HAARP Is Out Of Control, You be the judge!!!

reply to post by Wolfenz


What's up Wolfenz??? Thanks for your information. Its always good to have you as a contributor.

Originally posted by paradoxchild
I think it has to do with the media and what stories they want cover.It just goes to show how influenced we are by the media,so it my seem like one year it's a huge tsunami or the next a bunch of hurricanes but in reality we get all types of natural disasters every year globally.Not to say HAARP has nothing to do with it-HAARP is very much real and America is no longer the only one that has such technology.Good thread.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by paradoxchild]

Thank you for your post. And yes, I do agree that the media definitely plays a role in how they choose to frame their stories.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Give me a little time to read your links. I find them interesting and informative. ATS needs more of this type of participation.
It should help folks actually see how HAARP can transmit LF over large distances, just like EM and I have been saying since the beginning of the thread.

Once you get through the links, it's time for the next step - where you see that HAARP doesn't transmit LF. It can stimulate the auroral electrojet to produce ELF and SLF for it, but it's not capable of LF transmission. Take a look at the specs for the D616G. Actually, you could look at the antenna structure and tell it can't, but that's more of an acquired ability. Although that NAA Cutler link should give you a clue - look at that antenna! It takes a whacking big antenna for VLF, larger still for SLF/ELF.

At that, the Cutler antenna is horribly capacitive (meaning too short), the entire design rotates around compensating for it as much as possible.

edit: typo

ps - one of the reasons the VLF, SLF and ELF transmitter rigs are so damned over-powered is that the antennas are so very short in relation to the wavelength that the efficiency is crap. I've got a tech brief on the old Navy Sanguine and Seafarer projects around here somewhere, IIRC they put in something like 6MW to get 8W radiated power.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Bedlam]

Actually, HAARP CAN transmit ELF frequencies. I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but, I can assure you that what you are saying is disinformation. Do not take that last statement personal because I am not accusing you of anything. But, I will say that your sources are flawed.

Originally posted by biochemky
reply to post by Bedlam

 

A governance document entered in the Official Journal of Communications for the European Parliament dated January 28, 1999 is specified as relating to Environment, Security, and Foreign Affairs and is entitled Resolution on Environment, Security and Foreign Policy.

This European Parliament governance document cites the HAARP facility in Alaska as the result of research conducted by the global military sector for the purpose of employing environmental manipulation as a weapon.

www.scribd.com... (in Spanish, pertinent excerpts follow)

That's the best evidence for HAARP being used as a weapon that this non-Head-of-state, non governmental goon is ever going to be able to give you to get your attention that HAARP and HAARP-like technology is indeed being utilized as weapons as we speak.

Well done Biochemky. Thanks for sharing this information.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

I guess "recently" depends on your point of view. Tajmar's experiments were conducted in 2005 and the results were released in 2006.

There have been no successful attempts at replication.
www.earthtech.org...

So far Einstein has not been shown to be wrong.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

Please provide a source for your statement that HAARP can transmit ELF frequencies.


[edit on 3/21/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

 

Please provide a source for your statement that HAARP can transmit ELF frequencies.


[edit on 3/21/2010 by Phage]

Not to be rude or a butinski---But haven't you posted that HAARP has been used to communicate with submarines? Are the submarines on the surface when they do that? Or did that? How did that HAARP signal get down into the water so that Captain Nemo knew he was being contacted.

reply to post by Donny 4 million

Nope.

I haven't said HAARP is or ever was used to communicate with submarines.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

Nope.

I haven't said HAARP is or ever was used to communicate with submarines.

Oh well now. Did you ever say on this thread that HAARP was used to experiment with submarine communication?

reply to post by Donny 4 million

Oh well now. Did you ever say on this thread that HAARP was used to experiment with submarine communication?

Who do you think you are? Columbo? This is fun.

This thread? Nope.
Any other thread? Nope.

But don't forget, we were talking about whether or not HAARP transmits ELF radiation.

[edit on 3/21/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

Oh well now. Did you ever say on this thread that HAARP was used to experiment with submarine communication?

Who do you think you are? Columbo? This is fun.

This thread? Nope.
Any other thread? Nope.

But don't forget, we were talking about whether or not HAARP transmits ELF radiation.

