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a revolutionary party
page: 2share:
I suspect there are groups of people very quietly planning for revolution, but I doubt they would be successful. They would be domestic
terrorists.
Think of some of the things done during the Revolution. Tarring and feathering someone is celebrated as historical protest, but it would be considered the sickest form of twisted assault today. We live in a docile society, encouraged to be servile and efficient. I'm not saying the other way was better, but it was different.
As for forming other parties, the problem is that everyone used to being excluded from the process takes such comfort in their own certitude that you have parties of just a few people, convinced their right, and not caring to build the base needed to win. The amoral pragmatism of the current two parties in America wins out for a reason; people aren't as ideological as believers would wish.
That said, I think if people learned to look beyond parties and just vote for individuals, it would be a really good step. That, and weaken some of these institutions. If you have a ton of friends, and want to make a difference, go do some research and let people know what happens with government. All these things need to happen, but too often they don't.
Think of some of the things done during the Revolution. Tarring and feathering someone is celebrated as historical protest, but it would be considered the sickest form of twisted assault today. We live in a docile society, encouraged to be servile and efficient. I'm not saying the other way was better, but it was different.
As for forming other parties, the problem is that everyone used to being excluded from the process takes such comfort in their own certitude that you have parties of just a few people, convinced their right, and not caring to build the base needed to win. The amoral pragmatism of the current two parties in America wins out for a reason; people aren't as ideological as believers would wish.
That said, I think if people learned to look beyond parties and just vote for individuals, it would be a really good step. That, and weaken some of these institutions. If you have a ton of friends, and want to make a difference, go do some research and let people know what happens with government. All these things need to happen, but too often they don't.
This country would end up under a dictatorship. Promising that freedoms would return to us one day, but that day would never come. --- PATRIOT Act
need i explain more? ok here Son of PATRIOT Act coming soon.
None of you would have what it takes to run a government if for some odd reason you did manage to overthrow the United States. --- so George Washington was quailfied??
the exact same goal as Al Qaeda. --- the enemy of my enemy is my friend. thats one way to see it, the other is if in fact i and others have the exact same goal as Al Qaeda then they are no longer a problem now are they?
and for the last part lets clear this up about all this killing you keep talking about. You are the one talking about killing everyday people for no reason. you sir are DIS-INFO AGENT. to be against revolution is to be UN-AMERICAN. in all our movies and literature being a revolutionist is what AMERICA is all about. i think the OP has the right idea, on the other hand you do nothing but spout off how bad others ideas are so whats that say about you?
look in the mirror, thats where your enemy is.
None of you would have what it takes to run a government if for some odd reason you did manage to overthrow the United States. --- so George Washington was quailfied??
the exact same goal as Al Qaeda. --- the enemy of my enemy is my friend. thats one way to see it, the other is if in fact i and others have the exact same goal as Al Qaeda then they are no longer a problem now are they?
and for the last part lets clear this up about all this killing you keep talking about. You are the one talking about killing everyday people for no reason. you sir are DIS-INFO AGENT. to be against revolution is to be UN-AMERICAN. in all our movies and literature being a revolutionist is what AMERICA is all about. i think the OP has the right idea, on the other hand you do nothing but spout off how bad others ideas are so whats that say about you?
look in the mirror, thats where your enemy is.
reply to post by Pewbert
It's hard to tell what you are talking about if you don't use the quote function. Being able to express yourself clearly might be the first step in gaining credibility for your cause.
In the boxes above the post box; click the yellow one to put the stuff you want to quote. Or at least use this "--------" so we know who is saying what.
It's hard to tell what you are talking about if you don't use the quote function. Being able to express yourself clearly might be the first step in gaining credibility for your cause.
In the boxes above the post box; click the yellow one to put the stuff you want to quote. Or at least use this "--------" so we know who is saying what.
reply to post by jam321
Yes. We do think the government is THAT messed up if I may speak for everyone in the same shoes as I.
None of my relatives are politicians, so I'm not sure where that is coming from, and as a matter of fact, I don't remember voting for ANY of the people that are in office right now. Funny thing how that "democracy" works - liberty to all, except the minorities.
reply to post by oppaperclip
As squeaky clean as a "Constitutionalists Party" sounds, it has been done before and with very little results. You have to understand that this system we are in is designed to swallow 3rd party contenders whole. To actually think you stand a chance against the 2 party system is the ideals they let you believe, however, when push comes to shove, there IS NO chance.
reply to post by jam321
Yes, I see where you are coming now. I DO have relatives who WORK for the government, but I'm sure 99% of the people we know in government have no sway in decisions. My aunt is an accountant as far as I'm aware, and while she may get to speak directly to politicians if she chooses, that isn't going to change how they work.
We do have the power to change this system, but as you said, we refuse to do it. A revolution would cause people to wake up en masse and when they are affected, they will have no choice but to stand up and choose a side. That is the only thing good about the revolution. Well, besides the end result.
reply to post by urwatu8
Evolution is not always a good thing. While the Constitution as a whole is very good (besides the removal of the original 13th amendment) the system itself is corrupt and biased. It evolved alright, but it wasn't to benefit the common man. Most laws outside the scope of the Constitution are unconstitutional in nature yet they are ignored. Even evolution has its boundaries.
When I think revolution I don't think "throw everything away and start again" I think "throw everything away except the necessities and start again" that way with proper nurturing and guidance, the country can grow to what the Constitution intended.
reply to post by Southern Guardian
The same old arguments from the same old Southern Guardian. Allow me to touch base on a few of your points.
I think not. These representatives are no "Constitutionally elected" and if you need to I shall provide sources as to why. They are psuedo-Democratically elected. We are given choices based on status and wealth and forced to choose between (usually) two bad candidates. That isn't CHOICE, it is the illusion of choice.
If the Constitution were followed, hook and key, then not only would the people get to directly vote for the politicians, BUT no longer would people be swayed by the media or the wealth of the running politicians. With a much larger pool to choose from, I think it would be easier to tell who actually cares about America and the people, and who is in it for the money and power.
I suppose the resounding "NO!" to the bailout or healthcare overhauls, from the overwhelming majority of people, these are simply liberal/conservative issues? Yet they ignore us here as well? It is clear to me that these politicians believe us incapable of making our own decisions and thus would choose to make it for us.
What do you suppose we do? When us voters voice our opinion at town hall meetings, we get silenced or escorted away. When we send letters, we receive automated replies and no action. When we vote them out of office, they are replaced with carbon copies, sometimes hiding under the guise of change but in reality, no different.
You are right, the system is far beyond "corrupt politicians" it has become a "corrupt system" in general. Thus, the only way to make and result in a system that militantly protects itself, is to throw the corruption out, and replace it with the system that it was supposed to be.
The Constitution. It worked before the people allowed it to be trodden upon. You can consider myself and others a watchdog of that document, to make sure that under the new (old) system, it doesn't get trodden upon again.
reply to post by whatukno
Pew! Pew! Pew! Blowing people away since 1988!
/sarcasm
I'm going to choose not to argue your points since I have already... countless times.
reply to post by Pewbert
Don't even try to argue with him. No matter what you say you will forever be a "Neo Nazi waiting to kill innocent people". There is no getting over that with him.
reply to post by whaaa
You know it is funny you mention all that stuff that keeps people sleeping because in my first plan I mentioned on ATS, the first course of action is to cut of the cable. Whatever would people do? They would go wild. They would probably take their beer, sit on their front porch, and listen to the game on the radio.
Of course by that point, while sitting on their front porch, they shall see people walking by. With their interest piqued they might ask "Why?" and who knows what happens next!
Yes. We do think the government is THAT messed up if I may speak for everyone in the same shoes as I.
None of my relatives are politicians, so I'm not sure where that is coming from, and as a matter of fact, I don't remember voting for ANY of the people that are in office right now. Funny thing how that "democracy" works - liberty to all, except the minorities.
reply to post by oppaperclip
As squeaky clean as a "Constitutionalists Party" sounds, it has been done before and with very little results. You have to understand that this system we are in is designed to swallow 3rd party contenders whole. To actually think you stand a chance against the 2 party system is the ideals they let you believe, however, when push comes to shove, there IS NO chance.
reply to post by jam321
Yes, I see where you are coming now. I DO have relatives who WORK for the government, but I'm sure 99% of the people we know in government have no sway in decisions. My aunt is an accountant as far as I'm aware, and while she may get to speak directly to politicians if she chooses, that isn't going to change how they work.
