The Hungarian mystery

reply to post by SpookyVince

Hungarian (magyar nyelv listen (help·info)) is a Uralic language in the Ugric language group, distantly related to Finnish, Estonian and a number of other minority languages spoken in the Baltic states and northern European Russia eastward into central Siberia. Finno-Ugric languages are not related to the Indo-European languages that dominate Europe but have acquired loan words from them.

en.wikipedia.org...

Just to clarify something, the Bosnian Pyramid is a hoax. The Archaeological Park: Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun Foundation is run by this guy Semir Osmanagićm, who lives in Texas. All the experts he claims are working with him - deny it. And the things he claims that they've said they deny saying, and in fact, say pretty much the opposite.

The 'ancient inscriptions' weren't there a few years ago. There are archaelogical sites around there, but dating to medieval times and so on, nothing so old as what they are claiming. There's some worry about having all these amateur teams destroying, or not recovering properly, what really IS there.

www.britarch.ac.uk...

reply to post by Havick007


Hello
I'm Hungarian and I grow up in Budapest! At school they told us we are from the Finnish finugor family!
I hear them talking and I don't see, hear any similar sound or when u check grammar...
So I don't think so!
I learned the old ( rovàsíràs) Hungarian language at special class! And I heard they found those letters in the Bosnian piramid!
+ what ever the Anunnaki group spoke is the closest to Hungarian!
Hmmmm
I love my language! I don't sleep english well but even I will I don't think I can tell, explain feelings as well as in Hungarian!

Nikoletta

This is a very interesting thread. My dad's family was Hungarian. The surname is Komoromi, which I learned from my geneaology research, was a misspelling probably occurring when my ancestors entered the U.S. The original spelling is Komaromi.

The story handed down to us is that my family were gypsies. We all have dark hair and eyes and short, stout stature. Most members of the family are musically gifted.

I've often wondered about where we came from. I think I'll start some more research.

Well, I am 1/2 Hungarian. And I can say that a lot of my relatives on my Hungarian side have exotic eyes. My nephews face looks at least 1/2 oriental. Even though he is very tall, blue eyed and blond. I have other blond haired, blue eyed, oriental looking relatives also. Although most of my relatives have brown hair and blue or brown eyes. I just find it interesting that the blonds with blue eyes look the most oriental. So I guess this is another interesting aspect of some Hungarian linages. I feel perhaps the oriental roots are related to the Mongol invasion vs from where the language originated from.

reply to post by Komaratzi11


Yes they miss spell it! Original is Komàromi!
Komàrom is a very pretty city in Hungary!
But I noticed something! My opinion!
If your native language is Hungarian , so hard to learn any other bc all sooooo different!
No grammar like ours....
Nikoletta

Hungarian language in agglutanative.
Like many other languages.
Traditional Hungarian runic writing in not unique, similar alphabets were used by a number of other people, including the Duna people.
Hungarian also has strong turkish roots, but it is unlikely they are related, but ir is very likely Hungarian tribes spent many years, perhaps thousands side by side Turkic tribes.
It is a very beautiful language.
What makes it unique is the thinking as exemplified by words, and inherent cosmonology. It is at the very same time, a very rational and spiritual language.
Also of note is the highly sexual nature of Hungarian folk art, tradition, dances and music.
Very unique.
One of the unique branches of human languages.

Originally posted by zero_snaz
Hugarian belongs to the Finno-Ugrian language family...that branch of the tree speciffically goes.

This is proper lie!!! It has been made up by the Habsburgs who has been altered out history books after the established Austrian-Hungarian Monarchy. If you want to subdue a nation, reform their history on your own taste!

Here you can find a lot of publications about us in English! Do your own research
Magyar nation in English

organic magyar linguistics

I have read a lot of great ideas and many radiculous theories. The fact is, so far the evedence found, Arpads father was a Scythian king. Arpad of course is the founding father of the Magyars. Now, all we have to do is study the origin of the Scythians, simple enough. So, when we look at the Magyar-Hun Rovas, or runic writing, and language, we have to remember the Sumerian history of God seperating people by their tongues from Babylon. It's not religion, it's historical. The ultra terrestrials, angles, annunaki, what ever you call them had their part. To ignore this fact, will only lead you in circles. The interesting thing is that there is only a few other nationalities that came from the Scythians. In a way they are brothers to the Huns. They developed completely different languages of course, but still there is an ancient relation. Chinese has no relation, but the farmers mummies in China shows evedence that tall blonde or red haired blue eyed people lived there before the Chinese. Thats another story. So, in conclusion, the Hun blood line with a few others goes back to Annunaki, the Hun language only goes back to Babylon were every ones language goes back to the farthest. Sumerian Cuneiform is a language that no one speaks or writes since Babel. Search the Nam-Shub of Enki, it will explain the end of Cuneiform and the beginning of the worlds seperate tongues. It is two things: it is a story of linguistic disintegration, and it is an incantation which supposedly causes linguistic disintegration. To hear the tale is to lose the power of understanding speech. It tells of Enki, who "changed the speech" of the population to "put contention into it." This, of course, is similar in content to the Babel legend, where God disrupted the linguistic unity of the people in order to stop the Tower from being built. Nam-Shub, BTW is were the Huns get Nem Subod. My spelling is most definetly wrong, but, in Hungarian, nem subod means, not allowed or not supposed to. So, the Nam-Shub means Not Allowed, to speak the Sumerian language anymore. That's my $0.02