[edit on 3/21/2010 by Phage]

Donny 4 million yes ---Colombo no. I could take that as a Personal attack but I love that guy.
I am though -- perhaps your worst nightmare. I can split hairs with the best of them.
Forgetfulness is not my bag when I post. I save that for my car keys.
You have been backed into a rubber corner .Before I spring your own words for all to see-- you could concede or save face and admit that we are talking about Submarine communication.
HAARP can communicate with a submarine if it wants to .
Right Phage.
It does not need to transmit a LFsignal to do that either does it Phage?.
Could HAARP just manipulate it on to a carrier that it bounces off the ionosphere??

reply to post by Donny 4 million

No we aren't talking about submarine communication. Well, it didn't start that way. You brought it up as if to indicate that HAARP does communicate with submarines and that it transmits ELF frequencies to do so. Or were you just stating that irrelevantly?

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

Please provide a source for your statement that HAARP can transmit ELF frequencies.

Not to be rude or a butinski---But haven't you posted that HAARP has been used to communicate with submarines? Are the submarines on the surface when they do that? Or did that? How did that HAARP signal get down into the water so that Captain Nemo knew he was being contacted.

Nope.

I haven't said HAARP is or ever was used to communicate with submarines.

Please provide evidence that HAARP can communicate with a submarine if it wants to. And, like you said, we are talking about submerged submarines. I would be interested in hearing about such communications.

No, HAARP cannot "manipulate it on a carrier that bounces off the ionosphere". As has been explained to you, a HF carrier wave does not turn into a VLF wave no matter how it is "manipulated". It becomes a modulated HF carrier wave. But it's not surprising that you didn't understand the explanation since you believe that:

Wattage is never increased by amplification.

and that ELF waves are not radio waves.

Radio is free air transmission. ELF is not free air transmission.

.
So much for being an expert in RADIO.

[edit on 3/21/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
There are far to many experts that know HAARP was designed as a military weapon for me to put any trust in your thinking otherwise.
Technological lingo can confuse you and I can understand that because the terms are often erroneously reported on. But the words right out of a mans mouth can only mean what they say or they themselves are meaningless or a lie.
I have not said ,nor has anyone else that I know of said, that Cohen was referring to HAARP.
Can you quote me?

Who are your experts? Begich? That guy that was on the YouTube video?

You don't have to look so far, the previous post:

Actually your attempt to contaminate the fact that HAARP is a weapon and designed as one, along with weather control is truly disingenuous.
That is like saying William S. Cohen didn't say Others are engaging in those type weapons. Just wrong.
No bla bla bla will change it.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
Now, if this is the case, how can you tell me that you know DEFINITIVELY what electromagnetic radiation can, or cannot do?

Ah, the "If you don't know everything about something, then anything is possible, and there COULD BE fairies in the garden, therefore you must believe anything anyone says as possibly being true" argument. I see that one a lot, along with demands to disprove negatives and the like.

Well, I see it like this. We know a lot of stuff certainly appears to be true, some of it every time it's tested. Lots of people try to disprove this stuff by setting up experiments that should be able to tell is this or that aspect of it actually true, and verifiable? Things that can't be disproven are held in low esteem until the tests can be made. Over time we find that aspects of things we thought we knew were special cases, or were really something different, and then the list of things we thought we knew gets updated. And that's called science. It's not perfect, but it's our best attempt to codify what we know vs what we think. It evolves constantly over time. And you know, a lot of times it works as advertised. Thus are you sitting in front of a computer that works, and works because of science, and not some shaman doing the funky chicken with a yak leg appealing to the gods.

If I were a layman with no understanding whatever of this sort of thing, I could see how looking at a picture of the IRI would fill you with dread. But remember, they built the thing knowing how steered arrays worked, and it did! It's not like they just stick things together willy-nilly.

There's also an aspect of retard Bush/evil supergenius Bush in your argument - he can't be both. You seem to be arguing both that no one knows what it can do, yet someone was able to design a piece of equipment explicitly for the purpose of doing .... something. It can't be both.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
Actually, HAARP CAN transmit ELF frequencies. I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but, I can assure you that what you are saying is disinformation. Do not take that last statement personal because I am not accusing you of anything. But, I will say that your sources are flawed.

You're quite wrong. Most of you guys (i.e. Donny) don't even know what ELF is, he came to the thread convinced it was sound, which hopefully I've disabused him of.

No, the IRI does not and cannot emit ELF. I know this, on a number of levels, and it's not because I did or didn't read Bearden, Begich or the Weather Warrior site or whatnot.

