The idea of Flying Saucers pre-1940s

That's for sure... great comic covers... War of the Worlds was like 1890? I'm sure it goes back pretty much forever.

War of the worlds was first published in 1898 just to let everyone know.

Maybe i had misundertooded the topic..but as far as i know there are much older "Disc shaped" ufos representations then just 30's, 40's comic books or magazines.

The baptism of Christ

More exemples:

More...

This are just some exemples in paintings, google a bit and you will see that more evidence of this type exists in ancient history in many other ways and forms.

As someone that finds the extraterrestrial hypothesis untenable, finding instead more sense in a paraphysical explanation, I find the wave of mystery dirigibles (as mentioned earlier) to be a forerunner to the great UFO waves post WWII.

What must also be taken into account are the 'hard' and 'soft' sightings. Soft sightings have been noted from Biblical times and are often explained away as a variety of aerial phenomena. The hard sightings seem to adjust to fit in with what humanity can accept at the time, or what the individual can find acceptable. i.e. Religious/Occultic/Otherworldly etc...

Originally posted by Beelzebubba
As someone that finds the extraterrestrial hypothesis untenable, finding instead more sense in a paraphysical explanation,

Understood

I find the wave of mystery dirigibles (as mentioned earlier) to be a forerunner to the great UFO waves post WWII.

Forerunners they are.

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
This are just some exemples in paintings, google a bit and you will see that more evidence of this type exists in ancient history in many other ways and forms.

Or does it?

Sometimes we should look at these things through the perspective of the arts instead of our own wanting eyes.

Art and UFOs

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
This are just some exemples in paintings, google a bit and you will see that more evidence of this type exists in ancient history in many other ways and forms.

Or does it?

Sometimes we should look at these things through the perspective of the arts instead of our own wanting eyes.

Art and UFOs

That is just awesome. I have never seen this before, and that explains sooooo much, while in great detail. Thanks you for this, I'm now saving this link, just encase the paintings come up in debate.

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
Maybe i had misundertooded the topic..but as far as i know there are much older "Disc shaped" ufos representations then just 30's, 40's comic books or magazines.

The baptism of Christ

More exemples:

More...

This are just some exemples in paintings, google a bit and you will see that more evidence of this type exists in ancient history in many other ways and forms.

These are all explainable by commonly used artistic devices of the time.

They have been completely explained right here at ATS by an erudite poster named Cicada.
Click here if you care to know the facts.

Harte

As you go back in time, it can be argued that people will describe things that they see to the best of their abilities according to the technology of the time. Hence "airships", "ghost rockets", "saucers", "flying shields" and "dragons".

Conversely - and this is an interesting point - assuming that the craft being observed have intelligence behind them, what if the occupants actually create an illusion in order to mask their craft - and heres more of a kicker - what if that illusion is attuned to the observer, so that they see what they want to see?

Think about it. Ever wonder why skeptics don't ever seem to see UFO's?

Maybe it really is all about perception?

Originally posted by neformore

Conversely - and this is an interesting point - assuming that the craft being observed have intelligence behind them, what if the occupants actually create an illusion in order to mask their craft - and heres more of a kicker - what if that illusion is attuned to the observer, so that they see what they want to see?

So during the winter time, I should see Santa's sleigh, and during the fall, I should see witches riding on broom sticks. Sorry, but I just can't buy that theory.

reply to post by Umbra Sideralis



Another Source...

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
Maybe i had misundertooded the topic..but as far as i know there are much older "Disc shaped" ufos representations then just 30's, 40's comic books or magazines.
The baptism of Christ
More exemples:
More...
This are just some exemples in paintings, google a bit and you will see that more evidence of this type exists in ancient history in many other ways and forms.

These are all explainable by commonly used artistic devices of the time.
They have been completely explained right here at ATS by an erudite poster named Cicada.
Click here if you care to know the facts.
Harte

Harte, cicada did indeed his upmost best in trying to explain these artistic devices of the time, but that doesn’t mean that it is the only and therefore right explanation for them.

There is in my opinion another possible and very realistic explanation for them to.

Originally posted by Cicada
Next we'll deal with image 1 and 1b of the above post, Carlo Crivelli's "Annunciation". The reasons why some would feel this image depicts UFO contact is obvious but once again most of this confusion lies in poor, blurry reproductions. It is in no way uncommon for Annunciation scenes to feature a ray of light descending from the sky to contact the Madonna.
What appears here to be a flying saucer is in fact an illuminated cloud within which are two rings of golden angels. This is quite clear in better reproductions:

Essentially the same can be said of the Aert DeGelder's (a rather obscure artist) "Baptism of Christ". The image as provided in the above post is extremely poor. In a better version the circular field in the sky is obviously occupied by a white dove, a standard symbol of the Holy Spirit. As an aspect of the Holy Trinity it is wholly normal that it is depicted within a luminous circle.
Representing divine entities with radiant disks or halos is common in iconography of many cultures and religions. A clearer image again makes this easy to see:

There is lot of available information which is recorded by many cultures and religions that indicates that the UFO/ET phenomenon CQ presence we have today was also there in our history back then..

