Reasons To Believe

reply to post by nik1halo


Well, I was going to post. But you took every single keystroke from my hands! Kudos for you, that's exactly the way I feel. One example of wars because of religion (although I have not studied it thoroughly) was Cortez and his peoples against the Mayans. Don't believe in our religion? We will kill you, and all of YOUR beliefs that do not coincide with ours!
As for some atheists, not all, they ridicule believers and ostracize(sp) them.
Neither will hush without proof. No god, or god exists. Period. It's like UFO's! It's getting ridiculous.
Everyone is going to continue bashing everyone, however we need to let it go. Non believers, quit trying to get people to prove a god exists and believers, quit trying to save people. It works both ways.
If either of these groups has a problem with the other, then they should stay off those types of threads.
Now, who unbiased and open minded (to both sides) is with me?

By the way, I consider myself someone who does not believe in religion, however I do believe in spirituality and creationism. Yes, I believe we were created, I just haven't figured out who did it yet. HaHa. Agnostic, maybe?

Peace and Love, ATSers.
-FCL

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Conclusion


What book are you reading? If angels did not have free will, then how did they rebel?

Psalm 103:20-21:
"Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word. Bless ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure."


Seriously...read that passage...consider it...reflect on it.

Did God say...Oi, Angels...REBEL!!!
no?
Did god get pleasure out of the rebellion? doubtful unless he is one twisted snip
...which means that the angels didnt do his commandments as stated...which makes that passage false, which corrupts the bible, which makes the whole book invalid

The passage doesnt say angels "sometimes" does his commandments...and "if it suits them" does his pleasure...its a matter of fact statement of how they are to act, period. They are his robots and slaves to his whims and desires.

You sure you want to bring up the rebellion that clearly invalidates the whole book to begin with? I think its more fun to ignore that little issue.

Yes let us really look at it.

Bless the Lord, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments.

Okay just from the word THAT we can solve this.
He is obviously talking to the angels THAT do his commandments.
Not the one's THAT don't.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by Conclusion]

reply to post by First Curiosity Last


LOL. Really come on. I thought we discussed this. To hold God responsible for what someone does wrong, but in His name, is totally ludicrous. Seriously. Is that the best you got?

If I went out and did something wrong in the name of Fredrich Lickstein, would you hold him responsible? Please only post well thought out reasons for your disbelief.

Seeking objective truth is a variation of the fantasy concerning the Christian-religious ideal of purity. It rejects humanity, and constructs a beyond-human realm. It is a life-denying activity -- as all you Nietzscheans should know. But, I don't think Nietzsche would call himself a philosopher if there was no value in it.

The most important thing in philosophy is first eliminating your perspective, and then constructing it whole again after being humbled over and over - especially by Kant. Be open to discourse, but don't construct your ideas from authorities telling you how you should think, or you will never know why you think what you do, the way you do. Know that you know nothing: Platonic lesson number one. Then acknowledge everybody else knows exactly as much as you - nothing.

This is at once an exercise in humiliation and empowerment. Embrace the power you have with your mind. It is amazing. Evola conquered mountains. It evoked the power of self-transcendence. We may not have access to the heavens, or objective knowledge, or whatever you want to call it, but we have access to ourself and this is where philosophy should always return to.

reply to post by spy66


Hmmm. I like the way you think.

Now that is a wise post. You have a sharp mind there my friend.

Good job.

The most important thing in philosophy is first eliminating your perspective, and then constructing it whole again after being humbled over and over - especially by Kant. Be open to discourse, but don't construct your ideas from authorities telling you how you should think, or you will never know why you think what you do, the way you do. Know that you know nothing: Platonic lesson number one. Then acknowledge everybody else knows exactly as much as you - nothing.

reply to post by concernedcitizan


VERY RIGHT! This is also the rule in both camps anyway. Concerning this most important topic.
I have stopped looking for questions because there is always an answer.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Conclusion

 

If God is All-Powerful than nothing can happen that is outside his power to control. Therefore sin cannot pop into existence and evil cannot suddenly pop into existence. If God is All-Powerful than he has in his power the ability to stop evil and return all things to good with a mere thought...

He's got you there. If you argue that the is absolute good (God) and absolute evil (satan) because thats how things have to be, then isn't God governed by some absolute universal code? So either, God created evil, or evil has to exist.

A person can believe in the Bible or other religious texts or other religions if they so choose.

People have the gift of choice. Responsibility, must be used with this gift.

A person can make almost any choice a person wants. Some choices are viewed as acceptable or unacceptable to people as a whole. This sort of group consciousness - general moral belief system is controlled by the choices of the individual persons in the people.

A person can choose to focus on the positive message and live their life believing positive ideas. This promotes positive self talk and self think, sense of being well and high self esteem.

A person can choose to focus on the not positive or negative message and live their life believing not positive or negative ideas. This promotes not positive or negative self talk and self think, sense of not being well, and low self esteem.

The ideas a person experiences influence the way they think and develop. An emotional contagion is an idea or expression of idea that can spread an emotion. E.G. A person walks into a room in which 20 people are laughing, the 21 st person is much more likely to be laughing than if the 20 people in the room were fighting. In the case that the people are fighting the 21st person is much more likely to be fighting.

People understand and realize that the situation we create for our children will impact their growth and development. Therefore we should put our best effort forth to better the environment and world. We all live here so we should all be aware of that and consider it in our thought processes.

A person may choose to read the words and compile the ideas that the words represent to find a message. The people can move forward with the message only when it has been understood AND applied correctly.

A person chooses to care about details or a person chooses to wish away dull care. A person chooses to think or chooses not to think.

A person thinks that all the responsibility of the entire human species should land on the entire human species equally.