reply to post by SpookyVince


I am Hungarian and I think that we are Huns


The Hungarians
It is also true that the Hungarians of today look European.But their
roots are Mongolic.

From Britannica Languages of the world)
"Racially the Uralic people present an unhomogeneous picture.In
general
they may be considered
a bland of Europeans and Mongoloid types,with the more western
groups(especially the Hungarians,Baltic-Finnic and Erzya Mardvin
groups)
being strongly European and those of the Urals primarily Mongoloid".
From " De Administrado Imperio"by Constantine Porphyrogenitus
(Byzantine
Emperor,950AD)
"These eight clans of the TURKS(Hungarians) do not obey their own
particular princes...,They
have for their first chief the prince who comes by succession of
Arpad's
family..."
From The Hungarian Chronicle(1095AD):
"We (Hungarians) are descendants of the great Huns of Attila".
From "The Mongols" By Jeremiah Curtin
"Five groups of Mongols have made themselves famous in Europe:The
Huns
with their mighty chief Attila,the Magyars,The Turks or Osmanli,the
Mongol
invaders of Russia..."
From "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" By Edward Gibbon.
"The(Hungarians) are distinguished by the Greeks under the proper and
peculiar name of Turks,
as descendants of that people who had conquered and reigned form China
to
the Volga (referring to the Mongols)".
Gaspar Heltai (1575)
"The huns, who we call now Magyars, when they lived in Scythia they were all hunters" At 373 they started to fled from Scythia and arrived to Pannonia where they settled near the river Tisza"
The most interesting source about the Hunnic descendance of the Magyars is Mahmud Tercüman's codex. He wrote it to the turkish sultan Suleiman the first at 1543 AD.
Tercüman gave us a very detailed history how the Huns became Magyars, how they invaded europe and how they settled to Pannonia later on in a second wave. He gave us direct continuity between Attila and later kings of Hungary, who he consider as one royal dinasty, and its exactly what the older codexes wrote about.
From "The Cambridge Medieval History" edited by J.H.Hussey.
"The form ovyypoi,from which are derived the various names current to
this
day among the people of Europe(Old Church Slavonic,UGRI;
Russian,VENGRI;German,UNGARN;English,HUNGARIANS;French,HONGROIS;Italian,UN
GHERESI,and so on)comes from the Turkic ethnic name ONOGUR meaning
TEN
OGUR"
From "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler.
"We also hear of a fearful encounter which St.Cyril,the Apostle of
the
Slav,had with a Magyar horde in 860,on his way to Khazaria.He was
saying
his prayers when they rushed at him luporum more ululantes-HOWLING IN
THE
MANNER OF WOLVES".
From "Britannica"(Languages of the world).
"Recent study indicates that it is posible to speak of a Uralic
racial
type,an intermediate stage between the European and the Mongoloid,the
basic features of which are medium-dark to dark hair and eye
colour,relatively small stature and often a concave bridge of the
nose".
(Hungary is part of Uralic racial type).
From "Britanica" Hungarian.
"The proto-Hungarians were apparently an ethnic blend of
Ugric(Mongoloid)
and Turkish peoples living in western Siberia...The Hungarians were
the
scourge of Europe,raiding as far afield as Bremen,Orleans and
Constantinople(the English word OGRE-a men eating man,hideous cruel
man,is
a corruption of HUNGAR,attests to their notoriety).
From "1000 years of Hungary" By Emil Lengyel.
"(Hungarian) Folklore speaks about NIMROD the giant,who had two
sons,HUNOR
and HAGAR.The former was the ancestor of the HUNS,and MAGOR was the
ancestor of the MAGYARS."
"The experience the Magyars left with the Western world was so
traumatic
that even generations later people form the West saw the Hungarians
as
apocalyptic monsters. Bishop Otto of Freysing spoke of the exterior of
the
Hungarians as ‘ferocious' at the time of the Crusades Their eyes
are
sunken,their stature is short,their behavior wild,their language
barbarous,so that one can either accuse fate or marvel at divine
patience
for having permitted these monsters the possession of an enchanting
land)".
From "History of Hungary" By Denis Sinor
"Though, geographically speaking, of European origin, the Hungarians
who
settled in the Danube valley were,spiritually and materially,
Asiatics,
and belonged to the great Central Euroasiatic cultural family whose
members lived dispersed form the Danube to China, from Persia and
India to
the Arctic. The Hungarian bows and arrows...were of exactly the same
type
as those used in Central Asia. As nomadic peoples generally do, the
Hungarians disliked towns,and even houses,to which they preferred
tents.
According to Otto von Freisingen, as late as the middle of the
twelfth
century, summer and autumn were still spent under tents".
"It is, however quite certain that the Mongoloid type was well
represented
among them (Hungarians), and that they were, on the whole, of rather
short
stature, with short legs, bowed through continuous riding".
From George Kedrenos (12th century).
(Describing the events which took place in 895).
"The Emperor had sent the Patrician Skllerous to the Turks WHO were
CALLED
Hungarians
(Oungroi) to convince them to cross the Danube and attack the
Bulgarians..."
(At this time the Hungarians used to live somewhere near Bug river,in
a
place called Etel-Kuzu).
From John Zonnaras (12th century).
(Describing the events of 895).
"The Emperor convinced the Turks who lived near Danube and who ARE
CALLED
Hungarians
(Oungroi) to start war against the Bulgars".

