Fallen Angel; Archangel

I had previously posted this thread elsewhere; I think this is more appropriate.

In this thread, I am trying to explore ideas that may often be overlooked. My experience with religion has raised some questions and concerns. I try to follow religion with logic as a key. Logic is a fundamental part of language. The use of logic in language helps structure ideas and thought in a manner that allows more information to be inferred,than from only words. language and its development are very closely related to logic; therefore, messages written in word can be decoded with logic.

There are some ideas I have seen in Religion and some connections I see. I would like to hear about all peoples viewpoints.

It is a concern of mine, for a long time. What do other people think about this?

___If: Satan is a Fallen Angel, and he has come here to protect his Angels.

1. Satan is or was at one time viewed in the eye of god as an Angel.

2. He is not in haven. He is here to protect the Angels.

I. To worship Satan, is to worship becoming an Angel.

II. He is on earth to protect Angels.

a. Protecting is a positive; as an idea and a message.

b. Angels on earth; this is a symbol for something, words can be symbols.

i. Angels are usually thought to be female.

ii. Female on earth : girls (children) Ladies (Un Wed)
Women (Wed)
(this is my understanding of these
words)
x. Protect Female on Earth ( I think this idea is supposed to re enforce
| the idea of triangle. The triangle can be
| seen in some Christian Religion. It is
| possible that there may be more than
| one appropriate interpretation of the
| ideas in a Religion. This seems more
| than probable to efficiently allow
| information to be encoded in the words.
|
| A possible interpretation of the triangle is:
|
| . . . . . . . . Son (child)
| . . . . . . . . . / \
| . . . . Father____ Mother(Angel)
| This idea resembles that of a family, an essential
| idea in the survival of humans. And pyramids
| on the horizon would look similiar to this idea.
| The consistency with these similiar ideas tends
| to lead me to think they are not unintentional.
| This could be summarized as "support family." )
xx. Support Family

____*Then:

Satan is or was at one time viewed in the eye of god as an Angel. He is
not in haven. He is on earth. To help people support family.

____**Then: Would people that worship Satan, want to become Angels?
How does a Satanist define an Angel?
What kind of emphasis does a Christian or Satanist put into support
of family?

____***Then: This logic flow leads me to think that the soul of Satan has
dedicated himself to God so much that he came back to earth to
help people.

____****Then: Satan sounds like a very caring person.

I am very interested to hear peoples response to this logic flow. Especially, nice would be any different views available from Christian and Satanic sides.

be kind to others

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Coemgen]

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Coemgen]

reply posted on 21-2-2010 @ 05:40 PM by Icecoldfm


To believe in the word satan you have to believe in the bible. To believe in the bible you have to agree that satan is not good.

My train of thought.



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reply posted on 21-2-2010 @ 05:44 PM by network dude


what does this have to do with secret societies?

Am I missing something?



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reply posted on 21-2-2010 @ 05:48 PM by scooterstrats


Originally posted by network dude
what does this have to do with secret societies?

Am I missing something?


Agreed.Should be moved.

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reply posted on 21-2-2010 @ 05:55 PM by Coemgen


Cults and religions like the Church of Satan have an element of secrecy.

All churches have secrets. The secret Societies that are referenced in other threads in this area often refer back to these ideas. Or are based off of some of them.

I think it is worth opening the mind to view a thought experiment or logic flow whether or not a person will agree with it in the end. Ideas are worth thinking.

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reply posted on 21-2-2010 @ 06:22 PM by SaturnFX


ok, lets start from the beginning then.

1) Satan was and is a angel..actually he was a archangel, top dog in angel class...was the morning star, the right hand of God before the little disagreement

2) Satan rebelled and was cast away with about 1/3rd of the angels of heaven whom joined up to rebel against God

3) Satan was tossed down and walks in the physical, now corrupting the creation of God that actually started the spat to begin with (mankind, or some believe all of physical creation to begin with)

4) Satan is not here to protect angels...they dont need it.