We do have the power to change this system, but as you said, we refuse to do it. A revolution would cause people to wake up en masse and when they are affected, they will have no choice but to stand up and choose a side. That is the only thing good about the revolution. Well, besides the end result.
reply to post by urwatu8
Evolution is not always a good thing. While the Constitution as a whole is very good (besides the removal of the original 13th amendment) the system itself is corrupt and biased. It evolved alright, but it wasn't to benefit the common man. Most laws outside the scope of the Constitution are unconstitutional in nature yet they are ignored. Even evolution has its boundaries.
When I think revolution I don't think "throw everything away and start again" I think "throw everything away except the necessities and start again" that way with proper nurturing and guidance, the country can grow to what the Constitution intended.
reply to post by Southern Guardian
The same old arguments from the same old Southern Guardian. Allow me to touch base on a few of your points.
Some violent revolution to overthrow constitutionally elected representitives will not solve the current crises and disconnect we have with DC. Ultimately, as Jam stated so clearly, we will end up with the issues of the very representitives we replaced with.
I think not. These representatives are no "Constitutionally elected" and if you need to I shall provide sources as to why. They are psuedo-Democratically elected. We are given choices based on status and wealth and forced to choose between (usually) two bad candidates. That isn't CHOICE, it is the illusion of choice.
If the Constitution were followed, hook and key, then not only would the people get to directly vote for the politicians, BUT no longer would people be swayed by the media or the wealth of the running politicians. With a much larger pool to choose from, I think it would be easier to tell who actually cares about America and the people, and who is in it for the money and power.
While we can argue our politicians have not being representing our interests there are a number of factors you must understand:
I suppose the resounding "NO!" to the bailout or healthcare overhauls, from the overwhelming majority of people, these are simply liberal/conservative issues? Yet they ignore us here as well? It is clear to me that these politicians believe us incapable of making our own decisions and thus would choose to make it for us.
So the people themselves are not holding DC accountable and are not coming to terms with the reality of differences in views around the nation. This isnt just about 'corrupt politicians' as the issue goes far more wider than that. Its also about the voters holding their representitives accountable, and turning off the talking heads that tell them not to.
What do you suppose we do? When us voters voice our opinion at town hall meetings, we get silenced or escorted away. When we send letters, we receive automated replies and no action. When we vote them out of office, they are replaced with carbon copies, sometimes hiding under the guise of change but in reality, no different.
You are right, the system is far beyond "corrupt politicians" it has become a "corrupt system" in general. Thus, the only way to make and result in a system that militantly protects itself, is to throw the corruption out, and replace it with the system that it was supposed to be.
The Constitution. It worked before the people allowed it to be trodden upon. You can consider myself and others a watchdog of that document, to make sure that under the new (old) system, it doesn't get trodden upon again.
reply to post by whatukno
Pew! Pew! Pew! Blowing people away since 1988!
/sarcasm
I'm going to choose not to argue your points since I have already... countless times.
reply to post by Pewbert
Don't even try to argue with him. No matter what you say you will forever be a "Neo Nazi waiting to kill innocent people". There is no getting over that with him.
reply to post by whaaa
You know it is funny you mention all that stuff that keeps people sleeping because in my first plan I mentioned on ATS, the first course of action is to cut of the cable. Whatever would people do? They would go wild. They would probably take their beer, sit on their front porch, and listen to the game on the radio.
Of course by that point, while sitting on their front porch, they shall see people walking by. With their interest piqued they might ask "Why?" and who knows what happens next!
thanks gwydionblack
i kinda figured that after his second post, but there was much left to giggle about.
as far as end game, all powers of government should be at the local level and not at the state or fed. you trust people you know. the only fed we need is military. as far as state, they should handle resources. everything else should be local.
if you don't like the local GOV, move to one that suits you better. thats the way it should be, well it was up until telephones/airplanes.
i kinda figured that after his second post, but there was much left to giggle about.
as far as end game, all powers of government should be at the local level and not at the state or fed. you trust people you know. the only fed we need is military. as far as state, they should handle resources. everything else should be local.
if you don't like the local GOV, move to one that suits you better. thats the way it should be, well it was up until telephones/airplanes.
Originally posted by Kurt Turner
I personally am sick of our government and just about everything they do. I have thought about a revolution but after the revolution then what? I have a feeling that if there where a revolution then someone would try to take power like a dictator or we would end up with the same or different problems maybe worse than the ones we have now. I do think that something needs to change but it isn't bad enough for a revolution. At least not yet it isn't
Exactly...and people are mad at the feds for different reasons...Liberals are mad at congress/Obama because they are NOT LIBERAL ENOUGH! If they joined the cause they would want it to be like russian revolution, turning us into a communist nation. Others would want a new government system, some just think the current government just needs to be shrunk a bit....
reply to post by gwydionblack
gwydionblack...once more I must call you out.
You have said yourself that you have never voted. You have said yourself that you are 21 years old...so 4 years of eligible voting...but have chosen not to.
So after 4 years of eligible voting and chosing not to...your only solution is still violent revolution??? That doesn't make sense.
WHAT???? The Constitution is good...except for ABOLISHING SLAVERY????
My doubts are now confirmed.
This along with "all men are free and government laws are oppresive, but all illegals need to be deported"....I am hearing loud and clear your message. And I don't think I'm alone.
[edit on 4-3-2010 by OutKast Searcher]
gwydionblack...once more I must call you out.
None of my relatives are politicians, so I'm not sure where that is coming from, and as a matter of fact, I don't remember voting for ANY of the people that are in office right now. Funny thing how that "democracy" works - liberty to all, except the minorities.
You have said yourself that you have never voted. You have said yourself that you are 21 years old...so 4 years of eligible voting...but have chosen not to.
So after 4 years of eligible voting and chosing not to...your only solution is still violent revolution??? That doesn't make sense.
While the Constitution as a whole is very good (besides the removal of the original 13th amendment)
WHAT???? The Constitution is good...except for ABOLISHING SLAVERY????
My doubts are now confirmed.
This along with "all men are free and government laws are oppresive, but all illegals need to be deported"....I am hearing loud and clear your message. And I don't think I'm alone.
[edit on 4-3-2010 by OutKast Searcher]
The most important right/freedom is for those who have knowledge to contribute it to social discourse without being annoyed; democracies interpret
this in a conflict-oriented scenario through "free speech" but it is more effective in government to avoid biased conflict and instead to take a
contributive viewpoint: wise leaders listen to their people and allow them a public forum in which rewards more truthful ideas and ignores insanity,
selfishness and unecessary conflict. Paradoxically, democracies by the very nature of their rewarding popular ideas and not truthful ones, strangle
all actual criticism of the course of a society while allowing "criticism" that changes details but not the overall path.
I am sick of our government as well
But more than our government, i'm sick of any two-bit person who comes along and says "LET US REVOLT"
Seriously?
Have you given ANY thought to consequences of that at all?
I like my life. I like not being in prison.
You revolt.
But more than our government, i'm sick of any two-bit person who comes along and says "LET US REVOLT"
Seriously?
Have you given ANY thought to consequences of that at all?
I like my life. I like not being in prison.
You revolt.
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
Once again, you choose to STALK and TARGET me... wrongfully I might add.
4 years of not voting, is 4 years where my vote would have wrongfully been counted. I refuse to take part in a system that has already proven itself impenetrable from moral means. I have chosen not to vote in those 4 years because A. I was not politically savvy until I was 19, and B. anyone who I would have voted for would have been a write in candidate that was in a grand gesture, not included in the polling. This is what most voters would call "throwing your vote away". I choose not to waste my time. I don't see anyone on my ballots representing the Constitution so I am not going to vote for someone unless they are actually good for the country - not just because they are the lesser of two evils.
The knowledge of our Constitution you have astounds me. Maybe if you people would open your ears and eyes once, you wouldn't be trodden on by our government and you would actually stand a chance. Instead, let us just make things up, or ignore others.
AHEM! Allow me to repeat my quote.
And now me to repeat my quote with some bolding and capitalization to emphasize the point you are missing. Oh yeah, this is the part that has absolutely NOTHING to do with slavery I might add.
Not allow me to give you the benefit of the doubt and consider you actualy didn't know about the ORIGINAL 13th amendment and instead educate you on such. Perhaps you could be so kind as to spread the word to you other fellows who would choose to follow me and other revolutionaries around and spout how we "want slavery" and "hate black people". Do keep note that never, ever, ever, ever, did I say "EVER" have I nor anyone else advocating the Constitution asked for the REMOVAL of the CURRENT 13TH AMENDMENT, but have chosen the ADDITION of the ORIGINAL 13th amendment.
Please - educate yourself.
