The Hungarian mystery

Originally posted by Byrd
Niether actually "appeared mysteriously." Sumerians are a "Semetic people" and have been in the area for well over 7,000 years:
en.wikipedia.org...

Wikipedia begs to differ, I'm afraid:

en.wikipedia.org...

About the Korean being invented (I am Korean, so I know what I'm talking about) - that is in reference to the written, not the spoken, language. The current written form of Korean was designed by a panel of royally-appointed scholars in the mid-1400s. Prior to this, all Korean was actually written in Chinese (thus rendering a significant majority of the general population illiterate - changing this was the idea behind the invention of modern written Korean). In terms of writing, the Korean and Japanese languages are strongly (in the case of written Japanese inextricably, since Japanese is still written in Chinese characters with a few extra Japanese-specific characters thrown in) linked to written Chinese simply from the close proximity for an extended period of time. It is likely that a majority of Korean and Japanese words are actually "loan words" acquired from the Chinese and gradually modified to fit the local language.

However, when it comes to spoken Korean or Japanese, neither is anywhere close to Chinese (though sometimes the two sound similar to each other, but again this could just be because of long periods of proximity in history) except when pronouncing cognates (words that are shared between languages and sound similar between them - for instance, "burg" in German means "town" or "city" and it means the same thing in English, thus "burg" is a cognate - the cognates between Korean, Japanese, and Chinese are generally based on the local pronunciation of the Chinese characters on which the words are based).

No one has been able to agree thus far where to put Korean and Japanese, and so most researchers today simply consider them language isolates. The two are different enough from Hungarian and Finnish that a real link, if it exists, is obscured.

However, I remember watching one winter olympics when the Finnish team was doing curling, and I remember that a lot of what the Finnish team was saying to each other sounded remarkably like Japanese. But then this link - video.google.com... - makes me think twice about that association.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin

Originally posted by Byrd
Niether actually "appeared mysteriously." Sumerians are a "Semetic people" and have been in the area for well over 7,000 years:
en.wikipedia.org...

Wikipedia begs to differ, I'm afraid:

en.wikipedia.org...

Hell has frozen over, Byrd was wrong on one point.

Never seen this - better check out the Mayan Calendar. Is today the end of the world?

The first Sumerians were not Semites, but Byrd's date is right on target.

The subsequent Sumerians, Akkadians, they were Semitic.

Harte

I've heard it said that Hungarian is the hardest language in the world to learn, in no small part because it is different from a lot of languages. My great grandfather spoke Hungarian, as well as several other languages, and my aunt is trying to learn it now, and she speaks several languages, too, and she's having a lot of trouble picking it up.

Great another East European country claiming Nikola Tesla as their own. Nikola Tesla was of Serbian background born in Croatia. When he was asked what his nationality is he said Croatia simply because he was born there. Tesla isnt a Hungarian last name it is simply pronounced Teshla because the v on top of the S is a 'sh' sound.

www.geocities.com...

[edit on 31-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

i agree, tesla isnt hungarian? he is from serbia.
And i come from holland, i can also name lots of scientists and artists.

For example we made the birthcontroll pill

but it's true that hungarian language sounds very weird.

Originally posted by Toromos

Originally posted by devmim
The ancestors of the Hungarian can be tracked back to the ancient Hun and other peoples who once lived in the north of China. There are some evidences in China....

More exactly the people were conquered by the Huns, and adopted their language.

Except the chronology is out by several hundred years. The Huns turned up in Europe in the 4th century, moving in north of the Black sea. They were finished as a force by the mid 5th century, after the death of Attila and the subsequent in-fighting. After that a number of Germanic tribes made home in what we now call Hungary, including the Ostrogoths and the Lombards, I believe.

The Magyar people didn't turn up in Hungary until the late 9th century and the "hun" in Hungary has nothing to do with the Huns. We don't really know what language the Huns spoke - almost definitely several, though the language of the ruling class is thought to have been Turkic - they didn't write anything down though, so we will probably never know for sure.

[edit on 31/10/08 by FatherLukeDuke]

reply to post by Azrael


I hope your not going to judge every hungarian collectively based on one bastard hun....besides, this hungarian friend of yours must have done something to spark your interest..here you are.

reply to post by kinslayer


Sorry, but you're wrong. The Korean language has been around for well over five thousand years (and has gone through its own evolutions like any other language). What the scholars sat around and deliberately created was the writing system, Hangul, during the Chosun dynasty. The spoken language and written letters are two different things.

Hehe, funny to see this thread bumped again by (another...) anonymous reply which might not be shown at all...

Anyhow, indeed I was wrong from the start, Tesla is not hungarian. I don't know why I could be that mislead then, as I've studied things around and about him for a long time already.

However, I want to bring one precision on his name. The name "Tesla" is indeed pronounced "tesla" and not "teshla". The original spelling of his name in cyrillic is Никола Тесла, which is a "s" not a "sh".

I hope the cyrillic can appear correctly on the screen of readers.

My Grandfather came the United States from Hungry in the early 1900's when he was a young boy. I only saw him a couple dozen times growing up, so I don't know much about him. I know almost nothing of my roots there nor where my name came from.

