I'm pissed!! (political trolls and hacks)

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Argh ... I feel terrible that it even had to come to this.
But it always does doesn't it?

I joined shortly before the elections and you (staff) and us (members) had to go through this every month almost (and several times since) to remind folks to stay on topic, stop the personal attacks, and cease political trolling. I imagine the same expression of frustration had been expressed many times before as well.

And yet we keep coming back to it. And it's not staffs fault for these things don't hit us with a hammer, they seep in drop by drop, thread by thread, post by post, until one day we realize we're overwhelmed and taken over by this virus that contaminates not only the political forums, but leaks in to the entire energy of the board and makes what once was fun, an ordeal.

Personally, I rarely if ever go in political threads anymore mostly for the reasons outlined in your OP, and quite frankly I fear what I might one day say. I pray that this latest "calibration" does the job and I for one will do what I can to lead by example. It's just, and don't take this the wrong way, I have trusted in these announcements before and ... well, let's just say the resolve faded. But I will trust again for I love this community which, despite these issues, is incredibly rewarding to me personally.

To tell you the truth, over the last year I have been tempted to revive the "Bully Pulpit" forum by authoring a couple of threads in there. But the forum hasn't been used in a long time, I anticipated it would have started a whole 'thing' with newer members not being aware of the 'pledge' or why they can't post in there, so I thought better leave well enough alone and just avoid most if not all political discourse.

Anyhoot, thanks for once again trying to improve ATS and for reminding those who wish to harm this community that they will not succeed.

2nd line.

How do you separate ignorance from trolling? For instance, if I say:

Congratulations, you are an idiot!

(with bold/italic/underline/headline tags plentiful)

or

lol that obama what a loser he'll be gone soon

It's pretty obvious that it's trolling. However, if I say:

Stop talking about the birth certificate issue. It has been long debated, and there's nothing left to debate. He is qualified to be the President of the United States, and any and all discussion trying to show otherwise is stupid.

That could be considered as trolling to those who think there's still an argument to be had and also tries to restrict the conversation, but if the poster really believes what he is saying, he's not trolling -- he's just ignorant. The motto of ATS is to "deny ignorance," but should ignorance receive the same punishment as trolling? When the line is not so clear, how do you and your staff differentiate between trolling and ignorance? I would think the logical thing to do would be to leave the post up and try to start a conversation with the individual first to see how he responds and then go from there. In the instance that he isn't trolling, it would be better to try and show him his ignorance instead of moderating his post and leaving him bitter.

I wonder if the U2U I sent you guys a week ago has anything to do with this thread...

reply to post by zaiger

Maybe you should just handing out temp post bans till people get the point?

I expect that the owner's fear that doing so could be detrimental to the site's long-term future.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by john124]

reply to post by SonicInfinity


i think thats where the difference is ... if you bring up a specific issue about a valid conspiracy issue and detract from mainstream or off shoot theory your doing your part to keep ats clean. But the overt threads ... im just going to come up with the last few threads i saw that were direct challenges to each other
"The Gay Agenda"
vs
"The Gay Agenda are you serious?"

Thats a thread troll for and vs.

it detracts from the fact finding nature of ats

reply to post by SonicInfinity


Your example of the birth certificate. What if that person feels that even though it has been hashed to death here,he/she still feels it hasn't been properly vetted. Is that Trolling because he doesn't feel it's been talked about enough?
Interesting dichotomy!
Zindo

reply to post by conspiracyrus

"The Gay Agenda"
vs
"The Gay Agenda are you serious?"

I avoided those threads altogether.

Yeah this is why I pretty much stay away from the left, middle, right political threads. It's to easy to insult someone with this level of anonymity, but you do have a reputation here. We remember your name and face (avatar). The only difference is we can't smack them in the face like we would in the "real" world for the insults.

I treat people with respect here, just as in the "real" world.

I expect the same.

Well said sir.

I have noticed the temp or mood of ATS change over a period of time.

It seem to be related to the number of children receiving computers for Christmas.

It is caustic for the winter/spring months then levels out during the summer.

I have attempted to stray away from those threads.

Have you ever considered turning off all stars,flags page views etc. on a possible troll?

They only do it for the attention to begin with.Your sites points system has in some way created competition.

I have even seen people bragging about it on their posts.

There is also a group whom follow another poster around on the forum who is known for pithy remarks and then responds not to the thread but to the remarks he made.

I have seen a thread hijacked just by others making unrelated posts to his comments.

It is unfortunate this is the situation.

