Ufology and Hoaxes

For people new to the world of UFOs, it's a place full of incredible events spoilt by skeptics and debunkers. For people who've been around the subject a bit longer, it's a place of incredible events spoilt by hoaxers, debunkers and plain old liars. The great researchers describe it as the 'rabbit hole,' 'the sandpit' and a place to drive you crazy. In the middle of all this UFOs are witnessed regularly...regardless of believers or skeptics interpretations of them.

In this thread, I'd like to focus attention on the hoaxes and fiction of Ufology. Shaggy dog tales, rumours and classic fiction. They've been around long before the 1940s surge in interest and have continued to this day. Many of them actually foreshadow UFO incidents that were yet to occur. They make interesting reading and raise serious questions.

Greys have been described accurately by H.G Wells in 1893. Cattle mutilations made the press way back in 1897. As Skyfloating's cool Flying Saucer thread has illustrated...even flying saucers were conceived before they became part of popular culture. What we describe as cigar-shaped UFOs were once known as other-wordly airshipsand hit the late 19th century and early 20th Century Press.

People lie for a number of reasons...attention, notoriety, mental illness and sometimes good old fashioned mischief. Some incidents are just for the sheer amusing hell of it. The subject is also infested by people with agendas more elaborate than this. Cover-ups and disinformation are not always a paranoid fantasy. They happen. A lot of time and effort has been applied to ensure that every supposed fact is counter balanced with a lie, if, but and maybe.

Anyone that researches or shows an interest in Ufology for a length of time feels like they're chasing their own tail. Round and round in circles. In interviews, the likes of George Knapp, Don Ecker, Frank Warren, Bruce Maccabee, Hynek, Vallee and many more attest to quitting out of frustration. There's something big and mysterious happening and the answers are always a fingertip away. For this reason they always come back. It's like looking into the abyss when the abyss looks back...

Anyway, enough of all that...let's go back in time...

On April 23, 1897, a Kansas newspaper, the Yates Center Farmer's Advocate, reported an incredible story. On the evening of April 19, local rancher Alexander Hamilton, his son, and a hired man saw a giant cigar-shaped UFO hovering above a corral near the house. Hamilton claimed that in a carriage underneath the structure were "six of the strangest beings I ever saw." Just then, the three men heard a calf bawling and found it trapped in the fence, a rope around its neck extending upward. "We tried to get it off but could not," Hamilton said, "so we cut the wire loose to see the ship, heifer and all, rise slowly, disappearing in the northwest."

The 1897 Cow Abduction Hoax

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/97b07a68f13b.jpg[/atsimg]

The claimant in this case was supported by local respectable citizens. Their support alleviated doubts people might have. What came out much, much later was that both he and the 'respectable citizens' were members of a 'Liars Club.' The name of the game was to see who could tell the biggest lie. For decades, this account was taken seriously. There are still liars clubs today.

What makes this original hoax account all the more interesting is the addition of cattle mutilation...

The next day, Hamilton went looking for the animal. He learned that a neighbor had found the butchered remains in his pasture. The neighbor, according to Hamilton, "was greatly mystified in not being able to find any tracks in the soft ground."

In one elaborate practical joke we see at least two common features of modern Ufology...cigar-shaped craft and animal mutilations. I mentioned fiction too. Not fiction as in BS, but genuine fiction. It's a genuine point of debate as to where and when Greys became part of the fabric of UFO mythology. Abduction accounts are rife with them. Roughly, they represent 50% of alien descriptions in the Western world. The figure isn't consistent in every country, but these guys represent a significant portion of reports.

The first descriptions of our small, large-eyed friends appeared in the late 19th Century in an article by H.G Wells...'The Million Year Man.' He described our future selves with large bald heads and small bodies. In another outing, "The First Men in the Moon" he described the Moon critters as "gray skin, big heads, large black eyes and wasp stings." Greys Wiki

There's a theme here. Modern ideas of UFOs and their occupants have a provenance in fiction and imagination from long before they became 20th Century icons.

Back in '84...as in '1884,' a bunch of cowboys made the local newspaper when they saw a spaceship crash...

On June 6, 1884, as a band of cowboys rounded up cattle in remote Dundy County, Nebraska, a blazing object streaked out of the sky and crashed some distance from them, leaving (according to a contemporary newspaper account) "fragments of cog-wheels and other pieces of machinery . . . glowing with heat so intense as to scorch the grass for a long distance around each fragment." The light was so intense that it blinded one of the witnesses.