Thanks for the thread - makes me want to look at where a quarter of my DNA comes from.

reply to post by verylowfrequency


As per the OP, you could..yeah..you could..have Alien Blood in you...(from the so called UFO that crash landed)....

reply to post by SpookyVince


hi, let me give you an interesting hungarian word:

kör : in english circle
körül : in english around
kor : in english age
korong : in english disc
körités : in english fence
kerités : same meaning

kert : in english court

körösztül : in english across

köröszt : in english cross or divide the circle

körösztény : in english christian or the person who divide the circle

I really don't know much on the topic of linguistics but i just want to add (since we're on the topic, kind of), it is pronounced Nikola Tesla, no 'sh' in there, i really have no idea where you got that from.

Nikola Tesla was born in the Austro-Hungarian empire, NOT Croatia, it is simply called Croatia now. Tesla always referred to himself as being Serbian and born in Smiljan. Although Tesla was born in the land that is now Croatia he can't be a Croat since his father was a Serbian Orthodox priest and his mother was the daughter of a Serbian Orthodox priest.

Originally posted by SpookyVince

Curiously a lot of big scientific minds came out of Hungary: Nikola Tesla, John von Neumann, Edward Teller, Theodore von K�rm�n... Lots of others.
.

I am part Hungarian. I just wanted to add that Tesla was from modern day Croatia not Hungry. I am fascinated with my heritage and wanted to trace my blood line back as far as I could. My last name is Ban (ruler of province or state). My father tells me we are of noble blood.

Very interesting...

While on an expedition in Ecuador János Móricz found several matches with the Hungarian (magyar) language and the language that the locals spoke. (Some scholars claim that Hungarian language is a mesolith language) In the caves the explorers found gold plates with carvings resembling to Hungarian runic scripts.
One to one similarities with Hungarian of geographical and family names in Ecuador are evidences: Quito (formerly sounds Kitus where Kit=két (two), Us=ös (ancestors) as Hunor-Magor in hungarian legends. Another example is Zuay province's ancient settlement, Pest.
Common family names are: Tanay, Damma, Taday, Mór, Momay, Mansy, Pil, Béla, Uray, Zillahi, etc.
still hungarian speaking tribes e.g. Cayapak and Salasaca (zala-szaka where szaka=scythian) use these common words: apa=apa (father), aya=anya (mother), nap=nap (sun), vin=vén (old), kit=két (two), us=ös (ancestor), cu=kö (stone), pi, bi=víz (water), fuel=folyó (river), pille=pille (butterfly), etc.

bbs.keyhole.com...

A very interesting discussion at the above link. The mystery of the Hungarian language deepens. Some scholars have linked it to a tribe in Ecuador! Don't know how solid the research is but worth looking into.
I personally love Hungary. Had a Hungarian girlfriend who was grrreeaat.
Budapest is a cool city. Parliament house on the Danube is one of the most beautiful buildings I've seen.... I nearly died twice in that city. Tried to drunk-swim across the Danube to impress some dumb girl. Got thirty metres then turned back. Same night I went round the outside of a twenty floor building to get into my friends room. One slip and I would have been dead.... Hungarian swearing is also the most creative and colourful on earth.

Anyway... I believe the hidden history of that small nation is well worth researching, so I'll try to bump this topic.

Some pseudo science raises it head

The mystery of the Hungarian language deepens. Some scholars have linked it to a tribe in Ecuador!

Hans: One guy and he obviously isn't a scholar he thinks the Hungarians came from the Andes. They came from Western Siberia where they have links with the Mansi and Khanty tribes and a more distant link to the Finns. There genetic links are the western Asia also.

Don't know how solid the research is but worth looking into.

Hans: Solid as putrid fish liver. He believes in the biblical deluge which puts his scientific knowledge down near zero.

Amusing but so wrong it makes my back teeth ache.




.

reply to post by Hanslune


Disagreement is fine, and welcome on ATS, but don't patronise people, and don't talk down to them either. I clearly said,

"Don't know how solid the research is but worth looking into."

You even quoted it. Ad hominem attacks are lame. Whatever the background of the researcher, and whatever his other beliefs, he has pointed out a significant number of words that are similar in both languages.

That's all. I was trying to throw something out there for people to have a look at. I can't stand know-it-all attitudes. The ache in your back teeth is from not brushing properly.



[edit on 20-2-2009 by HiAliens]

reply to post by HiAliens

Disagreement is fine, and welcome on ATS, but don't patronise people, and don't talk down to them either. I clearly said,

"Don't know how solid the research is but worth looking into."

Hans: Yes and I was criticial of the author of the material you posted, not yourself,. However you did fail to conduct even basic wikipedia research that would easily disprove the idea.

You even quoted it. Ad hominem attacks are lame. Whatever the background of the researcher, and whatever his other beliefs, he has pointed out a significant number of words that are similar in both languages.

Hans: He's pointed out complete garbage, comparing word lists doesn't link languages, that has been known since the 19th century. Plus we have outside confirmation of when the Magyars showed up in Hungary

In 895/896, probably under the leadership of Árpád, some Magyars crossed the Carpathians and entered the Carpathian Basin. The tribe called Magyars (Megyer) was the leading tribe of the Magyar alliance that conquered the center of the basin

Byzantine, Bavarian and Arab sources

That's all. I was trying to throw something out there for people to have a look at. I can't stand know-it-all attitudes.

Yes you threw it out there, it hit the ground, rolled a bit and didn't go anywhere. Some stuff isn't worthy of of consideration. No harshness directed at you but the material you presented.

reply to post by Hanslune


If you take Wikipedia as a benchmark of truth and objectivity I don't know what to say...
Again... it's your tone and manner. Debate is fine but there's a difference between spirited disagreement and outright arrogant snottiness.
Peace, good luck.