Trust Your Eyes , New AE vid . N Tower

reply to post by ANOK


I did read it, and reading NIST's report of the column failing at the base causing the top to fall in first, it still disproves any "CD". Shouldnt the whole building have begun moving from the bottom up like a regular "CD"? yes a column failed at the base, which in turn caused the top penthouse section to collapse. So why doesnt the whole building begin to immediately collapse at that same moment? Why does it take for so long to collapse?

Or does the penthouse collapse point to the more obvious of structural failure of a critical column, which causes a chain reaction collapse?

But where oh where was that resounding blast of the charges going off, severing the critical column?

All of you interested in a more detailed explanation should check out Eric Hufschmids book Painful Questions an analysis of the September 11 attack. The pictures of the cut gurters are in there as well as unretouched still photos. Obviously if your watching the video and saying it has been altered you have doubts, that's what a new investigation could clear up. The video is pretty damning but the still photos as well as other evidence is even worse.

1) The fact that there was almost nothing left standiing they were crushed to dust.
2) The 30+ witnesses that were in floors 10 down to thee sub basements who heard explosions after the initial impact and had walls shooting out at them before the actual collapse. Ones above the basement heard the impact above then below a blast that knocked them off their feet.
3)The thermal imaging 5 days after that showed spots as hot as 1341 degrees as well as pictures of molten metal at these areas a week after, and this area was continuously sprayed with water the whole time. Sadly this type of pervasive heat can only be explained by thermite or other similar chemicals.
4)The siesmic data that cannot be explained by mere collapse.

And this is the mere tip of the proverbial ice Berg. Honestly I don't know how there are still skeptics everyone I know that has seen the video and stills agree that the official story is flawed and many of them are conservatives. The only person I know that is still skeptical is basing it on principal that our government would not do this, even he admits the evidence is compelling.

reply to post by ISHAMAGI

The pictures of the cut gurters are in there...

Once again, and this needs to be repeated as often as possible, the photos of the cut girders werer taken as PART OF THE CLEAN-UP!!!!

It was the dismantling of the remaining debris, as part of the removal process!!!

Unfortunately, these few photos are still being used, disingenuously, by "truth" websites, and they imply absolute LIES!

Please do more research, go deeper.....

Please, also, keep in mind the nature of Internet 'search engines'....ou must go BEYOND the first page, of an Internet search, regardless of what program you are using in your search.

(Internet search engines prioritize web pages, based on the key words you input, based on the most recent activity of "hits" on the website. ALSO< some sites can PAY to have their pages show up FIRST, SECOND, THIRD...or whichever, based on fees they are willing to pay, for the privelege).

Once again, the charlatan that is Richard Gage explains that it was "Hush-A-Bombs" that collapsed the WTC. Thanks Richie Boy! I think I will become a sustaining member now ..as long as I get a cut of the proceeds you make after you patent the Silent But Deadly Bomb .... oh, wait... Could it be? The collapses were caused by a massive fart?? Judy Woods must have some information on that.

(truthers: Google the Landmark Implosion and make sure your speakers are turned on)

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by Sean48

Originally posted by weedwhacker


Last I checked, roof is on TOP of building....collapses first.

Top down.

In a earlier post , I said I was probably a tad bit older, in need of glasses.

Vanity won't serve you WW , a check up is easy.

If you see that as a Top Down, than you can't be reasoned with.

I think you need to get to an opticians pretty smartly. The penthouse, like on the roof, falls in first; its not a matter of debate.

Pulling the rest of the building down with it?????

Apparently you and WW need to seriously get some medical attention pronto! As per WW's claim. 'The roof falls in first pulling the rest of the building down.'

Watch that video again and again and again. NOTHING is pulled down by the roof. It is bottom up. You are claiming the roof fell first so that makes it top down. Bottom up or top down, the roof falls first. The middle of the building will not fall while the top waits for a bit and the bottom certainly has nowhere to go without the top coming with it. The top always falls first because it is at the top.