Nebraska

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4 days later the '60 foot by ten foot' cylinder had dissolved without a trace. Local residents were asked about it years later and had no idea and it was judged a probable hoax.

It's intriguing to me and others that the idea of alien visits and UFO crashes seems ingrained in our psyche. It leads to questions without answer. Are we creating the UFO myth from imagination or wishful thinking? Are we projecting our ideas on unknown phenomena? Guys like Mac Tonnies wondered if the UFO phenomena shapes itself to our preconceptions. He wasn't alone in considering the mystery to be almost unfathomable. What past cultures saw as angels and dragons, we see as technological beings. The UFO subject has always reflected the beliefs of the people interested in it. Ronald Reagan suggested an alien threat. Greer and the Exopolitics crowd claim world peace and free energy is waiting for us. Anti-Nuclear Weaponry guys believe UFOs will prevent nuclear war. Some see them as benevolent and others as hostile.

One of the seminal purveyors of the 'ET are benevolent' hypothesis was the well-known hoaxer Adamski. He supplied photos and tales of ET discussions. His claims pre-empt those of Exopolitics by 60 years.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/074c6dc165f5.gif[/atsimg]

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George Adamski (April 17, 1891 – April 23, 1965) was a Polish-born American citizen who became widely known in ufology circles, and to some degree in popular culture, after he claimed to have photographed ships from other planets, met with friendly Nordic alien "Space Brothers", and to have taken flights with them. The first of the so-called contactees of the 1950s, he styled himself to be a "philosopher, teacher, student and saucer researcher." though was often considered to be deluded or a fraud.[2]

Adamski Wiki Also...in his own words.

My favourite hoax is the shaven space monkey created by a bunch of friends in the 50s. I U2Ud it to JKrog and he actually swore. Tut tut tut! 'WTF is that?!' was the response

Three frightened young men were waiting nervously by the side of the road. And lying there on the tarmac in front of the truck, illuminated by the vehicle's headlights, was a bizarre two-foot tall creature that looked for all the world like a space alien. The young men spilled out a strange tale. They said they'd been out in their truck "honkey-tonking" around, when they came over a hill and suddenly found themselves careening towards a flying saucer that was 'glowing red all over.'

Three small aliens were outside the craft wandering up and down the highway. The boys jammed on their brakes, but couldn't avoid hitting one of the aliens. The other two spacemen made it to the ship and blasted off.

The Great Monkey Hoax

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/41b1a1db2242.jpg[/atsimg] It's fugly!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1d8555db2675.jpg[/atsimg]1960s Tinfoil Spaceman Hoax

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/89cf1a91c327.jpg[/atsimg]Billy Meier on Venus?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/663c732a119c.jpg[/atsimg]Billy Meier's alien is shy.

I've tried to be serious and light-hearted in this OP. UFOs are a stone cold fact. They're out there. I've seen them and many others have too. A big question is how much of the mythology surrounding them is ours? Where does imagination and interpretation meet reality?

EDIT to add a couple of links and nail a spelling error that I can't find under edit

[edit on 17-2-2010 by Kandinsky]

I'm not new to Ufology but this is a well put together thread. Really impressed, good job! S&F from me.

Interesting points, and excellent thread, but I must point out something...while art often imitates life, sometimes life imitates art.

For example, in 1898, Morgan Robertson wrote an incredible story called, The Wreck of the Titan. It was about an unsinkable luxury ocean liner named The Titan, carrying the world's elite, and was on its maiden voyage when it struck an iceberg, and sank. The ship was encouraged to break speed records, and had inadequate lifeboats for the passengers. A third of the passengers drowned. It was never published, due to editors stating it was too unbelievable.

www.gettysburgghosts.net...

Sound familiar? Remarkably similar to The Titanic, and it's sinking, in 1912, almost 14 years later. So, just because a fiction of the past is similar, doesn't necessarily make the later event a lie. Just had to point that out....

Just because these charlatans' account may be similar to a more reliable event, doesn't make the event untrue...

S&F nicley put together. Don't forget our recent Morristown UFO hoax and im not sure if the McPhearson tape would qualify as a "hoax" but it was made and believers just kinda ran with it. But if anyone ever tries to show me the McPhearson tape again i will throw up.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by zaiger]

reply to post by Kandinsky


Very good thread and presentation, S/F from me.

I would also like to add a great thread by internos on CGI hoaxes...

