A Detention Bill You Ought to Read More Carefully

Originally posted by CanadianDream420

Originally posted by Shark_Feeder
If this law is passed it will will qualify as both IMHO.

Do you think if this bills passes they will systematically start to imprison American Citizens under false pretenses?

No. That's the point. They won't legally need any pretenses at all.

reply to post by crusaderiam


Actually the President doesn't by any means wield absolute power or authority anywhere. Do you remember the attempt to shut down GITMO? Yeah, I'm quite sure it gives the President sweeping powers against anyone he deems a threat.
And we in the US Military don't just simply brand groups of people "threats" because we feel like it. Remember that there is a system and channels that anything would have to go through before being made official or executed.
Welcome to the reality of government, everything either takes too long or takes too long to get done. Certain bills like this are more likely to die out anyways during the process of Congressional Review, then it has to go through the other part of Congress, then it goes up for vote, then it goes through the Executive Branch to either be approved or vetoed, then finally it has to be passed down through the military structure, new training protocols have to be implemented, commanders have to be familiarized with it, the appropriate personnel have to be made aware of it.
All of this process will take at least a year and a half alone if it meets no resistance in the Legislature then it'll still take time to be implemented, and that is still time to cause an uproar, a fuss over the issue.

This thing hasn't even entered the full process yet, all you have to do is get enough people to call a key Senator on the respective committee that this bill is passing through and get that Senator to change the specific part of the bill that gives Executive power to arrest anyone, anywhere.

reply to post by spec_ops_wannabe


Granted that this bill could be stopped, but we discuss it because it MUST be stopped.

And there is nothing to stop the feds from implementing this policy using existing Law enforcement and alphabet agencies.

Remember "technically" it is still illegal for the military to deal with citizens in this way...violation of the posse comitatus.

It would be MUCH easier to enforce a law like this with FBI, NSA, and/or DHS

Does anyone know when this bill is being presented or when they vote on it? If this bill passes anyone including myself that has ever written anything against the government on these boards, or hints at a revolution, could be arrested and held.

This bill would allow them to arrest just about anyone because they "just didn't look right."
This is a bill you would expect to see in the old Soviet Union, not in America!!!

How can we stop this bill?( EDIT: This question was answered) Or is that like spitting in the wind?

[edit on 8-3-2010 by kennylee]

reply to post by kennylee



Only real hope to avoid confrontation at this point to contact your representatives and let them know how wrong this bill is.

Make sure they know any who vote for it will be thrown out of office come election time.

It's not much, but there really isn't much the average citizen can do at this point.

WOW

This bill is so broad it is almost like enacting martial law.

Why is this bill being introduced?

It makes no sense.

Originally posted by CanadianDream420

Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to post by Shark_Feeder

 

Whenever McCain attaches his name to a bill, you can be SURE it will be an attack upon your freedom.

I followed Mr. McCain quite well during his Campaign, and did a lot of background research, and I will strongly disagree with you here.

Not just because the man was shot down over Vietnam, or a POW that was tortures, and didn't relay once piece of information into whereabouts of American bases on their soil, but because he IS a man of honour who loves his country.

Meh... What do I know? I'm just a Canadian.

[edit on 8-3-2010 by CanadianDream420]

Canadian huh...well, that speaks volumes about why your opinion may be null and void. McCain was shot down, after he had already wrecked 2 other planes. He was a crappy pilot. Secondly, McCain cost the lives of several of his own servicemen when he destroyed a plane on USS Forrestal by shooting off a missile accidentally. He voted against civil rights and women's rights. He is notorious for having a bad temper. And the reason why he didn't talk when he was captured in Viet Nam was because...HE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING. He had gotten himself lost over enemy territory, against the orders of his C.O., and got shot down because he didn't know where he was, which also speaks worlds about his ability as a soldier. You've listened to the American Media Machine for a little too long. McCain is a 100 million dollar loser. Congrats on your support. You chose wrong.

But...Obama is just as much of an idiot as he is. He's doing his best to sink this country as quick as he can.

