Should we be so Quick in Labeling Depression as a Medical Condition!?

Originally posted by Oldtimer2
Guess everyone is entitled to an opinion,but at least do some research,which is at best what op give his 2 cents,wonder if he has any medical training,in my years have known people who have taken their lives because of clinical depression,please think before you touch keyboard,a foot in mouth is very unattractive

"Diagnostic tests for Depression:There is no specific test to diagnose depression. Diagnosing depression includes completing a complete family, medical, and mental health history. This also includes a history of alcohol and drug use. It is very important to be as accurate as possible in describing a history of alcohol and drug use. Your health care provider will also evaluate your symptoms and order medical tests to rule-out other causes of symptoms or determine coexisting conditions. A referral is generally made to a mental health professional for further evaluation. A mental health care professional will determine the type and severity of depression you have and work with you to develop the most appropriate and effective treatment plan for you. In general, the sooner that the symptoms of depression are recognized and treated, the more effective treatment will be. "

They will just drug you.. Give you pills to increase the transmission of serotonin and noradrenaline. It's emotional modification. The same as illegal drugs. I'm not saying that the effect of being depressed is not bad, all I'm saying is there is no physical proof or tests they run. Give those drugs to any one they deem normal and it will have the same effect on them... It's just the effect of the drug.

I do not believe the following are diseases: ADD/ADHD

reply to post by KrazyJethro


I wanted to make a quick reply to this.

As a teacher, I have a LOT of students who carry this label. Some are on medication, some are not.

Most are NOT ADHD.

Instead, they simply lack discipline and maturity. Not to mention the fact that many teachers expect young children to be mini-adults, able to sit for long periods of time and pay attention. That's not how children function. No wonder they get hyper!

Television and video games has hurt our children as well, by shortening attention spans. Next time you watch a tv show, pay attention to how many times the screen changes, and you'll understand this point.

So, having said that most of my students with this diagnosis don't really have ADHD....some do.

I have one boy in particular that I am thinking about. When he doesn't have his medication, he cannot sit still. His grades plummet (his parents took him off his med for a six week trial, he went from making straight As to making all Fs). When he takes his medicine, he can concentrate, he makes good grades, and he learns. This child truly does have a medical issue.

About clinical depression.

I have been diagnosed with clinical depression now for over twenty years. Clinical depression is NOT just feeling sad. It is an overwhelming, all-encompassing lack of Hope. Trying to explain the difference in the typical sadness everyone experiences and clinical depression is like trying to explain the difference between Aerosmith and Mozart to a deaf person.

For me, medication was and is essential. If you do a little research, you will read about serotonin and dopamine, which are neuro-transmiters. Improper levels (too high or too low) can cause lots of problems, including depression. Want to know something really interesting? People with extreme stress (abuse situations, war zones, etc) actually stop or drastically reduce the amount of dopamine they produce....which can cause depression. So yeah, it can be chemical in nature.

But medication is not the ONLY treatment or, dare I say, the best treatment. For me, what helped the most was a combination of things.

1. Medication (which I will continue to take for the rest of my life)
2. Talk therapy
3. Meditation
4. Physical exercise
5. Minimum amount of sunlight per day
6. Changing my perception on life.

Individuals are different, and what worked for me may not work for others. And as a side note, I had to try four different anti-depressants before finding "the one."

Best of luck to anyone suffering from depression.....

Originally posted by Grossac
Give those drugs to any one they deem normal and it will have the same effect on them... It's just the effect of the drug.

Not true...they are not happy pills and if a non-clinically depressed individual takes SRIs...they'll feel lousy. Same as Ritalin for hyperactivity...to someone with normal brain chemistry, it's speed. For someone who needs it, it slows them down. You don't know what you are talking about, you are insulting people with mental health issues and ultimately discouraging them from seeking treatment that can allow them to live normally.

That is wrong, and you ought to know better. If not, then educate yourself before you come out here and deign to practice medicine.

I'm glad you're not calling the therapeutic shots, because clinical depression and bipolar disorder...at very least from your list...are serious illnesses. Treatment of both has changed the very nature of many people's lives, and to suggest otherwise is wrong.

Let me clarify, I do believe there are serious and detrimental mental illnesses that are debilitating. I really wasn't planning on getting into a discussion but I'll say this:

I find the vast majority of mental health designations to be ridiculous. Those that DO have the potential to be detrimental to even a remotely normal life only affect a very small percentage of people and typically are reclassifications of other illnesses or are not treated at the root (meaning they merely describe the result not the cause).

