To some who say they are Christian (WARNING MAY BE OFFENSIVE)

reply to post by pasttheclouds


There is a difference between judging people, and making good judgments for oneself or being able to recognize actions which are in error which is wisdom.

I have in no manner judged anyone on a personal level, nor will I. Even as much as I dislike the things Paul says, I still make sure it is known that I am not judging Paul the person, but only his writings because I am in no position to make judgments on him personally.

Jesus never judges the Pharisees, but look at what he says about them. If he had judged the Pharisees, then he would have also punished them and so on. Because that is what Judges do.

Plus, I'm not a doom and gloomer. All such people are just poor in spirit, and they are all very blessed.

Originally posted by pasttheclouds
reply to post by rileyw

 

who told you the Pharisees were off course?
there is a difference between the symbol
of paradise and symbol of kingdom.

The pharisee state was an example to explain ignorance,
not to take away from the destiny they played themselves out.

revelation is a code, it is a messag of hope,
and a message of division, its also dual.

Psalm 82 is talking about exactly this topic.

Psalm 82

1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

First and foremost - those who accept the wicked(religion is accepted) will NOT understand. By doing such, they are denied the understanding. Again, this is a point I have made over and over and over in terms of religion.

Because they have accepted, they are fatherless and poor(in spirit). And so if you notice sometimes I will defend them, and sometimes I try to show them the understanding over the acceptance. Usually which I am doing will depend on whats going around it. I'll stick up for the bible and Christians when it comes to atheists and such, but when I'm talking to Christians in a thread like this, then I lay it to them just as equally as I laid to the atheist.

Also, notice the form of judging being talked about here. It's not about judging people, but instead about making good judgments and having wisdom, which goes along with my previous post.

Symbols are worthless, this is what I call day 1 stuff because that is what the father taught me immediately and within the first day of understanding. And the understanding is in many ways based on that.

An in depth study of the bible reveals that there is a time to wield power with deadly force and there is a time to restrain ones self.
During the ancient Israelite times, God authorized this.
Once Jesus told his apostles not to fight on the night of his arrest, the time for man authorized to fight and battle was over. Was there ever a better time in history to fight than to defend the very son of God from death? No. From that moment on God would use other means to defend those serving him when and if necessary, many would die undefended.
But since God could restore their life, some would be killed individually, but the entire group would never be allowed to be killed.

Violence against our fellow man goes against what Christ taught, the problem is, man's governments have legalized killing, in something called war, justifying it. What makes me sick is when I see the clergy of Christendom blessing the soldiers, on both sides of the conflict.

The question is do you really think God supports either one of these groups?



[edit on 26-2-2010 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by badmedia


now you are playing partly the sentiment card,
god is rational in his explination of his being, emotions are THE way.

a judge does this in mind, if you would understand the one,
you would know everyhting is based on beliefs, and beliefs
do not imply actions instead of believing a belief is happening.

People who are given more have more to do.

You dont read my posts, but react on a perception,
i actually defend love and hope, but i explain the sight
we dont want to see.

THe pharisees were a symbol, but it doesn't mean their
incomplete way is not a way towards god FOR some.

And war was not only declared before jesus, to stop at him,
also afterwards, and these are jesus his words, as the words
of ALL religiousholy books.

and more important logic tells the same story.

I try to make you understand, i don't say fighting is how God is,
is say fighting is on everybodys path, in one way or another,
and for many people it means in action, and still god loves them,
and know why they do this, and allows it, actually needed it
to fullfill his glory.

I am your friend, you still dont see that.
No you dont have to see me as that,
i can stand alone.
friends talk honest, but you take me on words,
generalise away, think my message is an emotion,
think because i explain something that I actually justify it in every situation,
which i dont.
when there is a difference between way and goal,
between emotion and ratio.
BUT THERE IS NO GOAL WITHOUT THE WAY,
and that way went wrong first.


[edit on 26-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Originally posted by pasttheclouds
reply to post by rileyw

 

who told you the Pharisees were off course?
there is a difference between the symbol
of paradise and symbol of kingdom.

The pharisee state was an example to explain ignorance,
not to take away from the destiny they played themselves out.

revelation is a code, it is a messag of hope,
and a message of division, its also dual.