[edit on 8-3-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

Uh, hi! It's an Act/Bill/Statute right? That means it only refers to your person. Perhaps as a country, you might actually learn the difference of law and statute and plan your revolution from there.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Originally posted by CanadianDream420

Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to post by Shark_Feeder

 

Whenever McCain attaches his name to a bill, you can be SURE it will be an attack upon your freedom.

I followed Mr. McCain quite well during his Campaign, and did a lot of background research, and I will strongly disagree with you here.

Not just because the man was shot down over Vietnam, or a POW that was tortures, and didn't relay once piece of information into whereabouts of American bases on their soil, but because he IS a man of honour who loves his country.

Meh... What do I know? I'm just a Canadian.

[edit on 8-3-2010 by CanadianDream420]

Canadian huh...well, that speaks volumes about why your opinion may be null and void. McCain was shot down, after he had already wrecked 2 other planes. He was a crappy pilot. Secondly, McCain cost the lives of several of his own servicemen when he destroyed a plane on USS Forrestal by shooting off a missile accidentally. He voted against civil rights and women's rights. He is notorious for having a bad temper. And the reason why he didn't talk when he was captured in Viet Nam was because...HE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING. He had gotten himself lost over enemy territory, against the orders of his C.O., and got shot down because he didn't know where he was, which also speaks worlds about his ability as a soldier. You've listened to the American Media Machine for a little too long. McCain is a 100 million dollar loser. Congrats on your support. You chose wrong.

But...Obama is just as much of an idiot as he is. He's doing his best to sink this country as quick as he can.

[edit on 8-3-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

"This country" is a corporation, he has no choice in whether the country bottoms out or not, whatsoever.

We really should not let Congress pass a single bill that infers to any part of our freedoms being taking away.

Why are they using this Act and Patriot Act against Americans when we aren't the enemy? So now if our enemies do something immoral, somewhow it is our fault too and they pass an Act over all Americans to restrict us as much as they can.

Where is the Supreme Court when our freedoms are taken away? They would overturn this if a corporation was being interrogated and detained unconstitutionally.

I'm pretty sure in their eyes everybody is a terrorist until proven innocent. The more you know about the world the more messed up it gets!

[edit on 8-3-2010 by tooo many pills]

I am not at all a terrorist, I don't even know much about government.

But some of these things scare me...

A) The potential threat the individual poses for an attack on civilians or civilian facilities within the United States or upon United States citizens or United States civilian facilities abroad at the time of capture or when coming under the custody or control of the United States.

B) The potential threat the individual poses to United States military personnel or United States military facilities at the time of capture or when coming under the custody or control of the United States.

C) The potential intelligence value of the individual.

In the past I worked on (peripheral) nuke stuff. I fear the gov watches me. I was working on advanced studies in chem and refining and used to look at sites such as "Refinery Technology On Line" (which I think has been shut down) - this was peoples MS and Phd papers - regular work stuff.

But if they track what you look at, what sort of education and jobs you have......

I fear to post anything on the net anywhere. I don't KNOW anything really - I am a low level grunt - but still - I fear they watch me.

And with gov bureaucracy as it is - I could see being 'picked up' just for having a MS in math.

This stuff scares me. I worked on nuke (energy) stuff - will they come for me?

Jeez - with the high stress jobs coupled with low pay and people screaming at you - I often thought - I studied advanced physics for THIS?

Now in these last few years - I'm pannicky I'm being watched. Can it get any better than this?

I decided that I would go ahead and post on the net - instead of keeping a low profile it might be better if I were 'out of the closet' - and I don't really *know* anything anyway.

I designed peripheral equip for various plants - I don't know anything about the "guts" of the nuke plant (beyond schooling) - I still worry that people watch me.....

Oh I *do* know one secret that the gov probably wants to keep quiet: The Army Corps of Engineers are straight up incompetent. I'd say mentally retarded but that would be an insult to the mentally handicapped. Which are Einsteins compared to them anyway.

