Should we be so Quick in Labeling Depression as a Medical Condition!?

Thank you for your honesty and directness. I am happy to hear that you KNOW that you dont need the pills.. You cant cure a sickness of the soul with pills.

reply to post by Grossac


Uhhhh, you're welcome.....

but if you reread what I wrote I said that I will be on the medication for the rest of my life. It's just that I know it takes more than medication to help me, and so I combine it with all the other things.

The few times I've stopped taking the medicine, even with the continuation of therapy, exercise, etc. the depression comes back.

So for me the right course of action is medication in addition to lifestyle changes.

But thanks for the kind reply!

Originally posted by pharaohmoan
So yes my point? We must not and should not sweep depression under the carpet of society and continue to label it as a medical condition which can be solved with some anti-depressants!

Agree or disagree? Please explain your reasoning.

Why do people constantly pick on depressed people like they have the answers?

* Mild depression
* Clinical depression
* Chronic depression
* Severe depression
* Major Depressive Disorder

I ordered these from the lightest non-physical condition to the heaviest physical condition.

There is 'no known cause' for MDD, and being how doctors globally support such definition in the DSM, I doubt they will ever make up some cause just to make sure people stop their abuse against depressed people. To many people think it is something that is easy to solve. Those who try to say 'get over it' or 'just take a handful of happy pills' only make it worse and BECOME THE CAUSE.

I didn't go through this whole thread yet, but the problem with depression and other mental disorders is not the diagnostic criteria, but the people doing the diagnosing. In order to be diagnosed with major depressive disorder a person's symptoms must persist for at least six months according to the DSM-IVTR. When a person is unable to go about their lives as normal for half a year due to lack of any kind of motivation and a persistent malaise it is definitely a problem that needs to be fixed. Unfortunately, most people just think that severe sadness constitutes depression. In many cases they will go see their general practitioner (who is not trained in the diagnosis of mental disorders, but can still write prescriptions for them), instead of a psychiatrist or psychologist out of fear of being stigmatized by their community. The doctor will then prescribe them some form of antidepressant and send them on their way. Any psychologist will tell you that the number of reported cases of depression are much greater than the actual number of cases. I can tell you now that every disorder listed in the DSM is a medical condition, and should be treated as such. The problem is though that people are not seeking the professionals that have trained to make these diagnoses and instead go to the same person that would diagnose their cold.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

No one bothered to mention it so I'll say it again. All instances of mental illness are on the rise. All instances of chronic disease are on the rise. What has changed over the years to continue to cause this increase? Does anyone even care about that?

reply to post by StrangeBrew

 

I don't know if we have an answer to this yet. I for one would like to know.

However, it could be simple awareness.

I know I was extremely reluctant to seek help for my depression simply because of all the folks who claimed I was making it up, weak, seeking attention, etc. I'm sure I'm not the only one who felt that way.

Since society has become somewhat more accepting of mental disorders, perhaps more people are seeking help. This would cause a rise in the numbers.

Unfortunately there is an answer for this; it's just not being shared with the general public. It doesn't matter what the illness is, there is a lot of money in it whether physical or mental. There isn't a lot of dollars in good health. As remarkably easy as that is, it's that simple.

Mental disorders such as depression are real and effect a tremendous amount of people even though we can't quantified them with measuring instruments.

The brain is complex just like the immune system and other bodily systems. Deny the immune system what it needs to function optimally and the body is at risk from communicable diseases. The same goes for the brain. Neglect the fact that it requires specific care and many, MANY things can result. Social interactions, societal pressures, reasoning, even daily mundane activities can and do all become overwhelming because the mechanisms we all have to deal with them are not functioning properly.

This is the big secret and it's taking us down rung by rung. Our beloved profit engineered society does not want us to be in optimal health. It absolutely adores the fact that you feel you must consume a product (drug in this case) for the rest of your life. Consume this product forever without any recourse or root cause or potential cessation. This is society's model.

I don't want to sound like I have all the answers but I know for certain, by curing my own health problems, that nutrition is vital in physical and mental disease prevention and elimination.

Unfortunately it's something that has been discovered time and time again by those who've dedicated their lives to learning then proving that fact.

One of my favorite humanitarians of all time is Dr. Norman Walker who in 1910 established the Norwalk Laboratory of Chemistry and Scientific Research. I'd recommend reading anything written by this man (if you can get your hands on it) and learn how he cured nearly every aliment time after time using nothing but nutrition. He did so for nearly 100 years (he lived to be 118).

All his research and finding are buried and would never be shared willingly with a public when profit is to be made. There is absolutely no profit whatsoever in the practices he discovered.

Now one more time back to the food and the grocery store, I'm not exaggerating when I say 95% of foodstuff items within are counterproductive to good health. We cannot ignore this or chalk it up to circumstantial.

