Forum Gang Activity On the Rise on Ats?

reply to post by gheybayten

middle eastern gangs? say anything anti gay and watch the crowds pour in. there are so many gays on this site and they "stick together" real well.

Stating the obvious here, but ... you're 'username' is enlightening.
You get what you give... It's all in how you word your post...


ed: add quote

[edit on 1-3-2010 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by gheybayten
say anything anti gay and watch the crowds pour in. there are so many gays on this site and they "stick together" real well.

I know right, what's this world coming to when you can't propagate hate filled ignorance without being taken to task?

I like the 'stick together' allusion as well. You are as funny as you are enlightened!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I read far more of those threads than I respond to. I have noticed there are gangs on your side and the other side. You would call those that agree with you your friends and if on the other side you would call them a gang. They likely consider you and your friends a gang and themselves to be friends.

Everyone gravitates towards those they share some belief with. You do too.

Is what you want, no debate and only those who agree with you to post?

I have noticed that there is an inordinately large group of Jew Haters that hit in waves. You know the ones. They say they are after the Zionists, but secretly consider all Jewish people to be Zionists. Same as the KKK and the Neo-Nazi's only with a different target.

We also see waves of propagandists who deny that Terrorists exist. Who defend things like killing innocent civilians and pretend that it is somehow self-defense.

Then we have the Muslim haters, who wrongly place all Muslims into the same box as the Terrorists and extremists. They are the exact same people as the Jew haters; they just have a different target for their hate.

Then of course we can add on the Gay haters, the Christian haters and on and on and on.

It would seem the real topic should be the hate. What makes people hate entire groups and classes of people?

As far as your issue. Ignore the posts you don't like, that don't agree with you. Debate means not agreeing. That is the whole point. ATS would be worthless if the threads were just people agreeing with each other.

Who cares about stars and flags? If when someone disagrees with you they get lots of stars, you might want to consider why instead of getting angry about it. All they are saying is they agree with them and not you. It does not indicate who is right or wrong. The evidence you present determines that generally.

It seems like every time somebody gets mad because people don't agree with them, we get a thread like this. That is part of the character of ATS. That is part of what makes this such an interesting place. I can't imagine myself on other boards where all the members are of the same mind and just spew hatred at those who don't agree with them. That is where the real gangs are. Here we are all kept honest just having so many opinions and ideas in one place.

reply to post by jackflap

The synapses started firing and what not, it was awesome! I was like damn, I have been doing that to others. I am going to look back into my posts to see if I could find that whole exchange again but it was awesome. Ever since then, I think about that quote every day and I even taught my two older boys it so they don't get trapped in their little world and try to push it on people. I don't know, did I take too much out of that quote or what?

Yeah, you better get your facts straight buddy or lay off that pipe._javascript:icon('')

You seem to be confusing synapses for some heavily laden substance abuse!('')

Just goes to show you how gullible people can be on the internet!('')

('')('')('')

Now imagine that when that above post was posted, it received eight stars. Then it was followed up by a few witty one liners from a couple more members and then the thread was silent.

I would feel like a total loser for sharing what I thought was something that could benefit everyone and for that I was shown just how stupid I was. Not only that but everyone seems to be agreeing with that post by the amount of stars. I would rethink everything and probably not address the issue again.

This is the sort of thing that goes on and I can't stand it. I thoroughly cannot stand the little emoticons as well! Sometimes the posts like this have a cute picture or something. Now this is going on in the mid east type threads a lot. I'm sure they are everywhere that this gang wants to supress knowledge and force an agenda.

How is this productive? When the posters of such stuff are questioned they ignore the well thought out post and further alienate people by doing so. They cannot take a real stance on a real issue and would rather foment a feeling of stupidity for even raising an issue. Is this what ATS is all about? Hell no.



[edit on 1-3-2010 by jackflap]

reply to post by Blaine91555

I read far more of those threads than I respond to. I have noticed there are gangs on your side and the other side. You would call those that agree with you your friends and if on the other side you would call them a gang. They likely consider you and your friends a gang and themselves to be friends.