A person thinks that believing in a person because their ideas are profound or life changing does not make that person forever responsible for giving other people ideas.

A person chooses to let their life be decided by the choices of people, do the people choose to let the person live?

word think word think word think

[edit on 16-2-2010 by Coemgen]

Randyvs,

I think you have me pegged all wrong. maybe

blowing you off like most others on this site

is the wrong way to go. Sometimes people are open to having a real discussion. And I would not start posting on a thread if that was not my intent. "Judge not yet ye be judged" or something like that right? I know that may be considered a cheap shot, but for real, this is a conversation about religion and morals and all that good stuff, give each opinion due respect. I have given yours the same.

I have said a few times on this thread, and countless in others that if I believed, I KNOW my life would be easier, but some part of me will not let me have blind faith in anything. No god, no person, no spec of dirt on the ground do I have blind faith in. I give people the benefit of the doubt, but that is allowing someone to show you they are what they say they are, not blind faith.

I don't "see the pain" in your God's face because it has never been shown. Some say you must seek God, I have sought, oh have I sought out his face. I plainly, at the edge of my rope asked what I was told was God to show me something, anything, and please PLEASE let me know you are out there. I received nothing but silence. That jaded me at the time, cooler heads have since prevailed, as you hopefully can see.

The point is, your comment that

Sooner or later you realise the reason you are still asking questions is
because you don't want to believe the truth.

is completely off base.

[edit on 2/16/2010 by iamsupermanv2]

[edit on 2/16/2010 by iamsupermanv2]

reply to post by Conclusion


I bashed no-one in my reply to your post. As well as called no names.

The basics I refer to ARE the archeolgical facts, this is why I referred to a city. As you read, I was speaking of witnesses to so called miracles.

I honoured my grandmother by burning that book.

Though I do not hold it against you for misrepresenting what I did to honour her memory. It was my way. I didnt do it for you to understand. I did it for her and the things she did for me.
Thank you.

reply to post by afterschoolfun


Ok God created evil NEXT!

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Conclusion

 

If God is All-Powerful than nothing can happen that is outside his power to control. Therefore sin cannot pop into existence and evil cannot suddenly pop into existence. If God is All-Powerful than he has in his power the ability to stop evil and return all things to good with a mere thought....

And yet one third of the angels rebel. And yet the snake gets into the garden. And yet the best plan for Salvation he can come up with is to send his only son to die an undeserved and horrific death. None of that makes sense.

Now that is a great question. One worthy of an answer.

A question for your question. Why would God give us free will and then just make us do whatever he wanted us to do. He wants us to come to him to show him that we can make the right decisions. If he wanted robots he would have made them.

Yes an undeserved horrific death, that had to happen or no one would go to heaven, at the hands of man. That is how much he loves us. I would just say Thank you. Ever heard the old saying--Don't look a gift horse in the mouth--?

reply to post by Conclusion

Jesus states that we will ask for signs and still not believe

err - so why did he allegedly preform miracles to convince onlookeres - hey thats what your own bible claims

reply to post by randyvs


This begs the question:

Why would a just, all knowing, omnipresent God create such a thing? Or allow it to continue? If the answer is "God created evil", yet God cannot get rid of evil, evil must be on the same plane as God.

I am not trying to attack, I am trying for clarification. I'm aware this may be offensive, but please, that is not it's purpose.


Ooooor...say God created evil to keep us in check. It has obviously gotten out of control. Why not go POOF there is no evil. Like he did with the towns of Soddom and Gomora.

[edit on 2/16/2010 by iamsupermanv2]

reply to post by psyko45


Yeah well, burning something that someone leaves to you to remember them buy is not what I would call honoring their memory. The words that she wrote in that bible are lost to you forever. I know I sounded harsh. I am sorry about that. It was wrong. That just got me angry.

is the wrong way to go. Sometimes people are open to having a real discussion. And I would not start posting on a thread if that was not my intent. "Judge not yet ye be judged" or something like that right? I know that may be considered a cheap shot, but for real, this is a conversation about religion and morals and all that good stuff, give each opinion due respect. I have given yours the same.

reply to post by iamsupermanv2

Did I not already speak to this. Saying no more was acknowledge ing I
was wrong in that assumjption. If you want to travel this road further we have to skip merrily, pulling pigtails along the way .

reply to post by Conclusion


I was hoping this would come up!

God gave us free will.

The free will to do good. the free will to do bad.

In order to show him that we chose the good path to him.

Why create something and see if it worships you?

IF they do, great, come on in, if not, go burn in hell.

reply to post by randyvs


I apologize then. I did not get that impression, but since that was your intent I retract.

reply to post by iamsupermanv2

Ooooor...say God created evil to keep us in check. It has obviously gotten out of control. Why not go POOF there is no evil. Like he did with the towns of Soddom and Gomora

k I'll be with you in a sec. hold tight.

Believe me, nothing is out of control where God is concerned. Consider the 2/3 of the angels who chose to stay with the one who created them.
God himself knowing all things realising this one called Satan( that he created and by his own God given beauty let pride,( sin) creep in) could have taken more if it were not for them staying in good sense with the creator of all.
Does God not owe it to them his loyal to let them see for themselves
the hell that comes from going the way Satan has gone.
That is really all that is going on right now the war. It must be allowed
so all can see God is not unjust or a tyrant.

He is truly righteous in every way imaginable.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by Conclusion


I suppose thats why I do my best not to be ethnocentric. Different cultures even within the US have different moreys and folkways. Its a sub-culture thing. I took a chance that you might take what I told you wrong. A chance that would have been worth taking had you grasped what lay beneath the superficial part of the story.

No worries or need for apology though.

Peace