To some who say they are Christian (WARNING MAY BE OFFENSIVE)

As Jesus was going to his death he said ...Forgive them Father for they know not what they do

As Stephen was being stoned to death he said ..
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Peter says ....
1Pe 2:20 For what glory [is it], if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer [for it], ye take it patiently, this [is] acceptable with God. 1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed [himself] to him that judgeth righteously:

1Pe 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

How many of you gun toteing kill or be killed,mercy killing crowd of supposed Christians actually READ THE WORD OF GOD (ALL PARTS) are not UNDERSTANDING THESE PARTS OF SCRIPTURE ?
How can any of you after reading the scriptures actually justify KILLING ? Even in self defence ?
How can any of you justify REVENGE (life for a life evil for evil etc) after reading scripture ???
How can any of you returning evil for evil justify any of that after reading the word ?

I dont get it ..and I dont understand how some of you can believe your Holy Spirit filled if you have THIS MINDSET ?

We are to be an EXAMPLE TO OTHERS ...as Christ and his Apostles were for us ...

Am I judging > YES I AM >>.the FRUITS ...because scripture also says BY THEIR FRUITS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM >........I find some FRUITS to be totally rotten ..........

I ask you,If this battle is a spiritual battle and can only be won in spirit how can any weapon of war win the battle between good and evil (as evil is spiritual too) if you get rid of or kill all evil doers (as Bush said) wouldnt you have to kill EVERYONE THEN ? because that same EVIL in them will just roam about and SEEK ANOTHER HOST to LIVE IN ........The EVIL ITSELF CANNOT BE KILLED ....
All you did was kill the HOST of EVIL and that host was one of those people that JESUS DIED FOR and said FORGIVE THEM LORD for THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO >

What about this scripture...
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

You are fearing what man can do to you if your taking up weapons to save your life are you not ?
Why wouldnt you fear GOD MORE knowing that he WILL JUDGE YOU for taking anothers life instead of giving up yuor own life FOR HIM ???
.
Hope some of you can get over being offended and at least ponder these verses ...

I would like everyone to open the book of Daniel
Dan 8:23 ¶ And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify [himself] in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. ... See More

The verses about are talking about some things the AntiChrist will do.
Notice it says AND BY PEACE shall destroy many .
Doesnt anyone wonder what that means ?
And cant anyone see this is what is happening in our world right now .(not saying our leaders are the AntiChrist but certainly they are ALL helping him to bring about this coming world Gov who is hell bent on creating a peace on earth or a One World Unity I should say ....

How could peace destroy many ?
By WARS (a forced peace using war to bring it on )

Notice this
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

ARMS IS (Physical) WEAPONS OF WARFARE ...
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The Beast is POWERFUL WITH IS WEAPONS OF WARFARE (showing power using weapons of war)....

Why do you suppose this verse says this .
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

When who will SAY peace peace ? Who else ? The Governments of this world and the people who have believed their deceptions that we can bring peace by destroying those who dont want it .
What does the word say about these rulers of this world ?
Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, [saying],
Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
Psa 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Psa 2:5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Another thing back to weapons .
What weapons are we supposed to ARM ourselves with if we are a born again believer who is not fighting for this world but fighting spiritual battles with spiritual entities who are controlling this world ? Here is a clue ...maybe everyone should reconsider buying handguns for protection etc..
And reconsider what sort of weapons we need TO FIGHT THIS BATTLE WITH >...

You ready ? Here it is
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
] Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;...
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

If we are in a battle shouldnt we arm ourselves with the right weapons in order to actually win the battle ?If we do not go into the battle armed with the right weapons we will not be able to STAND IN THE EVIL DAY (which we are in the birth pangs of the end times).

I told you some of you may find this very offensive because it certainly is not POLITICALLY CORRECT thinking is it ?

Daniel is NOT about the antichrist,
when he talks about the prince.

the delusion promised will see false,
where it is real.

the antichrist is not coming,
he is here allready, as divided.
the sons are coming, they are the son of man,
and will be prepared as jesus was.

just as in jesus time people will not recognise,
the peace that will be shortly is to give preparation.
after it we go back to gideon,
where the fires carried by his troops,
gave delusion to the enemy,
so they fighted against their own.

you do understand the message though, one of love,
which is the preparation.





[edit on 23-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

OP I dont understand what you are saying. it's all so simple.

Look.

1. false christians are hyopcrites. expect that.

it's that simple. They don't want to listen to what God said and fight back a different way.

here's the deal.


