A Step Forward for Law Enforcement, and Even Some on ATS will be Happy!

wow how did 2 posts happen

[edit on 3/6/2010 by dashar]

All videos can be edited.

Hollywood does it all of the time.

What about the guy being videoed?

Does he have a right to video for his defense?

In all of the documentaries I have seen where Leos come up to investigate some one doing a private protest and not breaking any laws who are being filmed by the Leos when Joe public raises his camera or video camera all Leos become Alpha Hotel.

The day Joe Public can video back is the day I accept Leos rights to video as the two recordings should tell the same truths!

Perhaps that is why Leos become Alpha Hotels when seeing a camera or video pointing at them as they know they cannot fix theirs to serve their purposes.

I am not talking about the example shown.

I am talking about Joe Public's rights to protest and videos for their protection.

I would really like to hear from you Leos out there why you are so camera shy and thinks its your right to video others.

Also I like to know what give you the right to go Alpha Hotel the moment a camera is pointed at you. There are enough videos in the public domain not to have to prove this point.

Thank you.

reply to post by highlyoriginal


If you are so weak that you allowed a COP to give you legal advice in a court you are too easily led. you should have asked for a LAWYER and stood your ground. The cop CANNOT simply walk up to a prosecutor on court day and ask for a more serious charge than given just to intimidate you...no way. The cop did not show that busted you...in my state that means a dismissal, automatically. No cop can testify for another that was not there, the cop bluffed you and got you to plead...they would have LOST the case if you had told that cop to stick it and gotten an attorney.

NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER believe what a cop says...especially about legal matters. it is like going to the Godfather for advice on how to violate OMERTA !! Would you accept advice on your health from a truck driver? Then why in hell trust a COP to tell the truth? you got GAMED and bluffed...too bad...likley you would have won...thats why the cop didn't show and had his pal intimidate and lie to you. Typical for cops, which is a sick fact but one we must always remember:

Cops do NOT tell the truth to defendants!! NEVER!!

they should give all cops suits made out of explosive materials because they are all devils and oppressors limp # nerdy punks who got picked on during high school and have a grudge against the world i know the type and let me tell you i will never submit to another man under god we are equal maybe not in your mind also i wish to add # you thanks

reply to post by rcwj1975


Well rcwj1975 you may remember me as one of those ATS'ers who is not so inclined to accept your assurances, as a cop, that you are Ms polly-purebred when it comes to civil liberties of citizens. Thanks, for telling us of the new audio/video whiz-bang you are being equipped with.

I would only ask this...Does the officer have the ability to turn off the device at will? If so, then he could conveniently claim it stopped working when he decides to slap someone silly or worse, right?

Listen, if you want to prove to me and others who have questioned your loyalty to this republic, why not join Oath Keepers:

oathkeepers.org...

That way you could state you have taken an oath not obey an order contray to the US Constitution. This would placate many of us who question a cop's true allegence. A good video of the Oath Keepers organization can be viewed here:

www.youtube.com...




[edit on 6-3-2010 by romanmel]

Guys walking at the cop w/ a knife = asking to be shot. Kids get shot with a water gun in their hands.


I can only think of this technology as a way to help the police to commit perjury.

Most cops hate camerqas because of one simple reason: The VAST majority of cops use illegal and devious means to get their busts, and they do not want to be recorded lying, threatening, giving legal advice, intimidating, and worse.

Of COURSE they do not want to be filmed. Would a burglar or rapist want to be recorded all the time? hell NO!! They do NOT want anyone judgeing them...cops believe they are above reproach ( if only that were true ) and that any oversight is too much.

Do you think that Officer jones wants to show up in court and have a defense attorney play abck a tape showing the cop harrassing a motorist for an hour to get a consent request , or showing that the tiny bit of pot was NOT in plain sight but actually hidden...cops RELY on lies, subterfuge and denial to ' get er done' despite the laws. Sickening.