The truth is that a lot of people on ATS enjoy my posts and have selected me as a friend. That is for me a very humbling thing, and I know at times people who admire my position and stance on things in general will star almost anything I post because it was me that posted it.

I know I am not the only one on ATS that has that kind of popularity and the same holds true for others on the opposite sides of the issues I post on.

What I don’t do though is make private appeals for stars or coordinate efforts privately with others in organized ongoing attempts to pursue another poster, their post or threads or an agenda.

I do have an overall agenda and motive in my posts I think we all do. In my particular case it’s to promote peace where some feel war is the only or preferred solution. I don’t personally believe anything gets solved in that kind of confrontational manner and I don’t feel we live in a world where powerful and wealthy vested interests see a profit in peace at times, as peace costs nothing and earns nothing in the way of dollars and cents but bombs and bullets and rebuilding smashed infrastructure does.

I am pretty upfront and clear about that agenda though a lot of people like to imagine its because I am Islamic (not) live in a foreign country (don’t I live in the U.S.A.) was born in a foreign country (not I was born in the U.S.A.) or am somehow paid or fed by a Middle Eastern/Islamic Agenda (definitely not) I simply favor peace and dialogue over the destructiveness and death and expense of war.

Yet the truth is organizations like the Israeli Internet Defense Force are very real and do coordinate efforts with people who are willing to post on the Internet to promote Israeli causes.

That’s about as organized as you can get, and it’s naïve to assume no one in the world and no one on ATS is a member of the Israeli Internet Defense Force.

I don’t know of any Islamic organizations that promote the same strategy but that doesn’t rule out they don’t exist.

I do know for a fact agents of our own government lurk and sometimes post on the site though I don’t know whether it’s purely as a concerned volunteer or it’s an organized and or paid effort.

I imagine that if agents from our government are doing this those agents from other governments do so too, though I don’t know which ones can prove it or care to prove it.

I imagine that certain corporations also have a presence; I get spam from time to time on my private email account from companies looking to hire paid bloggers to promote products and agendas.
To what extent all of this takes place on the Internet is a matter of conjecture since it’s so hard to prove.

As I am trying to say there is a line, a line where it ceases to be just like minded posters who gravitate towards the same threads, and becomes like minded posters coordinating their activities behind the scenes.

I rarely even send out U2U’s to advise people I have started a thread, I am not looking for stars or flags just to post my conscious, true opinion, and what factual information I have learned through a colorful and well traveled life that’s included a lot of study on a wide range of topics.

I am not a political hack or stooge, not on the left, not on the right, not liberal, not conservative, but rather open minded except when it comes to violence and war.

There I simply refuse to believe calmer heads can not prevail and that dialogue could not reach a satisfactory and peaceful conclusion and solution if the hotter heads simply considered the same.

I understand that some of those people are so entrenched in their positions for various reasons that they are never going to consider more peaceful and less expensive alternatives.

I understand that they are going to make efforts to make their case for more expensive violent alternatives.

Yet keeping in the spirit of ATS they might want to consider doing it in a way that addresses facts, addresses thoughtful questions put to them, maintains a degree of civility and deals with the substance of the issues and not just the poster or trying to dominate and derail the debate through efforts to isolate and single out trivial details and then to expound on them post after post going further off topic and becoming less civil in the process.

And yes it takes two to keep that process going.

As I have pointed out, you do see differences between when this occurs naturally through like minded posters banding together like two ships passing in the night, and when those ships are instead sailing as a coordinated navy.

The point of this thread is to highlight the perceived differences and appeal to those Admirals to at least be consciences posters, keep it on topic, make a real attempt to prove your own arguments, put your opinions forth as opinions when that’s all they are, accept if you can’t prove your opinion its not the other person’s responsibility to disprove your opinion if they don’t share it, to not use coordinated peer pressure tactics, to remain civil, to not deliberately skirt T & C baiting, and civility rules, occasionally stepping over the line and hope that a moderator isn’t looking.

To keep ATS a quality oriented sight.

