What is going on in Britain???

I knew a totally innocent boy who committed suicide in high school because of non-stop bullying. The reasons for the abuse were many. He was overweight, he had an alcoholic mother, he smelled funny, or he was simply deemed "weird". Having seen this firsthand, I have a special contempt and hatred for bullies.

Sadists who make a target of anyone they're able to are subhuman scum, in my opinion, and should be dealt with as such. In the case of the bullies in the news article who terrorized these innocent people, I could line them up, firing squad fashion, execute them, and go about my day.
I'd feel about as much remorse as if I had stepped on a cockroach.

Major News is always so hyped up. Its hard to tell truth from fiction. But regardless of that statement, the fact is that they are creating laws so anyone can be a criminal for any reason. You do not have to rob a store, kill someone or even litter to get sent into court.

Anyway about that girl who was slapped. Maybe hitting her was not the best way to deal with it. Well since she called the cops there must be some big issues between them both. We do not know the story involved and disciplining kids can have alot of different reactions. I prefer the talk to them method, not just smack them around and expect them to do what you say and not talk back approach.

Why should they not be allowed to talk to their parents? (The kids)... And if they do not say something the parent(s) want them to, they get a hit in face.

Calling the cops obviously was done from a very hurt side of the girl... But as I said, we do not even know the story, just what was stated in a article.

Know what u mean. Im portuguese but lived there between 2005 and 2009. I had to buy a car so i didnt have to walk home after work at night (10 minute walk). Its an amazing contrast between the older generations (great, lovely people) and the young generation (13,14,15... years old), all they want is drink, drugs, sex and violence, not saying all of them, but where i was, Crawley, West Sussex, it was most of them. It was the only thing i hate in England, that and the weather, of course.

Originally posted by whitezombie93
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

That's simply not true. Poverty does not cause crime or produce criminals. Yes, you could say that alot of crime is concentrated in poor areas but that does not necessarily mean poverty is the main cause of it. IMO crime is born out of boredom, desperation, lack of understanding and improper education.

Why would one be bored? no work, no where for young people to go due to lack of investment in local communities. Surely a sign of poverty?

Desperation and improper education are again all down to poverty.

So although youve stated that poverty is not the cause for crime, the examples you have provided are largely caused by poverty.

How many of these crimes occur in rich communities? I'm not saying rich people do not commit crime, ofcourse they do, but how many of the kids getting asbo's come from wealthy communities? Knife crime? Muggings?

I don't think there is a need to hit kids to bring them into line, just an EXTREMELY VIOLENT ANGER THAT WILL SCARE THE HELL out of them to remind them not do do it again

Hitting them could either work, or it make them violent too.

Beyond a certain age, vocal discipline will fail anyway so it needs to be done young

I seen the afternoon news on sky the gangs have been back to the that same house .They skynews also had ministers on the show and said citizens can use reasonable force to defend themselves but called on the whole community to start confronting them \gangs as a whole , like the person who got killed on a bus when he tried to stop kids throwing chips.fries he got killed ,He said if other people on the bus would of backed the person up things may be different, he was saying if every one say on the bus backed the civic minded person then that person may still be alive. me thinks they are right but in that instance people looke away

[edit on 3/13/2010 by dashar]

Originally posted by babylonstew
S&F for you
i agree the entire system is wrong
its as tho TPTB want gangs on violent, obusive unruly out of control teenagers runing riot.
on a side note, i once reported some kids for threatening to burn my house down, the police responce was and i quote, ' we cant do anything until they actually commit an offense'
basically, come back when they burn the house down
when i was a kid, if you threatened someoen like that, they would likely smack you round the head, or worse tell your parents, and they would smack you
these days, liek you said, parents are frightned of thier own kids, isnt that backwards somehow?

Actually if you think about it there is nothing wrong with the system - its working just the way its supposed thankyou very much, TPTB want a complete breakdown of society so we the masses beg them for help and will accept any measures they decide to put forth.

In other words to bring about an Orwellian scientific dictatorship, complete control of the masses.

[edit on 13/3/2010 by survivor]

Whenever I listen to BBC radio there is always some controversial programme on about how society is collapsing and what is the *Government* going to do to sort it out, with all sorts of people calling in and pitching in about what the government should do...

...quite simply, it is the parents' job to control the kids, not the government. The government's job is to uphold the law in the streets and the parents uphold the law in the house. It's too easy to ask the government why your kids are misbehaving. Look in the mirror.