We would do much better to start over.

Yes...there is too much pathologising of complaints, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Perhaps, but to throw it all out and start over might be a faster solution.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

I'm glad you're not calling the therapeutic shots, because clinical depression and bipolar disorder...at very least from your list...are serious illnesses. Treatment of both has changed the very nature of many people's lives, and to suggest otherwise is wrong.

Let me clarify, I do believe there are serious and detrimental mental illnesses that are debilitating. I really wasn't planning on getting into a discussion but I'll say this:

I find the vast majority of mental health designations to be ridiculous. Those that DO have the potential to be detrimental to even a remotely normal life only affect a very small percentage of people and typically are reclassifications of other illnesses or are not treated at the root (meaning they merely describe the result not the cause).

We would do much better to start over.

Yes...there is too much pathologising of complaints, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Perhaps, but to throw it all out and start over might be a faster solution.

Fine...and those suffering in the meantime? Look at the suicide stats...and then try and feel good about telling people to throw away their meds.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
I wanted to make a quick reply to this.

As a teacher, I have a LOT of students who carry this label. Some are on medication, some are not.

Most are NOT ADHD.

Almost none are, at best. Additionally, those that do have a serious problem, it normally isn't a problem unless you put a round peg in a square hole (otherwise known as the normal education method).

Instead, they simply lack discipline and maturity. Not to mention the fact that many teachers expect young children to be mini-adults, able to sit for long periods of time and pay attention. That's not how children function. No wonder they get hyper!

Agreed

Television and video games has hurt our children as well, by shortening attention spans. Next time you watch a tv show, pay attention to how many times the screen changes, and you'll understand this point.

I wouldn't say they hurt children, but I will say that an over-abundance tends to produce abuse. Parents are the ultimate resource or cause of this type of situation. If one moderates the amount of tv and videos games a child will not be adversely affected and learn moderation.

I say this as a father of 4 who has been "diagnosed" with severe ADD repeatedly.

Is it easy? No, but it has it's benefits too (which is grossly ignored by those with the clipboards).

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Fine...and those suffering in the meantime? Look at the suicide stats...and then try and feel good about telling people to throw away their meds.

Starting over in those terms has nothing to do with throwing away meds, nor did I even mention medication.

That is another topic entirely.

However, I will say that "suffering" is a relative term.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

...they merely describe the result not the cause.

Why would anyone want to describe the cause? Afterall, it might require some aspect of taking responsibility for their own health.

It's like it's all up to the "gods" regarding what hand of mental health you've been dealt in live.

No one bothered to mention it so I'll say it again. All instances of mental illness are on the rise. All instances of chronic disease are on the rise. What has changed over the years to continue to cause this increase? Does anyone even care about that?

When bodies are forced to chug along on fumes who could be shocked when problems result?

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Tell me than Mister Canadian, what test will they perform to find out what chemical imbalance there is? Forget about emotions as this world is full of nuts and I'm one of them. Suicide, I think, it crossed everyones mind. Not trying to insult anyone but I need PHYSICAL proof and not a diag from a quack pseudo doctor before he tells me i am bi polar or depressed.

Originally posted by Grossac
I think that 99% of those illnesses are fake. Anything to push pills.

I've had two friends, who by chance were both diagnosed with depression of some sort at one point in their lives. I can tell you that in both cases, medication did help them to get on their feet, and eventually lead happy and productive lives, have families and be gainfully employed.

No one bothered to mention it so I'll say it again. All instances of mental illness are on the rise. All instances of chronic disease are on the rise. What has changed over the years to continue to cause this increase? Does anyone even care about that?

reply to post by StrangeBrew


I don't know if we have an answer to this yet. I for one would like to know.

However, it could be simple awareness.

I know I was extremely reluctant to seek help for my depression simply because of all the folks who claimed I was making it up, weak, seeking attention, etc. I'm sure I'm not the only one who felt that way.

Since society has become somewhat more accepting of mental disorders, perhaps more people are seeking help. This would cause a rise in the numbers.

Originally posted by Grossac
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Tell me than Mister Canadian, what test will they perform to find out what chemical imbalance there is? Forget about emotions as this world is full of nuts and I'm one of them. Suicide, I think, it crossed everyones mind. Not trying to insult anyone but I need PHYSICAL proof and not a diag from a quack pseudo doctor before he tells me i am bi polar or depressed.

