I'm pissed!! (political trolls and hacks)

As a new member and mainly a reader of ATS I must say I agree with the fact that some people can get carried away with their own opinions and forget that someone else even someone whose belief they may not agree with still has something to contribute to the thread as a whole.

Also should this or could this apply to all threads?

Maybe its worse in the political threads but from what I have seen everywhere it is a problem that could apply to all subjects. "Trolls" invade every thread at some point and can derail a topic from real discussion simply because someone else posted something they disagree with and then attack them personally and continue thru-out the thread and they become the subject instead of the OP's topic of discussion.

Some threads are in and of themselves trolling subjects and invite immediate discourse even if it wasn't the OP's original intent. Then the whole thing again becomes about them. Maybe it has something to do with that 15 minutes of fame that we seem to chase...even if its 15 words of hate or agreement as even that sometimes can get out of hand.

Politics have always been a touchy subject and maybe just maybe thats what TPTB want. Discourse and getting people off the subject at hand and attacking each other instead of talking about the ideas that work because I do believe that everyone's opinion in the end has some merit and can be used to craft the overall solution...or at least a common ground that we can all live with.

So folks let us listen to one another and try to come up with the anwsers intead of insults and name calling!

I think you're right in saying it's a fight you'll never win, yet it's worth fighting... It's not the Win we are after, just local improvements in the quality of entert-info we can get here at ATS. Most seasoned members are great at starving the trolls, but surely reminders will be necessary every so often.

reply to post by SonicInfinity


Well I was just pointing out a type of troll type comment in a thread about being a troll.

I hate to alert unless a thread is being sidetracked.

Originally posted by jackflap


Applause! Can anyone tell me how we should approach the political forums in the manner that Skeptic would like to see?

I would be glad to....

Now read along and follow carefully.

Do not troll.... That is all that is being asked here....

That said, I ask as a member and not a mod that for the sake of ATS, all of us please read and take seriously what SO has said here...

Trolling on this site has become a mainstay and that is a problem because trolling is not what ATS is supposed to be about. ATS is about Denying ignorance ( A mantra which is not uttered quite as often as it used to be around here). And to deny ignorance we must not allow ourselves to be trolled, and we must not become trolls ourselves...

ATS is a site where people from all the around the world can come together and discuss, pretty much any topic you can think of. It is supposed to be a place free from ridicule, hatred, and bashing one another for no reason other than disagreeing...

Here we are supposed to discuss things in a civil and intelligent manner. As of late, that seems to have been forgotten by quite a few, and I find that to be a shame...

When we say that we are the greatest site on the internet... It is not just a meme, it is the truth; And it is the truth because we have a reputation within the conspiracy community for having the most intelligent members, the best moderation and the best topics which are discussed in a civil manner as they should be...

And if we wish to keep this reputation we must continue to Deny ignorance. This is not something that only the more veteran members can do, this is something that we are all expected to do.

Now what SO's thread boils down to is this:

1. Don't be a troll.

If you are a troll you are doing the exact opposite of what is expected of you here.. You embrace ignorance and try to force it upon everyone else by not allowing them to discuss a topic. You suck them in and make them trolls as well. Don't do it....

2. Don't feed the trolls

Just don't do it... Remember that popular quote " If you build it, they will come"? Well, the same goes for trolls, if you feed them, they will come.

Just do not respond to them, Completely ignore them. Trolls do not deserve a response from the likes of us. Trolls will try to pull you down to their level, but if you give them no energy they cannot. All they can do is die.

Instead of responding to them just hit the alert button. Maybe even send a U2U to a mod. Do not hesitate to use the complaint/suggestion feature either!

Let the staff take care of the trolls.

There you have it... It is a very simple request in which everyone should be able to understand. Do not troll and do not feed the trolls.

Thank you all.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by gimme_some_truth]

There should be a troll button like there is a star button. Receive a certain number of troll clicks and your post is deleted. One step further, if you star a post that ends up getting deleted for trolling violation, your post over the last couple days should be deleted. Problem solved and.... I would like to say that strawberry jelly is far superior to grape jelly. People who prefer grape also smoke crack.

Originally posted by psyko45
My two cents...This sounds like censorship of an open intelectual forum. I dont ever here any street thug yo mamma threats or direct insults. I see alot of give and take and mutual respect here. Maybe its the specialized superbrainiacs that should 'take it outside' sometimes.

I kind of agree with you about the censorship bit, but a the same time if you let everything slide, the whole thing quickly spirals out of control.
I'm sure it's quite a bit of work for the mods to spend their time removing posts that don't have anything to do with the topic of the thread.