5) Angels have never been known to be women (only hollywood shows that because chicks + wings = cool)...in the bible, angels have only been referred to as masculine...Michael, Gabriel, Jack, Butch, etc...all angellic encounters have been with male angels (incidently, they didnt have wings either...another hollywood mythos because...well, how do you fly without wings..but hey, lets staple some on em anyhow..looks cool...again, chicks with wings equals win)

6) Satanists (not the luciferian flavor as they are more athiest than anything else whom simply mock christianity for a laugh) see an angel..or a fallen angel rather, as one whom stood up against slavery and the bonds of Gods will. The concept is simple...if your going to create a cake, then say nobody is allowed to eat it because you said so, thats just dumb...a fallen angel fights so we can all create our cakes and eat them happily and greedily. the universe is made of many pleasures and understandings of science that can equal the creator...God says dont partake in any of it, ignore your instincts, and dont quest for power...fallen angels say screw that, empower yourself.

7) Will restate the function of Lucifer...he is here to protect angels the way you being tossed in jail are there to protect the inmates....erm...no, your not.

8) Satan and God still yack to each other...typically Satan tempts God with stuff that makes God destroy a persons life to show Satan that he still has uber power and whatnot. Satan (last we heard) still enjoys his freedom away from Gods rule and is not really desiring to apologise for his rebellion. But...they still chat on a almost equal level, just different perspectives. Theoretically God is a bit more powerful than Satan, but they both tend to do their workings through a sort of cold war down on earth...like two people playing chess...they talk intellectually while moving their pieces on the board, gaining a foothold here, losing a area there, etc.



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reply posted on 21-2-2010 @ 06:36 PM by Phlynx




[edit on 27-2-2010 by Coemgen]

reply posted on 21-2-2010 @ 06:36 PM by Phlynx


Originally posted by SaturnFX
ok, lets start from the beginning then.

1) Satan was and is a angel..actually he was a archangel, top dog in angel class...was the morning star, the right hand of God before the little disagreement

2) Satan rebelled and was cast away with about 1/3rd of the angels of heaven whom joined up to rebel against God

3) Satan was tossed down and walks in the physical, now corrupting the creation of God that actually started the spat to begin with (mankind, or some believe all of physical creation to begin with)

4) Satan is not here to protect angels...they dont need it.

5) Angels have never been known to be women (only hollywood shows that because chicks + wings = cool)...in the bible, angels have only been referred to as masculine...Michael, Gabriel, Jack, Butch, etc...all angellic encounters have been with male angels (incidently, they didnt have wings either...another hollywood mythos because...well, how do you fly without wings..but hey, lets staple some on em anyhow..looks cool...again, chicks with wings equals win)

6) Satanists (not the luciferian flavor as they are more athiest than anything else whom simply mock christianity for a laugh) see an angel..or a fallen angel rather, as one whom stood up against slavery and the bonds of Gods will. The concept is simple...if your going to create a cake, then say nobody is allowed to eat it because you said so, thats just dumb...a fallen angel fights so we can all create our cakes and eat them happily and greedily. the universe is made of many pleasures and understandings of science that can equal the creator...God says dont partake in any of it, ignore your instincts, and dont quest for power...fallen angels say screw that, empower yourself.

7) Will restate the function of Lucifer...he is here to protect angels the way you being tossed in jail are there to protect the inmates....erm...no, your not.

8) Satan and God still yack to each other...typically Satan tempts God with stuff that makes God destroy a persons life to show Satan that he still has uber power and whatnot. Satan (last we heard) still enjoys his freedom away from Gods rule and is not really desiring to apologise for his rebellion. But...they still chat on a almost equal level, just different perspectives. Theoretically God is a bit more powerful than Satan, but they both tend to do their workings through a sort of cold war down on earth...like two people playing chess...they talk intellectually while moving their pieces on the board, gaining a foothold here, losing a area there, etc.


If this is Satanism it is a lot different then I thought... it makes sense a bit.



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reply posted on 21-2-2010 @ 06:59 PM by Coemgen


3) I think that the idea of Satan might corrupt people; I do not think that any soul that was raised to the status of angel would ever stop his belief ( in god) and that of himself.