No not every gang situation is a forum gang, yet it’s silly when we know that organizations exist to maximize the value of the internet to push an agenda or product that forum gangs don’t exist.

This is really asking members to consider, are you yourself part of a forum gang or do things in tandem or combination constantly with other members in a way that would technically make you a forum gang.

To ask those members if they really imagine if they are making ATS a better place or a worse place in the process, and to ask them if what ever agenda or grudge they are pursuing is worth dragging the forums down in pursuit of them.

In my humble opinion some of these forum gang activities are becoming more blatant and as such more embolden and as such starting to impact the quality of more and more forums and threads.

I am asking everyone to do a check up from the neck up and consider there own actions and to consider their fellow posters and to consider the site.

Too much to ask for? I don’t think so, ATS is a great site and a home of sorts to a lot of us lets respect that, those who are playing games know who they are and why they are doing it.

I am making this appeal to any and all for a very real reason. Some people make excuses, some try to make the world a better place.




[edit on 1/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I have noticed that there are 4/5 members that partake in threads when a particular member comes in to share his/her insight, I don't put it down to gang activity just reminds me of the school playground where everyone wants to be friends with the popular ones.

I must say though that all 4/5 members are not trouble makers and that they are very well educated in their own topics.

I must say though I am very interested to see this political thread everyones talking about

So just because a few people show up in a short amount of time on your threads and disagree with you that constitutes them being forum gangs?

Tell me what do you call those who do agree with you, who show up in a short amount of time and star and flag you?

Maybe you don't solicite stars and flags and maybe you do. I can't prove one way or another. Just lilke you can't back up your claims about them soliciting stars and flags.

Stop being an infant and crying over stars and flags. If you are as popular as your ego makes you out to be then you have nothing to worry about.

While I agree that "birds of a feather flock together", I've noticed questionable postings that seem to be the same individual posting as different users.

Those who are the "writers" and "fighters" on ATS, don't you sometimes recognize the same sentence phrasing, syntax, vocabulary, sentence length, etc. in some threads? Of course, individuals in some countries write with the same phrasing, but not with all the other attributes the same.

There may be groups that attempt to sway public opinion into their agenda, or others that are actively recruiting like minded individuals. Or maybe TPTB conspiracy?

I dunno, seems like a waste of time to me. I guess a certain percentage of the population is just that way.

Please like me, validate me!

reply to post by Berserker01

Stop being an infant and crying over stars and flags. If you are as popular as your ego makes you out to be then you have nothing to worry about.

This is a pretty good example of something that just adds nothing of substance to a thread.

Not only is the thread not about stars and flags but this is the kind of statement clearly meant to denigrate others for no real reason based on the content of the thread or the post.

Some would call it baiting or trolling, I just call it silly.

To a certain extent we all have to filter out what doesn't apply, the qualified statements that precede this more inflamatory ones of maybe you are maybe you aren't and then that rush to some kind of imagined absolute conclusion.

Part of the rise of some of the gang activity is an increase in these kinds of silly statements that don't add substance to the post and could be said in kinder ways...

Example...I think some people are immature when it comes to stars and flags and that COULD be part of the problem

or, Ben Franklin would take it one step further and say "Some people are of the opinion that pursuing stars and flags and worrying about them are a sign of immaturity".

In this last example it gives people something to ponder so they can decide if that's the case with out anyone having to make an absolute derogatory and inflamatory accusatory statement especially without considering the many points and opinions already brought up in the thread.

This thread is about reminding people to play nicely with others to keep the forums productive so people aren't inclined to take things off topic responding on a personal and emotional level to insults or flames, and to ask are some people engaged in coordinated group efforts to post just those kinds of comments to derail threads and take them off track from larger issues they don't want to speak to and don't want anyone else to speak to either?

Some food for thought there.



[edit on 1/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I see things in black and white.

Not only did you not answer my question, but you just focused on me telling you the honest truth and tried to turn it around to make me look like the bad guy.

In my black and white world (the only world that matters) that is you being an infant.

Call me a troll, a forum gang member or silly all you like. Your bellyaching doesn't matter in my world.

