Eating Alices Cookie didnt take me to Wonderland. Stop telling people to avoid medication!!!

if depression is a chemical process

how do you explain that depression is to be found only in rich westerned globalised countries?

poor people anyway don't have the cash to pay for those magical "anti-whatever". (I guess that's why they don't get depressed in the first place if we follow your logic.)

dbled

[edit on 22-2-2010 by ::.mika.::]

I think alot of people in this thread, are misinformed about modern medicine.
I am a medical student so have a lot of first hand experience in the matter of how good treatment is and the "evil pharmaceutical companies".

Everyone knows drugs companies make so much money off of people, by over pricing drugs that people need to live a normal life. That doesnt mean the drugs don't work. It may be different in the USA but here in the UK, NHS drs can only precribe medication that there is clinical evidence to support that they work.

I myself do not like taking drugs, it feels unatural, especially when alot of illnesses go away on there own. However, Ive never actually had a serious problem with my health. People who have problems like already discussed "adrenal hyperplasia" would die without any medical attention but with medication can lead a normal life.

I think depression is what most people refer to when they say drugs won't help just sort your life out. But these kind of people (no fault of there own), do not really understand the situation. Everyone gets mild depression from time to time, life doesnt seem to be going their way so feel down. But like people have already said, you can get clinical chronic depression which is totally different. For no reason at all you feel like life is nothing. Its not a psychological change but a systemic bodily change. People slow down mentally and physically, there are hormone changes, neruotransmitter changes, and changes in bodily dynamics as a whole. Most patient with this kind of depression would not survive without their medication.

So by telling people to stop taking their medication, you are actually not being helpful but showing your own naivity on the subject.

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP.

I'm dealing with depression myself, and my SSRi's has made a huge change in my life.

There are meds that you need, and meds you don't - The big conspiracy lies in the ones that you don't - The "do you ever wake up feeling tired in the morning" commercials. Those are the ones that hides the symptoms instead of fixing the problem like headache, gas and such and for those there are a ton of natural remedies

Fix the problem, not the symptoms

My advice, which is certainly free and you can take it or leave it, is this.

Stay as far away from anti-depressants as possible, IF POSSIBLE!!! Educate yourself first BEFORE you take that nice little sample the doctor gives you... Type in "name of drug" and "withdrawal symptoms" and see just how many issues there are with stopping these meds on the net, or how many people are having problems with the common side effects.

I took Cymbalta for 1 year for a medical condition, IBS, not related to depression at all. And then, I've spent the past 2 years trying to get off of them. FINALLY>>> I'm 2 weeks FREE of the EVIL DRUG, CYMBALTA!!!!

YES, I realize this is only my experience, but do as I suggest and type in Cymbalta Withdrawal (or any other AD Drug's name) and see how many people are out there suffering, trying to get off these drugs.

So my suggestion is DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH, separate and apart for the PROVIDED info.

Wondering if original poster could be a Drug rep who's losing more business because word is out that these drugs are EVIL!!!!

reply to post by ::.mika.::


Where have you heard that clinical depression only exists in the western world?
Thats not true at all.

Its not as common which is true for 2 main reasons:

1) Awareness
Under diagnosis in 3rd world - not as many drs, not good resources, barely any psychologists. Means that depression is often not diagnosed, and missed as a lot of drs have to treat the more acute life threatening diseases.

Dr's in USA also over diagnose depression, and in clinical papers often do not make a distinction between acute and chronic depression, when tallying prevalence looks huge compared to other countries.


2) Stigma - Not seen as a illness, people do not ask for help.
In the western world you can go see your Dr about any biopsychosocial problem, whereas in other cultures this is not the case, you only see your dr for serious medical diseases.

The last thing people should do is take medical advice from people who wear tin foil hats. It goes without saying. The people who do get what they deserve.

I'm sure that all those people who say they don't take prescribed medications will change their minds when they get old. Guaranteed.

I have schizophrenia, and I've been battling with it for about ten years now. I just recently got back on my medication, after being off for about a month. I've been through this same argument a million times in my head, but the truth is I can't function without the medicine. Without it, I'm paranoid, delusional, and I can't think straight. It's like there's a thick blanket covering my thoughts.