The Original 13th Article of Amendment
TONA Research Committee
Now kindly refrain from claiming that I would like to reinstate slavery, because I can assure you that I am very much against it. I simply wish it to become the 14 amendment.
Once again, you choose to STALK and TARGET me... wrongfully I might add.
You have said yourself that you have never voted. You have said yourself that you are 21 years old...so 4 years of eligible voting...but have chosen not to.
4 years of not voting, is 4 years where my vote would have wrongfully been counted. I refuse to take part in a system that has already proven itself impenetrable from moral means. I have chosen not to vote in those 4 years because A. I was not politically savvy until I was 19, and B. anyone who I would have voted for would have been a write in candidate that was in a grand gesture, not included in the polling. This is what most voters would call "throwing your vote away". I choose not to waste my time. I don't see anyone on my ballots representing the Constitution so I am not going to vote for someone unless they are actually good for the country - not just because they are the lesser of two evils.
WHAT???? The Constitution is good...except for ABOLISHING SLAVERY???? My doubts are now confirmed.
The knowledge of our Constitution you have astounds me. Maybe if you people would open your ears and eyes once, you wouldn't be trodden on by our government and you would actually stand a chance. Instead, let us just make things up, or ignore others.
AHEM! Allow me to repeat my quote.
While the Constitution as a whole is very good (besides the removal of the original 13th amendment)
And now me to repeat my quote with some bolding and capitalization to emphasize the point you are missing. Oh yeah, this is the part that has absolutely NOTHING to do with slavery I might add.
While the Constitution as a whole is very good (besides the removal of the ORIGINAL 13th amendment)
Not allow me to give you the benefit of the doubt and consider you actualy didn't know about the ORIGINAL 13th amendment and instead educate you on such. Perhaps you could be so kind as to spread the word to you other fellows who would choose to follow me and other revolutionaries around and spout how we "want slavery" and "hate black people". Do keep note that never, ever, ever, ever, did I say "EVER" have I nor anyone else advocating the Constitution asked for the REMOVAL of the CURRENT 13TH AMENDMENT, but have chosen the ADDITION of the ORIGINAL 13th amendment.
Please - educate yourself.
The Original 13th Article of Amendment
TONA Research Committee
Now kindly refrain from claiming that I would like to reinstate slavery, because I can assure you that I am very much against it. I simply wish it to become the 14 amendment.
reply to post by gwydionblack
Ok, let's see if we get your point right, you not only want to start killing Americans, you also want to replace the current 13th amendment with one that would in essence allow our government to strip a person of their citizenship. (so therefore they would have no rights under the constitution) and so they wouldn't be able to enjoy the protections under what you would consider the 14th amendment, so therefore you do condone slavery.
Not only that, but you also want to take away another constitutional amendment as well. I don't think you are a stupid person by any stretch of the word, because the removal of the 14th Amendment would go far for you to be able to run your little coup d'etat.
Very smart indeed. Not only do you want a workaround to force a person into slavery, you also want to make sure that you and your little revolutionist buddies are able to hold office because the current 14th Amendment would prohibit that.
So how far does it go? How much of the constitution do you really want to change? I think that it's you who aren't being honest with us.
You claim you want to return to the constitution, but you refuse to vote, and you want to change that constitution to suit your whims.
Slaughtering Americans, reinstating slavery, making sure that insurrectionists and western jihadists such as yourself are able to hold office. In my opinion, you don't want to fix this country, you want it to be torn asunder. With life liberty and the pursuit of happiness only for those that fit your narrow view of what's right.
Ok, let's see if we get your point right, you not only want to start killing Americans, you also want to replace the current 13th amendment with one that would in essence allow our government to strip a person of their citizenship. (so therefore they would have no rights under the constitution) and so they wouldn't be able to enjoy the protections under what you would consider the 14th amendment, so therefore you do condone slavery.
Not only that, but you also want to take away another constitutional amendment as well. I don't think you are a stupid person by any stretch of the word, because the removal of the 14th Amendment would go far for you to be able to run your little coup d'etat.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Very smart indeed. Not only do you want a workaround to force a person into slavery, you also want to make sure that you and your little revolutionist buddies are able to hold office because the current 14th Amendment would prohibit that.
So how far does it go? How much of the constitution do you really want to change? I think that it's you who aren't being honest with us.
You claim you want to return to the constitution, but you refuse to vote, and you want to change that constitution to suit your whims.
Slaughtering Americans, reinstating slavery, making sure that insurrectionists and western jihadists such as yourself are able to hold office. In my opinion, you don't want to fix this country, you want it to be torn asunder. With life liberty and the pursuit of happiness only for those that fit your narrow view of what's right.
Does anyone else on ATS have any backbone, or am I honestly the only one here defending against these lunatics? Anyone, feel free to chime in at any
time.
reply to post by whatukno
I don't feel like answering you, so instead I am just going to quote what you said and label it wrong, since I didn't say any of it.
WRONG.
WRONG.
WRONG. Ugh... the current 13th doesn't just abolish slavery for citizens, it abolished slavery for EVERYONE. Shows how much you know your Constitution.
WRONG. Never said about removing anything.
WRONG. Where to begin on this doozy... 1st of all, reread that amendment again, or more specifically - one part. This is where knowing how the English language works would behoove you.
Take out the reference in between and you have:
having previously taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same (THE CONSTITUTION), or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof (THE CONSTITUTION).
First of all, I have never taken an oath to protect the Constitution. I consider it a personal responsibility. Secondly, I am no rebelling or insurrecting against the Constitution, I am rebelling and insurrecting IN FAVOR of it. If you want to take the 14th Amendment by YOUR understanding - then every single person in Congress today who has supported legislation against the Constitution - is violating this amendment and thus violating the Constitution TWICE!
Besides renumbering a few of the amendments to fit in with the addition of the ORIGINAL 13th amendment that was removed, I don't want to change anything. Of course me telling you this doesn't mean anything because you are simply going to ignore it regardless.
ERRRRR. WRONG AGAIN!
Yeah you summer it up real nice... I mean !! OH NOES! YOU OUSTED US!!!
Oh wait...
Nope...
WRONG!
Obviously in your world, YOUR OPINION overthrows all senses of truth, logic, and fact, so no doubt YOUR OPINION is going to be heralded over all other forces in the universe, at least in your mind.
This is all that I see when you post. It says quite a lot, but absolutely nothing of substance comes out of it. Why don't you go find some other user to harass because I promise you, you aren't going to get to me. You aren't going to get me to stop. You aren't going to get me to change my views on what this country needs.
Get. Over. Yourself. Perhaps when you lose your little election this November, some common sense will be knocked into your brain. We can only hope.
reply to post by whatukno
I don't feel like answering you, so instead I am just going to quote what you said and label it wrong, since I didn't say any of it.
you not only want to start killing Americans
WRONG.
want to replace the current 13th amendment
WRONG.
therefore you do condone slavery.
WRONG. Ugh... the current 13th doesn't just abolish slavery for citizens, it abolished slavery for EVERYONE. Shows how much you know your Constitution.
you also want to take away another constitutional amendment as well
WRONG. Never said about removing anything.
want to make sure that you and your little revolutionist buddies are able to hold office because the current 14th Amendment would prohibit that.
WRONG. Where to begin on this doozy... 1st of all, reread that amendment again, or more specifically - one part. This is where knowing how the English language works would behoove you.
having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.
Take out the reference in between and you have:
having previously taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same (THE CONSTITUTION), or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof (THE CONSTITUTION).
First of all, I have never taken an oath to protect the Constitution. I consider it a personal responsibility. Secondly, I am no rebelling or insurrecting against the Constitution, I am rebelling and insurrecting IN FAVOR of it. If you want to take the 14th Amendment by YOUR understanding - then every single person in Congress today who has supported legislation against the Constitution - is violating this amendment and thus violating the Constitution TWICE!
How much of the constitution do you really want to change?
Besides renumbering a few of the amendments to fit in with the addition of the ORIGINAL 13th amendment that was removed, I don't want to change anything. Of course me telling you this doesn't mean anything because you are simply going to ignore it regardless.
You claim you want to return to the constitution, but you refuse to vote, and you want to change that constitution to suit your whims.
ERRRRR. WRONG AGAIN!
Slaughtering Americans, reinstating slavery, making sure that insurrectionists and western jihadists such as yourself are able to hold office.
Yeah you summer it up real nice... I mean !! OH NOES! YOU OUSTED US!!!
Oh wait...
Nope...
WRONG!
In my opinion,
Obviously in your world, YOUR OPINION overthrows all senses of truth, logic, and fact, so no doubt YOUR OPINION is going to be heralded over all other forces in the universe, at least in your mind.