Yes I've experienced it, last night even, but I don't care. The mods/admins have already shown me personally how they feel about me, so now I'm doing things my way but just within the confines of the rules so that I don't violate T&C.

I no longer look to any of these mods,admin,staff as people of importance, or someone to talk to when things go wrong here, and if I could place them on ignore I would do so. They are part of the "gang problem", encourage it, so you should simply take a new approach to what it is you post and how you post it.

Originally posted by Berserker01
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I see things in black and white.

Not only did you not answer my question, but you just focused on me telling you the honest truth and tried to turn it around to make me look like the bad guy.

In my black and white world (the only world that matters) that is you being an infant.

Call me a troll, a forum gang member or silly all you like. Your bellyaching doesn't matter in my world.

Fair enough,

I appreciate you telling us all about your world.

We know now something matters to you.

Yet some might wonder why post on a forum if you can't also fairly consider what matters to others?

The likely answer would be to pursue what only matters to a person, and them only, which some would also question the maturity of.

Food for thought.

Thanks for posting.

I love this site's content but I find that I run into many whiners crying about this and that.. People take their forums pretty seriously

reply to post by Berserker01


I venture to say that you have completely misunderstood, or purposefully misconstrued the intent of the OP.

I don't know PT well, in fact I know very little about him ... what I do know is that he is more than adept at standing his own ground and defending himself, even in instances where groups of folk either by serendipity or intent disagree with him on a thread. After all, he has been here long enough to know and accept the consequences of speaking one's mind.

From what I glean, because motives on a forum aren't always overt, his observations are more protective in nature. That is to say that he probably has observed this behavior against newer, perhaps younger, less suspecting members ... who post in earnest only to be confronted by an aggressive barrage from the 'usual suspects.

Ultimately though, and this perhaps is where I diverge slightly with PT's take on this, is that this is for better or worse part and parcel of this arena. Eventually every member gets faced with situations like that and how they react to them defines who they are and their user experience. So whereas PT would wish for perhaps more 'protection' I would wish to cross that hurdle asap.

It is no small point to make, at least in my own experience, that the greatest contribution ATS has made to my life has not been in the volume of acquired previously unknown information, but as a result of my interactions with other members/people here. If attentive to it, a great deal can be learned about ourselves through the ATS experience.

reply to post by Berserker01

So just because a few people show up in a short amount of time on your threads and disagree with you that constitutes them being forum gangs?

No I don't think that and in previous lengthy posts to this thread I explained why.

There are patterns that are tell tale between flash mobs and organized efforts.

Flash mobs are reactionary they are not forum gangs.

When a certain level of proactive coordination is evident that is quite different than flash mobs gravitating around and reacting to an emotional hot topic.

Long time posters tend to notice the difference better than people who seldom post or don't post at all.

People who post to controversial issues tend to notice the difference better than people who seldom post or don't post at all.

There are very real patterns in flash mobs, there are very real patterns in forum gang behavior.

When a thread has been dead for hours, and only a few people have posted to it, but the majority of them are those suspect gang members and then one post suddenly appears and within seconds or moments half a dozen stars show up on the post, more stars than posters in a short amount of time where its not a natural occurence that so many other people would hit on a thread dead for hours or even days, then chances are its a forum gang and not a flash mob.

When its combined with certain posting patterns it becomes more suspect, people simply looking to discredit a specific poster, with off topic avenues and inflamatory language.

When they are known to have done it in thread after thread in conjunction with the same people in thread after thread then it becomes even more suspect.

There are patterns, there are signs, forum gangs do exist.

Flash mobs do exist.

One is proactive.

One is reactionary.

One tends to be at least honest in their posting and trying to prove a position.

One tends to be dishonest in their posting and to discredit and attack posters and not the issues or the posts themselves.

In my world all I see are shades of grey. Black and white are for simple-minded fools.

But maybe it's a vast goyim conspiracy to defame God's master race.


[edit on 1-3-2010 by Crito]

reply to post by jackflap


I often am concerned that mine or other Pegasus members activities could be construed as a "forum gang". Due to this, i go to great pains to conduct my business without regard to any other member, regardless of how i know them.

