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'Moon rock' given to Dutch museum by Apollo 11 astronots is petrified wood!
page: 1share:
This BBC story is about 6 months old, but I don't remember having seen it. Unbelievable!
Fake Dutch 'moon rock' revealed
A treasured piece at the Dutch national museum - a supposed moon rock from the first manned lunar landing - is nothing more than petrified wood, curators say.
It was given to former Prime Minister Willem Drees during a goodwill tour by the three Apollo 11 astronauts shortly after their moon mission in 1969.
When Mr Drees died, the rock went on display at the Amsterdam museum.
At one point it was insured for around $500,000 (£308,000), but tests have proved it was not the genuine article.
The Rijksmuseum, which is perhaps better known for paintings by artists such as Rembrandt, says it will keep the piece as a curiosity.
"It's a good story, with some questions that are still unanswered," Xandra van Gelder, who oversaw the investigation that proved the piece was a fake, was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.
"We can laugh about it."
The "rock" had originally been been vetted through a phone call to Nasa, she added.
The US agency gave moon rocks to more than 100 countries following lunar missions in the 1970s.
US officials said they had no explanation for the Dutch discovery.
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
news.bbc.co.uk...
Fake Dutch 'moon rock' revealed
A treasured piece at the Dutch national museum - a supposed moon rock from the first manned lunar landing - is nothing more than petrified wood, curators say.
It was given to former Prime Minister Willem Drees during a goodwill tour by the three Apollo 11 astronauts shortly after their moon mission in 1969.
When Mr Drees died, the rock went on display at the Amsterdam museum.
At one point it was insured for around $500,000 (£308,000), but tests have proved it was not the genuine article.
The Rijksmuseum, which is perhaps better known for paintings by artists such as Rembrandt, says it will keep the piece as a curiosity.
"It's a good story, with some questions that are still unanswered," Xandra van Gelder, who oversaw the investigation that proved the piece was a fake, was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.
"We can laugh about it."
The "rock" had originally been been vetted through a phone call to Nasa, she added.
The US agency gave moon rocks to more than 100 countries following lunar missions in the 1970s.
US officials said they had no explanation for the Dutch discovery.
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
news.bbc.co.uk...
What if it was the original article? That would be even more shocking!!
i think theres a good reason to do tests on the other 100 rocks that were gifted to all those other countries.
if they all turn out to be wood then either...jon lear is right and stuff grows on the moon, or it's possible that the entire moon landing was actually faked.
if they all turn out to be wood then either...jon lear is right and stuff grows on the moon, or it's possible that the entire moon landing was actually faked.
Thanks for the post as I missed this too.
I think this could be a much bigger story than the amusing way the article was reported.
As stated above if it is petrified wood from the Moon then it is actually more valuable than just a rock. I'm speaking of scientific value rather than monetary.
If it was an intentional fake given by NASA then we have to ask why would they do that. Is it evidence of a faked landing? Was it given by the astronauts in a switch as a way to plant a clue under NASA's noses?
Were all the 100 rocks given also fakes and if so why did NASA do this and was it an insult to these countries?
And finally maybe they were given a real Lunar rock and it was switched for a fake and sold after the death. In which case is there a market for this and how much has been stolen.
If any of those points are true then it is surely more than a joke story that seems to be laughed off by the museum and the press. A behaviour that I also find rather odd
I think this could be a much bigger story than the amusing way the article was reported.
As stated above if it is petrified wood from the Moon then it is actually more valuable than just a rock. I'm speaking of scientific value rather than monetary.
If it was an intentional fake given by NASA then we have to ask why would they do that. Is it evidence of a faked landing? Was it given by the astronauts in a switch as a way to plant a clue under NASA's noses?
Were all the 100 rocks given also fakes and if so why did NASA do this and was it an insult to these countries?
And finally maybe they were given a real Lunar rock and it was switched for a fake and sold after the death. In which case is there a market for this and how much has been stolen.
If any of those points are true then it is surely more than a joke story that seems to be laughed off by the museum and the press. A behaviour that I also find rather odd
This has been discussed before.
The rock was not given to Drees by NASA or by the astronauts. It was presented to him by ambassador J. William Middendorf while the astronauts were visiting Holland. Middendorf got the rock from the State Department.