CGI UFOs | Some of the best ones

I would also like to add that the Mcpherson tape (as already mentioned) is LARGELY misinterpreted as the real deal, it is NOT, it was a "blair witch" style movie. You can search ATS for more info.

Also the "Apollo 20" UFO is also widely regarded as a hoax, which I concur with. It is best to do a little research, especially on ATS before taking ANYTHING you see or hear as real.

However, even with all the hoaxes there are MANY great and legit UFO related cases, you just gotta know where to look. Here is a starting point:

The ATS UFO/Alien Chronological Thread Directory

reply to post by Gazrok

Sound familiar? Remarkably similar to The Titanic, and it's sinking, in 1912, almost 14 years later. So, just because a fiction of the past is similar, doesn't necessarily make the later event a lie. Just had to point that out....

This is part of the point I was trying to make. Later events aren't lies. Some of these events are true and foreshadowed by fiction and hoaxers. It raises questions of whether the tail is wagging the dog? I'm a known skeptic, but that doesn't stop me from speculating.

Fictional accounts of cigar-shaped craft, 'greys' and flying saucers have become actual accounts of "cigar-shaped craft, 'greys' and flying saucers," years later. Human nature is at work here...maybe some other element too? What that element is....is deeply fascinating.

Great thread I enjoyed reading that a lot.

Have you ever noticed, that as soon as one person pops up and calls any incident debunked, you see a lot of people move away from it and consider it as so, but if you look at the claims, they are based usually on unsubstantiated and instant judgment?

Now I am not saying all UFO stories and evidence are real, far from it, I would like to share something every single one of you can check, if your that way inclined that is.

It is based around the Billy Meier case, the case is always called a deliberate hoax, and has been made to be a laughing stock, however if you seriously look into Billy's story, going way back to where it all started, you will after a while notice something.

It was only after Billy invited an American couple to come visit that it all began to go pear shaped, they convinced Billy to allow them to tell his story in the USA, with the usual promises of his story getting out, just like he was supposedly asked by his visitors from space, he always claimed his intentions where to do what Semjase asked him to do, Billy was a little naive IMO but went ahead and allowed them to take some of his pictures amongst other things with them, they often contacted him to keep him up to date with what was happening, but the true story was that they never had any intention of helping Billy, they wanted to use his story for their own benefit.

I visited Billy Meier in 1996, it was hard to even get close to him, because of all the people living with him, it was like they where in control of all his movements and who he spoke too, some of these people have to be amongst the strangest people I have ever come across, in the three days I was visiting going back and forth to a hotel, I witnessed these people actually advising Billy, even going as far as telling him what to do, but that was just my impression.

When I finally got to talk to him, and explain why I was there at first he was a little stand offish, but when I explained I was not there to share with others, that what I wanted was to satisfy my own curiosity, I spent in total maybe 8 hours in all in the three days talking with him, and he explained to me about how he had been duped, about how his word no longer stood for anything because it had been taken out of his control, he had nothing to do with any ray gun, what he said was people where doing things and passing over pictures without consulting him about most of it, even his wife had been drawn into it because she was sick and tired of the interruption in their lives, but I never got to speak to her or anyone who was around before the claims of hoax.

I found him to be a down to earth man, and the impression I got was he believed everything he was telling me, and I had not a single reason to not believe him, he got quite a little upset when he spoke about how what he thought was for the benefit of mankind, was turned into a huge joke.

Problem was he had let it all get to him, I suppose I would also, would probably send me to the asylum after a breakdown because of what happened, but don't take the word of anyone if your serious about finding the truth, it's easy for someone to sit behind a computer and read fractions of information always posted by people who have never been near Switzerland or even tried to correspond with Billy himself.

In my honest opinion, Billy was eventually set up, to shut him up, to discredit him and his evidence, who did this? I have some suspicions, but without firm evidence of them deliberately discrediting him what would be the point?

There is evidence of those who visited Billy, and their promises of what they offered, even evidence that they never had any intention of helping Billy, he was paraded in front of the World, then had his world kicked from beneath him, taking down the whole pack of cards, there are still many people who like me believe what he said in the beginning, but only because we went and asked ourselves without relying on books written by people more interested in money than preserving the respect of a very likable man.

One guy in particular who does the lecture circuit I spoke to, had to hide his embarrassment when I realized he didn't even know Billy had one arm, how much research do these people actually do before they claim to understand? the least I would call it would be lazy, IMO it is a lot more than that, they make money of a man they discredit, and always bring up the same evidence to claim a hoax, the Ray Gun being amongst the most used.

