for those who want a moneyless society

Originally posted by Pitons
reply to post by JPhish

 

To eliminate greediness is not enough. Laziness would be next thing.

If there was enough for everyone - not just a big slice of the pie, but huge numbers of pies to choose from, greed would be meaningless. If robots did all the necessary work no one wanted to do, laziness would become meaningless.

And we would all do that which gives us the most bliss (within the three Laws...)

It's easy. Work for housing instead of money. I proposed an idea like this on ATS before and no one liked it but me.

Originally posted by Tormentations
It's easy. Work for housing instead of money. I proposed an idea like this on ATS before and no one liked it but me.

If we had access to the energy all around us (the methods of extraction having been suppressed as it would mean the end of control over others), with robots to do the work no one wants to do, no one would have to work. They could do any work they WANTED to do, however...

So, yeah. I can see why this idea was not picked up. If we are working for housing...what do we use to get food with?

reply to post by Amaterasu


I meant to say and food to work for with it.

It be a good moneyless society.

I can't believe some of you are actually pro-cashless society.
Wow.

All i know is that alot of freedom will be lost the day that the 'ol frogskins are illegal. I shudder to imagine the world my children will be living in.

reply to post by Romans 10:9


Freedom is not secure with money, as money can always be controlled even if backed by gold. Having money backed with gold places more power in peoples hands however, does not address the degree of corruption money breeds or the power it wields over others. When a person or group of people can horde money at the expense of others it is not Freedom for those others.

A cashless system that is balanced is the only method of moving forward.

reply to post by Amaterasu


Amaterasu, I have read your book. I believe your book is an excellent path forward off of a cash system toward automation and toward a resource based economy. One thing comes to mind though is that most people are repulsed at the idea of having no money. I do not desire to change their own belief until such a time that their maintained belief fails to produce. Hence, when money is shown to collapse or become worthless would your system be able to be implemented? Or would it require elements of the existing system to function.

I dream of an economic system that can be used anywhere in the world independently, and without existing resources. A system that can be implemented overnight. Where the power of the system is held only in the mind of a free person, and economic security is never prevented simple because a ruling elite wants to control it's production lines, or flow of resources.

Originally posted by Romans 10:9
I can't believe some of you are actually pro-cashless society.
Wow.

All i know is that alot of freedom will be lost the day that the 'ol frogskins are illegal. I shudder to imagine the world my children will be living in.

I don't think you fully understand what it would mean, freedomwise, for all of us if we could access and use, anywhere a negentropic source of energy. It would free us all to do as we like (within the three Laws) - when combined with robotics (something that is just now, for the first time in history, an option).

Please read my book, linked in my sig and offered freely. You may understand then what the "Dark" Energy of the Universe really means to us.

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Amaterasu, I have read your book. I believe your book is an excellent path forward off of a cash system toward automation and toward a resource based economy. One thing comes to mind though is that most people are repulsed at the idea of having no money. I do not desire to change their own belief until such a time that their maintained belief fails to produce. Hence, when money is shown to collapse or become worthless would your system be able to be implemented? Or would it require elements of the existing system to function.

I dream of an economic system that can be used anywhere in the world independently, and without existing resources. A system that can be implemented overnight. Where the power of the system is held only in the mind of a free person, and economic security is never prevented simple because a ruling elite wants to control it's production lines, or flow of resources.

I can understand that there may be fear... "What do I do if I need something?" But the internet is in place and will grow around the world. Through it, we will be able to place orders for what we need and they will be delivered by robots...

What you further describe is what I offer. ("Overnight" being somewhat relative...but it still would take hold rapidly once the awareness of the goals and benefits hits the tipping point.)

Free energy and self-replicating robots would help. Oh wait, humans are the self-replicating robots... I do believe free energy is possible, or at least abundant, non-oil based energy.

Money is not actually that bad. The only problem is when control of the money supply is privatized, like Federal Reserve Inc. At this point, the people no longer control the value of their money or their posessions, belongings, homes, etc.