It's true that the pharmaceutical business is corrupt, and not all doctors care, but the medications themselves go through rigorous scientific testing before they're put on the market (unlike a lot of the crap you see on late night infomercials). They work, and it's irresponsible and uninformed to say that they don't.

I haven't read all 4 pages, so forgive me if I'm stepping on someone's toes here.

It seems pretty ignorant to take a stance either way, to say people should just trust their doctors just because they're doctors, or people should not trust them just because of that fact.

Everyone's body is different, your body may not react to a drug that same way mine will. Your body may not need the prescription help that mine does for certain things, my body may not need as much as you, etc.

To just put a blanket statement either way is just silly.

To drust a doctor just because he's a doctor is silly. True anti-depressants didn't come about until about 1960. Did you know before that, they would often prescribe amphetamines as an anti-depressant? I sure hope if my doctor ever prescribes me anything like that, that I am able to do some research and find out beforehand so I can not take it. Such a horrible drug, but it was an anti-depressant not all that long ago.

On the other hand, I have gone to the doctor for earaches and been prescribed antibiotics that clear it up within a couple of days.

I guess in summary, don't 100% trust anybody that is either prescribing you drugs or telling you not to take them. Do your own research and make up your mind on your own. Talk to your doctor about your concerns, see what he/she says about them, they may very well have literature.

Don't listen to any yahoo telling you that you should listen to a doctor just because he's a doctor and don't listen to any yahoos telling you the opposite. It's your body, treat it how you feel you need to.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
Ahem, have you ever known a person with a serious mental condition? A schizophrenic per chance? One who hears voices telling them to mutilate themselves or that everyone is out to get them?

I have known a few in my lifetime and all of them tried being off their medications at one time or another, with disastrous results. Some of them died.

I love these people dearly, but will have nothing to do with them when they don't take their meds.

Actually I had a very dear friend who was diagnosed as bipolar. She tried to kill herself several times before she finally succeeded. After her funeral, her shrink, who was kind enough to comfort her family, gave them the startling information that schizophrenia is 97% fatal. Frankly I'd ask for a second opinion. I honestly think she would be alive today and fine if she hadn't been on all those medications, uppers and downers. She was only upset about a little mistake about being pushed into signing up for a beauty class that she didn't want and couldn't afford and was too upset to tell her father. She wasn't crazy. She was only upset, but it was only after the drugs, and electric shocks, which she had awake because she was allergic to some medication, that she became a blithering idiot. She had been a brilliant student, was second pick for class valedictorian in high school. She wasn't the slightest bit crazy, but her parents trusted the doctors. And the doctors trusted their training. And quite frankly that idea that everyone is out to get you is not so far off base anymore. Look around.
The medical profession, minus the doctors who blindly trust their training, is corrupt to the point of being... ,no criminal is too mild, these are crimes against humanity. Back in 1918 that bug-a-boo scary swine flu pandemic that killed millions was the result of innoculations against diphtheria, typhoid, etc.


www.whale.to...

I heard that seven men dropped dead in a doctor’s office after being vaccinated. This was in an army camp, so I wrote to the Government for verification. They sent me the report of U.S. Secretary of War, Henry L. Stimson. The report not only verified the report of the seven who dropped dead from the vaccines, but it stated that there had been 63 deaths and 28,585 cases of hepatitis as a direct result of the yellow fever vaccine during only 6 months of the war. That was only one of the 14 to 25 shots given the soldiers. We can imagine the damage that all these shots did to the men. (See the chapter on What Vaccinations Did to Our Soldiers.)

The first World War was of a short duration, so the vaccine makers were unable to use up all their vaccines. As they were (and still are) in business for profit, they decided to sell it to the rest of the population. So they drummed up the largest vaccination campaign in U.S. history. There were no epidemics to justify it so they used other tricks. Their propaganda claimed the soldiers were coming home from foreign countries with all kinds of diseases and that everyone must have all the shots on the market.