I do know now to use the alert button to notify a mod to look at it but I wish that was not needed.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Oneolddude]

reply to post by john124


absolutely ... its a waste of thread space.... there is no conspiracy in it. It is literally one ideology vs another. There is no debate only preference and for the most part its the same way with some political threads. Obama Sucks vs GWB sucks... no fact to be found there ... only trumped up fiction novels that no publisher would touch with a hundred foot pole

Well I honestly couldn't believe I was seeing this thread, because as far as I was aware, 'Pissed' is one of the words that are verboten on ATS, in addition to any attempt to evade the 'swear words' ban, such as 'pizzed', etc.

I'm kinda gonna miss some of these trolls.

I agree some they were excessive at times, but a small percentage of trolls were also actually kinda funny and sometimes, all we can do is laugh.

I wonder if the Workforce Commision will be setting up a special little line for the trolls, now that they've been fired.

First, I think its really cool to be able to adress a company owner in an open forum like this.

Sir, do you like pain? I dont believe this to be an unreasonable question. How many of us out here in cyber land have wireless connections in our homes? Along with the interface for signal interperetation and transmission? Probaly a whole bunch of us. The reason I ask if you like pain is not to be personally inflamatory, but to try to demonstrate just how important 'emotion' is here at ATS. You have children, victims, elderly, veterans, farmers,and factory workers 'lurking' around this site.
And when I came here the only unintelectual thing that I observed was a game of acedemic submission and dominance that used 'dark sarcasm' (pink floyd) to create an elite enviornment for itself.
The percentage of what I would consider outright disruptive I would estimate at 5 maybe.
If the purpose of this thread is to target those 5 then great. But if the purpose is to segregate based on assumed intelligence or technological advancement, then that is not so good.
When using such an invasive medium such as wireless communications one must be careful not to tick off the locals.
The signals from this web-activity are a real and physical thing. So proprietary in nature. But some find it a difficult concept that another person no different from them can own an invisible beam that is shot through thier brain. Some look at internet period..as pollution of the worst kind and would love nothing more than to see its eventual collapse.

Like Google Earth..I believe they owe me money for taking a picture of me without my knowledge and storing it somewhere. Since when is Google the government? I mean if they were filming someone or taking a photo for experiment then immediately deleting..ok..but taking unauthorized photos and storing them..not ok.

Dont mean to rant.

My two cents...This sounds like censorship of an open intelectual forum. I dont ever here any street thug yo mamma threats or direct insults. I see alot of give and take and mutual respect here. Maybe its the specialized superbrainiacs that should 'take it outside' sometimes.

reply to post by conspiracyrus


That's another thing I've been noticing on ATS as of late. Where's all the conspiracy threads going? Just recently, I saw a thread (probably the 10th one this year alone) about "How big are we in the universe?", comparing the Earth to the planets, the sun, the stars, etc. Yeah, that's all fine and dandy, but where is the conspiracy in that thread? It seems more and more threads on ATS are being made for flags and stars instead of actual discussion.

reply to post by Oneolddude

It seem to be related to the number of children receiving computers for Christmas.

TROLL!

I can understand what you are saying in this comment, BUT, is this not a troll type comment?

As for the stars and flags, who is to decide which topic will reach the top?

reply to post by endisnighe


I wish calling another user a "troll" was against the rules on ATS. If he is a troll, there's no reason to give him the attention he's craving. Just alert the post, and let the moderators decide. Every time a user calls another user a "troll", either you are engaging in trolling yourself by pissing off that user (if he's not a troll) or you are giving him a reason to continue since he knows you are paying attention (if he is a troll).

reply to post by SonicInfinity


I'll give you that ... some people are just not good at using the search feature. As well it seems that either some of us forget basic knowledge, or forsake it, in the hopes of getting a flag or 2. Since my time here at ats I developed that sense of "is something post worthy? has it been said before?" at times we fail but the great thing about this site is at least some people ask those questions of themselves before making a new thread or posting.

reply to post by endisnighe


I don't know

*IS* is to be defined as a 'troll type' comment ?

Be good if further examples could be posted

Left wing-right wing: It's all the same bird.
Surely everyone has seen the two-headed bird that faces both left and right? How much clearer can it be made that these divisions are contrived? And whether you cheer for the left or right, the plan at the top will executed either way. It is designed in such a way as to make you think you have a choice. The bird is unified.

This symbol has been used in cultures date that back to antiquity.

The problem with all of this is there is no true general consensus of what trolling is. Moreover, when you're dealing with mods and admins who obviously operate in the realm of preference and bias, and have sycophants doing their usual act, things are bound to be misinterpreted and BAM! There goes the ban hammer or -1,000 ATS points for an infraction.

Now S.O., you made this thread and I have a question for you. If someone posts about the illogical belief in "the right to vote" or any other voting madness, and they make it a point to post in those threads because they believe it is a conspiracy, are they trolling?