With life liberty and the pursuit of happiness only for those that fit your narrow view of what's right.
This is all that I see when you post. It says quite a lot, but absolutely nothing of substance comes out of it. Why don't you go find some other user to harass because I promise you, you aren't going to get to me. You aren't going to get me to stop. You aren't going to get me to change my views on what this country needs.
Get. Over. Yourself. Perhaps when you lose your little election this November, some common sense will be knocked into your brain. We can only hope.
reply to post by gwydionblack
Wow mate, I thought you were out of your mind before but seriously, do you actually believe all of these things? Please tell me you don't!
The not voting, that rationale was very odd. Instead of assuming that since your candidate will not get elected why not go out and bring awareness to him or her? Campaign for the people you feel passionately about. Also you're waiveing your right to be heard in political elections then advocating a violent revolution? Really?
As for the "original" 13th Amendment, now let us take a simple hypothetical situation: I am not a United States citizen, but my wife is. If she were given an honour by the queen, here in the United Kingdom, her US citizenship would be revoked even though she was born and raised in California? Why? What would this do other than possibly create a lot of people who suddenly have citizenship nowhere.
Wow mate, I thought you were out of your mind before but seriously, do you actually believe all of these things? Please tell me you don't!
The not voting, that rationale was very odd. Instead of assuming that since your candidate will not get elected why not go out and bring awareness to him or her? Campaign for the people you feel passionately about. Also you're waiveing your right to be heard in political elections then advocating a violent revolution? Really?
As for the "original" 13th Amendment, now let us take a simple hypothetical situation: I am not a United States citizen, but my wife is. If she were given an honour by the queen, here in the United Kingdom, her US citizenship would be revoked even though she was born and raised in California? Why? What would this do other than possibly create a lot of people who suddenly have citizenship nowhere.
reply to post by ProjectJimmy
I do. Just because I do not participate in the voting does not mean I am not politically inclined. As I tell everybody, just because you know me on ATS for the entire sum of 6-8 months or so, does not mean you know me in real life.
I am a huge supporter of Constitutionalists and some Libertarian candidates in Pennsylvania. I do what I can, I make posters, I spread the word, and I write to local newspapers to include them since they only choose to include republican and democrat candidates. In some cases I am forced to simply mention candidates in the public announcement sections. I do what I can and so do many other people. But, it isn't enough. My one vote does not make the difference, I promise you.
Your hypothetical situation is moot. Being knighted or something equivalent by today's standards gives no person greater rights or privileges. The amendment refers to people being given titles to allow them to be considered "higher" then the common man or exempt from the laws of the common man.
It was also to eliminate "emoluments" in the form of bribes that would further the agenda of special interest groups. Sound familiar to anybody?
The amendment was ratified and just prior to the introduction of the current 13th amendment, was quietly removed from all records. It was never repealed by Congress or anything of the sort, it was simply removed.
By having this amendment reinstated and clarified, it would eliminate under fear of losing ones citizenship, the lobbyist bribes that control Washington D.C. Is there anyone, besides the special interests that they represent, who actually wants this to continue?
The not voting, that rationale was very odd. Instead of assuming that since your candidate will not get elected why not go out and bring awareness to him or her?
I do. Just because I do not participate in the voting does not mean I am not politically inclined. As I tell everybody, just because you know me on ATS for the entire sum of 6-8 months or so, does not mean you know me in real life.
I am a huge supporter of Constitutionalists and some Libertarian candidates in Pennsylvania. I do what I can, I make posters, I spread the word, and I write to local newspapers to include them since they only choose to include republican and democrat candidates. In some cases I am forced to simply mention candidates in the public announcement sections. I do what I can and so do many other people. But, it isn't enough. My one vote does not make the difference, I promise you.
As for the "original" 13th Amendment, now let us take a simple hypothetical situation
Your hypothetical situation is moot. Being knighted or something equivalent by today's standards gives no person greater rights or privileges. The amendment refers to people being given titles to allow them to be considered "higher" then the common man or exempt from the laws of the common man.
It was also to eliminate "emoluments" in the form of bribes that would further the agenda of special interest groups. Sound familiar to anybody?
The amendment was ratified and just prior to the introduction of the current 13th amendment, was quietly removed from all records. It was never repealed by Congress or anything of the sort, it was simply removed.
By having this amendment reinstated and clarified, it would eliminate under fear of losing ones citizenship, the lobbyist bribes that control Washington D.C. Is there anyone, besides the special interests that they represent, who actually wants this to continue?
reply to post by gwydionblack
Your one vote, along with millions of other people's one vote does make a difference. Your living under the fallacy that no other person but a candidate that is Republican or Democrat can be elected to office. It's simply not true.
Lobby groups while destructive to our republic cannot give titles of nobility, plus the fact that they are indeed constitutional.
So your little lie here is shown for what it is. As I said before, I don't believe you are stupid by any stretch of the word. You want to strip people of their citizenship, and enslave those same people. You just want a legal way to do it. As most of us are aware, this "original" 13th amendment would make it illegal to have the title ESQ. in ones name. Many many lawyers use that absurd little title, because it dates back to the original BAR association of England, I am sure that you are aware of this.
You can't have your civil war without killing Americans. Before you are allowed to start rewriting the Constitution to where you see fit, you would have to actually win your civil war. You would win that war by killing Americans. Americans with rights protected under that Constitution that you want to defend (change).
You feel that politicians who are Constitutionally elected should be round up and slaughtered, because you feel that they are traitors to the Constitution. Funny though, they were constitutionally elected, but because of you, those people who voted for these elected officials don't deserve to have the right to choose their representatives in our government. But I suppose we have to choose who YOU want in our government right? Doesn't sound like a Democratic Republic to me, sounds like a puppet dictatorship.
So, if we break down what you actually want to do with the United States in your little coup de tat, we can see that you want to change the Constitution, strip people of their citizenship, strip the public of their right to choose their own representatives, bring back slavery, and slaughter a lot of Americans in the process.
And you wonder why you are getting flack on this board?
My one vote does not make the difference, I promise you.
Your one vote, along with millions of other people's one vote does make a difference. Your living under the fallacy that no other person but a candidate that is Republican or Democrat can be elected to office. It's simply not true.
By having this amendment reinstated and clarified, it would eliminate under fear of losing ones citizenship, the lobbyist bribes that control Washington D.C. Is there anyone, besides the special interests that they represent, who actually wants this to continue?
Lobby groups while destructive to our republic cannot give titles of nobility, plus the fact that they are indeed constitutional.
So your little lie here is shown for what it is. As I said before, I don't believe you are stupid by any stretch of the word. You want to strip people of their citizenship, and enslave those same people. You just want a legal way to do it. As most of us are aware, this "original" 13th amendment would make it illegal to have the title ESQ. in ones name. Many many lawyers use that absurd little title, because it dates back to the original BAR association of England, I am sure that you are aware of this.
You can't have your civil war without killing Americans. Before you are allowed to start rewriting the Constitution to where you see fit, you would have to actually win your civil war. You would win that war by killing Americans. Americans with rights protected under that Constitution that you want to defend (change).
You feel that politicians who are Constitutionally elected should be round up and slaughtered, because you feel that they are traitors to the Constitution. Funny though, they were constitutionally elected, but because of you, those people who voted for these elected officials don't deserve to have the right to choose their representatives in our government. But I suppose we have to choose who YOU want in our government right? Doesn't sound like a Democratic Republic to me, sounds like a puppet dictatorship.
So, if we break down what you actually want to do with the United States in your little coup de tat, we can see that you want to change the Constitution, strip people of their citizenship, strip the public of their right to choose their own representatives, bring back slavery, and slaughter a lot of Americans in the process.
And you wonder why you are getting flack on this board?
reply to post by whatukno
I'm not getting enough flack to warrant a change in my views. The flack I receive is by a recurring 4-5 people who like to follow me around from post to post, or derail my posts entirely. Can you guess who one of those people are?
You are living under the fallacy that because it is possible, it could happen. This is wrong. Third party representatives or people running without the aid of a party, are NOT given the same options nor limelight of the two front running parties. They are instead smeared or ignored with the use of mass amounts of money in order to keep them from the table.
There hasn't been a single time since the instatement of the CURRENT two party system where a third party has even shown a CHANCE of taking the majority in Congress or, God forbid, the presidency. Show me proof otherwise?
Perhaps if people would wake up and actually put their vote to good use, I will begin to vote. For now, I am happy spreading the word and promoting the good candidates for our future, all to see no progress made.