5) To put my understanding in context. At the time a lot of these works were being written, logic tells me that the behavior of most men was far less than Angelic. Therefore, in that time period the context of Angel would most likely have been female, even though there are many male Archangels. That may be disputed, nevertheless, today people think of them as feminine. If God is as powerful as we believe it would be possible for his words to make sense. Only through examination of an idea can it be properly dismissed.

6) That is interesting. The problem I see is that Satanists, do believe that Satan is working against God. Logically, like ying yang everything must be balanced. The real problem is that they believe in the Bible and its teachings and ideas enough that they dislike it. They dislike it so much that a lot of there actions as you have said is done to mock the Bible. That in itself is proof enough that the Satanists believe in the Bible. And they believe in it so much they took a character out of the Bible and glorified him. They even want to believe in the idea of a different religion but with different contexts.

be kind to others

7) The idea of hell was not created so people could want to go there. The idea of haven was created so people could want to go there. Hell purgatory or any variant of the such, is all negative. Haven is all positive.
Logical choices?

8) I think people still need to be responsible for their own actions regardless if they believe in the Devil / Satan / or Lucifer. These ideas are not here to lead us to evil rather deliver us from temptation.
( as in wanting something a person should not want )

I try to use logic and language to come to a rational belief, from my point of view.

I respect everyones ideas, I just want to clarify my own ideas. This may allow people to be able to respond to my ideas better so I can learn.
I think.

Please respond, this thread should contain a Multi diverse spectrum of ideas.



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[edit on 27-2-2010 by Coemgen]

Where does it say that Satan is here to protect Angels?

I don't recall reading that anywhere....

reply to post by Coemgen


First of all. Angel doesn't mean "winged spirit man". Angel means messenger. Anyone who has ever given you a message is an Angel as I'm sure you've been one as well.

Second. Satan means "Adversary". Again, this term "Satan" isn't a being like a personality, it is an "Adversary". Anyone who is your adversary is Satan, likewise if you are anyone's adversary...YOU are Satan. The term only applies one way and that is from the viewers perspective. Satan isn't a horned red half goat man. Satan is an Adversary. God is Satan to some, it all depends on if you call him friend or foe, God or Satan....either way, they are the same.

Third, the triangle is the symbol of the Ark as is a Chevron, because the Ark isn't a boat, it's a pyramid which is why it is called an ARC. As in nothing we trust pointed out another true meaning of the Arc...the pubic area...The cornerstone. It's why we make a V for peace....get a piece...literally.

The only truth is all around you. Truth is something verified. Why would God ask you to believe in things that aren't true? Go to the mirror and ask him/her, them if angels as you "Imagine" them to be are real. Ask to be shown one....only ask in truth. Only be careful, 9 months later you could get your wish.

Peace

[edit on 27-2-2010 by letthereaderunderstand]

reply to post by balrathamir


I did have that in a book somewhere... I have not found it yet.

A question on perspective, do people think that Lucifer wants people to be bad?

Satan is another name often used to refer to the idea of Lucifer. Though, it occurs in literay works more than in religious texts. Except it might be found in "Church of Satan."

My recollection is that the Devil is the entity that would be of a negative light. Some have suggested the Devil is temptation.

How are these ideas connected and how are each of them unique?

reply to post by Coemgen


Read the book of Enoch, Satan is a WATCHER. They are not angels, They were originally sent to watch over and protect mankind. They are Gods, Sons of God himself. They got horny for human women and Jealous of man. They mated with women and had offspring that were the fallen, Nephilm Giants. They had no divine souls.

The Arch Angels are Gods sons and the ultimate powerful angels. Gods generals if you may. The Arch Angels are the ones who captured Satan and his Watchers, bound them and destroyed their bases on earth. God then sent the flood to rid the earth of the Nephilm and all the Watchers created by teaching us the sinful ways of Science.

