Why would a god allow so much pain and suffering?

reply to post by nomorecruelty


I am not here to debate religion. I will discuss, not debate. It is subjective, at best, and not worthy of debate given the impossibility of decisive outcome and tendency to infuse passionate emotion.

It is a good thing that you are sound in your faith. It should serve you well should you need support and inner guidance.

RE: my avatar:

Thank you. I need to touch it up, still. The ape is needing to be muted a little to blend with the background better. but life keeps me from such things lately. I like the purple tones more than the previous one i had with the more orange tones.

[edit on 20-3-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]

reply to post by SirPsychoSexy

Very interesting explanations, all three could be plausible as far as I'm concerned. Nr.2 is exactly how I picture the old testament god to be;not really mature, and with a bad temper.

Or how 'bout this which is completely Biblical. God says that HE WILL SAVE ALL.

Where does it say so in the bible?

reply to post by nomorecruelty


While I appreciate the respect, we do disagree on the Bible being without error, but I suppose it depends on what we are calling the Bible. You ascribe to the "Authorized King James Version" I take it. That translation is just that, a translation of the word that was originally in Hebrew, Greek, and sometimes Aramaic (depending on the time period the original documents were discovered). The documents discovered after the KJV was written have shown that there are better translations of the original text than what the KJV has.

It is a fact that Hades and Gehenna are both translated as Hell in many bible translations. Revelation 20:14 is an example where this mistranslation makes no sense, because some translations will read something like: "And death and Hell will be thrown into the lake of fire." The Greek actually says something along the lines of Hades (being the abode of the dead, often referred to as Sheol in the OT) being thrown into Gehenna (translated as Hell or the lake of fire in order to avoid confusion). Depending on whether or not you think there is a place we go before we make our way to our final destination also plays a part in whether or not this makes sense. Jesus said to the criminal on the cross that he would be with him in Paradise that day. Note he said Paradise and not Heaven. Later on when the Jesus appeared before Mary (John 20:16-18) he told her that he had not yet returned to the Father. He had not died, went to Heaven, and then came back down to earth. In fact, scripture speaks of Jesus descending down to the depths rather than up to God when he gave up his life for us. This temporary abode of the dead will be destroyed at the judgment because it will no longer serve a purpose. No person will ever die again and so this intermediate state (sheol, hades, paradise) will not be needed.

I would agree that there is no error in the original documents of God's recorded word, and that the message we have received from God in the scriptures is perfect, but our translations, each and every one of them, is bound to have some error. These errors are not cause enough for damnation of course. God doesn't require perfect doctrine to enter into the place He is preparing for us. He does require faith and obedience though. Some of the translations contradict each other in small ways. This is the result of our translations, not God's own word. I believe that God's word is without error, but I don't think God spoke the word in Old English.

Sorry for getting a little off track from the original post. Wanted to make my opinion on the matter known. I hope is was not seen as disrespectful.

[edit on 20-3-2010 by Mykahel]

reply to post by nomorecruelty


I just want to suggest that God does allow the delusion of man thinking they have been given all of the answers.

Without the delusions and confusion, there is no real purpose in seeking and sifting and discerning.

Its not about accepting a scripture....its about seeing Gods highest vision for us and making it so.

Its not about God giving us the answers here in plain site. Some things hold Earthly wisdom's, some things hold spiritual wisdom's. We have to determine which is which.

If you get right down to basics, there is "God" in every man/woman.

It is men & women bringing evil acts on men & women.

The "God" as being the supreme creator does not condone or disrupt what people do to eachother. That would be infringing on the free will of those people.

Peoples salvation is gained or lost by their free will choices associated with their day to day activities. It is still a wrong choice if no one sees what you do.

how would you ever know LOVE FUN HAPPINESS w/o HATE BOREDOM SADNESS!

You cant explain colors to a blind person can you? If there is a GOD then I think the human experience is him doing exactly that!

but where is the evidence of a god???

There is none. It's all a matter of faith, I guess.

Originally posted by jumpingbeanz
but where is the evidence of a god???

The evidence of God is existence.

Don't imagine God as a invisible man.

Have you ever made a thought about intelligence?