I'm a little more fearful of "quack pseudo doctors" coming aboard here and telling folks that they can't trust their medical practitioners because the ubiquitous "Some Guy on the Net" said so.

A skilled doctor works with the patient and their symptoms and together they formulate a treatment plan. In the case of mental illness in particular, that plan can totally give them back their lives. In an earlier post, one member spoke of her Clinical Depression and how she gets through it. I suppose she's wrong, too, eh?

Anyone who has observed full blown depression or hypermania at work and still needs "PHYSICAL proof" before they will accept it as such is an idiot...and I will accept THAT as physical proof.

And I do believe that ought to end our particular conversation.

Originally posted by Grossac
I think that 99% of those illnesses are fake. Anything to push pills. Watch the documentary "psychiatry an industry of death" and you will get the jist of it. Every year they come up with new disorders. As it stands, probably 80% of the population has something. Not sure what % of school kids are on medication now but it's growing fast. It's an easy out. They are trying to make us into drones without desire. One guy can go to 5 different doctors and they will give 5 different diagnoses with 5 different prescription... Any disease where there is no physical proof is bull to me. At least if you break an arm the bone is cracked. Chemical imbalance? Where is the test that proves that? All heresay

This is pretty much it isn't it. Indeed people are becoming drones for the drugs companies profit machine. I don't think there is an ailment for which there isn't some kind of drug.

Tell me than Mister Canadian, what test will they perform to find out what chemical imbalance there is? Forget about emotions as this world is full of nuts and I'm one of them. Suicide, I think, it crossed everyones mind. Not trying to insult anyone but I need PHYSICAL proof and not a diag from a quack pseudo doctor before he tells me i am bi polar or depressed

reply to post by Grossac


In my battle with clinical depression, I've seen countless general practicioners, two psychiatrists, and one psychologist.

Of all those doctors, I would only say one didn't care or was incompetent. And I agree with what a lot of people have said...his solution seemed to be pushing pills.

Interestingly enough, the one who helped me the most was the psychologist, who legally cannot prescribe drugs.

It really irritates me when someone labels a psychiatrist or psychologist a "quack." Perhaps because I have an interest in this area myself, who knows. But in my opinion someone who's made it through that much schooling is far more qualified to speak about mental disorders than the average lay person.

I do understand the need for physical proof and applaud you for seeking it. And to be honest, medication makes me extremely nervous. I worked in a pharmacy for years and whenever a new drug would come out, we'd get prescriptions pouring it for it. Now here it is ten years later and a lot of those drugs have been taken off the market b/c of deadly side-effects. Personally, I won't take any medication that's not been on the market for a minimum of 15 years, but that's my personal little quirk.

I wouldn't say they hurt children, but I will say that an over-abundance tends to produce abuse. Parents are the ultimate resource or cause of this type of situation. If one moderates the amount of tv and videos games a child will not be adversely affected and learn moderation.

Very well stated. This is actually what I meant, but you explained it much better than I did.

Some television is educational, same as video games.

Everything in moderation.

reply to post by buddhasystem


I'm sure they did.. The pills will do that to anyone. That's there function, it's the cause that i'm looking for. When you have the flu, they can detect it in your blood. How do they detect depression? By talking to you. No PHYSICAL test.

Originally posted by Grossac
How do they detect depression? By talking to you. No PHYSICAL test.

Dude, if somebody tried to commit suicide by cutting themselves open, that's pretty PHYSICAL to me.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Thank you for your honesty and directness. I am happy to hear that you KNOW that you dont need the pills.. You cant cure a sickness of the soul with pills.

To some extent I agree with the OP. However I do believe Major Depressive Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, etc. are secondary to disease, drug/alcohol abuse and PTSD.

Schizophrenia, BiPolar and other chemical balances in the brain are irrefutibly and undeniably serious medical impairments. As so many other mental ailments are.

Until you've been there or know someone personally, don't be quick to judge.

With that said, I do believe some people are malingerers and fake their illnesses for either pity or to apply for social programs.

I can't leave the house without my xanax. Mostly because when my blood pressure raises it causes me to go into panic mode. I wish I could control it without medication. But I can't. Too many underlying issues with my health that keep me from functioning mentally normal.

I'm not a quack.....but I do have my issues.