Satan is the ruler of this world only for a short while. We will be overcome for a short period. The saints of god IF we are saints.

He said near the end men would be lovers of themselves and hateful, love would grow cold including in hypocrites.


The antichrist will be defeated but not until we are overcome for a while. All we can do is pray until God wipes evil out.

Evil is like a little nat. flying around your head. annoying as crap. and we just have to deal with it until God ends evil. And stay back and pray and speak up when we have to.


peace OP>

Well that is certainly YOUR OPINIONS
My post was mine.
I think some of you missed the point of my post though,it was more about weapons,revolutions,the bible etc.Than it was about the AntiChrist.
but thanks for your opinions ...


From my point of view on the things you brought up ....
There will be an Antichrist there are also antichrists right now,and there is an Antichrist kingdom (well ok maybe all are Antichrist kingdoms right now).

I also do not believe we shall all DIE or be overtaken by the AntiChrist
Because I believe there will be those who will be killed but then there are these folks .

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


And the scriptures in Daniel are very clearly about one particular AntiChrist who is to come .

a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

A KING will stand up
(ONE KING not many kings throughout the ages )

And his power shall be mighty
HIS power shall be mighty (its a he)not many hes but ONE HE

And through his policy
HIS policy (not THEIR POLICIES but HIS )

I could go on and post MANY scriptures showing it is A KING (HE HIS A KING is the way every verse is worded) in the latter time of their kingdom (The THEIR is Of the four KINGDOMS spoken of in the scripture before that one).............

Ten KINGS give all their power to ONE KING etc etc etc etc
How can everyone just skip over those verses to suit their own ideas ?


[edit on 23-2-2010 by Simplynoone]

Simplynoone is the one who is right in this thread.

What she is talking about is those who try to save themselves(flesh) will end up losing themselves. Because you are taking up the evil way and the path of death and destruction.

You do not fight evil by becoming evil yourself. In doing so, you only become evil yourself and in most cases the greater evil in the end. Wars and such are how evil grows and gains power.

Jesus shows the proper way in his death. He shows that it is better to die within sin/evil than it is to take up the evil and fight back in a physical manner.

The sword Jesus brings and why he says he did not come in peace is because he welds the sword of truth. That is a sword which cuts the lie like no other. He does not come in peace because he comes in truth. And so he sets brother against brother as 1 takes to the truth and 1 to the lie.

This is proven with his own actions. Because he says those things before he dies, and yet doesn't fight in the manner others treat it as. His sword is the truth, and all the lie can do is hope to cover it, manipulate it and in the process dull it. But once that sword is uncovered - watch out.

It is with these words/understanding/truth that one fights in spirit. By keeping the commandments and doing the right thing, not by becoming the evil of this world.

In fact, the above is the main source/way of deception of this world. It starts with making people think they are flesh - as atheists see themselves. Once you have the person believing they are flesh, then they will then do near anything in order to save that flesh. And so those who try to save themselves in the process lose themselves because they have sinned and taken up the evil way.

So she is 100% right on this one and it would be wise to listen up - no matter what your religion may be.



[edit on 2/24/2010 by badmedia]

C.S. Lewis, in his Screwtape Letters, talks about Satan wanting to turn folks to some political ideal when young in their Christian walks. Then, Satan seeks to make that political idea more important than their relationship with Christ. Essentially, make a cause so important in your faith walk that it eclipses your faith all together. (If you're going to look this up, he talks about it in chapters 6 and 7 primarily, as well as Screwtape Proposes a Toast).

Paul talked about this in scripture, as did Christ, too. In the "Love" chapter of 1 Corinthians, Paul asks, essentially, if I've prophesied, healed, converted, and preached God's word, but have not love, I have nothing. Christ said many will prophesy in His name and do great miracles, but in the last day, He will say, "begone from me, for I don't know you".

Talk about a shock in that last day. "But God, I condemned what you hated and called out hypocrisy as you did!" "But God, I voted Republican all my life!"

The first and greatest commandment according to Jesus was to love the Lord your God with all your heart, but just after that He called us to love our neighbor as ourselves. A political agenda, be it protecting America or condemning those who believe they're protecting America, can cloud that love. We have, after all, pride in our political opinions because we believe we're right. When someone disagrees with that, it is a slap in the face because they're attacking that pride.