Mt 23:2 the 'seat of Moses' is the authority of interpreting the
law. Jesus acknowldeges that the Scribes and Pharisees
possess this authority. It is the hypocricy of the Pharisees that
Jesus warns of. There actions do not follow their teaching.

well, the one who can say not be a hypocrite
is the one who is real, god.

are you one in will and knowledge allready ? then probably you share in the
hypocrisy of the pharisees, just as everyone does before he becomes one.

the seat of moses, is not us, but the end seal of prophet,
glorification, being one with god, ONENESS in law.

god is love yes, but before he fullfills his glory,
by allowing the lies in himself, through us.



[edit on 26-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
An in depth study of the bible reveals that there is a time to wield power with deadly force and there is a time to restrain ones self.
During the ancient Israelite times, God authorized this.
Once Jesus told his apostles not to fight on the night of his arrest, the time for man authorized to fight and battle was over. Was there ever a better time in history to fight than to defend the very son of God from death? No. From that moment on God would use other means to defend those serving him when and if necessary, many would die undefended.
But since God could restore their life, some would be killed individually, but the entire group would never be allowed to be killed.

Violence against our fellow man goes against what Christ taught, the problem is, man's governments have legalized killing, in something called war, justifying it. What makes me sick is when I see the clergy of Christendom blessing the soldiers, on both sides of the conflict.

The question is do you really think God supports either one of these groups?



[edit on 26-2-2010 by Blue_Jay33]

Wars are usually fought over this or that ideology. 'If religious people
had always followed the instinct of their heart rather than the logic of their
ideology or religion we could have been spared the sight of heretics
burning at stakes, widows walking into funeral pyres, and millions of
innocent people slaughtered in wars that are waged in the name of God.'

Compassion has no ideology.
(de Mello)

What really bothers me is that this government legalized killing whether
it be war or the death penality, is done in our name. We are the state!

I don't think I would agree with you that killing in defense of one's life
or ones country is murder. And I think that is probably what the
Commandment refers to. Murder is always unjustifiable.

It is absurd to entertain the idea that God supports either side.
However the soldiers deserve blessing. It is not the military that decides
who the enemy (identified as those with opposing ideologies) is, but the
government which of course embraces the only correct ideology.


"Jesus Christ said he had never been to a footboll match. So we took
him to one, my friends and I. It was a ferocious battle between the
Protestant Punchers and the Catholic Crusaders.

The Crusaders scored first. Jesus cheered wildly and threw his hat
high up in the air. Then the Punchers scored. And Jesus cheered
wildly and threw his hat high up in the air.

This seemed to puzzle the man behind us. He tapped Jesus on the
sholder and asked, "Which side are you rooting for, my good man?"

"Me?" replied Jesus, visibly excited by the game. "Oh, I'm not
rooting for either side. I'm just enjoying the game."
The questioner turned to his neighbor and sneered, "Hmm, an atheist!"

We took him up on this after the game. Was he in the habit of never
taking sides? "I side with people rather than religions, human beings
rather than Sabbath."

he told us,
hot or cold.
not lukewarm.
god sides with everyone,
oneness forgave everyone,
before that there is no lukewarm.

[edit on 26-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds


I haven't replied because I have not much good to say to you. You are not my friend, and you don't know me at all. As far as I'm concerned, you can keep your "emotions", your "symbols" and your "beliefs" to yourself because I'm not interested in any of those things, and those thing have nothing at all to do with the way.

That you would even think you could make me or anyone else "understand" only goes to tell me that you do not understand at all. If you did "understand", then you would know that only by the father is any understanding possible. There is only 1 true teacher, 1 true master, 1 true authority and neither of us are it. The best you could ever hope to do is point someone in the direction of the father for understanding - not to yourself. Outside that, the best you could do is show me how someone is expressing that understanding.

I'm well aware of the purpose of evil, and the reason why it exists. Such is besides the point, and while people may do it while on their path, it is not and never has been "the way".

I care only about the way, the truth and any light I can find that highlights it, nothing else. That is my friend, and that is what I look towards.


