Large Hadron Collider to be shut down for a year, due to mistakes made in construction.

A director at the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva has told BBC News that some mistakes were made in construction.

So the 2008 accident caused one tonne of helium to leak into the tunnel and resulted in a £24m repair bill. The cost to build the LHC was a total of £2.6bn and add to that this recent construction errors that need to be corrected and you have a director stating: "It's something that, with a lot more resources and with a lot more manpower and quality control, possibly could have been avoided but I have difficulty in thinking that this is something that was a design error."

Lord oh lord, how much money is going to be wasted on this experiment? I know it's a prototype but you would have thought they would have got it right first time with £2.6bn to play with!!

source

BBC


[edit on 10-3-2010 by Majestic RNA]

Agreed. There are always going to be problems with something of this magnitude, but this takes the biscuit and is quite a let down in all honesty.

Nor Will it reach its full potential for another two years, Appears alot of things are coming to fruition..

Perhaps I should start being a prophet?

Compassionate Anarchy is the Social Civic we should endorse " Humans For Humans "

reply to post by Gestas


I think I get what you are saying. It is almost as if the universe does not want this thing built. It has had one snafu after another. Or maybe the engineers and physicists are subconsciously sabotaging themselves, because deep down they know that scientific paradigms are just paradigms, and not the whole story, and they know quite well this thing is venturing into quite powerful unknown territory, regardless of how the current models are accounting for safety. They are just models, not the territory. Or maybe TPTB are displaying an open grab for high technology that coincides with their massive increase in social webs in an attempt to get us to react, realize we don't want total external control, and try to figure out ways to connect with people and live without all of this external control. The only way to not have the system pull the strings is to be greater and wiser and more caring than the system. Then, people choose people over the system.

Well, look at how much the SCSC was initially supposed to cost, vs how much they said it was going to cost in the end. This is likely not going to be any different.

reply to post by Majestic RNA


There have been so many errors and setbacks with this damn thing it's not even funny ... think of all the really useful things that money could have been used for ... I think it's a disgrace if they continue to plough good money after bad ... when will they finally accept that this thing is not (and never was) meant to be (for whatever reason) !!!

Woody

Originally posted by woodwytch
reply to post by Majestic RNA

 

There have been so many errors and setbacks with this damn thing it's not even funny ... think of all the really useful things that money could have been used for ... I think it's a disgrace if they continue to plough good money after bad ... when will they finally accept that this thing is not (and never was) meant to be (for whatever reason) !!!

Woody

Think of all the useful things all the money could have been utilized for on each failed scientific experiment before it was successful. I doubt, however, that anything would be changed, other than a few more millionaires. I'd rather it go to science, personally.

Right, so we should just stop, pack up shop and forget it right?

They're on the cutting edge, trying to develop technology and machinery that will enable them to test theories. So of course they're going to suffer problems - someone tell me of a similar sort of scientific experiment of this magnitude that went off without a hitch.

I like how you didn't quote this :

He said: "The standard phrase is that the LHC is its own prototype. We are pushing technologies towards their limits."

"You don't hear about the thousands or hundreds of thousands of other areas that have gone incredibly well.

"With a machine like the LHC, you only build one and you only build it once."

I'm a bit surprised people are so easy to condemn them when they hit a stumbling block. Yeh, it sucks - I wish it was up and running and discovering new things everyday. Sure, it costs money - it always will. But what happened to the spirit of human endeavour?

reply to post by noonebutme


And who cares if it cost money, if we need some new we just press them at a higher speed that whats already happening...

Best regards

Loke.

Originally posted by Ecidemon

Originally posted by woodwytch
reply to post by Majestic RNA

 

There have been so many errors and setbacks with this damn thing it's not even funny ... think of all the really useful things that money could have been used for ... I think it's a disgrace if they continue to plough good money after bad ... when will they finally accept that this thing is not (and never was) meant to be (for whatever reason) !!!