I have been guilty of both. Several years ago, talking with a gentleman, I actually broke my hand hitting a hutch (instead of him) after he forcefully ended the conversation. I couldn't believe the disrespect, and was so prideful that I was convinced that if I just told him where I was coming from, he'd understand. At other times I've been no better than those who preach hate, condemning someone's actions with a heart not seeking what's best for them, but instead what's best for me and my political ideals. Heck, if you read through my 6+ years of history here on ATS you'll find those posts.

I haven't gotten it down yet, but I would suggest to everyone, ask yourself why you're cheering or saying something. When they execute a criminal, are you excited because you hope it saves others from entering such depravity, or because someone got theirs? When you tell someone to turn from their wicked ways, are you doing so to help them come to know Christ better and have a more solid relationship with God, or are you doing so because you think they're an idiot for doing what they're doing, or perhaps because your political goals can better be reached by turning them away from that?

If you have not love, you have nothing. Pursue love. It was at the heart of all Christ did, though discipline was sometimes the most loving thing for Him to do. Finally, to quote Colossians 3:17, In everything you do, in word or in deed, do it all in the name of Jesus Christ to bring glory to God the Father.

reply to post by junglejake


Don't think I exactly disagree with you. But the thing about Jesus saying he knows them not is because they will have done those things, but they have done them in sin, rather than lack of love.

Although one could say that in order to commit those sins in doing those things, they were surely not acting from love etc. But Jesus is more direct in the reason why he will say he knows them not. It's talking about like the church during the crusades, where men would go around killing other men in the name of Jesus. Thinking they had done such wonderful work in the name of Jesus, and Jesus will say - I know you not because those things are sins and they did not keep the commandments.

I think that is what you were talking about, but I think to just say "love" is a bit too general in meaning. What one persons idea of "love" is can be completely different than what another persons idea of "love" is. As the idea of love is based only on the experiences of that person and the amount/type of it they have received. Where as with Jesus and because they have sinned part, it's not so up in the air.

Also, not so sure about Paul there. I mean, if you didn't do such things out of love to start with, then you didn't really do those things at all did you?

Jesus is coming back to earth in the Book of Revelation to make war.

Theologians J. P. Moreland and Norman Geisler say that "to permit murder when one could have prevented it is morally wrong. To allow a rape when one could have hindered it is an evil. To watch an act of cruelty to children without trying to intervene is morally inexcusable. In brief, not resisting evil is an evil of omission, and an evil of omission can be just as evil as an evil of commission. Any man who refuses to protect his wife and children against a violent intruder fails them morally."

Luke 22:36 [Jesus is speaking]
"But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."






[edit on 2/24/2010 by texastig]

reply to post by texastig
reply to post by badmedia


better to say
christ instead of jesus will come back to earth,
(is jesus one or not ?)
in its impersonal side, he indeed will divide, bring war
in his personal form, in the salvation he is,
he will bring hope and the absolute love, he will win
nothing except that he wins by loosing.
Thats the elijah figure.

His impersonal side will bring division,
his personal side will bring love.

Seen as false he will help to prepare the
real, FULL christ, the son of man as the prophets together,
those will return home also,
and play out the pattern jesus also brought.

and badmedia, oneness allows war,
oneness actually needs it in the world,
but people become one by avoiding it.
But you are untilt his day fighting that truth.
You speak oneness, but condemn history,
which is part of god.
He will divide, bring war and peace.
But he is peace, not war.
that's the duality of oneness,
and the reason of our existence.

I dont want to take away from the love you have,
but love starts to understand history when it wants
to become more complete.
History had a reason, and the pain that comes also
has a reason. Yes, by your message people can avoid the worst,
but you yourself are able to understand the whole,
and i hope one day you'll be ready for it.

Survival instinct is the start of love,
and you condemn it, by survival you
realise one day that you have to save the
other, to save yourself. For that realisation
the world went wrong, so their faults are
your part. if you understand oneness.

I repeat enough,
its time anyway.
Love will come, and forgive history, forgive insanity,
and forgive the way you still have to do,
and the bad that is everyones part even still in the future,
its allready known and forgiven.
If people act. If they defend.

the prophets always bothered consciousness,
bothered the land.
(christ will bother just by his presence-impersonal side
salvation is in peace, and stopped bothering as personal side)
if you want me to talk only honey, sweet,
then what about the locusts, bitters,
2-sided sword, in this world god is dual.
In his goal he is one.

yes, also the eastern prophets bothered us,
they preach suffering as part of the way,
the books are one with them.
Oneness is something that is not seen
before it is allowed. But allowance is
something people can build.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by texastig


war has more then a literal meaning,
fighting wrong interpretations is also war,
defending persons is a double attack, it attacks the attack,
if you want to win by attack,
try a double attack,
the defense of the all, the attacks against the small self, the lie
is the double measure you can do,
it is the preparation.

yes , god brings peace and war,
but the division is only
to allow you to choose him,
and he is one.

he will allow war,
so people have to OPEN the eyes.
he will bring delusion,
so people can grow honesty,
make faults so they become in the need to forgive the others.
so they can share in the cross.