The Rockefeller Institute of Medical Research (who I loath) said:

- If the doctors of today do not become the nutritionists of tomorrow, then the nutritionists of today will become the doctors of tomorrow


This has been known for a long time, I just wish I had learned about it when I was being sent from doctor to doctor for test after test to find out "what was wrong with me". Not a single one of them inquired on food. How could they, they simply have no idea of it's implications.

reply to post by StrangeBrew


Great post.

I agree about nutrition. With regards to a lot of the students who are diagnosed with ADHD, simply eliminating a lot of the sugar and refined foods does amazing things.

I'm interested in the physician you referrenced. I'll definitly be on the lookout for any of his materials. Thanks for the info.

reply to post by StrangeBrew


I agree with you 100%... Good nutrition is a great way. When you think about it, with everything going on in the world today, wars, hunger and threats of war. EVERYONE should be depressed. The ones that are not are probably the ones with the mental disorders and detached from the REAL world.

reply to post by Grossac


A healthier diet has been the main source of balance with MDD, yet it doesn't cure.

I find with MDD that anything that can get 'happy thoughts' fed to the brain works. When stuck in zombie mood, I try to find a movie that I can put on that is usually action based and not about family. Avatar 3D actually made me cry a lot. Stargate episodes have usually helped. Sanctuary, BSG, Caprica, The men who stare at goats, etc etc. Music also helps. These things act better than pharma drugs.

The 'depressive' case is when it literally seem like the brain wants to shut down and just not function. There really can be no longer signs of sadness anymore. It doesn't matter what the individual wants to think about or wants to work on. The depression has gotten so bad that it has become all physical -- a debilitation.

Me, as example, I type worse and worse like dyslexia and don't even notice it until I come back later and look again. It continues to get worse.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by dzonatas]

reply to post by dzonatas


It's nice that you are aware of those signs. The times are hard and I think it's normal to get depressed. I guess that's why alot of people including me turn to drugs and alcohol so often. Escape the reality or should I say my perspective of reality. I went through a phase in the 90's that for 8 years straight I drank everyday... I went to work, got home and got drunk. On weekends I'd get drunk 2 to 3 times a day... Get drunk, pass out wake up and repeat. I've cut down alot on my drinking and can go weeks without any drugs or alcohol but the fact remains that when I start, I fall in the same trapp. After it's all said and done, It takes a few days to get back into the groove of things.

I see a science fiction theme in your choice of viewing pleasure. I'm exactly the same way.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Grossac]

reply to post by KrazyJethro


You are misinformed. Each of these disorders has a physiological element to it and that makes it a disorder. In some cases it is brain chemicals, be it their structure, timing of release or quantity.

I know a fair bit about bi-polar. Bi-polar is essentially an extremely mild form of epilepsy. There are membranes in your brain through which electrical impluses pass. An epileptic seizure is when, due to the membrane not functioning properly, a massive amount of electricity builds up and then essentially breaks through the membrane. The brain can not handle that and hence you have a seizure. Bi-polar is the same thing on a much smaller scale. The mood swings are due to the build-up and release of electricity through the brain's membranes. It is a medical condition, it is not a mental disorder. It is no different than having high cholesterol.

To the ops point, I do think these disorders are being over diagnosed and folks given too much medicine. That is a problem because it masks the fact that these are legitimate medical, not psychological problems for which there are legitimate and effective treatments.

reply to post by Grossac


Science fiction can easily be categorized as metaphysics. I say that in the same sense the brain itself can be categorized as metaphysical.

In reality, phenomena that can be proven by mathematics is physics and phenomena that can't be proven by mathematics is metaphysics.

This is due to the nature of mathematics being design, described, and organized only in a physical reality. We can obviously detect phenomena beyond the physical reality and experience it. In that sense, like memory, is metaphysical.

This isn't an attempt to digress this topic, yet something to consider with the nature of depression and a likely guess that it'll take metaphysics to really understand it.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by dzonatas]

By all the prosesses going on in the brain and facts. YES

Depression, left untreated, can lead to clinical depression. Treatment for depression doesn't necessarily need to be in tablet form. Good nutrition habits and COUNSELLING can be an effective method of treatment.

There is clinical depression in my family that has spanned 3 generations. It seems that people who are prone to depression may tend to be genetically predisposed to it in the first place.

I, myself, suffered from Acute Depression - it was brought on by a series of unfortunate life-changing events over which I had no control. The depressive state I fell into following these events was completely reactive. I was put on meds (Zoloft, then Prozac) and received counselling. It really does help to talk through your issues and I found it easy to do with a complete stranger. There was no judgement, the counsellor mainly just listened.
It helped. I discovered issues I didn't even know I had, simply by starting to talk to someone.