Yes, as of right now lobby groups are Constitutional. But what you are not understanding is that it is only because the ORIGINAL 13TH AMENDMENT ISN'T PRESENT! The same problems they experienced back then - members of Congress being paid off by foreign interests, we are experiencing TODAY with special interests groups and it SHOULD BE unconstitutional.
Out policies and legislature should not be determined by those with the deepest pockets, it should be determined by ALL OF THE PEOPLE for what is BEST for the people.
If ignoring the interests of the people in exchange for hefty payouts is Constitutional in your eyes, then by God's graces I hope to high hell that you aren't elected into office. This is the same corrupt thinking of all the politicians in Washington today.
Trust me, you give me way too much credit then I deserve. I am a normal man, living a normal life. If not for my outspoken views and actions, I would just be another guy you passed on the street. However, behind the scenes I am a fighter. I am a planner. I am a dreamer. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I AM stupid, I'm just saying that I have much more important things to prepare for then these insipid plans of "world domination" and "dictatorship" that you speak of.
As far as I am aware, the title of esquire holds no meaning towards the status of a person, no more than the title of doctor. If it is deemed unconstitutional at the time then the amendment gives you the option to "retain" said name and only if you do so would you be eligible for it's punishment. If it honestly doesn't mean anything then why not give it up?
Revolutionary War. Thanks. It is a war for Revolution, therefore it is a revolutionary war. We will not be fighting random people, we will be fighting the government. It just so happens that people in that government are American's yes, but they will not be targeted because of this.
I suppose due to the nature of the circumstances it would simply be labeled a "Revolution" but if it would escalate to a full on war, then it would be a Civil-Revolutionary War, but not simply a mere Civil War.
And as stated, the people in power will be asked to step down. Should they refuse, we will demand our rights as people to be heard and answered. Naturally, they will sic their dogs on us and we will be forced to defend ourselves. They will start the fighting.
And kill them? Heavens no. The only killing I will be doing is in self defense. Prison followed by Constitutional tribunal is more like it for all of those who would refuse to step down who are asked.
Nah, I wouldn't choose anybody. What I would propose is the removal of all non-Constitutional mandates placed upon the people who would choose to run for Congress and or political positions, and I would propose an act which would prevent public media outlets from biased campaigning for select candidates. Key word - PROPOSE. I don't force anything. I would propose, and people would vote on it. I'm sure I wouldn't have trouble getting a yes vote on something like that.
From that point the people can vote for a new Congress, and over the time that takes to be provided, a team will going over all laws and regulations in accordance to the Constitution so that there is a list ready and waiting when the new Congress is banded. Rest assured, the new congress will be busy enough going over and debunking old laws that they will no have to worry about new ones. And rightly so, because other laws will be reserved for the state through the 10th amendment.
I don't know why, but you got me off on a tangent here. I digress. Everything I do and believe in is Constitutional sounds... I've checked multiple times.
As for the rest of the bologna you said, I don't care. It would have a better impact if it was posted in the [HOAX] forum for that is what it is. You try to sound like Sherlock Holmes uncovering some dastardly plot to undermine the world when in reality, you only sound like a paranoid schizophrenic. Not everyone is out to get you, though it may seem like it as some days.
Now I know that if there are ET's out there, the reason they don't make contact with Earth is because of this. They might have the best intentions, they might mean no harm, they might want prosperity and good fortune for everyone... yet there will still be those who declare them enemies. "Oh look, but they have a gun on their spaceship - THAT MEANS THEIR GONNA KILL US ALL!" That is what I keep hearing from skeptics about my motives.
Normally this is the part where I keep a cool head and say - "I assure you, I'm seriously here for the freedom, liberty, and prosperity of all people on Earth" yet I couldn't count the amount of times I've already said this. There are just some people you will never convince.
Anywho... a Revolutionary Party. Cool beans. I'm in. Where do we sign up?
I'm not getting enough flack to warrant a change in my views. The flack I receive is by a recurring 4-5 people who like to follow me around from post to post, or derail my posts entirely. Can you guess who one of those people are?
Your living under the fallacy that no other person but a candidate that is Republican or Democrat can be elected to office. It's simply not true.
You are living under the fallacy that because it is possible, it could happen. This is wrong. Third party representatives or people running without the aid of a party, are NOT given the same options nor limelight of the two front running parties. They are instead smeared or ignored with the use of mass amounts of money in order to keep them from the table.
There hasn't been a single time since the instatement of the CURRENT two party system where a third party has even shown a CHANCE of taking the majority in Congress or, God forbid, the presidency. Show me proof otherwise?
Perhaps if people would wake up and actually put their vote to good use, I will begin to vote. For now, I am happy spreading the word and promoting the good candidates for our future, all to see no progress made.
Lobby groups while destructive to our republic cannot give titles of nobility, plus the fact that they are indeed constitutional.
Yes, as of right now lobby groups are Constitutional. But what you are not understanding is that it is only because the ORIGINAL 13TH AMENDMENT ISN'T PRESENT! The same problems they experienced back then - members of Congress being paid off by foreign interests, we are experiencing TODAY with special interests groups and it SHOULD BE unconstitutional.
Out policies and legislature should not be determined by those with the deepest pockets, it should be determined by ALL OF THE PEOPLE for what is BEST for the people.
If ignoring the interests of the people in exchange for hefty payouts is Constitutional in your eyes, then by God's graces I hope to high hell that you aren't elected into office. This is the same corrupt thinking of all the politicians in Washington today.
As I said before, I don't believe you are stupid by any stretch of the word. You want to strip people of their citizenship, and enslave those same people. You just want a legal way to do it.
Trust me, you give me way too much credit then I deserve. I am a normal man, living a normal life. If not for my outspoken views and actions, I would just be another guy you passed on the street. However, behind the scenes I am a fighter. I am a planner. I am a dreamer. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I AM stupid, I'm just saying that I have much more important things to prepare for then these insipid plans of "world domination" and "dictatorship" that you speak of.
would make it illegal to have the title ESQ. in ones name
As far as I am aware, the title of esquire holds no meaning towards the status of a person, no more than the title of doctor. If it is deemed unconstitutional at the time then the amendment gives you the option to "retain" said name and only if you do so would you be eligible for it's punishment. If it honestly doesn't mean anything then why not give it up?
You can't have your civil war without killing Americans.
Revolutionary War. Thanks. It is a war for Revolution, therefore it is a revolutionary war. We will not be fighting random people, we will be fighting the government. It just so happens that people in that government are American's yes, but they will not be targeted because of this.
I suppose due to the nature of the circumstances it would simply be labeled a "Revolution" but if it would escalate to a full on war, then it would be a Civil-Revolutionary War, but not simply a mere Civil War.
And as stated, the people in power will be asked to step down. Should they refuse, we will demand our rights as people to be heard and answered. Naturally, they will sic their dogs on us and we will be forced to defend ourselves. They will start the fighting.
And kill them? Heavens no. The only killing I will be doing is in self defense. Prison followed by Constitutional tribunal is more like it for all of those who would refuse to step down who are asked.
But I suppose we have to choose who YOU want in our government right? Doesn't sound like a Democratic Republic to me, sounds like a puppet dictatorship.
Nah, I wouldn't choose anybody. What I would propose is the removal of all non-Constitutional mandates placed upon the people who would choose to run for Congress and or political positions, and I would propose an act which would prevent public media outlets from biased campaigning for select candidates. Key word - PROPOSE. I don't force anything. I would propose, and people would vote on it. I'm sure I wouldn't have trouble getting a yes vote on something like that.
From that point the people can vote for a new Congress, and over the time that takes to be provided, a team will going over all laws and regulations in accordance to the Constitution so that there is a list ready and waiting when the new Congress is banded. Rest assured, the new congress will be busy enough going over and debunking old laws that they will no have to worry about new ones. And rightly so, because other laws will be reserved for the state through the 10th amendment.
I don't know why, but you got me off on a tangent here. I digress. Everything I do and believe in is Constitutional sounds... I've checked multiple times.
As for the rest of the bologna you said, I don't care. It would have a better impact if it was posted in the [HOAX] forum for that is what it is. You try to sound like Sherlock Holmes uncovering some dastardly plot to undermine the world when in reality, you only sound like a paranoid schizophrenic. Not everyone is out to get you, though it may seem like it as some days.
Now I know that if there are ET's out there, the reason they don't make contact with Earth is because of this. They might have the best intentions, they might mean no harm, they might want prosperity and good fortune for everyone... yet there will still be those who declare them enemies. "Oh look, but they have a gun on their spaceship - THAT MEANS THEIR GONNA KILL US ALL!" That is what I keep hearing from skeptics about my motives.