Saw this thread, had to chime in.

In response to all of the "Air pressure from the falling floors made the girders eject" people.


Windows have a MUCH lower tensile and shear strength than steel girders.

The windows would have failed almost instantly, allowing the air to escape through the window holes.


BUT, just for the sake of argument... lets take a look at the force of pressure in a compression cycle (Slab falls to compress air)

Normal building air pressure is 1psi (Yes, that is gauge, not absolute (which is 14.7psi) (6,894 pascals)

Typical height of a slab is 12 feet. (144 inches)

the area of one floor of the WTC is 19,545 square feet. (2,814,545.45 square inches)

so, the typical volume is 405,294,480 cubic inches. (6,641 cubic meters)

and, if we remember our pressure equations...

Pressure = Force / Area

So....

Force = Pressure * Area

And

Area = Pressure * Force


Furthermore, the pressure of a gas is given as:

Pressure = (Amount of Gas * Ideal Gas Constant * Temperature) / Volume

The amount of the gas in the volume of one floor is:

The molar mass of air is 28.97

The density of air is 1.2 kg/m^3 (1.2kg / 1,000,000 cubic centimeters)

The mass of the air per floor is therefore: 7,969.2 kg (7,969,200 g)

So, the amount of air is: 569,228 mol

The Ideal gas constant is: 8.314472

the Temperature is: 20 C


So, the pressure acting inside the floor at rest is:

(275,084 * 8.314472 * 20) / 6,641 = 6,888.05365 pascal


OR, atmospheric pressure.


So, lets do the SAME calculation, and lets change the volume.

Let's say half the volume... or 3,320.5 cubic meters

(275,084 * 8.314472 * 20) / 3,320.5 = 13,776.1073

Ok, looks like we doubled our pressure.

yup... 1.99805544 pounds per square inch

ok, lets reduce it by half again (that's a reduction to one forth the volume, or 1,660.25 cubic meters)


(275,084 * 8.314472 * 20) / 1,660.25 = 27,552.2146 pascal

that's 3.99611088 pounds per square inch

we doubled our pressure again... by halving the volume...


we are down to 3 feet (the slab has traveled 9 feet so far)


Lets halve the volume again (1.5 feet left for all those still counting.)

that's a volume of 830.12500 cubic meters

(275 084 * 8.314472 * 20) / 830.12500 = 55,104.4292 pascals

that is 7.99222175 pounds per square inch

every time we halve the volume, we double the pressure.

So, we can see that the numbers will reach infinity before too long.

So, the pressure has to go somewhere, right?

The weakest part of any building is the windows... and the shear strength of glass is 1,493,000 Pascals

while the shear strength of steel is around 200,000,000,000 Pascals


So, once the glass gets blown out by pressure buildup, then the amount of the gas present it no longer constant, having escaped through the windows, and thus, cannot build up the pressure needed to propel the structural steel to any significant velocity.

This is why an explosive in a steel can that is sealed, will destroy the can, but an explosive in a steel can with a LID on it, merely pops the lid off.

IT is called the path of least resistance, and the windows are the path of least resistance.

This is OF COURSE assuming that the falling slab makes a perfect seal against the sides of the building, and does not allow the egress of gas (patently absurd)

This ALSO assumes that the slab is flush with the central core, and that the core is not breached (patently absurd)

This also assumes that stairwells, elevator shafts, and ventilation ducts are all airtight (patently absurd)

The pressure from the falling slabs would NEVER generate enough force to throw these beams ANY distance, because the pressure would escape from more and more windows as they fail to contain the pressure, one by one.

Therefore, the "Pressure" from falling debris CRAP, is exactly that... CRAP.


What you SHOULD see, in the event of a "Pancake slab" scenario, is the WINDOWS blowing out floor by floor, while the superstructure (Exterior coulombs) remains relatively stable for some time.

There would be no flying debris.