It's just a shame so many are willing to take their word for it, I also find it extremely sad that when these people say to use logic, that they themselves do not follow their own advice, it is a case of do as I say, not as I do.

There is so much I have left out of this post, but believe me when I say, it could fill several books, books which will never be written, unless someone did it who went into it with a completely open mind, and intentions of telling the real truth behind Billy's story and those who came later.

BTW I am writing this post, not with the intention of debating the Billy Meier case, but for nothing other than telling another version of events told to me by the man himself, you are always entitled to your opinion.

Awesome thread my friend! I can tell a lot of work and effort went into this. The presentation is perfect and the content is superb.

Where does imagination and interpretation meet reality?

That is a fantastic question! Of course that is assuming that reality is not spawned from somethings imagination. What if we were just thoughts of some being? Strange.... Sorry for going off topic, but it was a great question!

Starred and Flagged!!

great thread home biscuit............yea hoaxs are the worst. someone gets pleasure by making something up because their lives are so fu***d

What a great thread, Kandinsky! Thank you for posting this.

I would also like to add cropcircles to your thread, since a lot of people believe they are messages from alien beings, sometimes even some kind of predictions for the future. And I don't know how many times I have seen people claim that it it impossible for just some guys with rope and planks to create these complex patterns.

But the truth is that humans CAN and DO create the most complex and beautiful cropcircles. And some of the circlemakers in England actually have their own website! I have posted the link to it several times before here at ATS, and it has been ignored just as many times by the "believers"... But once again I hope at least a few will visit the site, even though it is not the easiest to navigate through.

The circlemakers may not be actual hoaxers in the traditional sense of the word. But they consider it a great success when a piece of their art is jugded to be "real" and becomes a part of the alien mythology, so they don't take public credit for their work. Yet at their website they have posted photos of what they call "Top of the crops" from different crop circle seasons. (The famous "jellyfish" is in there too!) And pics of some patterns and logos they have been hired to make as part of advertising campaigns. Like this one, which they needed 18 diagrams to complete:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/436cc3fdb96c.jpg[/atsimg]
www.circlemakers.org...

You can even learn how to create your own crop circles, they have a "Beginners guide"!
www.circlemakers.org...

reply to post by azzllin
Thanks for your post, well delivered.

The Meier book, 'Light Ships' took my breath away when I was a teenager. Photos in the middle and lots of sound evidence. As I got older, it didn't seem so true. Since then, I've looked at a lot of his claims. There's a dedicated wiki fanpage of his images. My conclusion is that he is a hoaxer and people have tried to sustain his credibility for financial or publicity reasons.

That's my conclusion and it doesn't imply yours is any less reasonable.

In this thread, I'm suggesting that hoaxes are real and not all UFO witnesses are sinister or disinfo. Ufology is built on the BS as much as the good cases.

Most folk hadn't read H.G Wells or even considered ET and spaceships. So I'm wondering why reality is reflecting fiction? Don't get me wrong, I'm genuinely confused. An ATS member recently recounted a UFO sighting from when they were a kid. The friend saw a disc with ridiculous amounts of antennae and he saw a disc that was smooth. The phenomena of UFOs seems to reflect the ideas of the witness. That's very weird and very interesting

reply to post by ziggystar60
Hiya Ziggy, long time

Circlemakers has been a favourite site, especially the forums that explained (obscurely to avoid the authorities) how they made the circles. The best circles should get the same credit as any artist. Banksy is an urban graffiti terrorist...circle makers should get the same respect. Maybe more? They have more organisation but recognition would mean a Court appearance on property damage charges!

PS. Banksy's Liverpool graffiti is just poor...sigh...

It is a struggle, on both sides of the fence if I am honest.

The fact remains however, until someone comes along with undeniable evidence, the speculation will continue, we all know we have not seen the end of hoaxes and those who spend so much time on trying to create them.

There are people who create these video's who are not intending to hoax anyone, the Haiti video being one example, more to show off their skills and get a foot in the door to a career they want so badly, but like many other careers the hard part is getting in that door.

The strongest point which I find comforting, is those who are skeptical, but still want to see for themselves what people are talking about, I have nothing but the greatest respect for that kind of character, the determination to know for sure, a need to know and understand, making judgment on what they know rather than what they have heard, I think that is the most important way to understand, whether it be Humans, or ET, to know for certain and without doubt, it can be the only way if anyone wants to be honest to themselves, I also understand those who just plain don't want to know, everyone has their reasons.