I posted this elsewhere first then saw this thread, thought it may be appropriate and so posting here as well...

I was born in Budapest, but was smuggled out as an infant. I am currently a U.S. citizen, working as a Geography professor (Cultural, World Regional, and GIS).

Although this thread is fascinating, and I am unable to academically validate or refute much that has been presented here without a substantial amount of research I presently do not have time for, I can tell you this:

As a youngster growing up, I would often listen-in on my elders discussing the "old country", Magyar heritage, origins, and the global migration that have now spread Hungarians to every remote corner of the world.

It was frequently lamented that various conquerors and other circumstances of historical significance (being on the 'wrong-side of regional and global conflicts, the assassination and subsequent demise of the Austro-Hungarian empire, etc.) have resulted in a current distribution wholly unpredicted and unexpected. Significantly, various cultural and intellectual (mathematical, scientific, literary, etc.) resources were "preserved", purposefully, so that the purity of the ethnicity and anthropomorphic paradigm would be maintained even though the political and territorial "roots" were slowly being diluted.

On more than one occasion, I can recall an uncle, grandfather, or other elder relative say something to the effect that "...our Sumerian ancestors would be proud", or that "...we must continue the goals and ideals of the Mesopotamian ancients for eternity".

I always found such comments amusing and usually rolled my eyes, thinking these profound utterances were just the Palinka or Tokaji (liquor) talking. It was just entertaining to me to hear them speak like that. We used to do a lot of family camping with other Hungarian friends and relatives, and it seems these 'men-folk' would do a lot more of this chatter around a campfire late at night with a little brandy-fuel as lip-lubricant than they ever did in the confines of their homes. There was nothing I enjoyed more than lying awake in my tent listening to this talk through the canvas to the fire-ring a few feet away.

Anyway - not sure how much of this stuff was genuine and how much was 'old guys reminiscing' - but this thread sure brought some of those memories flooding back in.

P.S. thanks for all the links and opinions here (OP et al). If nothing else, they provide starting points to further information and analysis. I hope the truth about this intriguing origin story will eventually be known...

a reply to: Byrd

Byrd, sorry but you made some mistakes in your post. The Sumerians ARE NOT SEMITIC people. It's been determined that it's not Indo- European either; the Archeologists, Historians and Linguists shortly after it's discovery placed it in the Turanian group (modern name: Ural-Altaic group.) They almost unanimously agreed that of all those languages it's closest relative is ancient Hungarian. Several of those researchers actually spent time in Hungary to perfect their Hungarian language skills. Later a sort of "silent agreement" has developed that scolars would stop searching for related languages for various reasons.
The other important error: you stated that Hungarians had had no writing system or alphabet before adopting the Latin Alphabet. Actually, Hungarians were not illiterate; they used what was called "Rovás Írás", in English: Runic Writing. It is similar to the Old German writing in principal; however, the letters are different and specifically based on the Hungarian sound system. Every sound has its own letter so spelling is no challenge as opposed to Western Indo- European languages such as English. Several of the letters can be traced back to to Sumerian Cuneiform signs.
After adopting Western Catholicism Popes ordered the people of Hungary to stop using the pagan "Scythian" writing and burn or destroy everything with Runic Writing on it. However, many people kept using it, especially the Székely (Sakai) in Transylvania until the 20th Century. After the Communist Government and system collapsed it became fashionable again; with slight changes, mostly some simplification, many Hungarians attending schools to learn their ancestors' spiritual and cultural treasure.