[edit on 2/28/2010 by badmedia]

im sure with your own reply youll start to understand
duality and hypocrisy.


difference between taste and setting free (love)
take care.

yes, my mails are very bad, because yes,
i was learning for me, and that learning process
you share. There is a difference between
learning and the personality i actually have,
never loose the humor

take care.

[edit on 1-3-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds


Because "oneness" isn't something you do or say. It's just the reality of spirit. "Oneness" is not in any manner about being "nice" to everyone you meet. You don't go out and "make it happen". Those who go out and try to make "oneness" happen I've found generally just manipulate people.

Basically, I don't care for the blowing of smoke up my backside. Or what I call - being nice for no reason. Those who are nice for no reason are those I keep my eyes on the closest. Politicians and manipulators are nice for no reason. Most people obviously eat such up - but I won't.

Anyone who tries to tell me they are my "friend" is by default NOT my friend. If you were my friend, then there is no reason to tell me. My real friends don't come up and tell me they are my friend. If they did, I'd ask them what they wanted. And the only reason you said it was because I wasn't going along with what you said. As if such a bump can be paved over with "friendship".

I am not like most people. What you think is respect, I think is disrespect.

To love one another as yourself is not about emotion. If you love someone else as yourself, then you give them freedom. Nothing more, nothing less. Just freedom. Freedom to be themselves and so forth. To not infringe on their free will - that is love, and that is the basis of the commandments.

If you love something, then you will set it free. If it loves you, then it will come back. Love one another as yourself, and love god. The father loves people, and so they are born with free will. If they love the father, then they will seek and find him to return. Again, thus the commandments.

To kill someone is to take away their free will, to steal is to take away their free will, to enslave, to deny them of understanding, to manipulate, to control. To make them fear for the flesh in order for gain power. These things are all things which impede on the free will of others. And the excuses made to justify these things are about the only thing that I find equally as offensive as the actions themselves. Because it was done "in the name of Jesus"? Because they are a threat to your flesh? Because god is on your side? Because they are evil(if so, what are you to do what you do). Because they have a different religion than you? All excuses and none of it is "the way". It is only the way of THIS WORLD. And I could care less what the way of this world thinks.

Emotions are nothing but a reaction to things that happen. Can't go around spreading emotion to help people. The story of Jesus isn't a story about a man who walked around hugging everyone and calling them friend in order to promote "oneness". It's about spreading the understanding needed to keep the commandments. Of which includes being born of spirit.

Has nothing to do with emotion or "friendship". Simplynoone for example doesn't like me at all. Had many disagreements, arguments and debates. She even puts me on ignore. But yet, I would consider her a friend before I would you. Why? Because she doesn't lie to me about it - that is respect - that is honesty. She doesn't try to compromise for my "friendship" - that I can respect.

I consider her to be foolish on many accounts. Full of beliefs and acceptance. But a fool with a good heart(Proverbs 8:5). And a good heart leads her well in terms of what really matters - such as what she points to in this thread which is the way.

It may seem odd to you, but she is loving me as she loves herself. Because do you want people to be anything other than honest and true to you? Which is the greater disrespect - to disagree/not like someone, or to make yourself fake, hide the real you in order to agree and give the illusion of "oneness"?

Originally posted by pasttheclouds
im sure with your own reply youll start to understand
duality and hypocrisy.


difference between taste and setting free (love)
take care.

yes, my mails are very bad, because yes,
i was learning for me, and that learning process
you share. There is a difference between
learning and the personality i actually have,
never loose the humor

take care.

Now my above post seems off since you edited. But I suppose it will make sense to you since you know what the previous was.

But you only assume that I do not understand such things. Such is a large part of the insult.




[edit on 3/1/2010 by badmedia]

[Simplynoone for example doesn't like me at all. Had many disagreements, arguments and debates. She even puts me on ignore.]

We simply disagree on just about everything and you dont bend one bit and neither will I ..how can two walk together less they agree ? I say black you say white and neither the twain can meet lol ..
And I dont have you on ignore (I got curious so I unignored you lol).
I may not like you but your an interesting person .....