We humans are a specific combination of energies combined. Our combination of finite energy gives us the intelligence we have. But we humans can't have something that the infinite does not have. If we have intelligence than the infinite must have intelligence to.

God is just a name. God is a name given to a source "Infinite Energy".

A human is just a name. A name we have given to our selves. Our kind is made from specific finite combination of energy.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

A philosophy professor once put a similar question to our class and the answer seemed obvious to me. So I told him:

God exists.
God is all powerful.
God is evil.

Every question one can ever ask may be answered by those statements, except one.

By the way, I don't believe that at all, but it works.

DE

The need to answer the question for those who genuinely seeking IT..


No disaster strike except by permission of Allah (Our Lord)
And who ever believes in Allah (Lord) - He will guide his heart.
And Allah(Our Lord) is knowing of all things. [ Quran : 64:11]

And We will surelty taste you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient. [ Quran : 2:155]

Who, When disaster strikes them, say, " Indeed we belong to Allah (Our Lord) and indeed to him we will return" [Quran : 2:156]

Corruption has appeared throughout the land and sea by what the hands of the people have earned so he may let them taste of [the consequence of] what they have done that perphaps they will return [to righteousness] Quran : 30:41

And whatever misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned . And He pardons much. [ Quran : 42:30]

The Story of Job in the Bible is corrupted.

And [mention] Job, when he calls to his Lord, "Indeed adversity has touched me , and you are the Most Merciful of the Merciful". [ Quran: 21:83]
so We responded to him and removed what afflicted him of adversity. And We gave him [back] his family and the like thereof with them as mercy from Us and the reminder for the worpshippers[of Allah]. [Quran 21:83]

People return to God during suffering.

Declare into My slave , that truly, I am Oft-Forgiving, and Most-Merciful. And that My torment is indeed the most painful torment. [ Quran : 15:49-50]

And verily, We will make them taste of the near torment [i.e. the torment in the life of this world, i.e. disasters, calamities] prior to the supreme torment (in the Hereafter), in order that they may (repent and) return. [ Quran: 32:21]

Wisdom behind Why we suffer?

1) Calamities remind you of the great blessings of good health and ease.
2) Calamities show you the true nature of this world.

Verily, We have created Man in toil. (Quran : 90:4)
This wordly life is not but diversion and amusement. And indeed, the home of the hereafter that is the [eternal] life, if only they new. [ Quran:29:64]

reply to post by jumpingbeanz



Can you see the pain, suffering, smell, wind, etc.

So, though we cannot see the pain, suffering, smell, Wind does not mean that the pain, suffering, smell, wind does not exist. So is the God. Just because we cannot see the God does not mean that God does not exist. Though we cannot see Him, but we can see His creations.

We cannot see electricity (what you can see is wire) but electricity exist.

How many things in the sky that billions light years away, even trillions light years away that could not be seen by people yet the things exist?

How many molecular things even nucleus (hair divided in millions) that cannot be seen by people yet exist? People could only see those things by using a very powerful microscope.

How many waves (radio, electromagnetic, electricity, etc) that cannot be seen yet exist?

Those things exist, yet the human sense is very limited so it cannot sense their existence.

The human ability to see colors limited to certain frequencies. People only could hear limited frequencies. Sometimes the light not only very dazzling but also could make people blind. So is the sound. Certain sound could not be heard by human sense while other sound which is very loud could destroy human‘s hearing.

If to sense the creatures of God, sometimes people could not do it, even more to sense the Creator: God

There are millions of people controlling the traffic on road, sea, and air. Beacons are built. People also build traffic light and radar. Air Traffic Control is built to prevent accident. All vehicles have drivers. Even on airplane there are pilot and co-pilot to make the flight safer. On the ships there are Captain, navigator, and engineers. Yet thousands of accidents happen every year on land, sea, and air. Even though there are many controllers, the accidents still happen.


On the contrary, the Earth, Sun, Moon, Stars, and others always revolve for billions of years without single crash. Most scientists believe that the Earth, Sun, and all of the other planets and moons in the solar system formed about 4.6 billion years ago. For billions of years until now the Earth never bump into the Sun, and the Sun never collides with the Moon. There is no mark, police, nor pilots to drive them. Without God, the Controller of the Universe, none of these would happen. Everything is in order because there is God who controls everything. Allah has put orbit for each of those things. If we really think about it then we will know that God exist.