The Watchers want dominion over earth and will stop at nothing to get it. They are here today pulling the strings of world leaders under the guise of UFOs and fake bio-engineered Grey's that they posses to make seen un-earthly and have special powers.

Watchers are very powerful and they have been described as 8-9ft tall horse faced reptilian gods with wings and two legs. They can posses and take any shape they want to achieve their deception. They have the governments fooled into doing their bidding.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
reply to post by Coemgen

 

Read the book of Enoch, Satan is a WATCHER. They are not angels, They were originally sent to watch over and protect mankind. They are Gods, Sons of God himself. They got horny for human women and Jealous of man. They mated with women and had offspring that were the fallen, Nephilm Giants. They had no divine souls.

The Arch Angels are Gods sons and the ultimate powerful angels. Gods generals if you may. The Arch Angels are the ones who captured Satan and his Watchers, bound them and destroyed their bases on earth. God then sent the flood to rid the earth of the Nephilm and all the Watchers created by teaching us the sinful ways of Science.

The Watchers want dominion over earth and will stop at nothing to get it. They are here today pulling the strings of world leaders under the guise of UFOs and fake bio-engineered Grey's that they posses to make seen un-earthly and have special powers.

Watchers are very powerful and they have been described as 8-9ft tall horse faced reptilian gods with wings and two legs. They can posses and take any shape they want to achieve their deception. They have the governments fooled into doing their bidding.

Semjeza not Satan. Satan is not a person or being. Satan is an action.

It speaks no where in the book of Enoch of bio engineering or Grey's.

Peace

reply to post by Coemgen


According to older texts that were taking out of the now current bibles God created Lucifer or is equal in the tamuld Samael the strongest of all the angels and his second in command he then created the other angels and so on.... Then later on God created man in his image and told the angels to bow to man whom's conceived in God's image... Lucifer got piss mad and refused to bow to a being that was created in second place. Then Satan deceived Lilith whom was Adam's first wife... he made her arrogant and then she wouldn't want to take her place as man's helper or lie below him during sex saying she was his equal and that she had no place under him... Then Satan, Lilith and a couple other angels fled Heaven to the outer part of Eden to the shore's of Ithaca if my memory is right... They had an orgy there and for their sin god transformed Lilith into a monstrous being... the offspring of their sinful act was all the semi-demons turned into the incubus and succubus and all other known impure spirits...

Then God created Eve and warned Adam that Satan was a nifty little bastard but Adam wasn't careful enough and he ate the stupid apple... that why you often see places in the bible where Satan goes freely from earth to heaven and comes back as example when defy God about Job's loyalty...

So picture this... buddy got kicked out of Heaven where he was the second in command walking around with his shinny armor and his blings and got demoted I bet you'd want revenge for a lonnnnnggg time too...

The part where he's cast out of heaven or that he fled is unclear it varie's from scriptures from what I read a long time ago.

Satan is not the TRUE name of the initial angel in question... Satan means "The Accuser" he accused men of not being worthy of God's love and tried to deceived them to prove himself right... its simply a nickname...

reply to post by Coemgen


your getting Sataneal and Lucifer confused. Different Besties. Lucifer is pro human (albeit a "tempter"). Sataneal is a qliphotic demon with no positive aspects.

In Lucifer being the "light bearer", he brings wisdom (Prometheus?). Wisdom is gained by experience, usually the school of hard knocks.

Originally posted by _R4t_
reply to post by Coemgen

 

According to older texts that were taking out of the now current bibles God created Lucifer or is equal in the tamuld Samael the strongest of all the angels and his second in command he then created the other angels and so on.... Then later on God created man in his image and told the angels to bow to man whom's conceived in God's image... Lucifer got piss mad and refused to bow to a being that was created in second place. Then Satan deceived Lilith whom was Adam's first wife... he made her arrogant and then she wouldn't want to take her place as man's helper or lie below him during sex saying she was his equal and that she had no place under him... Then Satan, Lilith and a couple other angels fled Heaven to the outer part of Eden to the shore's of Ithaca if my memory is right... They had an orgy there and for their sin god transformed Lilith into a monstrous being... the offspring of their sinful act was all the semi-demons turned into the incubus and succubus and all other known impure spirits...