The only way to live in a cashless society is to eliminate greed. The only way to eliminate greed is to rewrite the script. Free love!

reply to post by Amaterasu


I guess what I meant to say is I agree with your idea. What I am aiming for and wanting to do is put many ideas similar to your own into an actual working model, that does not take massive amounts of money in our current system to do. What I am thinking of is connecting with like minded individuals such as yourself and presenting a path forward, real momentum behind the idea...not just some concept that is based on the ability to produce a product to revolutionize the economy. What I want to do is work with others on more than a concept or plan...but an actual blueprint for a totally free monetary structure from the ground up.

A balanced system needs to be dreamed of. But what does it look like...how does it function? What are the ramifications of it? How can people easily relate to it? How long will people that desire control over money realize the system works to their benefit as well as others benefit?

My ideas are similar to your own, except in that they overlap a economic system that is fully functional with or without resources. Additionally, the economic system would pave the way to joint projects such as free energy distribution and would fold nicely into your model over time. My economic system could be used by a group of people stuck on an island somewhere, as well as for local communities and can be applied to entire nations. Once implemented would link the methods of our current economic system, with the reward for not being lazy, and pave the way to a system of resource based management.

a cashless society what a perfect idea,no place for corruption depending on who programs it and has control of it . banks can`t be trusted as their greed knows no bounds.as in this time of recession they are REAPING -OR IS IT RAPING IN RECORD PROFITS at our expense.governments can`t be trusted at all either as they spend money that they don`t have like it was water in a never ending supply- their idea of the monetary system is spend their way out of everything with no cash [CREDIT IS THEIR ANSWER] this thing they call credit is debt ASSUMED TO BE REPAID BY EVERYONE, EXCEPT THEMSELVES.IN THE PEOPLES NAME as this is their idea of representing the people aka the SLAVES TO THE MONETARY SYSTEM.it seems that we have lost control of all of them -madmen in power is the ultimate case of insanity . so who is really running this insane asylum ,must be the inmates as the people have no say any longer .the silent majority.so why is it that all of the countries business is done behind closed doors -WHAT ARE THEY HIDING.

neither of the above can be trusted as they both wash each others backs .example the bank told the worlds governments that they have done all that they can do by keeping the interest rate low -what a lie as the day that they announced that we were in a recession they RAISED THE CREDIT CARD INTEREST RATE BY 5% TO 6% MORE on those who were paying the higher interest rates ,this they did in the morning -in the afternoon we all heard the bad news RECESSION.
our greatest enemy is within our banking system it is the demon called COMPOUNDING INTEREST as it compounds the ability to pay back -ask our governments ,WHY THEY CAN ONLY AFFORD TO PAY OFF THE INTEREST ON OUR NATIONAL DEBT AND NOTHING OFF OF THE PRINCIPAL. you have just got to love these 2 groups -love them to death as hanging is to good for them ,why dirty a good rope._javascript:icon('')
DEBIT CARDS should word fine except that they can not protect it from the criminal element yet. get rid of cash and you get rid of cash back . this ends a part of the criminal elements ability to abuse us all .no longer can money be taken at the till .outcome no robberies and no muggings ,guess the boys in blue will have more time in the donut shops
with a cashless society the benefits would be tremendous ,everyone gets health care at all levels no cutting back on services or anything,everything that we want or need would be ours all on the card -on 1 condition we all work for credits which don`t need to be backed no work no credits no nothing .only business can use it to buy or sell ,people receive credits in the place of cash same value but on the card not cash.people spend it as a debit .no more garage sales no more greed everything has to be made to be recycled no more waste ,clean up the environment . with this type of system there is no cost if your out of work you work no more welfare no more unemployment no more stupidity if your out of work the environmentally cleanup is where you go or other such things your credit still gets paid weekly ,all make the same # of credits as this would get rid of the class system that we have in place world wide ,and yes it does exist in every nation.even the heads of companies and state all get the same no more us and them who are below us system that we all have now .
we have so much potential as a species to make it better and right for all and yet a few still want to play god with us all as their faithful followers-blind and oblivious to all but their lies and deceptions .
the song says -if god was here he`d tell us all that man is some kink of sinner -yea all of us even our priests .
as we are still living in the dark ages-the past - and we don`t want a changed world for the better as we don`t know of a better way , and the light of the future is scary to all as we fear that which is unknown to us all .
have any of you really been watching what is going on -we are being setup for WORLD WAR 3 as we speak or read this -who will survive it ,not us the HUMAN RACE .......we are doomed if we do !
are you cool with this:_javascript:icon('')
i guess that the few who call themselves the power don`t want to relinquish the reins of power that they control or so they say ,they would rather destroy it all rather than conform to a brave new world -AQUARIUS
OR A PERFECT WORLD .

reply to post by Unity_99


Initially I was thinking that the big plague that destroys socialist countries would eventually destroy a cashless society. But then I started to think that the opposite would happen.