You're trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs, here, EM.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

Nope.

I haven't said HAARP is or ever was used to communicate with submarines.

In a sense, Donny's right on this one. The IRI was looked at as an emergency backup to the Navy's two ELF transmission sites. It was felt that they were very well known and insecure, the equipment was relatively easy to damage in terms of fragility, it was also very susceptible to EMP damage from HAND in a way that would have made them unable to protect against it, at least with 100% reliability.

A number of alternatives were proposed, one was to use the HAARP IRI to emit ELF from the ionosphere using the electrojet wobbling trick (and no, Donny and EM, it does NOT emit ELF directly). However, this also was found to be lacking in reliability - the IRI can only do this when the electrojet is active, when it's accessible to the HAARP site, which isn't always, and generally only at night. That wasn't considered to be sufficient.

Given that, the Navy developed - something else, and put up a number of VLF stations to augment the ones that existed already. These are scattered worldwide, provide a lot more redundancy and can still communicate to submerged subs, albeit not quite as deeply as the ELF stations could. At any rate, the ELF was only a "doorbell" function, it sent a message that something was up, you then came shallow and used VLF or a signal mast anyway. It's not like you could communicate much with ELF due to physical bandwidth constraints on low frequency transmissions. ELF has been abandoned as a sub communication link, and the stations are shut down.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
Well done Biochemky. Thanks for sharing this information.

I notice he left out the footnotes concerning the source of the "information".

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
How did that HAARP signal get down into the water so that Captain Nemo knew he was being contacted.

The reason ELF was used was due to path loss in seawater, due to dissipative losses.

The higher the frequency, the more the loss in db/meter.

However, the other factor is how many Watts you can actually radiate. It turns out with VLF, you have so much more radiated power that you can cope with the path loss, to some extent. And you can transmit so much more information that way, than you can with ELF. The Navy wasn't managing to output more than about 6-8W with their big ELF transmitters, and HAARP doesn't manage to evoke but about half that, on average. OTOH, you can get hundreds of Watts of radiated power from a VLF rig. So, if you have 10x the path loss, so be it, you've got 10x the input power to start with.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

No we aren't talking about submarine communication. Well, it didn't start that way. You brought it up as if to indicate that HAARP does communicate with submarines and that it transmits ELF frequencies to do so. Or were you just stating that irrelevantly?

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

Please provide a source for your statement that HAARP can transmit ELF frequencies.

Not to be rude or a butinski---But haven't you posted that HAARP has been used to communicate with submarines? Are the submarines on the surface when they do that? Or did that? How did that HAARP signal get down into the water so that Captain Nemo knew he was being contacted.

Nope.

I haven't said HAARP is or ever was used to communicate with submarines.

Please provide evidence that HAARP can communicate with a submarine if it wants to. And, like you said, we are talking about submerged submarines. I would be interested in hearing about such communications.

No, HAARP cannot "manipulate it on a carrier that bounces off the ionosphere". As has been explained to you, a HF carrier wave does not turn into a VLF wave no matter how it is "manipulated". It becomes a modulated HF carrier wave. But it's not surprising that you didn't understand the explanation since you believe that:

Wattage is never increased by amplification.

and that ELF waves are not radio waves.

Radio is free air transmission. ELF is not free air transmission.

.
So much for being an expert in RADIO.

[edit on 3/21/2010 by Phage]

It is important to realize that HAARP has the ability to communicate with submarines. This is pointed out very specifically by ATS member Phage.

This is an ATS post you made is it not?

posted on 25-1-2010 @ 01:40 PM single this post "quote"REPLY TO:


reply to post by Quickfix

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Sun "super charges" the ionosphere millions of times more than HAARP can. Every day.

HAARP and submarine communications:
Did you read the links you provided?

There are ongoing experiments at HAARP studying the production and propagation of VLF and ELF radio waves in the ionosphere. The specific reason for these experiments is for applications in long distance communications, including submarines.

Why did you provide a link to undersea cables? That has nothing to do submarines


signature
Get your facts first, then you can distort them

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
HAARP can communicate with a submarine if it wants to .
Right Phage.
It does not need to transmit a LFsignal to do that either does it Phage?.
Could HAARP just manipulate it on to a carrier that it bounces off the ionosphere??

Not now that we don't use ELF in subs.

And, no, it can't "manipulate it onto a carrier". That, again, is sort of like you thinking ELF radio was just sound.