The people believed them because, first of all, they wanted to believe their doctors, and second, the returning soldiers certainly had been sick. They didn’t know it was from doctor-made vaccine diseases, as the army doctors don’t tell them things like that. Many of the returned soldiers were disabled for life by these drug-induced diseases. Many were insane from postvaccinal encephalitis, but the doctors called it shell shock, even though many had never left American soil.

The conglomerate disease brought on by the many poison vaccines baffled the doctors, as they never had a vaccination spree before which used so many different vaccines. The new disease they had created had symptoms of all the diseases they had injected into the man. There was the high fever, extreme weakness, abdominal rash and intestinal disturbance characteristic of typhoid. The diphtheria vaccine caused lung congestion, chills and fever, swollen, sore throat clogged with the false membrane, and the choking suffocation because of difficulty in breathing followed by gasping and death, after which the body turned black from stagnant blood that had been deprived of oxygen in the suffocation stages. In early days they called it Black Death. The other vaccines cause their own reactions — paralysis, brain damage, lockjaw, etc.

When doctors had tried to suppress the symptoms of the typhoid with a stronger vaccine, it caused a worse form of typhoid which they named paratyphoid. But when they concocted a stronger and more dangerous vaccine to suppress that one, they created an even worse disease which they didn’t have a name for. What should they call it? They didn’t want to tell the people what it really was — their own Frankenstein monster which they had created with their vaccines and suppressive medicines. They wanted to direct the blame away from themselves, so they called it Spanish Influenza. It was certainly not of Spanish origin, and the Spanish people resented the implication that the world-wide scourge of that day should be blamed on them. But the name stuck and American medical doctors and vaccine makers were not suspected of the crime of this widespread devastation — the 1918 Flu Epidemic. It is only in recent years that researchers have been digging up the facts and laying the blame where it belongs.

This is all from whale.to The article was written in the 70's in response to the swine flu scare at that time. The book was banned by the post office because it went "against accepted medical practice" I tried to update Wikipedia, but they censored it and claim that Whale.to is a banned source.
Americans are too complacent. They need to research EVERYTHING. There is too much harmful stuff out there, and our society's protections against fraud aren't working. You need to get your eyes wide open.
But I'm not saying the doctors are bad people. They are good, sincere, dedicated people, but they have been brainwashed to walk in step with for-profit Big Med and anyone who doesn't is blacklisted or run out of business or killed, example the many microbiologists who died last year
You need to wake up and do your own research.Some medications might be helpful but it's better to research and know, then to be sorry later, like we were.
Whatever you do, don't take any swineflu vaccine.

Did you know that there are studies that show that fluoride in the water causes a 20% drop in IQ? These people lied to us about the fluoride too. Fluoride poisoning is affecting so many people, but the doctors are not diagnosing it as such: it is a thyroid problem probably genetic. Meantime aluminum manufacturers don't have to use expensive procedures to decontaminate their waste, from lead, radioactive polonium etc and fluoride but can charge our municipalities a fortune to dump it in our water.

The more you research the worse it gets.Go ahead, trust the professionals, they know everything.


[edit on 22-2-2010 by m khan]

reply to post by 1curious1


Im sorry the hear the problem youve had with your medication for IBS.

The drugs your talking about is actually an SSRI which ia drug taken for depression usually.

There is evidence that low doses of these are useful for IBS, however not large doses that are used in major depression. A problem with these drugs like you have described is withdrawl, however you do not normally give a high enough dose in IBS for withdrawl to be a problem. So i think your problem lies with a # dr. Not a # drug. Your dr should of really tried many other lifestyle factors and other more simple drugs which are recommended.

So please do not sayto people "do not take these drugs" because they are so useful in other ways. And can be in low doses for IBS patients.

reply to post by broli



And the auto/oil industries are also really corrupt. That is why I do all my transportation by walking or cycling. You heard that right. There is a perfectly natural way to get your body from point A to point B without polluting the environment or harmful chemicals. Plus it is good for your health. The oil industry is in it for the money, not your transportation speed or your convenience.

...ends sarcasm...

-rrr

[edit on 22-2-2010 by rickyrrr]

hey i agree, personally i havn't seen any comments of people telling others not to take thier meds, but if the person NEEDS them to be socially sane, then yea take them.