Despite my appearance on this medium, I’m generally reluctant to share my pseudo-political, philosophical views with anyone who rests outside of my discipline. Most people are trained to argue, not engage in meaningful discourse, which entails actual re-examination and potential reformation of one’s views. In short, emotivist appeals are often the most effective, and I find the most effective way of arguing with the average person is to present an emotivist perspective on reason (irony noted).

Know that you know nothing: Platonic lesson number one. Then acknowledge everybody else knows exactly as much as you - nothing.

Thank you op, i agree 100% im an ex poli sci major, so political forums are a big draw to me, but i cannot say that i visit them here all that often due to the trolling on the boards. I hope that this at least in part helps to curb the trolling nature here.

and to the poster who suggested troll icons and troll points, i beleive this would be a bad idea people would compete to see who could get the most trolls. just like they compete for flags and stars... bad idea...


just my opinion
thank you and good day night depeding on your location in this universe

reply to post by Dock9


Well, what I meant is brushing everyone with a brush, being a troll?

When you specifically attack another member with a cut down that is against the T&C, but if you do it with a brush, meaning a collection of people, is that against the rules?

I have personally caught myself doing it.

Without being specific, as your post wasn't, honestly, 9/10 of my responses which could easily be considered a troll simply because I do not agree with them, but more likely due to the fact the OP of whatever post didn't perform the most basic, remedial research.

Things such as:

creating sensational posts blatantly lying due to OP not understanding an article which has multiple links to the original report.

OP promising a detailed, years long study of X-issue, but fails to provide any sort of footnotes/citation (and believe me, as someone who does take notes- if I were going to claim to make a long study of something I'd do more than type my query into google- I would provide citations- either books, magazines, or even lame websites to validate my super-study).

OP complaining that everyone who doesn't agree with them is against ATS (isn't that the same argument most governments use against any citizen who disagrees with how it works? If you don't like the President you must hate american, and thus be a terrorist...etc)

OP making insanely long diatribes about current events forgetting the most basic and incontrovertible historical facts (this is a fun one).

And the list goes on.

There are a scant few really interesting discussions here, usually under the Science headlines.

As a minor troll of this board I really don't see why it should be our duty to validate any OP's post- the duty falls upon them: their assertion, their proof. Don't ask your audience to provide evidence, and that's 9/10ths of my 'trolling'- me pointing out their lack of credibility, me pointing out the OPs lack of citation, my pointing out the OP failed to follow the links and read the entire article, etc.

Basic, basic, basic things that we all should have learned year 1 in High School English, or for the more enlightened- Comp and Rhetoric I in college. If you simply must state something as fact- you simply must back it up.

So, while I appreciate your view point, and while perhaps I'm not included in your lengthy statement, I fear that you, OP/Site Owner Guy, may be overlooking some of this. I can't say for certain, and it's just a hunch.

I would like to pretend that one day people here could engage in healthy discussions validating their off-the-wall statements with some shred of verifiable evidence, or learn the difference between an opinion and a fact. I'm not holding my breath.

Just me .1cent.

Oh, the reason I originally came to ATS was due to a friend who loooooves this site, so much so that their facebook would be plastered with links to articles here as being "The Truth". In order to knock some sense into this person I decided to see what ATS was all about. What I found is what I expected: no evidence, no facts, lots of assertions without citations, all google-researched at BEST. Lame. The thing that brings me back is the once a week interesting article that'll pop up. Bless 'em all, for they are a rarity.

I sense some are beginning to approach this thread from a perspective with which I disagree. Specificity is not required. I have heard some good and some questionable comments and questions and would like to presume to share my perspective for your consideration.

This is not "Bill's" decree or even Bill's personal agenda. I rarely feel comfortable speaking for others, but I will risk doing so now.

I believe most members of our community do not want to accept e-thuggery, bullying, baiting, and inappropriate displays of e-ego as part of our experience here. Respect is not a 'gift' here, it is currency.

Some people seems to be unable or unwilling to accept that it is quite possible to express an idea or disagree without having to resort to base pejoratives or inflammatory prodding.

But I am not telling you anything you don't already know.

This idea is not about anything other than a simple axiom:

ATS is better than that.

Originally posted by smarteye
Receive a certain number of troll clicks and your post is deleted.

I think it's been stated somewhere before that the ATS staff does not like giving users negative attention. That's why we don't have negative flags, negative stars, etc. If you believe the post to be a troll post and worthy of being deleted, you should use the Alert button so that the staff can decide.

Troll is such a harsh word.

As is sheep or sheeple - but scores of persons continue to use the terms on this very site.

One mans troll is another mans hero.