Normally this is the part where I keep a cool head and say - "I assure you, I'm seriously here for the freedom, liberty, and prosperity of all people on Earth" yet I couldn't count the amount of times I've already said this. There are just some people you will never convince.
Anywho... a Revolutionary Party. Cool beans. I'm in. Where do we sign up?
reply to post by gwydionblack
And you call me paranoid.
Progress is being made, it's just not the instant gratification that has plagued this nation for far too long. Some patience and perseverance is required before real effective change can happen.
I said it was Constitutional, I didn't say it was right. Personally I would hope that our elected representatives would turn away from lobby groups. But the Constitution does allow for lobbyists to exist.
Hitler was just an artist.
They are Constitutionally elected by the people, what right do you have to demand that people that are elected by the Constitution step down?
Again, who are you to demand anyone who is Constitutionally elected or appointed to step down? To me it does not sound like you much care for the Constitution at all.
So, I guess to you the Supreme Court doesn't cut it eh? But apparently your group should have that authority without a Constitutional basis?
Ok now you want to kill the 1st Amendment too! Tell me, is there anything about our U.S. Constitution that you do like?
Obviously from people that you hand chosen right? Because after all, you have illegally and unconstitutionally arrested the previous congress that were elected by the people.
Can we call this the martial law phase of your plan? The part where dissidents are put down like dogs in the street, your shock troops round up people who think differently, and special "camps" are set up to detain undesirables? Tell us, would you use gas, or are you just going to take the simple bullet to the back of the head route?
Ah yes, the far away freedom phase of the plan, where after the blood thirsty coup, the reenacted slavery, the putting down of the resistance (or insurgency if you prefer.) the mock trials, and the public hangings, the forced detention and "elimination" of resistors, and the "reeducation" of the public, a new blessed day of freedom under the new Constitution can be enacted. Somehow, this "freedom" you are going to give the United States will never quite be able to be enacted because of the constant threat of subversion by the unseen enemy.
[edit on 3/5/2010 by whatukno]
The flack I receive is by a recurring 4-5 people who like to follow me around from post to post, or derail my posts entirely. Can you guess who one of those people are?
And you call me paranoid.
Perhaps if people would wake up and actually put their vote to good use, I will begin to vote. For now, I am happy spreading the word and promoting the good candidates for our future, all to see no progress made.
Progress is being made, it's just not the instant gratification that has plagued this nation for far too long. Some patience and perseverance is required before real effective change can happen.
If ignoring the interests of the people in exchange for hefty payouts is Constitutional in your eyes, then by God's graces I hope to high hell that you aren't elected into office. This is the same corrupt thinking of all the politicians in Washington today.
I said it was Constitutional, I didn't say it was right. Personally I would hope that our elected representatives would turn away from lobby groups. But the Constitution does allow for lobbyists to exist.
I am a normal man, living a normal life. If not for my outspoken views and actions, I would just be another guy you passed on the street. However, behind the scenes I am a fighter. I am a planner. I am a dreamer. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I AM stupid, I'm just saying that I have much more important things to prepare for then these insipid plans of "world domination" and "dictatorship" that you speak of.
Hitler was just an artist.
And as stated, the people in power will be asked to step down. Should they refuse, we will demand our rights as people to be heard and answered. Naturally, they will sic their dogs on us and we will be forced to defend ourselves. They will start the fighting.
They are Constitutionally elected by the people, what right do you have to demand that people that are elected by the Constitution step down?
And kill them? Heavens no. The only killing I will be doing is in self defense. Prison followed by Constitutional tribunal is more like it for all of those who would refuse to step down who are asked.
Again, who are you to demand anyone who is Constitutionally elected or appointed to step down? To me it does not sound like you much care for the Constitution at all.
What I would propose is the removal of all non-Constitutional mandates placed upon the people who would choose to run for Congress and or political positions...
So, I guess to you the Supreme Court doesn't cut it eh? But apparently your group should have that authority without a Constitutional basis?
and I would propose an act which would prevent public media outlets from biased campaigning for select candidates. Key word - PROPOSE. I don't force anything. I would propose, and people would vote on it. I'm sure I wouldn't have trouble getting a yes vote on something like that.
Ok now you want to kill the 1st Amendment too! Tell me, is there anything about our U.S. Constitution that you do like?
From that point the people can vote for a new Congress,
Obviously from people that you hand chosen right? Because after all, you have illegally and unconstitutionally arrested the previous congress that were elected by the people.
and over the time that takes to be provided, a team will going over all laws and regulations in accordance to the Constitution so that there is a list ready and waiting when the new Congress is banded.
Can we call this the martial law phase of your plan? The part where dissidents are put down like dogs in the street, your shock troops round up people who think differently, and special "camps" are set up to detain undesirables? Tell us, would you use gas, or are you just going to take the simple bullet to the back of the head route?
Rest assured, the new congress will be busy enough going over and debunking old laws that they will no have to worry about new ones. And rightly so, because other laws will be reserved for the state through the 10th amendment.
Ah yes, the far away freedom phase of the plan, where after the blood thirsty coup, the reenacted slavery, the putting down of the resistance (or insurgency if you prefer.) the mock trials, and the public hangings, the forced detention and "elimination" of resistors, and the "reeducation" of the public, a new blessed day of freedom under the new Constitution can be enacted. Somehow, this "freedom" you are going to give the United States will never quite be able to be enacted because of the constant threat of subversion by the unseen enemy.
[edit on 3/5/2010 by whatukno]
reply to post by gwydionblack
A point of note: well yes, a knighthood or other Royal Honour can offer many benefits to the honoree but only in the United Kingdom and Commonwealth. In fact it is illegal to even refer to yourself as "sir" or "lady" after being given an honour unless they are Commonwealth citizens. So say, Guliani whom was knighted after 9-11, cannot refer to himself as "Sir Rudy."
As for the "Revolution" how many people will you have behind you when you demand every single political official in the United States? I highly doubt that a majority of citizens will side with you any time in the near future. On top of this do you truly believe that the politicians will bow out because a vast minority of citizens demand it?
You're going to fight, don't sugar coat it, that's what you want, otherwise you'd find a different way to do this! You're making the kind of argument that a wife beater makes to be able to excuse his actions, in this case "they made us fight them." Semantics will not change the facts.
You're acting as an armchair Ché, everything you want to do you can excuse. It seems to me that you're out for the same reason too many other egotistical "revolutionaries" were. You don't like the fact that you have the same small say as everyone else. You think you know a better way then everyone, so you're out to destroy the system. You have a vote, the same as every other American citizen, deal with it.
A point of note: well yes, a knighthood or other Royal Honour can offer many benefits to the honoree but only in the United Kingdom and Commonwealth. In fact it is illegal to even refer to yourself as "sir" or "lady" after being given an honour unless they are Commonwealth citizens. So say, Guliani whom was knighted after 9-11, cannot refer to himself as "Sir Rudy."
As for the "Revolution" how many people will you have behind you when you demand every single political official in the United States? I highly doubt that a majority of citizens will side with you any time in the near future. On top of this do you truly believe that the politicians will bow out because a vast minority of citizens demand it?
You're going to fight, don't sugar coat it, that's what you want, otherwise you'd find a different way to do this! You're making the kind of argument that a wife beater makes to be able to excuse his actions, in this case "they made us fight them." Semantics will not change the facts.
You're acting as an armchair Ché, everything you want to do you can excuse. It seems to me that you're out for the same reason too many other egotistical "revolutionaries" were. You don't like the fact that you have the same small say as everyone else. You think you know a better way then everyone, so you're out to destroy the system. You have a vote, the same as every other American citizen, deal with it.
reply to post by whatukno
Would you like me to U2U you some sources? I have about a dozen topics under my belt that I posted in or created myself where the same people came (only after I posted) and targeted yours truly. As much as I don't feel like putting up the effort I gladly will, however, I don't even think THAT would appease you.
Yeah. Progress. So and so of the Constitutionalist party got .4% of the overall vote this past year, this is up from the .3% last year. Looks like change is on the horizon folks! Instant gratification eat your heart out.
And I said it was unconstitutional, based on the fact that they unconstitutionally removed the original 13th amendment. The "Constitution" you support was created by unconstitutional means. Talk about hipocracy.
Godwin's law eat your heart out.
No, they weren't. The current voting system no longer follows the laws of a Republic system of voting.
Well my good friend, the same Constitution and Declaration of Independence that protects their rights to be elected, also protects my rights to revolt.
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here.
No, but I do want to actually enforce slander and libel laws on a public stage.
Seriously... where do you pull this bull-snip- from?!