To those arrogant people who deny the existence of God, Our Lord (Allah) questions them about His creatures. Who is the creator of sperm and plant? People or God the All Wise Creator?

“Have ye seen that which ye emit?
Do ye create it or are We the creator?” [Quran 56:58-59]

“Have ye seen that which ye cultivate?
Is it ye who foster it, or are We the Fosterer?” [Quran 56:63-64]

“Was it ye who made the tree thereof to grow, or were We the grower?” [Quran 56:72]

Can Men Create a Fly?

In another verse, Allah challenges others to create a fly if they could do it. Men may be could make robots from things that created by Allah. Yet, none could make a fly from nothing nor thing that could reproduce except Allah:

“…Lo! Those on whom ye call beside Allah will never create a fly though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from him. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought!” [Quran 22:73]

reply to post by jumpingbeanz


Can you see the pain, suffering, smell, Wind, etc.

So, though we cannot see the pain, suffering, smell, Wind does not mean that the pain, suffering, smell, Wind does not exist. So is the God. Just because we cannot see the God does not mean that God does not exist. Though we cannot see Him, but we can see His creations.

We cannot see electricity (what you can see is wire) but electricity exist.

How many things in the sky that billions light years away, even trillions light years away that could not be seen by people yet the things exist?

How many molecular things even nucleus (hair divided in millions) that cannot be seen by people yet exist? People could only see those things by using a very powerful microscope.

How many waves (radio, electromagnetic, electricity, etc) that cannot be seen yet exist?

Those things exist, yet the human sense is very limited so it cannot sense their existence.

The human ability to see colors limited to certain frequencies. People only could hear limited frequencies. Sometimes the light not only very dazzling but also could make people blind. So is the sound. Certain sound could not be heard by human sense while other sound which is very loud could destroy human‘s hearing.

If to sense the creatures of God, sometimes people could not do it, even more to sense the Creator: God

There are millions of people controlling the traffic on road, sea, and air. Beacons are built. People also build traffic light and radar. Air Traffic Control is built to prevent accident. All vehicles have drivers. Even on airplane there are pilot and co-pilot to make the flight safer. On the ships there are Captain, navigator, and engineers. Yet thousands of accidents happen every year on land, sea, and air. Even though there are many controllers, the accidents still happen.


On the contrary, the Earth, Sun, Moon, Stars, and others always revolve for billions of years without single crash. Most scientists believe that the Earth, Sun, and all of the other planets and moons in the solar system formed about 4.6 billion years ago. For billions of years until now the Earth never bump into the Sun, and the Sun never collides with the Moon. There is no mark, police, nor pilots to drive them. Without God, the Controller of the Universe, none of these would happen. Everything is in order because there is God who controls everything. Allah has put orbit for each of those things. If we really think about it then we will know that God exist.

To those arrogant people who deny the existence of God, Our Lord (Allah) questions them about His creatures. Who is the creator of sperm and plant? People or God the All Wise Creator?

“Have ye seen that which ye emit?
Do ye create it or are We the creator?” [Quran 56:58-59]

“Have ye seen that which ye cultivate?
Is it ye who foster it, or are We the Fosterer?” [Quran 56:63-64]

“Was it ye who made the tree thereof to grow, or were We the grower?” [Quran 56:72]

Can Men Create a Fly?

In another verse, Allah challenges others to create a fly if they could do it. Men may be could make robots from things that created by Allah. Yet, none could make a fly from nothing nor thing that could reproduce except Allah:

“…Lo! Those on whom ye call beside Allah will never create a fly though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from him. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought!” [Quran 22:73]

reply to post by Abuaisha


To op, it gives all the 90% murderers of all humans to choose. Most of the scum are in police and government and want to kill anyone they want.

Its pretty simple. 90% of all humans are trashy murderers and the rest of us just have to put up with it.

I have had 18 years of virtual premeditated murder by the police in london trying to destroy my life for no reason.

So those saying only some in police are bad are wrong, at least 90% are murderers.

Just make sure if your the good 10%, do not do anything wrong, they love it, by i mean the 90% that just want to destroy.