I havent posted in this post anymore because I cant understand a word pastthcloud says.And I disagree with almost all that he says that I do understand .(I know you mean well but Its impossible for me to comprehend your wording ) .
You and him are very similar in how you believe ....you both have over spiritualized everything that needs to be taken literally and under spiritualized everything that needs to be taken spiritually .
Neither of you have found that happy medium place in order to actually get the meanings of everything being discussed .
And both of you have a New Age/Gnostic slant with your beliefs and that really bothers me ..
But thats your opinions and your entitled to them I just dont have the energy anymore to even go there with yall anymore .....

So with that said ...good luck you two in your debate....


PS ..I will say this ..I was totally shocked (and speechless lol) to hear you agree with my post Badmedia ..I guess stranger things have happened though ..like when I have totally agreed with some of your posts before .....

[edit on 1-3-2010 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


I don't quote the Bible for a number of reasons. (1: I coulden't quote it if I wanted to. I know a few lines from Genisis, and thats it. Being raised Catholic, which I'm not now, the Catholics were not big on teaching or making referance to the Bible. That has not changed. (2: I wasen't around when the Bible was written, that I know of. Even though the Bible was written at least a century after the fact. And after that untill the advent of the printing press you had countless numbers of monks/scribes slugging away to write by hand, everything in the Bible. There is no way anyone can convince me that when seriously board doing their job, guys did not add lib from time to time.

They injected into the Bible their own views. It's human nature. To emphasize this I point to the discovery of the so called Gnostic Gospells. It was stricken from the early Catholic church because it did not conform with a male dominated establishement. Pity, think of Christianity with a human heart. Oh the potential. Islam is not the only major religion that treats women as property. Certain fundamentalist Christians do the same.
I used to think if the human race did not invent religion, we would have been spared all the pain, torture, and death that the monotheistic religions have and continue to give us.

But I know now that is a false premiss. Humans can be to clever for there own good. If not "God" we would have just come up with another excuse. Maybe skin color, eating habbits, or construction methods. We would have thought of something.

reply to post by Simplynoone


I debate ideas/opinions, not people. I don't take things personally or think of things said as being personal. That is why in 1 hand I will point out the errors of Paul, and then in the next defend him as a person. If your right, then your right.

To me it's the difference in making good judgments and judging someone. If it make it personal, then I would be judging you. But if I am only to judge what is being said as right/wrong, then I am only making judgments for myself as such. In my judgment I think your opinion is either right or wrong. In judging someone, you are judging actions and then issuing out punishment etc.

Don't get use to it. As soon as I think you are wrong, you know what to expect.

there is no oneness until you made EVERYTHING your friend.

[edit on 1-3-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by Simplynoone


you dont have to agree, ats is a place of reflection.
Peace is not found if there is no war first,
something many people try to deny.
War is best internal, inside, but it is better in words,
then in extreme deeds. Everything will come out once,
just as the bible writes, every frustration wants to be seen,
so better to fight with words then with deeds.

take care you

[edit on 1-3-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by badmedia


one more thing,

you wrote :
There is only 1 true teacher, 1 true master, 1 true authority and neither of us are it.

you are RIGHT, god is everything, so as long you avoid him working towards you as one, as everything being that teacher, you will not reach your goal, and be as jacob, fighting with god.

i maybe sound angry, but ill forgive you faster then the speed of light,
because i need to forgive you. I want to live in peace,
and give love.



[edit on 1-3-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Mark 12:31

Love your neighbor as yourself.'There is no commandment greater than these."


Heavy words from the mouth of Christ. Love your neighbor as yourself....as yourself! If we can't show the same understanding and love for our neighbor as we do OURSELF we are lost.

Originally posted by pasttheclouds
there is no oneness until you made EVERYTHING your friend.

That is not oneness. That is just a bunch of pretending you are at one with everything. If you were one with everything, then "you" do not exist in a seperate way.

Sounds like the same mistake new agers make, as they do not understand that what is flesh is flesh(physical) and what is spirit is spirit.

Oneness is just a fact of spirit and what Jesus refers to as "the vine". It's a fact/reality - not something you do. The only thing in terms of what is "done" with "oneness" is to act from the understanding itself. To act from spirit, rather than flesh - as Jesus did.