Cause some cases they stop then become extremly paranoid, and think everything is a conpiracy, which isn't healthy thinking for ATS members, we need to be on our top game (so to speak) and letting your mental issues get the best of you isnt a good thing at all

or if that didnt help..take your meds because the goverment doesnt want you to be on top of your game, yea maybe that helped?

Clear mind, no emotional distractions or mental distractions

but some meds are just to counter-act the side effects of other meds, while the rest of those meds save peopels lives

There are many medicines that do help people deal with problems and diseases in this world.

That doesn't change the fact that there is alarming number of people being over precribed and under diagnosed.

We as Americans lead lives that are very out of balance and many times our ailments are results of these things.

We also readily ignore our spiritual selves

With depression and other mental issues you have to always remember that these medications do not make you better or cure you ...but they do allow you in some cases to ease the symptoms

Personally I have never wanted to only ease a symptom, I want to get down to the root problem and fix it. It may not be quick but I hate being held hostage by my own body. Not only do I not want the symptom, I don't want the issue that created it either. I don't want to feel like a fractured individual, I want alignment within my being....Not everyone wants the same thing and many are happy with just not having a symptom even though they have never dealt with the root cause. Thats a personal descision and one that another person should never try and make for you. All you can do is exhaust all alternatives in search of answers and then try and make one based on what you've learned. Dont just accept things at face value.

reply to post by LurkerMan


I agree with your suggestion for the increased use of cannabis in medicine!
Cannabis does have so many great properties but the problem is in the smokable form it is only a short term high, but a long term depressant. And for all the great qualities it has, it has so many negative ones. Such as the increased risk of testicular cancer...

Hopefully cannabis extracts will soon be realeased so that the benefits can be felt by all.

Finally, someone with a bit of sense. Yet there are people on here still saying that this is wrong, and to listen to their untrained, generalised opinion over that of a fully educated professional doctor. Sometimes it really blows my mind to see how many "professionals who have studied this for year" are on this site telling people that their schizophrenia or depression can be cured by some whacky self help meditating and that the medication the doctor gave them was simply a placebo.

What utter, irresponisble nonsense

why anyone here who is not a doctor can even have the audacity to tell someone suffering any mental illness to NOT take the medication subscribed by a doctor is totally behond me.

and i hope that anyone on here who reads this post realises that they should never listen to anyone on here about stopping medication.

infact, i would go to say that this is so dangerous that ATS might want to stop people being able to tell people such things, as this serioulsy could have some dire consequences

well done o.p for bringing this to the attention of everyone

reply to post by spuddyboy


I am a medical transcriptionist for a living, and you would be surprised at how many of those "educated" doctors can't even form a proper sentence.

Telling everyone to just blindly trust their doctor is just as bad as telling people not to. Just so you know, doctors are human and therefore are prone to making mistakes.

I thought everyone had heard this all their life, but it seems to need repeating. Don't assume anything. Get educated and then make an informed decision. Basing decisions on assumption is not the best way to do things. Just because your doctor is educated, does not mean he cannot make mistakes - don't assume that is the case!

Trust me man, you're daily drug dealers look out for you more than a pharmaceutical company or a doctor does these days.
The key to this argument is simple, do the research.
I for one know there is as mentioned before, heavy heavy corruption in the prescription industry.Personally, I am one of those people who tell people to stay away from such things as ssri's as I have seen people become dependent upon these drugs to live.
As for me, I had my share of prescriptions as I was diagnosed with "ADD" and was prescribed ritalin, I took it for 3 or 4 years, that was about when my mom was sick of me walking around like a homework murdering zombie who wouldnt eat anything.I was taken off the drugs went to high school and found new drugs.
And now when im feeling low, I just smoke a nice fatty.

reply to post by Pimpish


ok, im wrong then? so rather than listen to my family doctor who i have been going to since i was born, i should come on a conspiracy website and listen to some moron huddled up in his room wearing a tinfoil hat and ranting about reptilian shapeshifting baby eaters who secretly control the government and media?

look, of course i know you should get a second opinion from another doctor, but listening to medical information over the internet from people you do not know is completly wrong and very irresponsible.

you clearly must see where i am coming from?