I bet at the meetings of the GREATER BRITISH COLONY ALLIANCE AND BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU OF THE SOON TO BE THE AMERICAS John Hancock and George Washington were called trolls, while all of the people siding with the Brits were called sheeple.

Its a battle that has been around longer than the net itself ( for you younger folks - no the net has not been around forever )

All joking put to the side, I think something does need to be done about trolling. Ignoring them may be the only response, if not the best response.

I was involved in a thread or 2 a while back regarding Osama yo Daddy and if he is dead or alive.

I stated my view and other posters stated their views and guess what? After pages and pages of posts - WE ALL STILL HAD THE SAME VIEWS.

The political portion of this site is very similar to the singular thread. I know what I know and you know what you know and by god if anyone is changing.

Trolls will simply reinforce the strong bullheaded attitude so many of us have. But do not get caught in the web of "you dont agree with me? You must be a troll ( sheep - sheeple - etc )" I have been called that many times here because my thoughts varied from the person slinging the names.

A troll is a troll is a troll - but disagreeing with you does not make me one.

Dorian Soran
The thoughtful doctor

It's amazing how different ideologies can create division. What most people are not aware of is that the very foundation of ideology is beliefs. Sometimes, beliefs brings out the worst in humans as they try to manipulate and influence others to their own illusions of truth, in order to secure their ego.

Hope we'll all find constructive solutions to the problem which is discussed in this thread. The best solution (ideal) would be for members who exchange to stay objective at all times (no emotions involved), but unfortunately, it's hard to counter basic human nature.



[edit on 26-2-2010 by lagenese]

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Thank you

Most of us frequent a number of fora. As a rule, the same topics are being discussed, most of them drawn from the mass media. In fact, I've witnessed posts (and thread topics) from one or other forum being posted here in ATS, almost word for word

Some forums are more liberal as regards language, but generally, threads provide a wide array of opinions

Almost all forums separate topics into categories, i.e., 'paranormal', 'general', etc., although there tends to be overlap

'Trolls', as I've understood the term (possibly incorrectly) are generally regarded as those who interrupt online discussion with one or two lines of gibberish, often including profanity. Very often, the 'troll' posts are out of context. They could be likened to a child dashing into a room and baring its bottom in order to deliberately disrupt conversation, before dashing out again

Having read the OP's comments here however, it seems he has an expanded version of 'troll' in mind. And throughout this thread, people have expressed confusion (despite the OP's warning that anyone who does profess confusion is to be regarded as a 'troll')

Others in this thread have felt it necessary to try to enlighten people regarding 'trolls' and 'trolling' behaviours

Is the term 'troll' thus determined by 'the eye of the beholder' ? Is your 'troll' different to my 'troll' ?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Well said.

Now if something could be done about Astroturfing...

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by SonicInfinity

 

Your example of the birth certificate. What if that person feels that even though it has been hashed to death here,he/she still feels it hasn't been properly vetted. Is that Trolling because he doesn't feel it's been talked about enough?
Interesting dichotomy!
Zindo

My 2 cents:

There are people as equally convinced of the "birther" position as as of the "9/11 truth." They are equally valid in the eyes of the respective beholders, and thus not "trolling."

On the other hand ( my other 1 cent), when a member posts in response to one or the other," That's just more typical (fill-in-the-blank) delusions. As deluded as the rest of the (Choose: bither/9/11 truther) hysterics." THAT is argumentative, adds nothing to the discussion, and a troll. (imho)

Keep the change.

jw

Originally posted by smarteye
There should be a troll button like there is a star button. Receive a certain number of troll clicks and your post is deleted.

I think that is a damn good idea, really wish it could be implemented.

Another thing that should probably be added is a special "brown noser alert" button.

Have you ever noticed how whenever someone like SO, Springer or certain Super Mods happen to chime in out of the blue on any particular topic, certain members quickly respond by giving them a quick star and a quick response?

Why?
Do they think they'll get special favors and points?

This to me is more of an epidemic than the trolling issue.
I guess some people are just natural born, brown nosing, yes men.

Edit: update to prove my point.
85 flags plus 41 more stars as of the time of this edit.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Alxandro]

Does this mean I won't be called an obsessed.delusional, obama hating,birther, racist,who is barely hanging on anymore?I'll believe that when I see it.I don't see why SO is so "pissed"maybe if some even handed moderating was exercised it wouldn't get to this point?

reply to post by Alxandro


Yeah,I remember the springer shill thread where he was trying to get us to buy some dorks record,it got like 100 flags.Suck ups suck!

Edit star for your clean nose!

[edit on 25-2-2010 by genius/idoit]