There was a fascinating series recently on the way the British family had changed over the years and ran through some fairly significant changes and talked about the social, economic, judicial events that helped instigate these changes.

The biggest change in the homes and families isn't to do with poverty, crime, absent fathers, education or anything as immediate as that. The biggest change is more to do with the change in the role and the focus children have within the 'family unit'. Up until fairly recently, children were a peripheral matter. If you could afford it, you didn't even raise your own children: you either got in a nanny or you packed them off to boarding school. For everyone else, if children had to be at home, then the quieter and out of the way the better. Coincidentally, this was at a time when children - even in large towns and cities - could be out from dawn til dusk and only come home for a quick meal.

Sometime in the 1980s and 1990s things began to change. There's a lot of things involved, and people can pick and choose what they believe to be the most important aspects (me, the aspiration and consumerism that exploded in the 1980s) but it's hard to say for certain which aspects are most important.

However, from that time onwards, the focus of the family slowly switched from adults to the children. No longer did mother and father rule house but the children. Rather than telling children what to do, it became about appeasement and about meeting the demands made by children.

Ironically, adults* are now spending more time and more money on their children than ever before. Childhood poverty is now rarely about starvation, but more about the lack of consumer products that help define 'standards' and placement in society. Whilst there's still latchkey kids and tearways out all hours of the day, more and more children are spending time at home and expecting to be entertained and 'gifted' whilst they are there and parents to be at their beck and call.

How does this all change? I'm not really sure as it's such a complicated issue with everything from consumerism, education, employment, human rights and the kitchen sink involved.

Personally, I'd start with holding back on (quite literally) spoiling kids. There's too many people with the mentality where they 'want better' for their kids. Whilst on the surface that's pretty noble, but unless you had a fantastically #ty childhood, why? All you're doing is creating an arms race of expectation that stacks up every generation.

Secondly, as much as I hate Thatcherism, one thing I did agree with is the 'short sharp shock' regime that was implemented for youth crime: basically a cross between a boot camp and the film 'Scum'. I got the # kicked out of me on a daily basis by officers there and it made me never want to go back. Unlike ASBOs and the like, which are a badge of honour and something to actually aspire to.

Thirdly, this is a mixed-bag and there has to be careful demarcation of lines not to cross but schools need to be sorted out regarding the roles of teachers and discipline. I went to a grammar school which used corporal punishment and, whilst it was an awful thing to be on the end of (anything from canes, slippers, plimsolls to branches off a tree), I never actually knew of anyone getting punished who didn't actually do anything wrong in the first place. It was more than firm, but it was fair.

At my school we also had mandatory cadets too that did the usual cadet stuff. Whilst I'm wary of the military and using schools as feeders for the armed forces, I think the cadets were a great way of developing a whole range of skills, both practical and social as well as installing some self-respect and respect for others.

*and I'm generalising here as there's always exceptions.

Imo the changes should start at the top, not the bottom.

I think that those incharge of certain departments should be on short contracts which are renewed by election.

Chief of Police, Chief of Social Work, Chief of Health, Chief of Schools, etc etc.... all these people should be held accountable for their actions or rather inactions.

This would make them do the job they are there to do which is make the place better, and if they dont do it they get booted out.

So long as they get away with shoddy performance the system will go to rack and ruin.

reply to post by Muckster


Simple really dude,

You can't introduce ID implants without a good reason, even better than a good reason is to have the public demanding it.

How do you get the public to as TPTB to make them feel safer by having ID implants ?? This is ATS and we all bloody well know full well what's going on.

When a criminal is released early from prison he is often given a nice shiny new house next door to decent people. at the expense of the decent people. He then goes and robs the decent people to buy drugs and alcohol and the obligatory giant TV and surround sound to keep the decent people (who pay his rent) awake all night making it that much harder for them to do their job propels to earn money to pay for scumbag new neighbors dozens of hungry children.

In amongst all this crap are scum bags making money, the mega high flying big Pharma Reps supplying the governments "legal drugs " methadone.
The solicitors and barristers , the ex offender dogooders and their expenses. The big social landlords and their advisers, surveyors, solicitors etc and their multimillion pound grants to take care of the poor lost souls that make life a misery for the decent citizen.

An endless stream of money going around and around with an endless line of fingers in the pie.


If Darwinism is true and we humans are a result of the process of natural selection, the perhaps we should rid ourselves of guilt and "Deselect" repeat criminals in favour of socially responsible people ? Surely the "natural" thing to do ?