-Edrick

Here is vid of wtc2 collapse. I originally found this footage somewhere on the internet on 9/12/10 and saved the video because I thought it looked suspicious. It was a good thing I saved it, because the next day it was taken down off of the site I found it on. I can't remember which site it was, as it was a long time ago. But after reading the posts in here and watching the videos I wanted to share this because I think it fits in well with this thread.

Has anyone else already seen this particular piece of footage? If you watch it a couple of times it really looks like a bunch of mini explosions. What do you guys think?


** This is my first post so hopefully my video link works**

reply to post by Edrick

There would be no flying debris.

"Edrick", nicely done....but you seem to be assuming, entirely in your examination, per your post, that the "flying debris" that was ejected would only have been sent out by the compression of the air, as the global collapse progressed....

I think you made an error, in that basic assumption.

Please take time to considr the OTHER forces involved, in something as complex as the building, and its structure.....

SO MANY VARIOUS forces, a cting as the potential energy (induced by gravity, from above) acted in the ineveitable way that gravity acts....

SOMETIMES, the energy is dissipated in various vectors, not ALWAYS downward, and this depends upon tortional forces, shear forces, and the way that that the various pieces (because, recall....EVERY building is a compliation of PIECES) reacted, when subjected to the immediate and unprecented, unpredicted STRESS of the huge mass of wieght falling down, causing he cascading collapsing effect.

Please, use your great computational abilites, and re-do the calculations, factoring in all of the above.

reply to post by weedwhacker

"Edrick", nicely done....

Thank you very much.

but you seem to be assuming, entirely in your examination, per your post, that the "flying debris" that was ejected would only have been sent out by the compression of the air, as the global collapse progressed....

That was my assumption, yes.

I think you made an error, in that basic assumption.

On the contrary... I was attempting to disprove the "Pressure Wave" argument, and that was the basis of my entire argument.

However, you are somewhat correct in that my statement:

There would be no flying debris.

*IS* logically flawed, and would be more correct if phrased thusly:

There would be no flying debris *other than glass* from the pressure of the falling slabs

There... I'm now entirely satisfied.

Please, use your great computational abilites, and re-do the calculations, factoring in all of the above.

That is entirely too complicated for my tastes... some other time, perhaps... but my original intention was to silence the "Pressure" argument, and nothing more.

Beyond that, I am not willing to delve into gravitational vector mathematics, acceleration geometries, mesh vector based shear and tensile strength calculations, etc, etc, etc...

Mainly, because I do not have access to a supercomputer and Finite Element Analysis software (not to mention a TEAM of scientists and experts necessary to plug in all the variables, and a team of computer engineers required to write the model simulation engine)

I am afraid that the task that you want me to accomplish is *FAR* beyond my paygrade... (not to mention, my available resources)

However... if you would like to DONATE to the "Edrick's Shiny New Supercomputer" fund...



-Edrick

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Edrick]

reply to post by Edrick


LOL!!!!!!

I mean, and I TRULY mean this....LOL!!!!!!!

You rock, E-Man (or Woman)!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OMG....I am TOO OLD to say things like "you rock"!!!!

Sheesh....take my AARP Card...please.....



[edit on 24 February 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by Sean48

Shouldn't these pieces just fall if it was a gravity fall?

What are you seeing ?

Large volumes of compressed air can produce large force under these conditions. Imagine all of that air inside the building being compressed which then caused an outwards expulsion of materials.

Bone fragment were found on rooftops of nearby buildings. Not surprising since a lot of people were inside that building as it went down.



[edit on 24-2-2010 by john124]

reply to post by JohnnyR

Wouldn't the tower, if it collapsed because of the impact of the plane, and the resulting fire topple, because only part of the building was impacted, kind of like when you fall a tree, damage is done on one side and the mass follows the path of least resistance?

Well, the towers aren't trees, they're steel structures with specific weak points that can fail. The tower with the lower down impact zone did lean to one side slightly as it collapsed. It would be interesting to know if the impact zone were even lower, if it would have toppled sidewards. That probably would have caused even more loss of life.