While Drees may have believed it to be a Moon rock it doesn't really make sense for it to have been. Moon rocks were never given to individuals and Drees had been out of office for 11 years at the time.
abcnews.go.com...
The rock was not given to Drees by NASA or by the astronauts. It was presented to him by ambassador J. William Middendorf while the astronauts were visiting Holland. Middendorf got the rock from the State Department.
While Drees may have believed it to be a Moon rock it doesn't really make sense for it to have been. Moon rocks were never given to individuals and Drees had been out of office for 11 years at the time.
abcnews.go.com...
reply to post by Phage
Phage you are always such a buzz-kill! LOL!
Great info, we are lucky to have you.
Phage you are always such a buzz-kill! LOL!
Great info, we are lucky to have you.
reply to post by The Teller
I am with you on this, it is nothing less than an insult if done knowingly. There would be other scenarios, but other reciprient countries must
surely be on the alert now, and what about the moonrock that was given out for analysis?
reply to post by The Teller
Stolen Moon rocks are big business, very big.
everything-everywhere.com...
Stolen Moon rocks are big business, very big.
However, many of them have been flat out stolen and sold on the black market to collectors. On a per gram basis, moon rocks might very well be one of the most valuable things on Earth. One recent case in the news (where I read about all of this) had someone trying to sell the stolen moon rock given to Malta for $5,000,000!!! In public auctions, pieces of the moon have sold for $400,000 for tiny fragments.
everything-everywhere.com...
Originally posted by Phage
Moon rocks were never given to individuals and Drees had been out of office for 11 years at the time.
abcnews.go.com...
According to your own article, moon rocks *were* given to individuals. Not only that, U.S. ambassador Middendorf was accompanying the Apollo 11 astronots on a goodwill tour:
The museum acquired the rock after the death of former Prime Minister Willem Drees in 1988. Drees received it as a private gift on Oct. 9, 1969 from then-U.S. ambassador J. William Middendorf during a visit by the three Apollo 11 astronauts, part of their "Giant Leap" goodwill tour after the first moon landing.
A jagged fist-size stone with reddish tints, it was mounted and placed above a plaque that said, "With the compliments of the Ambassador of the United States of America ... to commemorate the visit to The Netherlands of the Apollo-11 astronauts."
[edit on 2/25/2010 by GoldenFleece]
reply to post by Phage
Just picking up on that too Phage, although from a different source, see the blog from Paolo Attivissimo at this link,
blogs.discovermagazine.com...
This is what Phage is talking about re; individual ownership,
www.timesonline.co.uk...
[edit on 25-2-2010 by smurfy]
blogs.discovermagazine.com...
This is what Phage is talking about re; individual ownership,
www.timesonline.co.uk...
[edit on 25-2-2010 by smurfy]
reply to post by GoldenFleece
Yes. I said that the rock was given to Drees by Middendorf while the astronauts were visiting.
No. The article does not say Moon rocks were given to individuals, it says that this rock was given to Drees. This rock is not a Moon rock. It also says that no Moon rocks were given until the early 1970's.
We don't know if Middendorf thought it was a Moon rock or if he knew it wasn't. We don't know if he told Drees it was or if Drees just assumed it was a Moon rock. In any case, however the confusion arose, it is not a Moon rock.
[edit on 2/25/2010 by Phage]
Yes. I said that the rock was given to Drees by Middendorf while the astronauts were visiting.
No. The article does not say Moon rocks were given to individuals, it says that this rock was given to Drees. This rock is not a Moon rock. It also says that no Moon rocks were given until the early 1970's.
We don't know if Middendorf thought it was a Moon rock or if he knew it wasn't. We don't know if he told Drees it was or if Drees just assumed it was a Moon rock. In any case, however the confusion arose, it is not a Moon rock.
[edit on 2/25/2010 by Phage]
reply to post by Phage
Thanks for the info on this. I bet they wish they had sold it before this discovery though.
The funny thing is even though it is not real and probably never was real it has become a very important part of the history of the Lunar landings now. That may not be worth a lot of cash as they thought, but it has certainly become more interesting than most of the other rocks out there.
Thanks for the info on this. I bet they wish they had sold it before this discovery though.