a reply to: C.C.Benjamin

You are right that Byrd made some errors in his post, so I replied and pointed out the two most serious ones
1. Sumerians (or rather their language) were not Semitic and not Indo-European. Right after the discovery of the clay tablets with Cuneiform writing under the sand, of course initially they all thought a Semitic language and people were found: it is the Middle East for Pete's sake. It was soon determined that it was a unique languge, people and culture from thousands of years ago. Soon they placed the language in the Turanian group of languages, which is today called Ural-Altaic. Most researchers also agreed that its closets modern relative, also probably its descendant, is the ancient language of Hungarians. That had been the prevalent scholarly view for decades until they stopped researching descendant and/ or related modern languages of Sumerian.
2. The Magyars at the time of their conquest of the Carpathian Basin (Hungary) were not illiterate. The alphabet they used is called Runic Writing that's about as unique as their language that had been called both Scythian and Hunnic. However, after they had adopted Catholicism and dropped their old religion which was very likely a later version of the the VERY ancient Magi faith, the Vatican ordered to destroy anything and everything l with the "pagan, Scythian" writing on it. The different tribes of the tribal alliance may have practiced different versions of that religion. As at least 2 or 3 tribes of the alliance were Parthians and Subarians, it's probably a safe assumption that Manichaeism was prevalent among those tribes as Mani was Parthian born. Both the Magyars and Parthians, or at least a good portion of them, had had very ancient ties to Media. Before Media, the region had been called Mada in Sumerian and originally they had used to speak the main Sumerian dialect Emeghir.

a reply to: stephan76

Jewish or Christian Hungarians? It doesn't really tells the whole story. It was an EXCELLENT education system and a unique, challenging but pretty logical language that turned out those citizens of Hungary to go on and invent, discover and/ or produce things.
The team of Hungarian scientists working on the Manhattan project really was the target of envy and admiration. When somebody asked the lone (I think) Italian on the project, Enrico Fermi, if he believed in alien life- forms, Fermi replied: "they are already here... they are called Hungarians."
Also, I have read about this very interesting and telling little "story 0" years ago and just now searched for it online - but no luck. So I'm just going to describe it in non- specific terms.
I think it was Albert Einstein who was asked to explain the Hungarian team members' apparent talent, intelligence, knowledge and success. Einstein answered without much hesitation: *If you can learn Hungarian, you can learn anything.* I think he absolutely hit the nail on the head. Again, I may have made a mistake in the identity of the characters; and of did I apologize.
The book ",The Bell Curve" published over twenty years ago concludes that Jews generally have higher IQ than other populations, so that may be factor in the equation.

a reply to: Hanslune

"Being isolated... They do not talk to each other... Conviction that they alone are right..."
I could not have defined them better myself; it perfectly describes all but at least most Sumerologists today.
One of most renowned and respected Sumerologists expressed the growing frustration with not being able to get cooperation from many colleagues, seeing that many of them are clearly going in the wrong direction (I'd say some of them are doing this on purpose,) said this: "There are as many Sumerian languages as there are Sumerologists..." Which is, and has been, a humongous problem.
It should be pointed out that this field requires a great deal of talent, patience, never ending education, knowing several dead and also modern languages and a lot more. Very- very few people are suited for the job. There is not only academic but also political pressure for obvious reasons: many politicians, educational administrators and all kinds of others want the scholarly and educational equivalent of the old political "bringing home the bacon" for prestige, money and advancement. Related to, especially being a successor of, Sumerians would be the mother lode in many circles.
Where am I going with this? Well, since this is a forum debating the History of those ever more mysterious MAGYARS, many of us know that since the discovery of the Kiengi nation and their Emeghir language, it's been a constant frustration for HUNGARIANS, at least more than for any other nation. In the first few decades (almost) everything and everybody echoed admiration, respect, curiosity for the "closest relative" of the ancient Kiengi nation in ancient Mesopotamia.
But then the academic "Powers that be" dropped the praise for no apparent reason, other than "let's not indulge" and waste time with comparative studies; Sumerian will be a language isolate so we can concentrate on decoding it without the unnecessary noise. We can do a surgery on the Emeghir language, or since it's been dead for several Millennia, let's do autopsy and we'll never have to stop working on the patient. And those Magyars can wait as long as it takes. That's what they have been doing anyway since time immemorial. Ànd should we finish the autopsy by rushing and figuring out everything about the patient our job will be over and we'll be fired before we can say BOO!

a reply to: Byrd

Dude, it's not just your post is amazingly ignorant. But when you are corrected instead of checking it out and post a corrected version, your old post just sitting there and shining: IGNORANT!