Woody

Think of all the useful things all the money could have been utilized for on each failed scientific experiment before it was successful. I doubt, however, that anything would be changed, other than a few more millionaires. I'd rather it go to science, personally.

Don't get me wrong I personally love science and the thrill of discovery ... years ago I studied 'Natural Earth Sciences' with the Open University and the Heriot Watt University (Edinburgh, Scotland) ... but as things are at this moment in time it is priorities like yours that have helped the world reach it's present financial state.

... sometimes we have to hold back a while on the scientific adventures / space programmes etc ... and shift those priorities a little ... as much as I love science ... I love people and my planet even more.

Woody

It's ok folks, it should be up and running by December 21 2012

Very sad to hear doomsday machine is broke .

Fill it with vegetable oil , and make the world's biggest donut !

... the future thanks you !

Unlike other ATS members who do not really read and digest information, I read everything and take the time to read the many postings that accompany the threads created. As such, I am amazed after reading the previous postings that many have not noted the original posting to this thread whereby an unnamed director supposedly stated the following remarks.

"It's something that, with a lot more resources and with a lot more manpower and quality control, possibly could have been avoided but I have difficulty in thinking that this is something that was a design error."

Now after reading that and I do mean read, what part of this quote stands out as not being in support of a construction error? If he is stating that he has difficulty in thinking that it was a design flaw then he must think that something else not commented on is the real cause for halting the LHC experiments. I for one when I read this quote, pondered just what he could have meant by that public remark that clearly states he does not think a design flaw in the construction is at fault.

Well, it means to me that while the LHC wizards are publicly stating one thing, there is another reason that we the public are not being told about in regard to why they are shutting down for a year. Something about this public LHC press release tells me that what they are stating publicly is just a cover for something else that they don't feel we should know the truth about.

The LHC scientist could in fact already know that the Earth has only limited time left to contend with the real problem at hand. I mean why continue to work and spend money if you already know for a fact that it is only going to lead to everyone being sucked into a black hole?

While I would hope that more in the future comes out about what the LHC is really doing, but if they don't, it could be because they secretly know it would do no good and would only cause public panic to know that the damage has already been done and that what has been damaged can in no way be fixed.

Only in such a way would I think that the LHC would throw in the towel and shut down for the year. The construction cover story is believable and as such will serve the needs of those within LHC that are trying to conceal the real problem and the real agenda of what the LHC represents.

I try to stay as current with what happens at the LHC and this recent press release only adds to my level of concern with what really may be going on at the LHC.

Thanks for the posting.

reply to post by Majestic RNA


Doesnt suprise me at all since they havent even figured out that its not even properly contained within an electromagnetic of its own to prevent it from interacting with: 1 the EARTHS magnetic field, 2 the STAR SUNS magnetic field SMMFH and 3 the GALAXIES magnetic field. Basically allowing a DANGEROUS SCIENCE PROJECT, gotta love science even if it kills ya lol to be operated with no secure BONDAGE PROTECTION allowing something HUMANITY nor ABOVE CAN SENSE to sneak thru and SUPRISE THIS LITTLE UNIVERSE SMH. Thanks L.H.C. FOR THE DOOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edit on 3/10/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

Good, i hope there will be more and more problems with this project, as i don't support it for 1%. Why do it ? Look at the costs... What good is it ?

reply to post by noonebutme



Right, so we should just stop, pack up shop and forget it right?

No, did I say anything of the sort? I think not, my point if you read it, is the amount of money WASTED on this project, are you aware the 2008 accident costing £24m was due to a "soldering joint" failure? They spend £2.6bn building it and it failed on a dodgy soldering joint, that shouldn't have happened, it was an embarrassment to the engineers who commissioned it, that's a waste of money in my book.

They're on the cutting edge, trying to develop technology and machinery that will enable them to test theories. So of course they're going to suffer problems - someone tell me of a similar sort of scientific experiment of this magnitude that went off without a hitch.