Stormdancer is an excellent example of someone that i knew before coming to ATS (i think i actually got her to come here, can't remember for sure). But i rarely even see her in the vast expanse of ATS.

Having said that, it is obvious that i have similar interests to other Pegasus members, and will gravitate towards not only their threads, but to threads that attract them.

Speaking of which....i sure wish Zorgon would come back around. Miss having him active here.

reply to post by schrodingers dog

I don't know PT well, in fact I know very little about him ... what I do know is that he is more than adept at standing his own ground and defending himself, even in instances where groups of folk either by serendipity or intent disagree with him on a thread. After all, he has been here long enough to know and accept the consequences of speaking one's mind.

Custer would feel my pain on some of these issues. I take on some real hot button topics and play the Devil’s Advocate on them and personally never take it personal. I manage to illustrate some great moral lessons for some appreciative people in the process, plant some seeds of alternative thought, and liven up a thread at times in ways where something that would quickly be discussed and then overlooked becomes a passionate and lengthy thread that engages a lot of different members on a lot of different levels.

The truth is there are some newer members as you sagely and intuitively guessed who are frustrated by some of the gangs and we have seen during this thread a lot of great posters who purposefully avoid certain topics because of gang activity on them, and some members who don’t post at all because of gang activity.

It really is a learning experience for some.

Life is 85% politics and learning to negotiate and communicate with others to establish your wants and needs and make those necessary compromises with others to realize your goals.

No man is an island; we all get by with a little help from our friends.

Some friends are friends of ours, and some people are our friends, which is Italian Mafia lingo that denotes a difference between those who sometimes help us and we help in return, and those who are actually part of a family of friends with a shared agenda that not any rule, consideration or law is going to keep them from trying their level best to realize.

In other words in that latter example an organized gang.

In other words in that former example simply opportunities for one person to befriend another and benefit in some limited and random reactionary way and not an organized and proactive way, and yes when you consider J. Edgar Hoover claimed for years there was no such thing as the Mafia spotting organized gangs is not always easy.

Yet just because one refuses to believe they exist or to consider them doesn’t mean they aren’t having an impact.

The forum gang activity is becoming more brazen and the gangs that are operating more entrenched and getting more persistent and sophisticated in their efforts.

Some people actually think I am paranoid or at the least would like others to think the same.

The truth is I would prefer that some of the people engaged in these behaviors and activities become a bit more paranoid themselves by highlighting the issue and raising the level of awareness so they start having reason to step down their activity instead of stepping it up.

The only thing that it takes for evil to succeed is good people to do nothing in the face of it.

I am doing something. I sure don’t personally believe it’s for evil purposes but just yet another attempt in which many of us make many to make ATS a friendlier more productive place.

Absolute great insights and phenomenal advice as usual SD!

Thanks for your interest on this topic and sharing.


[edit on 1/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Its not very hard to tell that there are members on ATS who are not here to deny ignorance. But to be ignorant. Every forum has these type of individuals. You should be happy that ATS is nothing like Liveleak.

There you can really feel the peoples anger and hate. Sometimes i wonder about some people on ATS. They really don't belong here and should seriously consider joining Liveleak where they can dump all their shiit.

Originally posted by Crito
In my world all I see are shades of grey. Black and white are for simple-minded fools.

But maybe it's a vast goyim conspiracy to defame God's master race.

[edit on 1-3-2010 by Crito]

You are entitled to think that I am a simple minded fool. I can see where you would see the gray in that.

In my black and white world you would do one of two things.

1. Not insult me because you would never do it face to face.

or

2. Insult me because you know that most likely would never have the oppurtunity to do it to my face and there by default you have successfully become a keyboard commando.

In your world of shades of gray you have 3 options.

The two above and....

3. Insult me even though you would never take up the oppurtunity to do it to my face.

Since you live in the gray area, I think you would jump on option 3 the fastest

In other words your insults are effect me very little since they come from a coward.


Now its time for you to continue with your tough talk.