Will recording cops help? Yes, in some cases. but the units must be left on all the time, and if any film turns up blocked at the time of an incident, then the cop MUST be automatically suspended and suspected to have interfered with the equipment until they are shown to be innocent.

It must be ASSUMED that the cops WILL try to stop true and accurate reporting, as they rely so heavily upon extra-legal means to get their numbers. Stopping people with NO REASONABLE suspicion is a hallmark of cops today...they pull up to minoity youth and begin going thru their pockets and later claim that they saw it in plain sight...and of course all other manner of lies.

A COP is the MOST likley person to lie and cover up their ways, so they must always be watched closely lest they subvert the whole system to suit their goals; Unlimited authority, a cowed and subjugated public that will not dare talk back, and supervisiors that wink at all excesses.

and that tells us that it is us against them. Cameras on cops? Great idea as long as other cops are not allowed to alter anything or fail to report illegal actions they see on film.

Just a side not for all of you that may be facing court: A recent Supreme Court decision means that if you are charged witjh some drug offense, or any offense that uses a crime lab for evidence, that you have the right to confront the LAB technician that worked on your sample, to testify about it. They can no longer just give a report and have it assumed that all it contains is accurate. you have the right to question the lab person, and that means that the STATE has to pay to: Take the tech out of the lab and away from work piling up..fly him to your town and put him up and feed him, transport him back and forth to court, and send him home.

If the case is a minor one they will no doubt decide if the cost is worth it, and cases have been dropped already that were not worth all the expense to get a petty misdemeanor convixction. use rights or lose rights!!

I don't need to be recorded while I'm on the clock to prove I'm doing my job right. Am I under the same scrutiny? No, but it really shocks me that all of your co-workers were okay with this.

And the video used to demonstrate this technology? wth!!!

Do you not go through combat training on how to disarm someone with a knife? umm without shooting them dead......

I've got no beef with the police. I have many officers in my family, have lived as neighbors with quite a few and had have generally had very friendly and/or professional interactions. With all of that being said, I recognize that there are bad apples - I hear about them from the people wh are police as well as through the news.

The way I feel about VIDMIC.... it is a VERY good thing. Not only will it keep the very few bad cops honest, it will also help to protect them as well. Most cops can tell you horror stories about the treatment they receive from the public that they are sworn to protect and serve. Hopefully people will treat cops with more respect when they know they're being filmed!

Sounds very good in theory..but that's just theory!

Unfortunately, unless the system is designed so that the officer wearing the device cannot disable it (or just smudge the lens?),the general public will NEVER see the raw footage - just the edited version that the cops want released.

Video cameras on officers will be just as reliable and evidentiary as all those cameras were in the Pentagon on 9/11. In other words - USELESS!

That having been said, Star and Flag for the OP for a good read.

reply to post by rcwj1975

Good Shoot...lol

hmm, that goes against the privacy act.

If a cop witnesses a crime, records it, and tries bringing it to court, they wont allow it to be used as evidence as it basically invades your privacy. cops dont like to be recordedc ause you can use it against them.

Plead the 5th, they cannot use any recorded evidence against you.

Or just get a good lawyer and they can get you off on anything haha , Literally. if the cops not wearing his issued HAT charges are dropped. I've seen it happen, Laws are #ed.

Originally posted by Prime-Vector
hmm, that goes against the privacy act.

If a cop witnesses a crime, records it, and tries bringing it to court, they wont allow it to be used as evidence as it basically invades your privacy. cops dont like to be recordedc ause you can use it against them.

Plead the 5th, they cannot use any recorded evidence against you.

Or just get a good lawyer and they can get you off on anything haha

, Literally. if the cops not wearing his issued HAT charges are dropped. I've seen it happen, Laws are #ed.

you obviously know nothing about the law. People in public places can be filmed, by me or the cops, and there is NO privacy violation. citizens have a legal right to expect privacy, but that diminishes when you leave the home..even less in a car, and walking in public all privacy is lost, as you are voluntarily putting yourself into a public venue.

