their Miranda rights at that point. If I do not intend to interrogate them regarding the alleged offense in question, I never will. The person will be formally advised by a judge within 48 hours of arrest if they are unable to post bond, or at their initial appearance if they are able to bond. This advisement includes the formal reading of their charges and potential penalties if convicted, and also all of their rights in the matter, which encompass their rights under the Miranda ruling.

I also will not speak to them regarding the offense.

Anything they say to me regarding the offense is then considered a "spontaneous utterance" and is generally admissible in court.

A surprising number of people will comment on the matter in question with no solicitation on my part, and in doing so, solidify the case against them.

As for the OP, I wasn't there and therefore can't comment on the specifics, but I would throw out there the thought that a significant unknown factor in this instance is what information the officers had prior to approach. I'd like to throw out an anecdote of my own as an example.

0330, domestic disturbance call. Male party calls 911 to report that his wife is chasing him around the house trying to stab him with a fork. My partner and I arrive and approach the house. I do have my weapon out as a matter of safety. My partner approaches and begins to speak with the male caller, the theoretical victim at this point.

I observe a female party exit the house and begin to approach me. It is dark, but I am able to observe that she has something in her right hand. I cannot identify the object. I identify myself as a law enforcement officer, and ask her to stop and drop whatever is in her hand. She continues to approach me. I repeat my command, and she still continues to approach me with this unknown object in her hand. I point my weapon at her and order her to drop the object immediately and lay on the ground, informing her that she will be shot if she does not comply. She does comply at that time. I secure her in handcuffs and inspect the object, which turns out to be a piece of paper.

At the end of our investigation, we haul the husband off to jail for DV assault, he had been beating his wife and tried to cover it up by calling us.

The point being, at the end of the day, I pointed a firearm (and came close to discharging it) at an innocent victim of spousal abuse. She was quite upset about it at first, until my partner and I took the time to explain to her why things had been done the way they had been.

I could easily see her coming on here and posting something along the lines of how she was beaten by her husband, and then when the cops showed up, they pointed guns at her and screamed at her, and she almost got shot.

But I believe that there was no other way to handle that particular situation given the information we had going in, and I have and will address similar situations in a similar fashion.

I function best in my job when people are polite and cooperative. I am then able to best understand the situation and take appropriate action.

reply to post by JB527


couple of questions.

Did I have the right to ask what I was being accused of. And did the police officer have to tell me when I asked him?

Also seeing as how no one posted bail, and I was never put in front of a judge. What does that mean?



[edit on 18-3-2010 by Pajjikor]

I posted my story for feed back. Thanks for all the answers, great advice. And sorry to the ones with similar stories.

I know I overreacted, but I always thought that the first time I would be put in hand cuffs I would deserve it. SO yes I overreacted. Love the negativity I got for it. If it happens again I hope I act different but knowing how I am when I am being accused of something when I am innocent, I will not.

Second F all of you who spoke negatively about me. I am a good person, get along with everyone, volunteer sometimes, and only smoke weed. But me doing drugs is not why I reacted the way I did. I was scared and threatened, especially after I got hit by a baton.

reply to post by Pajjikor


Here, this answer your question for you?

Dec. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Police officers don't have to give a reason at the time they arrest someone, the U.S. Supreme Court said in a ruling that shields officers from false-arrest lawsuits.

Kind of like I said up above.

In fairness however, cops do know how to hedge people into doing something to allow them to arrest you. That is another reason why you should not resist or be rude to them. You cannot win with them, they know the laws that they deal with inside and out 10,000 times better then you know them, and they are not always required to play fair. One police officer I know has told me time and again that a police officer is the most powerful person in this country as they can take away any citizens rights based solely on their suspicions, and not be held accountable for it if their suspicions were wrong. You really need to avoid listening to conspiracy lawyers on sites like this that specialize in letting you know your constitutional rights, because there are laws that supercede your constitutional rights, and yet are upheld by superior courts as being in compliance with the constitution.

Originally posted by Pajjikor
Also seeing as how no one posted bail, and I was never put in front of a judge. What does that mean?

It could mean that the prosecutors office looked at your case, decided it was either too weak or not worth the cost of prosecuting it. It could mean that the gas station dropped its charges against you (though the resisting arrest should still stand ). There could have been a procedural issue, something was not done right, etc. There could be several reason why it was dropped. You can take up rcwj1975 on his offer if you want to find out the reasons, or attempt to get the records yourself. It should be a matter of public record, and there is a way to get your hands on the paperwork.

What did they tell you when they let you go? Are you supposed to return on your on recognizance to see a judge later? Look at any paperwork that they gave you when they let you go, make sure there is not a court date listed on there that you might miss and end up with a bench warrant out for you.

"Dec. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Police officers don't have to give a reason at the time they arrest someone, the U.S. Supreme Court said in a ruling that shields officers from false-arrest lawsuits."

This is your highest court in the land saying, 'just arrest as many people as you can and we'll work out the details later.' How nice. Yet another example of the Justice Department supporting law enforcement at the direct expense of people's rights.

"In fairness however, cops do know how to hedge people into doing something to allow them to arrest you."

And if that doesn't work, they can lie, plant evidence or do any number of other things to frame you. Bottom line: if a cop has a hard on for you, you're going down, regardless if you broke the law.

reply to post by defcon5


i already did take rcwj1975 up on his offer as soon as he posted it. Ill post his reply on the situation when I get it

also as i told rcwj1975 in my U2U. The only paper I received was a paper with my belongings on it, as well as a paper that said how much money I had on me, which I turned in to get my money back.

well there we go you proved my point. I use to have the right to ask what I was being accused of. It is not a conspiracy thing, it use to be a right. So much for our rights.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Pajjikor]

I sent you a U2U and got the info from down in Savannah...I also found out why you were released without having to pay bond and once I heard your charges, I know why you didn't have to see a magistrate that night...you will though.

I will let you share what I was told as compared to your side of the story.