Originally posted by blackhatchet
Whenever I listen to BBC radio there is always some controversial programme on about how society is collapsing and what is the *Government* going to do to sort it out, with all sorts of people calling in and pitching in about what the government should do...

...quite simply, it is the parents' job to control the kids, not the government. The government's job is to uphold the law in the streets and the parents uphold the law in the house. It's too easy to ask the government why your kids are misbehaving. Look in the mirror.

I think one of the problems with this view is that a lot of young parents these days were brought up in this modern way and don't know how to discipline or control kids. It's now ofetn left to grandparents to bring up kids.

And another thing, in the old days we had all sorts of people giving moral guidance such as ministers of religion, or local police bobby's, plus mothers didnt work as much so stay at home mums formed coffee mornings and gave eash other help and support.

All that has gone now, and what with modern mums not having the skills in place the only people we have left to teach kids are teachers, and a lot of them are hopless. Teachers in my opinion cause immense damage by setting terrible examples to kids in the way they wont do work, or they wont do certain things with kids, and they take so much time off, and they wont discipline kids. Its no wonder kids today havnt got a clue how to behave properly.

I just spent 4 weeks back in England visiting family, in my opiniion it seems to be getting worse too. On the main road next to my families home a guy got mown down in hit a run and left for dead for apparently 'looking at a girl in the wrong way'.
The stories of the vicious beatings and stabbings just from a small town that my 19 year old sister witnesses weekly is disturbing.

My cousin is police within the area and some of them stories are horrifc the parents are just as bad if not worse. I feel sorry for anyone who has to vote this year. what a choice you guys have to make, Brits are truly gritty and are greatly varied in many qualities, if they were allowed to do their thing they would easily sort this mess out. It just seems to me that the police and government have too a tight grip.

Politicians create problems they then offer solutions for. And these solutions take away more freedoms.

In amongst all this crap are scum bags making money, the mega high flying big Pharma Reps supplying the governments "legal drugs " methadone.
The solicitors and barristers , the ex offender dogooders and their expenses. The big social landlords and their advisers, surveyors, solicitors etc and their multimillion pound grants to take care of the poor lost souls that make life a misery for the decent citizen.

An endless stream of money going around and around with an endless line of fingers in the pie.

your nearly on the the button but who is the chief

Originally posted by expat2368
Sounds like something out of "Clockwork Orange" to me. Never thought it would get that bad.

At least in Clockwork Orange ( one of my favorite movies of all times) the Droogies didn't have to worry about getting carted off to the nick for quaffing a few half pints of Moloko Vellocet, or Drencrum or Synthemesc!!

Had Alex's P & M shown him a bit of the old ultra-violence at home , he might not have been so quick to do so to others. But no doubt had they done so little Alex would have dripped some salty from his glazzballs, or complained of a pain in his guttywuts and P & M would have been nicked!!


But seriously folks, the BIG picture is this: the people who are planning britains policies for the future want a totally surveilled society with people afraid to do anything without government approval. All these new rules and cameras are for a reason: you brits are the new way...and if you do not react to them as Alex did to the Droogies when georgie boy mentioned a ' new way', your fate will be sealed.

reply to post by Muckster


Flagged & Starred.

Now, i've said it before and i'll say it again... too many of these youths come from broken homes... one parent families or no parents at all as they were put into care etc etc...

Parents don't get to see their children because they are always out working long hours... by the time they get home from work it's too late to sit down with their kids because it's nearly time for them to go sleep... also the parent or parents are too tired from working long hours so they want their peace & quiet when they get home... most just tell their kids to go to their room and do their homework but the reality is most will just go to their rooms and play on the playstation or get on the internet and chat...

The Society we live in is the problem... the Government want you to work till you drop and in most cases that is what happens as one or both parents are too busy trying to pay the mortgage off on their homes and pay the bills...

Something has got to give and this means going back to when it was just one parent working full time while the other looks after the kids.... also if you look at when these kids became unruly it's when the Mother who used to be the one at home looking after the kids decided that she wanted to have her Independence and go out to work... now i'm not saying that women shouldn't work but since they've got all 'Oh, i want to work for myself' and 'i want independence' unruly kids have gotten worse....

In my opinion i think the Female has more of an influence on kids as the Male doesn't have those Motherly Instincts or female nature... you know what i mean... the female bears the child in her womb for 9 months and then in most cases breast feeds that child... brings them up until school and then should be there for them while the male is out making cash but it's not like that these days because of the reasons i've mentioned above.