Undercover cops wear cameras and wires all the time, and the evidence WILL be admitted. do some checking before you make blanket statements that are wrong.

While this might be a good addition in a normal economy I believe most state budgets are getting cut right now. This is a bad time to be adding extra expenses. States are looking to cut costs wherever they can. In my state teachers are facing layoffs along with other government workers. It's just a bad time to increase expenses that aren't necessary. I do wonder if a decent microphone could be made for a lot less than $700. That appears to be a very high price.

Is there anyway the officer can just delete certain parts of what it records?

Good Points:
Tougher for a "bad" Cop to get away with something, but a lot of Plain Clothes Officers that may have corruped morals would still continue their bad habits



Bad Points:
An Officer's Plain Sight does not require a warrant should he see or witness a criminal act or some sort of contraband; however, after reviewing the video tape, if the officer did not spot the item of interest with his inital presence, say for example in a residence, then they go back to get it, is it now considered probable cause? Would a Warrant need to be obtained at that point?

Does the video inside a residence become public property for all to see?
It should not be subjected to public viewing because a residence is considered a private area with expectations of privacy unless invited.


I'm actually Pro Law Enforcement; and have been trained in for such a career; however, I saw I was oriented on the electronic side and had a stronger skill set for electronics and specialized communications, so it is easy to look at this new technology from a evidence point of view.

Although not a police officer, I was involved in PRIVATE law enforcement for Federal Canadian agencies. I absolutely LOVE cameras, especially if people do not know where they are located. With that in mind, ANYTHING can be manipulated. I thought it was illegal to have sound AND video at the same time, i thought it could only be one or the other...but then again in the U.S it might be different...

So many times have I seen a LEO get carried away with my arrests (LEOs pick up my arrests to take em into custody since I was unable to leave my post). I remember once a known Crack dealer (who was also a user...did not work out well) attempted to gain entry onto my site through picking locks or trying to break (bulletproof) windows. I just watched him do everything on camera and called for backup while I was watching him break in. As I see he is about to have success at opening an entry point, I decide to meet him at the next door he has to go through. As he opens the door I surprised him, he fell back, I get on top of him to put him in cuffs for my safety (previous incidents he was very aggressive, on crack). As I tried cuffing him he attempted to bite me and a struggle ensued as I tried to back away from his teeth (he was Hep positive). I was only able to get one cuff on one arm so I took the other cuff and cuffed him to the handle of the door he just opened. My backup came just seconds later, just in time too see him attempting to bite me again. I told him to just relax, gave him some water, and told him he was in custody for attempted break in to a federal building.
So while me and my supervisor were waiting for the LEO to show up, we were discussing what had happened. When the officer came, my supervisor told him my story, and the officer got particularly upset that he tried to bite me. So what he did was uncuff him from my cuffs, put em into his. Gave me back my cuffs and started heading to his cruiser with the guy.
I guess the LEO didnt know about the camera that was facing the outside where he exited. His vehicle was in the perfect field of vision.
Now what happens next is very sad. He took the suspect to his cruiser, pulled down his pants and pushed him up against his car. He then took his expandable baton and he raped him with it. When he was done he chucked it (because he knew the guy was sick).
Although the person in custody is known to LEOs as a crack dealer and such, I whole heatedly was very shocked and scared that a LEO would do such a thing to another person. So I went out there, as I found this infuriating. I told the LEO he was on camera, and I pointed to it. He went white as a ghost.
The guy was crying and shaking on the ground. I gave the officer my two cents of my mind, and advised him that I will not hesitate to mention the abusive rape of the person in custody in my paper work. I got his badge number and cruiser number. I told him to think hard about what he did...
Let's just say that the officer was let go, and the crackhead never came back around my site ever again.

Originally posted by colt122
Now if we can get rid of the corrupt government you work for

and all its employees...
yes including you

Im sure when change happens(and it will) the new government in charge might like this...