No we CAN'T call this the martial law phase of my plan, because there IS NO martial law phase. If anyone wants their voice to be head, unlike today, all they have to do is speak up.
This is hilarious. You apparently consider yourself to be God, because you are able to create things from nothing - pretty much everything you said. First of all, you claim time and time again that people won't join in the revolution - yet somehow I'm going to have "shock troops" to round up "undesireables" and insurgents.
So you are telling me, you are assuming, that after the overthrow of the government - the people who decided to sit their lazy asses at home are suddenly going to gain the will and desire to surge against the resistance? Please. After all this government has done to the people, if they aren't ready to surge then and there, they sure as hell aren't going to rebel against those who have done nothing to them. Where is the logic? Apparently the door to your brain only swings outward and not in.
You are an idiot. NOTE TO MODS: If you want to take this as a personal attack, then perhaps you can note the several flagged posts I have made about personal attacks on me. K, thanks.
I'm demanding every single political office in the United States. WE will however, be demanding the takeover of the federal government from corruption and hopefully the change can work its way down on a trickle system.
As for how many people will be behind me? I've said it countless times, I don't want people to follow ME, I want people to follow their hearts in what they know is right - if they follow ME then they choose to follow my ideals - liberty and freedom for all mankind. How someone could create a monster, dictator, murderer out of those ideals is beyond me, but I can assure you that I am none of the three.
As with any revolution, numbers start small, and as progress begins the ranks will rise and as people wake up to the movement and the effort behind it, the ranks will rise even more.
Sadly this is true. A majority will not side with the cause. Thus is true of all revolutions. If a majority decided to fight for a cause, the revolution would be swift and without bloodshed. It is the minorities that need to fight harder.
Let us not forget, the Revolutionary War was fought by only a SMALL minority of people against the greatest standing army in the world. While some will choose a side, there will be chose that will be silent supporters, and those that will choose not to be involved at all - a middle ground so to speak.
As far as politicians bowing out, it is their duty to listen to the populace. If they choose to ignore the people asking them to step down, then they commit crimes against this nation. If politicians were so easily swayed, they would not be as corrupt as they are now. Right now they are fearless, with no reason to listen to the people. We need to give them a reason.
I am going to fight because there is no other way. The other choices have been exhausted or outlawed and regulated by the corrupt government. The only thing they cannot regulate is us standing up for what is right. How grand it would be to march on Washington and have them all step aside for the reinstatement of the Republic of the People. But this is a pipe dream, and though it is a SLIM possibility, I will choose to be prepared for the worst. I do not want to kill nor injure nor attack anything, yet I and others who see brighter days ahead see this as the only way.
My views are nothing like that of Ché, however, I can only hope that my passion comes as close as his did, and that I remain focused in the plight.
You mention Ché Guevara and then you mention egotistical. I saw nothing of an egoist in what he fought for and I see nothing of an egoist in what I fight for. How am I fighting for myself when I am fighting for the rights of 300+ million people to be upheld and for their voices to be heard. The only thing egoist about that is the fact that I happen to be included in that number but so does everybody else.
I quote this for truth. I don't like that fact and that is going to change. But it won't be just my 'small say' that changes, it will be everyones.
And you call me paranoid.
Would you like me to U2U you some sources? I have about a dozen topics under my belt that I posted in or created myself where the same people came (only after I posted) and targeted yours truly. As much as I don't feel like putting up the effort I gladly will, however, I don't even think THAT would appease you.
Progress is being made, it's just not the instant gratification that has plagued this nation for far too long. Some patience and perseverance is required before real effective change can happen.
Yeah. Progress. So and so of the Constitutionalist party got .4% of the overall vote this past year, this is up from the .3% last year. Looks like change is on the horizon folks! Instant gratification eat your heart out.
I said it was Constitutional, I didn't say it was right.
And I said it was unconstitutional, based on the fact that they unconstitutionally removed the original 13th amendment. The "Constitution" you support was created by unconstitutional means. Talk about hipocracy.
Hitler was just an artist.
Godwin's law eat your heart out.
They are Constitutionally elected by the people
No, they weren't. The current voting system no longer follows the laws of a Republic system of voting.
what right do you have to demand that people that are elected by the Constitution step down?
Well my good friend, the same Constitution and Declaration of Independence that protects their rights to be elected, also protects my rights to revolt.
So, I guess to you the Supreme Court doesn't cut it eh? But apparently your group should have that authority without a Constitutional basis?
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here.
Ok now you want to kill the 1st Amendment too!
No, but I do want to actually enforce slander and libel laws on a public stage.
Obviously from people that you hand chosen right?
Seriously... where do you pull this bull-snip- from?!
Can we call this the martial law phase of your plan?
No we CAN'T call this the martial law phase of my plan, because there IS NO martial law phase. If anyone wants their voice to be head, unlike today, all they have to do is speak up.
The part where dissidents are put down like dogs in the street, your shock troops round up people who think differently, and special "camps" are set up to detain undesirables? Tell us, would you use gas, or are you just going to take the simple bullet to the back of the head route?
This is hilarious. You apparently consider yourself to be God, because you are able to create things from nothing - pretty much everything you said. First of all, you claim time and time again that people won't join in the revolution - yet somehow I'm going to have "shock troops" to round up "undesireables" and insurgents.
So you are telling me, you are assuming, that after the overthrow of the government - the people who decided to sit their lazy asses at home are suddenly going to gain the will and desire to surge against the resistance? Please. After all this government has done to the people, if they aren't ready to surge then and there, they sure as hell aren't going to rebel against those who have done nothing to them. Where is the logic? Apparently the door to your brain only swings outward and not in.
Ah yes, the far away freedom phase of the plan, where after the blood thirsty coup, the reenacted slavery, the putting down of the resistance (or insurgency if you prefer.) the mock trials, and the public hangings, the forced detention and "elimination" of resistors, and the "reeducation" of the public, a new blessed day of freedom under the new Constitution can be enacted.
You are an idiot. NOTE TO MODS: If you want to take this as a personal attack, then perhaps you can note the several flagged posts I have made about personal attacks on me. K, thanks.
As for the "Revolution" how many people will you have behind you when you demand every single political official in the United States?
I'm demanding every single political office in the United States. WE will however, be demanding the takeover of the federal government from corruption and hopefully the change can work its way down on a trickle system.
As for how many people will be behind me? I've said it countless times, I don't want people to follow ME, I want people to follow their hearts in what they know is right - if they follow ME then they choose to follow my ideals - liberty and freedom for all mankind. How someone could create a monster, dictator, murderer out of those ideals is beyond me, but I can assure you that I am none of the three.
As with any revolution, numbers start small, and as progress begins the ranks will rise and as people wake up to the movement and the effort behind it, the ranks will rise even more.
I highly doubt that a majority of citizens will side with you any time in the near future. On top of this do you truly believe that the politicians will bow out because a vast minority of citizens demand it?
Sadly this is true. A majority will not side with the cause. Thus is true of all revolutions. If a majority decided to fight for a cause, the revolution would be swift and without bloodshed. It is the minorities that need to fight harder.
Let us not forget, the Revolutionary War was fought by only a SMALL minority of people against the greatest standing army in the world. While some will choose a side, there will be chose that will be silent supporters, and those that will choose not to be involved at all - a middle ground so to speak.
As far as politicians bowing out, it is their duty to listen to the populace. If they choose to ignore the people asking them to step down, then they commit crimes against this nation. If politicians were so easily swayed, they would not be as corrupt as they are now. Right now they are fearless, with no reason to listen to the people. We need to give them a reason.
You're going to fight, don't sugar coat it, that's what you want, otherwise you'd find a different way to do this!
I am going to fight because there is no other way. The other choices have been exhausted or outlawed and regulated by the corrupt government. The only thing they cannot regulate is us standing up for what is right. How grand it would be to march on Washington and have them all step aside for the reinstatement of the Republic of the People. But this is a pipe dream, and though it is a SLIM possibility, I will choose to be prepared for the worst. I do not want to kill nor injure nor attack anything, yet I and others who see brighter days ahead see this as the only way.
You're acting as an armchair Ché, everything you want to do you can excuse.
My views are nothing like that of Ché, however, I can only hope that my passion comes as close as his did, and that I remain focused in the plight.
It seems to me that you're out for the same reason too many other egotistical "revolutionaries" were.
You mention Ché Guevara and then you mention egotistical. I saw nothing of an egoist in what he fought for and I see nothing of an egoist in what I fight for. How am I fighting for myself when I am fighting for the rights of 300+ million people to be upheld and for their voices to be heard. The only thing egoist about that is the fact that I happen to be included in that number but so does everybody else.