The funny thing is even though it is not real and probably never was real it has become a very important part of the history of the Lunar landings now. That may not be worth a lot of cash as they thought, but it has certainly become more interesting than most of the other rocks out there.
reply to post by Phage
I guess we don't know a lot of things.
Including how the Apollo 11 astronots could've gone to the moon in this warped-paneled paper mache and gold duct-tape contraption with undisturbed soil under it's rocket engine:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/bc98214dc54213d7.jpg[/atsimg]
I guess we don't know a lot of things.
Including how the Apollo 11 astronots could've gone to the moon in this warped-paneled paper mache and gold duct-tape contraption with undisturbed soil under it's rocket engine:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/bc98214dc54213d7.jpg[/atsimg]
Another surgical strike styled reply from Phage.
Could it be that all those fake moon rocks were the product of someone perpetuating a fraud?
It kinda smells fishy..
Also what if those rocks were arranged to be "stolen" on purpose. This way neither the donor, neither the receiver and neither the acquirer from the black market would have been labeled as impostors. Anyone either would claim they didn't know or that the material is not in their possession anymore for it to be identified if its fake or not in case someone would have been bothered to ask them.
[edit on 25-2-2010 by spacebot]
Could it be that all those fake moon rocks were the product of someone perpetuating a fraud?
It kinda smells fishy..
Also what if those rocks were arranged to be "stolen" on purpose. This way neither the donor, neither the receiver and neither the acquirer from the black market would have been labeled as impostors. Anyone either would claim they didn't know or that the material is not in their possession anymore for it to be identified if its fake or not in case someone would have been bothered to ask them.
[edit on 25-2-2010 by spacebot]
reply to post by Phage
Then what exactly was the point of ambassador Middendorf giving a rock of petrified wood. Something about this story just isn't quite right.
[edit on 25-2-2010 by whaaa]
No. The article does not say Moon rocks were given to individuals, it says that this rock was given to Drees. This rock is not a Moon rock. It also says that Moon rocks were not given to countries, not individuals, until the early 1970's.
Then what exactly was the point of ambassador Middendorf giving a rock of petrified wood. Something about this story just isn't quite right.
[edit on 25-2-2010 by whaaa]
Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by Phage
I guess we don't know a lot of things.
Including how the Apollo 11 astronots could've gone to the moon in this warped-paneled paper mache and gold duct-tape contraption with undisturbed soil under it's rocket engine:
Just look at the micrometeorites craters on the soil.
How much disturbance do you witness there besides the hole? Its much less than the soil disturbance you would be witnessing if this had happened to Earth.
The soil is indeed disturbed but not easily detectable at least from eyes that are accustomed to Earth like anomalies. The moon soil happens that it is much thinner than what we have on Earth and it evens out pretty much like flour would even out if was poured over a horizontal surface. Also the moon dust is much more reflective that Earth's soil. From a different angle you wouldn't be able to spot scorch marks and also dust might be more resistant to heat on the moon unlike how much it is at Earth. It depends on the composition.
reply to post by GoldenFleece
I see dust blown away and discolored regolith beneath the LM. Do you expect solid rock to do something?
I guess you haven't been to the Air & Space Museum. Mostly what you see on the outside of the LM is foil for insulation.
blogs.smithsonianmag.com...
[edit on 2/25/2010 by Phage]
I see dust blown away and discolored regolith beneath the LM. Do you expect solid rock to do something?
I guess you haven't been to the Air & Space Museum. Mostly what you see on the outside of the LM is foil for insulation.
The materials that cover the module, including the aluminized film, would help to protect its inner structure from temperature extremes and micrometeoroids.
blogs.smithsonianmag.com...
[edit on 2/25/2010 by Phage]
reply to post by whaaa
Maybe the point is that any moon rock given out to countries, could not have come from Apollo 11, as per NASA statement. However extremely
valuable stolen moonrock is a fact, and bogus moonrock lies in the same territory.
reply to post by spacebot
Oh, I see -- inch-thick astronot boot prints are clearly visible, but "the soil [under the LM] is indeed disturbed but not easily detectable at least from eyes that are accustomed to Earth like anomalies."
C'mon.
Oh, I see -- inch-thick astronot boot prints are clearly visible, but "the soil [under the LM] is indeed disturbed but not easily detectable at least from eyes that are accustomed to Earth like anomalies."
C'mon.
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