[edit on 24-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Originally posted by texastig
Jesus is coming back to earth in the Book of Revelation to make war.

Theologians J. P. Moreland and Norman Geisler say that "to permit murder when one could have prevented it is morally wrong. To allow a rape when one could have hindered it is an evil. To watch an act of cruelty to children without trying to intervene is morally inexcusable. In brief, not resisting evil is an evil of omission, and an evil of omission can be just as evil as an evil of commission. Any man who refuses to protect his wife and children against a violent intruder fails them morally."

Luke 22:36 [Jesus is speaking]
"But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

Ok so I guess Jesus and God are evil then in your opinion. Afterall, all things are possible for the father, and the father lets evil happen all the time as all things happen at the will of the father.

Therefore, God is in your opinion evil since the evil exists in the first place.

Sorry, but it's nothing more than a lame attempt at justifying your own sins.

Furthermore, it would be nice if you actually quoted verses in the correct context. In the above verse you quote, you are quoting that 1 single verse and you are using it completely out of context. That is what he said to his disciples then. And if you had read down further you would have noticed that he does NOT use those swords, and when Peter strikes someone with one, he heals that mans EAR.

Luke 22

49When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?

50And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.

51And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.

52Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?

53When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

No where does that verse suggest what you are trying to suggest it means. You treat it as if there is nothing following it regarding what Jesus does with the sword, and then apply your own meaning.

You sir are a prime example of why I would NEVER call myself a Christian and why Christianity is the Anti-Christ religion. YOU are the one being talked about in Matthew 7.

christianity is not the antichrist,
ignorance is the antichrist.

christianity is stuck not always in ignorance, but, just as yourself,
and just as i had always, and just as all the prophets had,
in not having a larger capacity, which is what brings
insanity. Doing your best if from god, whatever the lie you
are still prisoned it. Blessing and curse come forth from god.
The division of israel comes from God.

there is a difference between full capacity and ignorance.

that's why people can fight and still be from that oneness.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Originally posted by pasttheclouds
christianity is not the antichrist,
ignorance is the antichrist.

It is the anti-christ religion. It is that which is being talked about in Matthew 7. A religion that was promoted in the name of Jesus, but the current version of today was spread through fear, death, torture and so on. Ignorance paid a key role in this as the people were purposely kept ignorant for the benefit of the few "elite".

There is no reason to be an apologist for this, or to stick up for it. Just because it is true of the religion itself does not mean that anyone who is a Christian is guilty as well. Quite the opposite. Yet, it is important for people to see and understand the truth of this, in order to fix the mistakes made for the future. To fix the mistakes is to repent for sins, and if the mistakes can not be admitted to, then there is no chance of fixing them.

So I do not say it in order to condemn or persecute, but instead to help fix. You can see in understanding and the fruits of the history why the above is true. We can't change the past or that history, we can learn from it. That is how you beat ignorance.

"The meek shall inherit the Earth"...

Yeah, and then the guys with the guns will come along and stomp them into submission...




Just the way it is...

reply to post by badmedia


badmedia, the bible does not talk about only christianity in those verses,
they talk about the seven mountains, ALL religions are made dual,
(one way towards god, one way towards division)
if they make you stuck in ignorance, which is rest,
they become the seven headed monster.
Most fundamentalists are NOT in REST,
they are maybe going to slow,
which is the whore.
it is not religion that will be antichrist,
they will be in a NEGATIVE SPIRAL, YES,
but ignorance will profit from the peace the avator, elijah,
will bring, when he brings it to bring time for reflecting,
that's why not christianity, but LUKEWARM oneness-believers,
or people that follow the hype of the moment,
are closer to ignorance, when they think it means
not doing anything.