You don't like the fact that you have the same small say as everyone else.
I quote this for truth. I don't like that fact and that is going to change. But it won't be just my 'small say' that changes, it will be everyones.
reply to post by gwydionblack
I'm beginning to think that you don't even know what you are "fighting" for. And please don't flatter yourself...I respond to you because you are a dangerous individual willing to kill American citizens for your own ideology (read: Terrorist).
There are so many things wrong with what you say...it is getting tiring to point them out.
I admit, I have never heard of this "original" 13th amendment. And even now...after searching, all I can find are poorly written webpages about it. And they all say the same thing...they want it re-instated so lawyers can't run for office. Currently...57 senators have law degrees and 168 represenatives have law degrees. A small majority in the senate and a minority in the house. Seriously...calm the paranoia down.
What would this solve in your opinion? And if it was so important...why didn't the god-like founding fathers address this???
That's because we were never a true republic or a true democracy...we were a combination of both. A representative republic or a democratic republic...whichever you choose. We elected representatives for ourselves and they vote for us...how is this not working? Just because the majority of the public votes either R or D doesn't mean the government isn't working...it just means that the public has decided to run with the two party system.
I agree...you want to silence the media...very "freedom of press" of you. You said you want to STOP a media outlet from PROMOTING a candidate. Slander and libel laws don't apply to SUPPORTING someone. What you want to do is shut them up and take away their free speech. So there is another group who loses this universal "freedom" you speak of.
Illegal Immigrants- CHECK...no freedom for you
Lawyers - CHECK...no freedom for you
Media - CHECK...no freedom for you
Oh...and even though current representatives have been voted in by MILLIONS of American Citizens...you feel like it is your job to OVERTURN THEIR VOTE.
American Citizens - CHECK...no voting for you.
So what happens when you have your little fantasy revolution...and the AMERICAN CITIZENS vote in the same people...BECAUSE THAT IS WHO THEY ALREADY VOTED IN???????
So you can't take some criticism on a message board without crying to the mods...but you are planning a revolution
Again...liberty and freedom for ALL MANKIND...except for illegal immigrants, lawyers, media, and American voters.
I never called you a monster...monsters have to be scary and you just seem sad.
But a dictator...sure...I can see that. Because YOU are taking it upon YOURSELF to do what YOU view is right. Who asked YOU to do this? Was there a vote on this? Or are YOU, as a dictator would, just doing it because it is what YOU think is right? Notice all the references to YOU in above paragraph...there is something missing..hmmm...maybe like the VOICE OF THE PEOPLE.
Murderer? Well you are calling for a violent revolution and have said death and bloodshed will be necessary...of AMERICAN CITIZENS...so yes...you are a potential murderer if you follow through on your plans.
BTW...who are the targets of this "revolution"? Government officials? Government employees? Staffers? Guards? All of the aboves families? Those that speak out against you?
Or is it like you said before...you are going to attack a "symbol"??? HINT: V for Vendetta is a movie...not real life.
It's not sad...it is GREAT. The majority will rise up against you when innocent American citizens start being killed by your fanatical ideology.
Stop being so naive. Muskets vs Muskets is different than hand guns, hunting rifles, and the few illegal heavy arms your "group" may have VS stealth bombers and bunker buster bombs.
Again...fantasy world...this isn't the 18th century. And the revolutionaries didn't win the war by themselves...Spain declared war on England...and the American Revolutionaries had the backing of the French...who is going to back you...China? Russia?
They do listen to the populace...every 2 or 4 years. I don't know of ONE official that has refused to step down once voted out. Again...the American PUBLIC have voted them in office...just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean it is wrong.
You are going to fight because you are an ideolouge and think your way is the best way. Dictator, Terrorists, Fanatic...call it what you want...one thing for sure is that it is not DEMOCRATIC.
Here is the bottom line...you can't even seem to get a majority backing your ideas on a site like ATS...good luck with the general public. You have managed, like you said, to get a more of us loudly opposing you than those loudly supporting you...that will only increase as you get more fanatical.
I'm beginning to think that you don't even know what you are "fighting" for. And please don't flatter yourself...I respond to you because you are a dangerous individual willing to kill American citizens for your own ideology (read: Terrorist).
There are so many things wrong with what you say...it is getting tiring to point them out.
And I said it was unconstitutional, based on the fact that they unconstitutionally removed the original 13th amendment.
I admit, I have never heard of this "original" 13th amendment. And even now...after searching, all I can find are poorly written webpages about it. And they all say the same thing...they want it re-instated so lawyers can't run for office. Currently...57 senators have law degrees and 168 represenatives have law degrees. A small majority in the senate and a minority in the house. Seriously...calm the paranoia down.
What would this solve in your opinion? And if it was so important...why didn't the god-like founding fathers address this???
The current voting system no longer follows the laws of a Republic system of voting.
That's because we were never a true republic or a true democracy...we were a combination of both. A representative republic or a democratic republic...whichever you choose. We elected representatives for ourselves and they vote for us...how is this not working? Just because the majority of the public votes either R or D doesn't mean the government isn't working...it just means that the public has decided to run with the two party system.
Ok now you want to kill the 1st Amendment too!
No, but I do want to actually enforce slander and libel laws on a public stage.
I agree...you want to silence the media...very "freedom of press" of you. You said you want to STOP a media outlet from PROMOTING a candidate. Slander and libel laws don't apply to SUPPORTING someone. What you want to do is shut them up and take away their free speech. So there is another group who loses this universal "freedom" you speak of.
Illegal Immigrants- CHECK...no freedom for you
Lawyers - CHECK...no freedom for you
Media - CHECK...no freedom for you
Oh...and even though current representatives have been voted in by MILLIONS of American Citizens...you feel like it is your job to OVERTURN THEIR VOTE.
American Citizens - CHECK...no voting for you.
So what happens when you have your little fantasy revolution...and the AMERICAN CITIZENS vote in the same people...BECAUSE THAT IS WHO THEY ALREADY VOTED IN???????
You are an idiot. NOTE TO MODS: If you want to take this as a personal attack, then perhaps you can note the several flagged posts I have made about personal attacks on me. K, thanks.
So you can't take some criticism on a message board without crying to the mods...but you are planning a revolution
liberty and freedom for all mankind. How someone could create a monster, dictator, murderer out of those ideals is beyond me, but I can assure you that I am none of the three.
Again...liberty and freedom for ALL MANKIND...except for illegal immigrants, lawyers, media, and American voters.
I never called you a monster...monsters have to be scary and you just seem sad.
But a dictator...sure...I can see that. Because YOU are taking it upon YOURSELF to do what YOU view is right. Who asked YOU to do this? Was there a vote on this? Or are YOU, as a dictator would, just doing it because it is what YOU think is right? Notice all the references to YOU in above paragraph...there is something missing..hmmm...maybe like the VOICE OF THE PEOPLE.
Murderer? Well you are calling for a violent revolution and have said death and bloodshed will be necessary...of AMERICAN CITIZENS...so yes...you are a potential murderer if you follow through on your plans.
BTW...who are the targets of this "revolution"? Government officials? Government employees? Staffers? Guards? All of the aboves families? Those that speak out against you?
Or is it like you said before...you are going to attack a "symbol"??? HINT: V for Vendetta is a movie...not real life.
Sadly this is true. A majority will not side with the cause.
It's not sad...it is GREAT. The majority will rise up against you when innocent American citizens start being killed by your fanatical ideology.
Let us not forget, the Revolutionary War was fought by only a SMALL minority of people against the greatest standing army in the world.
Stop being so naive. Muskets vs Muskets is different than hand guns, hunting rifles, and the few illegal heavy arms your "group" may have VS stealth bombers and bunker buster bombs.
Again...fantasy world...this isn't the 18th century. And the revolutionaries didn't win the war by themselves...Spain declared war on England...and the American Revolutionaries had the backing of the French...who is going to back you...China? Russia?
As far as politicians bowing out, it is their duty to listen to the populace. If they choose to ignore the people asking them to step down, then they commit crimes against this nation.
They do listen to the populace...every 2 or 4 years. I don't know of ONE official that has refused to step down once voted out. Again...the American PUBLIC have voted them in office...just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean it is wrong.
I am going to fight because there is no other way.
You are going to fight because you are an ideolouge and think your way is the best way. Dictator, Terrorists, Fanatic...call it what you want...one thing for sure is that it is not DEMOCRATIC.
Here is the bottom line...you can't even seem to get a majority backing your ideas on a site like ATS...good luck with the general public. You have managed, like you said, to get a more of us loudly opposing you than those loudly supporting you...that will only increase as you get more fanatical.
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