I will be happy when all you police and bankers are brought to justice.
The peoples justice....you know the kind......I think they tossed ropes over lamposts to deal with scum like you.
Carry guns for tyrants and expect mercy?

[edit on 6-3-2010 by colt122]

Awesome...so you advocate hanging me? Wait, let me guess, your the answer to all of Americas problems right? You can solve al problems, you can handle all situations? By this post alone I should of seen your the next superhero America needs: It's a bird, it's a plane, NO, its A@@SANDWICH to the resuce...now america will be safe!!!

Originally posted by itsawild1
pigs are pigs always, this will not weed out the crooked, it will make the crooked more crooked since they will use it to extort-bare false witness.
all police are complicent to what is going on in the world. they are all cowards for their jobs. Did the national police union call for a 911 investigation that was real=no-why ? because the higher ups in the unions control all pigs. the government controls all pigs.
DONT the pigs evict people from their homes for the crooked banks?? Dont the pigs turn a blind eye to drunk drivers and people on the road under the influnce?? While they say they fight the war on drugs . hippocrits. Dont they say they love the war on drugs when a bar is on every corner?? Dont the pigs get away with # we all would be arested for?? Dont the pigs always abuse their power? Will not the pigs help the government repress free speach at any rally or protest when it is supposed to be our right--PIGS
I have seen alot of praise the pig posts-poor cop posts, well i am taught that the pigs will help the government supress the people always because all are delusional about their job, afraid to lose their job, afraid to lose their pention, so they are all cowards to the real american. Its easy to hero worship the soldier and some of these other pigs , it takes real thinking to weed out the real objectives of this hero worship I have seen manny videos of pigs punching , kicking, rough handling of ordinary citizens to classify them all as terrorist organization. Any organization that goes against the constitutional laws and bill of rights is a terrorist organization. Simply should be disbanded. Should be re-built from the bottom up. The new world order already has them all by the balls and uses them for their gain-not for the protection of the people. WHEN or if marshal law comes the pigs will all be hiding and leaving us to are selves, along with their little citizen spies they all use now-yes thats right , they all have their little group of spies they PAY .
You people dont know your god given rights--they dont protect them-they fight against them----the hero worship of the pig is a false religion simply put. The after life will have very few pigs there. go read the bible and find out the pigs role in the end days we are in. THEY WILL ONLY HELP SUPRESS THE PEOPLE.

I love when people are so willing to put their IQ into paragraph form. Bottom line, disband police and people like you will be the ones that have people screaming to bring us back...FAST!

Originally posted by Doc Holiday
When does the "right to remain silent" take affect?
after you are told about said right? or upon 1st contact with an LEO?

The right to remain silent comes into play during a few situations.

1. A casual encounter: That means I have no reasonable suspicion to talk to you, or probable cause to stop you, but decide I do want to basically say hi. I walk up and say hi man, can I talk to you for a second? You have two choices REMAIN SILENT, or agree to talk to me. This encounter pretty much means you can walk away at anytime and don't even need to identify who you are.

2. Terry Stop: That means I have reasonable suspicion something is going on or about to happen and I decide to step in. In this case you DO have to identify yourself and answer some questions. SCOTUS agrees, but again this is questioning that leads to the suspicious behavior since an outright crime hasn't been committed per say.

3. An Arrest: Obviously I need probable cause to arrest and charge you. Once this is done you HAVE to answer basic questions for me, but before I start asking you specifics about the crime in which I am charging you for, I have to read you miranda rights. (I do not have to read them at all unless I plan to question you further). Once Miranda is read you again have the right to REMAIN SILENT.

So now you know..lol

Great new technology. Be sure, when you are issued it, that you don't be bullied into covering the video camera with tape so that your hot headed partner can kick someones ass. Guarenteed, this type of manipulation will happen. Not saying this technology is a bad idea, but unless it going to be 100% tamperproof, your agency might want to reconsider it's implementation until that guarenteed is satisfied. Am I right ATSers???