It is not the lost sheeps that are the antichrist,
it is those that can not fight for themselves.
and do not carry cause because of this.

christianity will play a big role yes,
but they are children, they want to see god,
but are not always allowed, they do wrong,
as we all did. And yes, religion will UNLEASH hell on earth,
but hell is not lived by those in ignorance.
the cross is carried in hell, ignorance lives
in heaven before it is allowed. Hope is not living in heaven, hope makes the negative of hell into the positive of heaven.

jesus sat with every person that went wrong,
even if religion will go wrong,
they will come home.

the bible speaks the secrets of live,
its followers are searchers. not a religion.

ignorance is the beast.

to explain what i say,
your message of oneness, which is the GOAL,
will be lived on earth soon,
it will make people fight for the other,
or it will make people think,
i am one, in peace, and those others that fight are wrong,
when actually they can defend instead of resting.

Kids fight, if you become a grow up,
you'll forgive the kids, and see who pretended
that he was allready an adult.

YEs, your message is the right one,
but the interpretation is not dependant
on your explination, but on the search
for justification in those that read it,
some do not search justification of all.

time is not months away anymore,
it will start sooner then most expect.


[edit on 25-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Originally posted by pasttheclouds
YEs, your message is the right one,
but the interpretation is not dependant
on your explination, but on the search
for justification in those that read it,
some do not search justification of all.

I've been over why I say those things 1000 times, and to be honest I don't even care to say it anymore as anyone who would read it has already read it around here.

There is no such thing as a "different interpretation" that is true. There are such things as different expressions, different levels, but something is either in line with the way of the father or it is not. When someone comes into this thread and speaks of war this, war that then I do not care what they think they have interpreted, they are quite simply wrong.

There is only 1 true understanding, and the person either has that understanding or they don't. If there is different interpretations, then it means that obviously someone is wrong. If they do not keep the commandments, then the truth is not in them(1 John). If they do not have the proper understanding, then they do not keep the commandments(Psalms 111). Different interpretation means different understanding.

I do not interpret the bible. I look to see how it is showing the understanding I already have. Interpreting the bible just goes to show what they accept for authority. And it's a false authority(sound familiar?), because there is only 1 true teacher, 1 true master and 1 true authority, and that is the father, not a book, not the scribes, not the pharisees, not the preachers, the pope or whatever else tries to claim such.




[edit on 2/25/2010 by badmedia]

badmedia, you are judging just as all people do,
be happy that god gave you the wisdom at a startpoint
more evolved then others. Some people do have a startpoint
that is far from what you believe, and some will do the worst things
because of that, but they are not bad.

I know its a hard truth.

yes, only one truth, but even you can not read the truth yet,
so you still live in your interpretation. (= WAY)
you do not take the time to read what i write,
because you are still defending yourself,
which is fighting, which includes judging.
Just as i dont tak ehte time yet to forgive god in his total,
soon.

throw the first stone,
the truth is, we all threw the stone.
because of this, we have to learn to lessen the throwing
of those stones, and the truth is you will judge others until
the lies die. Eye for an eye.

One example of this, you are the first to say the truth is not found based
on the bible only, but you defend against my words with the still in your interpretation commandments written in it. Yes, those commandments are the GOAL,
but we all fail, and some fail so hard they will never have
any honor in the world again, and thats why they are from god.
I told you enough salvation is in logic, but the bible is equal to that
logic, it colours logic in. So dont say again i only listen to the bible
i do not, i listen to everything, even to you.

where do you breach those commandments ?
your god is not yet one, in your goal it is,
in your view it isn't yet. What isn't one, steals from the one,
lies against the one, because all is one, murders by ignorance,
which a god that is one can NOT do, he is one and can not die.


Fighting god will give us God.
That's why Jacob fighted and became Israel.
Fighting has to be as much possible inside.
But when you do this it will explode outside,
and there people will hurt each other.
Accepting this prevents worse.



[edit on 25-2-2010 by pasttheclouds]

There will always be Pharisees among us.

As for the Antichrist, adversary of Christ, there
were many, also known as 'man of sin', anyone
who denies Jesus is Antichrist. As for the beast in Apc,
it most likely refers to the persecuting imperial power, (Rome)
as 666 is the numerical value of Hb letters of the name
Caesar Nero, the emperor, the first to put Christians to
death.


As for interpretation, the entire NT is an interpretation of
Jesus' life. It is difficult to discern which are the words of
Jesus form those of the Church, and from the theology of
the evangelists.


Revelations is a message of hope intended for a community
suffering persecutions. Its not intended to be some code
for today.

reply to post by rileyw


who told you the Pharisees were off course?
there is a difference between the symbol
of paradise and symbol of kingdom.

The pharisee state was an example to explain ignorance,
not to take away from the destiny they played themselves out.

revelation is a code, it is a messag of hope,
and a message of division, its also dual.