As you have said, there are those who are so determined to create the hoax that fools all, something I doubt will ever happen, it's like a game of Football (Soccer) a game made up of 22 players on the pitch, and 42,000 referees, it makes the world a great place to live, as long as people can navigate around inside the world, and still remember themselves and their well being.

The whole world of ufology can send people around the bend, Maybe tin foil was made for this before we used it to cook with, who knows?

reply to post by Kandinsky


isnt it funny how the obvious hoaxes sometimes and even ones that seem to be real that get debunked very easily end up being ones that peop-le believe and the ones that dont get debunked like allagash are the ones that people forget? it doesnt make sense! people believe hoxers but the ones that seem so very very true its like people dont believe or forget...its ass backwards!

i was thinking earlier...you know when it comes to finding proof or trying to prove aliens or whatever that since they are highly advanced in intelligence and technology and us being more primitive that even some murder cases takes insects and hair folicles to solve even as sloppy as we are it comes down to science or forensics if you will!

that being said there are still murder cases unsolved so with these beings being more advanced we prolly dont have the science or technology to find proof anyway think about it! they have no hair so therefore no hair folicles there not killin no one so no insects! what kinda proof you gonna look for? i mean really!

[edit on 17-2-2010 by metalholic]

Originally posted by Kandinsky
People lie for a number of reasons...attention, notoriety, mental illness and sometimes good old fashioned mischief. Some incidents are just for the sheer amusing hell of it. The subject is also infested by people with agendas more elaborate than this. Cover-ups and disinformation are not always a paranoid fantasy. They happen. A lot of time and effort has been applied to ensure that every supposed fact is counter balanced with a lie, if, but and maybe.

Kandinsky -great thread and nicely presented too.
I think you make some very astute points above and, seeing as the thread is devoted to 'fictions' within Ufology, I thought it would be appropriate to include these 'absurdly erroneous' USAF UFO explanations as well.
Cheers.

A very good idea for a thread, knowing what's real and what's not is very important, and sometimes we can find some things that look like the sources for things that are presented as present-day ideas.

I would like to add the description of the Selenites from "The first men in the Moon", by H. G. Wells.

It seemed as though it wasn't a face, as though it must needs be a mask, a horror, a deformity, that would presently be disavowed or explained. There was no nose, and the thing had dull bulging eyes at the side - in the silhouette I had supposed they were ears. There were no ears. ... I have tried to draw one of these heads, but I cannot. There was a mouth, downwardly curved, like a human mouth in a face that stares ferociously. ...

And...

The skin, like everything else, looked bluish, but that was on account of the light; and it was hard and shiny, quite in the beetle-wing fashion, not soft, or moist, or hairy, as a vertebrated animal's would be. Along the crest of the head was a low ridge of whitish spines running from back to front, and a much larger ridge curved on either side over the eyes. The Selenite who untied me used his mouth to help his hands.

It has the characteristics of several Alien reports.

It is really hard to disseminate which UFO cases are real and which are hoax's. But then again how can we verify if a UFO case is real when the only tools available to the public is the ability to prove it false? We can take an image and run it through photoshop to see if it is fake but if we cannot come to that conclusion then how are we to take the necessary steps to validify the image or source? That is when we enter the realm of conspiracy and speculation.

From a mere personal standpoint I feel safe in saying that UFO's are in fact a real phenomenon that should be continually studied. That perhaps one day we may have the solid resources to verify it's credibility by comparing it to an actual 'Identified Flying Object.'

[q

There is so much I have left out of this post, but believe me when I say, it could fill several books, books which will never be written, unless someone did it who went into it with a completely open mind, and intentions of telling the real truth behind Billy's story and those who came later.

BTW I am writing this post, not with the intention of debating the Billy Meier case, but for nothing other than telling another version of events told to me by the man himself, you are always entitled to your opinion. Wow this is really well stated and I could not agree more . I still believe his pictures speak for themselves . Most are obviously not tricks of perception or camera tricks and of course CG did not exist at the time. (SRY azzllin cant seem to get the quote to work right .)

[edit on 17-2-2010 by bluemooone2]

[edit on 17-2-2010 by bluemooone2]

[edit on 17-2-2010 by bluemooone2]

reply to post by Kandinsky


I wish more people would appraoch the UFO subjct this way..I have seen UFO's myself.However some UFO cases are real and the evidence seems to support that they are not any governments from this planet.My UFO case was incredible.