Palin just hijacked the tea party movement,....with this law though the potential exists,not good

Originally posted by freeradical1
Palin just hijacked the tea party movement,....with this law though the potential exists,not good

It's not a law; it's a bill/act/statute.



edit to fix

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 8-3-2010 by purplemonkeydishwasher]

[edit on 8-3-2010 by purplemonkeydishwasher]

[edit on 8-3-2010 by purplemonkeydishwasher]

Originally posted by Erasurehead
Another illegal and unconstitutional bill. I am really not surprised anymore.

I was reading the bill and it seems be very vague as to what might make someone an "unprivileged enemy beligerent". Notice the last line (E) that pretty much gives the President the power to lock you up just because he feels like it.

CRITERIA FOR DESIGNATION OF INDIVIDUALS AS HIGH-VALUE DETAINEES.—The regulations required by this subsection shall include criteria for designating an individual as a high-value detainee
based on the following:


D) Membership in al Qaeda or in a terrorist group affiliated with al Qaeda.



assets.theatlantic.com...

The CIA is a terrorist group affiliated with al Qaeda. I wonder if they read the bill?

Originally posted by Shark_Feeder


This is extremely distressing to me. Think about this bill in context with the recent MSM attack on "kooky conspiracy theorists".

Frankly I think the time is coming when our very lives will be threatened by the Feds. I have included a link to the bill itself, in pdf format.

What do you guys think?

www.theatlantic.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

These bills are being put forward and applauded by the police and federal authorities because they know what the future is. Many know that our economy is dead broke and the dollar is going to tank/devalue. When it happens they will need the security apparatus to arrest and detain and "disappear" agitators and people with information about the govt.. The elite and the govt. officials know that in order to protect themselves from the chant of the mob, they will need to focus the countries intelligence and power inward in order to keep order.

Thank you for this link. It is a privilege that the internet has brought to us the ability to see what our government is debating.

Here is the triggering phrase from the link to the bill that interests me: "who is suspected of engaging in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners through an act of terrorism, or by other means in violation of the laws of war, or of purposely and materially supporting such hostilities, and who may be an unprivileged enemy belligerent, the individual shall be placed in military custody"

"The term ‘hostilities’ means any conflict subject to the laws of war, and includes a deliberate attack upon civilians and civilian targets protected by the laws of war."

I will have to do some more research on this. Specifically, could this be used to round up political enemies? I cannot answer that without knowing the definition of "conflict subject to the laws of war." I also do not see a definition of "attack". So far, I am not liking this bill without more definitions of what is being regulated. Perhaps other sections of the code spell this out. Without those definitions, I would say the terms are too vague to properly enforce. Constitutionally speaking, of course.

INAPPLICABILITY OF CERTAIN STATEMENT AND RIGHTS.—A individual who is suspected of being an unprivileged enemy belligerent shall not, during interrogation under this subsection, be provided the statement required by Miranda v. Arizona 10 (384 U.S. 436 (1966)) or otherwise be informed of any rights that the individual may or may not have to counsel or to remain silent consistent with Miranda v. Arizona.

An individual, including a citizen of the United States, determined to be an unprivileged enemy belligerent under section 3(c)(2) in a manner which satisfies Article 5 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War may be detained without criminal charges and without trial for the duration of hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners in which the individual has engaged..

assets.theatlantic.com...

The war on terror has no end so does that mean they can hold people forever? This will never become law as it is written. right??

reply to post by Shark_Feeder


Okay, I did some more scanning and I have a very BIG question for everyone.

This part that I have bolded and underlined.

(1) poses a threat of an attack on civilians or civilian facilities within the U.S. or U.S. facilities abroad; (2) poses a threat to U.S. military personnel or U.S. military facilities; (3)potential intelligence value; (4) is a member of al Qaeda or a terrorist group affiliated with al Qaeda or (5) such other matters as the President considers appropriate.

Now, let us say we here at ATS uncover some high value intelligence, does that mean POOF we disappear?

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


A star for you! Nice to find an awake individual that
must have failed terribly in History class as you just
could not eat the poo.

Does anyone else feel that things are moving incredibly
fast with introduction of bills such as this? It looks like
someone is getting very worried.

this is amazing. no one is interested in the fact that bills/acts and statutes only apply to corporations/fictitious entities known as PERSONS??