It's now 17 years later and I've been off meds for 15 years. Oh, I also stopped drinking the fluorinated water..........

Other family members haven't been so lucky. One suicided and the other has been in a depressive state for 30 odd years which was basically treated with only meds. No counselling was provided. This person now has clinical depression and on a bad day does not care if she lives or dies.

So yes, on the one hand, depression is a very real imbalance. On the other hand, treatment needs to be all-encompassing and not just prescribed pills to mask the imbalance.

Having said all that though, I do believe depression is being over-diagnosed, which is disappointing. There is a difference between not coping and being depressed. IMO first treatment should always include counselling which could help make the distinction between the two.

Good nutrition and counseling may work for some people, but not most. People mistake depression with feeling sad all the time. For some that may be the case, for many it is like forcing themselves to do the simplest of things, loss of interest in things they once loved to do, thoughts are cloudy, feeling blah and not functioning normally. It is different for everyone.

I have mild depression and anxiety. I was always a firm believer in medicinal herbs and vitamins yet they did nothing for me. After so many years, I finally decided I would try a prescribed medicine. Now the thing is to find the right medicine at the right dose. One made me like a zombie and all I wanted to do was sleep. One gave me a headache and made me more anxious. Finally I found one that made me feel normal. I still have good and bad days, but it DOES help and makes a difference.

Anyone who may be struggling with any form of depression should decide for themselves what works best. They should leave prescribed medicines as an option.

For some, it may just be that they are temporarily going through a tough time with issues in their lives and this will pass. Some may need to talk to a good friend or a proffesional for some insight and compassion and are then able to turn their lives around. For others, it is much deeper than that and prescribed medicine by a good doctor is what they need. Not all doctors are out for the money. Some genuinely care.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Thank you for your honesty and directness. I am happy to hear that you KNOW that you dont need the pills.. You cant cure a sickness of the soul with pills.

reply to post by Grossac

 

Uhhhh, you're welcome.....

but if you reread what I wrote I said that I will be on the medication for the rest of my life. It's just that I know it takes more than medication to help me, and so I combine it with all the other things.

The few times I've stopped taking the medicine, even with the continuation of therapy, exercise, etc. the depression comes back.

So for me the right course of action is medication in addition to lifestyle changes.

But thanks for the kind reply!

have some questions for you, Im assuming you were on pills before you tried other things. My guestion is since we know drugs are big business, and they replace certain ... continued

chemicals, that are usually produced by the body, and brought abouth by events that in live that cause said chemicals to be produced. Anyways you could just have had the same result if you tried the other methods first, all drugs are adictive on different leavels, you could just be adicted to the drug and not really need it thill your body learns to produce what you need, so you wouldent need to substitute it. Or doues it go farther then that. excuse the spelling skiped class when at school they thought it

Originally posted by Grossac
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Tell me than Mister Canadian, what test will they perform to find out what chemical imbalance there is? Forget about emotions as this world is full of nuts and I'm one of them. Suicide, I think, it crossed everyones mind. Not trying to insult anyone but I need PHYSICAL proof and not a diag from a quack pseudo doctor before he tells me i am bi polar or depressed.

Quack psedo doctor? You are kidding right? You do realize that a pshychiatrist has to complete 4 years of medical school to become a "real doctor" first and then continue on for another 5 years to become a psychiatrist.

Just incase anyone is interested in becoming a quack pseudo doctor..

www.cpa-apc.org...&xwm=true

How do you become a psychiatrist?
In Canada, psychiatrists must have a degree in medicine, a license to practise medicine in their province, and specialist certification in psychiatry by either the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada or a provincial college.

It usually takes about 12 years of post-secondary training to become a psychiatrist. Candidates must first acquire a Bachelor of Science Degree at university. To be admitted to a BSc program, the candidate must acquire specific high school science courses such as biology, chemistry, physics and some math. Consult a high school guidance counsellor to determine what courses are necessary to get into a Bachelor of Science program at your University of choice. Note that universities have different grade average cut-offs.

It is not necessary to complete the Bachelor of Science program before applying for medical school, but certain core courses must be successfully completed before taking the MCAT (medical school entrance exam). These core courses are biology, biochemistry, physics and chemistry. Some institutions require others. Before entering university, verify the requirements with the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada. Some people fill the requirements in one year; most do it in two.

Medical school takes four years. There are 17 medical schools in Canada. Psychiatry, a medical specialty like cardiology or neurology, requires further study after obtaining a medical degree. After obtaining their medical degree, a candidate must apply to the speciality of Psychiatry within the department of medicine at one of the medical schools. This phase of a psychiatrist's schooling requires five years of study.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
I've heard from a lot of people on this and simply do not buy it. Because one is generally irrational or has problems identifying underlying issues plaguing them does not mean it is a medical condition worthy of note.