[edit on 24-2-2010 by john124]

Originally posted by john124


Large volumes of compressed air can produce large force under these conditions. Imagine all of that air inside the building being compressed which then caused an outwards expulsion of materials.

Bone fragment were found on rooftops of nearby buildings. Not surprising since a lot of people were inside that building as it went down.

Gonna have to give that a thumbs down sir.

I can maybe see the windows blowing out , but to say that the steel had the same strenght as the glass windows, and blew out in unison, no

There is no reason for muti-ton pieces of steel to reach 70 mph speed,
using the OS as a premise.

reply to post by Sean48

....but to say that the steel had the same strenght as the glass windows, and blew out in unison, no ...

Please, I ask you in all earnestness....STOP! It is embarassing.

NO ONE has made the claim that the air pressure, of the collapsing progresson of the Towers, was responsible for the ejection of the debris components.

The CLAIMS made, here on ATS, of the 'poofs' jutting out, and the claims that they are evidence of "squibs" firing off....THAT is the point made, that AIR had to escape, as it was compressed by the collapsing structure above....

Th HEAVIER steel beams, or any other components of the bulidings' construction were sent outward by mere physics....

HATE to use this as an anology, but consider a house of cards....or Lincoln Logs, or any OTHER smaller analog you wish to use, and drop a weight ON TOP OF IT, and watch the results.

Those are poor analogs, because of mass, and "weight", but I hope this helps you to do the "thought experiment" so that you can understand....

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by Sean48

 

Shouldn't these pieces just fall if it was a gravity fall?

What are you seeing ?

Large volumes of compressed air can produce large force under these conditions. Imagine all of that air inside the building being compressed which then caused an outwards expulsion of materials.

Bone fragment were found on rooftops of nearby buildings. Not surprising since a lot of people were inside that building as it went down.



[edit on 24-2-2010 by john124]

I'm not embarrased WW
are you?

I was replying to this post, what are you reading , read it slowly.

no, more slowly, till you comprehend .

Originally posted by weedwhacker


Th HEAVIER steel beams, or any other components of the bulidings' construction were sent outward by mere physics....

Let me guess , you buy the Whole NIST Phenomena BS



You are getting desperate sir

Originally posted by Sean48

Originally posted by weedwhacker


Th HEAVIER steel beams, or any other components of the bulidings' construction were sent outward by mere physics....

Let me guess , you buy the Whole NIST Phenomena BS

You are getting desperate sir

He could not possibly believe the NIST theory on why the building fell. He claimed just a page back that the penthouse pulled the rest of the building down. Clearly WW has his own theory. I was hoping he would back it up but I am not holding my breath.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by K J Gunderson]

reply to post by K J Gunderson

...He claimed just a page back that the penthouse pulled the rest of the building down.

LIE!

See how you "spin"???

Lie.

Lie.

Lie.

Nice, thanks for playing.

The permananent record of posts will show how you lied.

OK, bye!!!!

Originally posted by GenRadek
So if it collapsed from the bottom up, then why does the top fall down first??

Because the inner columns inside the building failed before the penthouse actually did. Even NIST puts this failure at the BASE of the bottom.

Tell me if I'm going too fast for you, or if that's so complicated that it completely baffles you and needs to be broken down into simpler words for you.

Originally posted by ANOK
Sorry but I can't resist the temptation to point out how you, and the other OSers here DO NOT READ.

If you read bsbrays posts you'll see your question was answered and you are making bsbray repeat themselves for no other reason than you fail to gather all the pertinent information that has been handed to you before you post your irrelevant reactionary drivel.

Thanks ANOK.

I really wish Gen would read my posts instead of automatically flapping his fingers around on his keyboard every time he thinks it's his turn to respond to something.

I posted twice in a row explaining exactly what he asked me, before he even asked it.


This image alone explains what I was pointing out:




It seems like the more time goes on, "faithers" just keep back-tracking more and more against even the government's reports just to stay in as much denial as possible. They won't even listen to you when you read their own reports back to them.