The answer is very simple. It's called Cultural Marxism and it is a secret, insidious plan to destroy traditional society, to create chaos, to make nothing work anymore - so that from the ashes of 'the old way' a new world order can arise. See my thread.

Order From Chaos

...think about it. It makes perfect sense for those wishing to build a new global society. The old must first be destroyed.

The kind of incidents depicted in the OP do not surprise me anymore. I know the secret behind them - they are the result of a deliberate agenda, not ineptitude.

Here's another terrible and recent case:
Teen kicks nan to death in row over cigarette

Something's very wrong with Britain in my opinion. There seem to be a lot of teenage thugs in Britain who think that picking on a pensioner makes them 'tough'. In reality, they're weak and pathetic cowards. Banning guns, banning knives, introducing more and more ludicrous restrictions, installing CCTV cameras everywhere... they're all temporary 'patches' and will not solve the problem.

I don't know if they allow you to have guns in England or not, but if everyone had a gun on themselves even in the US, the idiot gang members would think twice about attacking or threatening someone because they could end up dead themselves.

You can own a shotgun with a license and air rifles are easily available, but that's it. The problem is, criminals will always have guns, so when guns are outlawed the average citizen becomes at a disadvantage. We have to rely entirely on the police, who may turn up 30 minutes too late. If you're being threatened with a knife, what can you do? The police could be miles away. Tae Kwon Do won't help you out of this one.

Politicians create problems they then offer solutions for. And these solutions take away more freedoms.

What makes you think 'they' would need a good reason? In such a situation, I don't even see that 'they' would need to wait for the public to demand it. It doesn't work like that in Britain. When was the last time we demanded anything? More and more restrictions are being slapped down and there's not even a murmur from us.

Thanks for all the replies people

It seems that most of us are in agreement that things are getting worse although there are some differences with regards to what we think is causing it and what we can do about it...

reply to post by Full_Vision



I believe that you are correct, Full_Vision... this problem does not have one single cause... it is a mixture of things that cause these problems... I believe we need to turn the clock back a little bit. We need old fashioned values and beliefs re-introduced.

There is far too much of a trendy “right on” approach to youths and, I believe, that what we are seeing now proves that it doesn’t work!!

Originally posted by Essan
Bring back the stocks for social crimes (like vandalism etc) and make prison somewhere that people would rather not go to instead of a rather cushy place to stay for a few years while you tone up your muscles and pass a degree in how to sue the council.

Essan a lot of people would dismiss this comment... however, i feel you have a point...

One of the problems for me is that there is no shame in society... Believe it or not, we NEED shame!!!

People seem to have no self respect or shame... they will happily walk around the supermarkets in there nightclothes... No shame!!! Drive around their children in a car while smoking cigarettes... No Shame!!! Women will happily have 5 different kids with 5 different fathers... No Shame!!! Men will impregnate different woman and then never see the children again... No Shame!!!! Parents will be well aware that their children are committing crime but not bother to do anything about it... No Shame!!!

We need to bring back shame!!!

Make people feel like scum when they are acting like scum!!!


Another thing that angers me is this current trend of glorifying the yob!!! From adverts to movies... music to magazines... it is the beer drinking, kebab eating, swaggering, swearing yob who is being glamorised!!!

What happened to the English gentleman??

Also... i have had enough of the government exploiting situations so that they can introduce stupid gimmicks and quick fix schemes while making money...

Asbos, on the spot fines and speed cameras are just a few examples of high profile Government schemes that have done NOTHING to stop crime, but have raised millions for the government’s coffers!!!!

Enough of the silly schemes... enough of the trendy liberal approach to kids... we need to return Britain to a more tradition values of self respect and dignity... Problem is, most people are not interested... they are more worried about if they have enough money for a few cans of Stella!!


Oh... one last point... My Grandparents were both raised in the 1920's in a part of London called "The Bunk"

People who lived in the bunk were extremely poor. They would often use coal sacks as makeshift blankets to keep warm... sometimes use newspaper to insulate their homes and often struggle to put food on the table... borderline poverty...

There was NO shootings... NO stabbings... and children would ALWAYS be polite and respectful to adults...

My Nan used to always say, with fondness, that she remembers how her mother would always save enough money to buy a bottle of bleach so that she could clean the pavement outside her front door!!!!

Poverty, although a contributing factor, is NOT the cause of crime!!