What kills a socialist welfare state? Laziness.

I was thinking that in a cashless utopic society that people wouldn't have to work for the things they got. Well, that's wrong. In fact, MORE people would have to work for what they want. If you want to eat you have to create something that someone else wants. Good ole barter and trade. Or you put in your time helping that person create their goods. Get paid in food, supplies, etc.

It's a tough one because it always come back down to one thing. Greed.

The gold vendors (original bankers) created a system that benefitted them greatly. They used it to control people, countries and now the world. They have been crushed a couple times in history but they always push their way back into society with the next big scam like compound interest, etc.

I guess that was the long winded way of saying that yes, a cashless society would be very welcome. As long as we can keep those that consider themselves the 'elite' class away from establishing another system of control.

...the Earth has more than enough for all of us, several times over.


[edit on 2/19/2010 by Amaterasu]

But there can never be enough to satisfy greed.

-----------

nice thread.. thanks for posting it

reply to post by ExPostFacto


I see... I am working on an article that suggests and clarifies things relative to the Abundance Paradigm.

The one of the hardest things to overcome is (as you indicated) the fear that things won't flow.

I will be posting the article (sort of a thesis, actually) when it is fully written (maybe by the end of the weekend...).

I would be more than happy to join forces. [smile]

The hardest thing, however, is getting media on our side to spread the ideas, concepts and direction we should take. Once it gets to the tipping point, it will take off. Otherwise, all efforts will fall into obscurity.

Originally posted by seataka

...the Earth has more than enough for all of us, several times over.


[edit on 2/19/2010 by Amaterasu]

But there can never be enough to satisfy greed.

-----------

nice thread.. thanks for posting it

Pretty much the point of my post. It would work if it was done without the greed that seems to come naturally to many.

reply to post by picrat


I agree with the everything you mentioned. The only thing I would like to add is that currently our monetary system rewards those that produce even at the expense of ruining our environment, and destroying the quality and balance of life. I would like to see a system that rewards real contributions made to society. When I say real contributions I mean when the company provides real quality products that are designed to last near indefinitely or are renewable if meant to be disposed of. A company that automates it's production to decrease the cost of the product, and provide more time off for people to pursue personal life. A company that encourages innovation on every level. These companies should be rewarded and held in the highest regard by society. A government that supports less regulations so long as product prices are dropped to benefit society. A government that works cooperatively with citizens and companies to provide the foundation for living a successful, abundant, and care free world. A people that are proud of their achievements and freely share information to help others.

For all those that choose to want control, power, and money as the driving force behind innovation; their world is crumbling now. I'm ready for the next phase...how many others?

reply to post by Amaterasu


Yes...I have some ideas to get the message out there. My little portion of my idea concern's overlapping ideas between the current system and a new one; which would be best implemented during a time of collapse if popular opinion didn't dictate a switch sooner.

this is fantastic , thanks everyone for contributing.
To all those who think things would be worse without a monetary system, I must disagree.

Money may have initially and in some current circumstances be the driving force of progress, but in todays age you will find that money is exactly whats preventing human progress.

I hate to think of all the cures and emerging technologies which has been shelved due to the fact that they would reduce the amount of earnings that one particular corporation would make , if that technology was ever released

This limited greed at the expense of progress model will only hurt us as a race long term.





[edit on 19-2-2010 by mouldy crumpet]

Originally posted by seataka

...the Earth has more than enough for all of us, several times over.


[edit on 2/19/2010 by Amaterasu]

But there can never be enough to satisfy greed.

-----------

nice thread.. thanks for posting it

Can you describe how greed would function where everyone can have what they want when (or virtually so) they want it?

For that is what would happen if we shifted to "Dark" Energy... In fact, when there is abundance for all, greed has no meaning.