Then God created Eve and warned Adam that Satan was a nifty little bastard but Adam wasn't careful enough and he ate the stupid apple... that why you often see places in the bible where Satan goes freely from earth to heaven and comes back as example when defy God about Job's loyalty...

So picture this... buddy got kicked out of Heaven where he was the second in command walking around with his shinny armor and his blings and got demoted I bet you'd want revenge for a lonnnnnggg time too...

The part where he's cast out of heaven or that he fled is unclear it varie's from scriptures from what I read a long time ago.

Most of this I put to Paul/Peter hating women. Lilith also had the name of the "Almighty". The "shemhamephorash" or 72 letter name of God. Got the name, got the power! She could lead the "boss" around by the short curlies if she desired as such LOL!

What I personally find interesting, is in Job 1:6,7 where the Angel go before God in a heavenly court and God ask Satan: "Where were you?" or "Where have you been?". As if to say "Your late Satan, the meeting started 15 minutes ago..."

The idea of angel as referred to in the "Book of Enoch."

In this text, the reference to the idea of Angel is closely connected to the female - male relationship. It is depicted that the actions of individuals that defiled and disrespect women are not able to go to haven.

This is represented by the ideas of the Giants that are 3,000 ells or arm lengths tall. The behaviors of disrespect for women and daughters and children and the defilement of such, is the reasoning given that persons guilty of such sin are not able to go to Haven.

And it is notable, that behaviors of these giants that are not acceptable are violence and consumption of blood or flesh.

A moral that relates to these ideas.

be kind to others

[edit on 27-2-2010 by Coemgen]

reply to post by In nothing we trust


Here's an army i'd wage war to allllll nighhhttt lonnngggg lol

Originally posted by _R4t_
Satan is not the TRUE name of the initial angel in question... Satan means "The Accuser" he accused men of not being worthy of God's love and tried to deceived them to prove himself right... its simply a nickname...

Satan is not a being. Never was, never will be.

Think about this.

Jesus said, "if satan be against satan his kingdom can not stand". Think...is Satan against Satan? If satan isn't against satan, then his kingdom will stand according to what Jesus is saying.

Is adversary against adversary? That's what you need to say instead of Satan. In hebrew when you say saw tawn, you are saying adversary in English.

I repeat, Satan is Adversary, not a horned Goat man. Anyone can be your satan, as you can be also. It's like having a Valentine...Be mine.

Peace

Originally posted by _R4t_
reply to post by Coemgen

 

According to older texts that were taking out of the now current bibles God created Lucifer or is equal in the tamuld Samael the strongest of all the angels and his second in command he then created the other angels and so on.... Then later on God created man in his image and told the angels to bow to man whom's conceived in God's image... Lucifer got piss mad and refused to bow to a being that was created in second place. Then Satan deceived Lilith whom was Adam's first wife... he made her arrogant and then she wouldn't want to take her place as man's helper or lie below him during sex saying she was his equal and that she had no place under him... Then Satan, Lilith and a couple other angels fled Heaven to the outer part of Eden to the shore's of Ithaca if my memory is right... They had an orgy there and for their sin god transformed Lilith into a monstrous being... the offspring of their sinful act was all the semi-demons turned into the incubus and succubus and all other known impure spirits...

Then God created Eve and warned Adam that Satan was a nifty little bastard but Adam wasn't careful enough and he ate the stupid apple... that why you often see places in the bible where Satan goes freely from earth to heaven and comes back as example when defy God about Job's loyalty...

So picture this... buddy got kicked out of Heaven where he was the second in command walking around with his shinny armor and his blings and got demoted I bet you'd want revenge for a lonnnnnggg time too...

The part where he's cast out of heaven or that he fled is unclear it varie's from scriptures from what I read a long time ago.

Adam isn't a guy. Adam means "ruddy, red in the face, mankind". Eve is not a woman, Eve is "Life giver".

What was first, the serpent or the egg?