Sure they're going to have problems, that goes without saying, but as I said in my OP they had £2.6bn to work with and it fails on something so insignificant in the whole scheme of things it's laughable.

I like how you didn't quote this :

"The standard phrase is that the LHC is its own prototype. We are pushing technologies towards their limits."

What's the point in quoting that? They have hundreds of thousands of other areas that have gone incredibly well, yet it still has to be shut down for a year to correct mistakes made in the construction of the thing, again a waste of money…

I'm a bit surprised people are so easy to condemn them when they hit a stumbling block. Yeh, it sucks - I wish it was up and running and discovering new things everyday. Sure, it costs money - it always will. But what happened to the spirit of human endeavour?

I'm not condemning anything or anyone, like Woody I love science and projects of this nature, check the threads I've created in the past, a fair few of them are science related, all I'm saying in my OP is I think they have wasted a fair few million so far and now they have mistakes made in construction to correct, and I bet that's going to run into the millions too… there's nothing wrong with my spirit of endeavour I personally think CERN have spent far too much money on this project correcting problems that shouldn't have happened, especially with the money they had to commission it...

I think that part of the reason that there are so many faults with it is that it was started up too early. If they had done more checks and safety measures before the initial start up we would not have had these costly mistakes.

Nonetheless I believe that the project should continue, the possible information that we could gain from this is immense. So it is costing a fortune, but what we could achieve with the results makes up for it. I will however admit that I am concerned by the amount of mistakes being made on a project thvat has taken so long, it does as others have said suggest outside influence.

-Cauch1

reply to post by MaxBlack




If you read and digest everything MaxBlack then you wouldn't be saying the Director was unnamed, Dr Steve Myers is clearly mentioned at the start of the BBC link I provided in my OP… And the way I read it is he's saying they needed more quality control and resources in order to avoid the mistakes that have happened, it wasn't a technicality flaw in the design, it just wasn't commissioned correctly and could have done with more money and resources thrown at it..

As to whether this is a cover for some nefarious problem, I don't know, I guess no one will know other than the scientists that work on the LHC, I urge you to read this article though:

LHC Worries are Based on Fear of the Unknown, not Science

There is a some very good information in it, the bit where it says, For everyone who says
“this is a huge waste of money, we have enough problems on Earth without wasting billions on crashing particles together“, you are wrong.

Well that was before they had the accident and this current problem so I disagree with that statement, they have wasted money…

LHC

reply to post by Majestic RNA


i will just regurgitate what the good people at CERN were saying on tv .

yes, their may be a problem, but this is a one off , once in a lifetime machine, not only that the biggest machine ever built! .. their was no prototype to test and work from, they basicly had to design and build.

the problem they have at the moment is NOT with any of the high tech machinery , it is with copper sheaths/plates which are used to conduct the electricity if their is a problem so they dont get more quenches (the problem that shut the LHC down before)

now, their is not 100% a problem, cern just want to be safe ! and they cant really be blamed for that.

to say they are wasting money is a joke, as they have not shut down the LHC, their current plan is that they have changed what they are experimenting for, instead of looking for the higgs, which they theorise requires the full power, they are going to do experiments in looking for dark energy/dark matter, as these experiments can be done at the 7Tev power they can have safely just now, once this experiment is finished, they are going to turn it off and fix/touch up all the copper bits and other odds and ends they want reinforced before it is turned back on and cranked up to the full 14 Tev needed to start on the particle experiments again!

please, in the future, instead of just posting the negative, like a newspaper does to attract readers, how about you actualy read/listen to the story and hear what you are being told instead of just spouting off when theirs a wealth of knowlage on this subject already!

reply to post by Cauch1


I agree with you Cauch1 it was started too early, but I guess they didn't go through the checks and safety measures as thoroughly as they should have done, the Director seems to be saying this, they needed more money and resources to achieve this, I also think they should continue with the project, it just gets my back up a bit with the amount of money wasted on it so far, not sure if there are any outside influences, they just messed up IMO..