I do not believe the following are diseases:

- Depression
- Belemia
- Anorexia
- ADD/ADHD
- Bipolar
- Restless Leg Syndrome

You are an intolerant person and it always saddens me when i read such misguided views by intellegent people on this website.

Mental health has a whole has so much stigma attached to it. Mainly because if you havent experienced the clinical illness then you cant fully understand. But this means there is a large sucicide rate as people feel they cannot ask for help.

The problem with the illness youve read above is that they are over diagnosed, depression and restless leg syndrome especially. However by dismissing them totally your just expresing you own ignorance. Rrestless leg syndrome in a syndrome - therefore a group of symptoms, so not actually a disease. Restless leg syndrome is common because its caused by so many different illnesses e.g. anaemia and kidney problems.

Clinical depression and bipolar disorders are serious life limiting conditions. Most educated people know these are different to the depression everyone experiences. So again my dismissing this you are just increasing the stigma suffered by those who have real troubles.

So please read up on these conditions so that you can actually comment accurately on this thread.

have some questions for you, Im assuming you were on pills before you tried other things

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


I'm always happy to answer questions about my experiences with depression. If it helps someone else, wonderful!

I actually did nothing about the depression for the first three or four years. I was a teenager, everyone (myself included) kinda considered it the typical teen angst.

When I started college, the mental turmoil continued, but then I began to experience psychosomatic complaints....feeling extremely tired, wanting to sleep and withdraw from the world, stomach ailments, etc. I went to my family doctor.

He was the first to explain the concept of depression to me. He also prescribed Paxil.

I was on paxil for about 8 months.....the reversal was amazing. He then weaned me off the paxil, informed me about the importance of nutrtion, exercise, etc.

For the next year or so things went fairly well, then the downward spiral began again. I exercised like a fiend that year, ate only fresh or fresh-frozen foods, drank nothing but bottled water, and still got depressed. Went back to the doc, was put on the paxil....again a reversal. This time it took almost a year, but eventually was weaned off it again.

Then I married while still in college. And became incredibly sick. Hospitalized four different times with severe abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, etc. They must have run a thousand tests, all inconclusive. Towards the end of this my marriage was falling apart (and really, I can understand why my ex wouldn't want to have lived with me at this point). The last time I went into the hospital i was so dehydrated my kidneys were shutting down and they had to give me potassium to help with my heart (not sure how that works). Anyway, the tests continued, still found nothing. At one point a psychiatrist came to talk to me and actually accussed me of faking it all for drugs or attention.

The next night the general surgeron did exploratory surgeon and discovered a diseased gallbladder. And apparently there was a gall stone that was cutting through the duct, or something, that was where the pain came from. Once they removed the gallbladder, all those problems went away.

Only now I had a marriage falling, a job I hated, etc. To say my depression was back full force would be a bit of an understatement.

Flash forward to now. I take the effexor and that is all. I exercise regurlarly, am careful about what I eat, meditate, and practice a lot of the techniques I learned from a wonderful psychologist. Occasionally I've tried to go off the effexor (such as when I got pregnant). Invariably, after about 6-7 months the depression comes back. I can actually feel it creeping up on me.

On a side note. One of the reasons I was so reluctant to seek help when younger was the fact that I was a Christian....and was told to just trust in the lord and everything would be okay. I tried. Didn't work.

So that's my (condensed) story, lol. Perhaps the medication has changed my brain chemistry to the point that I must stay on it. I don't know, and frankly.....its okay with me. I've been in the pit, now I'm in the light. If taking one pill for the rest of my life helps keep me out of that pit, then so be it.

Hope that helped.

reply to post by smyleegrl

Kudos to you for telling your story. It is important that folks who would benefit from medical treatment of any kind are not put off by some of the posters who slam doctors and conventional therapy. By all means, eat well and take care of yourself...but who you gonna listen to if you're ill? The person who made the study and practice of medicine their life's calling?

Or 'some guy on the net'?

reply to post by smyleegrl


Thanks for the answer, youve had an intresting life. I'f had only one experience with drugs and hospitals abouth a year ago. Had a heart attack, they said there was a good chance i was going to die and had a blocked artery, they were going to stick some sort of microscopical spring in it to expand it. I was tiered and confused when all this happened, anyways I know why I had the heart attack, and diden't take the surgery, was in the hospital for a week, they put me on blood thiners took blood every couple of hours it seemed like, and told me to take pottasium and coumodin, 'wich is rat poison a nurse there told me ' makes sense since it thins blood. And the doctor wanted to put me on antydepresents wich i declined. I'm fine now the only problems i have mentally are those, that all have wich any 27 year old would have, my lot in live I guess. The anti-depressant guess they work in a sense.