And those artistic devices of the time, those illuminated clouds within which are two rings of golden angels and those radiant disks or halos could be in fact representations of the same kind of crafts [UFO’s] we see today.

And I think that is the right explanation for them.



[edit on 17/2/10 by spacevisitor]

reply to post by spacevisitor
Sometimes art is just art. People see what they want to see. Is there a diary or journal by any pre-20th Century artist that describes witnessing flying saucers? There is not. If there was, ATS would have 20 threads with variations of OMG! UFO! and Proof! in the title.

Myth, symbolism and allegory in pre-20th Century Art was ubiquitous. Sun and Moon were portrayed as discs. Sometimes the artist used personification to represent the Sun. None of which really supports the idea that Sun, Moon or star in these old canvasses where documentary evidence of aliens.

PS. Harte's a grumpy ba****d, but he's seldom wrong around here.

Originally posted by maus80

There is clearly a small flying disc at the top middle. Fashionwise it looks like a product of the 20s. Any information from when specifically this is?

reply to post by Skyfloating


That is from Frank R. Paul's work in Amazing Story magazine done in 1929

[edit on 17-2-2010 by zaiger]

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

Sometimes art is just art. People see what they want to see.

You are right Kandinsky, sometimes art is just art, but sometimes art isn’t just art, and in those cases the artist adds something to his artwork that is real and not just a figment of one's imagination.

And also in this case I think it is very realistic to assume the possibilty that those things painted in there are not the artists figment of one's imagination but his/her expression of certain knowledge of experiences he/she had with what we call today the UFO phenomenon.

Your saying that people see what they want to see is partial true in my opinion, because that is sorely not always the case.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Is there a diary or journal by any pre-20th Century artist that describes witnessing flying saucers? There is not. If there was, ATS would have 20 threads with variations of OMG! UFO! and Proof! in the title.

Well, that there are no diaries or journal of any pre-20th Century artists found yet doesn’t mean there were no artists that not witnessed a flying saucer.

Because being not an artist myself, I nevertheless have witnessed one time a very strange flying/hovering light emitting object and I don’t have a diary or journal about it also.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Myth, symbolism and allegory in pre-20th Century Art was ubiquitous. Sun and Moon were portrayed as discs. Sometimes the artist used personification to represent the Sun. None of which really supports the idea that Sun, Moon or star in these old canvasses where documentary evidence of aliens.

Of course those Sun, Moon or star portrayed as discs in these old canvasses where not documentary evidence of aliens, no one would see that so.

But there is however as I assume you also know a lot of other very interesting historic information available wherein experiences from people back then are described who as it seems very clearly did had encounters with flying saucers and their occupants pre-20th Century.

Skyfloating say that in much better words then I can, therefore I post his remark about it here.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Ancient accounts around the world speak – almost without exception – of “Sky People” and “Sky Gods” descending to planet earth, flying through the skies, coming from and returning to the stars. Many accounts even specifically name the stars from which those “Gods” travelled to earth (Native Hawaiian legends for example claiming we are descendant from “Sky Gods” who came from the Pleiades). It is from such worldwide concordance that the “Ancient Astronaut Theory” arose. The theory is still rejected by large parts of global society because it puts most of our belief-systems to question.

And you know where you can find some threads about that here.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
PS. Harte's a grumpy ba****d, but he's seldom wrong around here.

I respect Harte's view on things and I never see him as a grumpy ba****d either, but we have on certain things just different views and opinions.

[edit on 18/2/10 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by TravisT
So during the winter time, I should see Santa's sleigh, and during the fall, I should see witches riding on broom sticks. Sorry, but I just can't buy that theory.

Not if what is being projected (for want of a better word) conforms with your actual perceptions of reality. You know that neither of those things exist, so why would you see them?

Replacing one object that sticks out like a sore thumb with another isn't actually very good camouflage is it?

You'd be more likely to see an unusual plane. Something akin to what you know is actually real.

The theory would also cover what UFO researchers call "the Oz factor", if the perception method works differently according to the mindset of the people involved.

Just a theory though, I do like to ponder through things now and then...

I skipped ahead on this thread, so apologies if this is redundant. Jacques Vallee wrote a series of books examining flaps of airships going back to the Middle Ages. The medieval airships were just that: medieval ships that floated through the air. His best work, a culmination of his researches is called "Passport To Magonia," in which he draws parallels between modern UFO encounters and folkloric accounts of Fairyland. The airship flaps of the 19th Century are intriguing because they often describe a proper dirigible, although they hadn't been invented yet.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by TravisT
So during the winter time, I should see Santa's sleigh, and during the fall, I should see witches riding on broom sticks. Sorry, but I just can't buy that theory.

Not if what is being projected (for want of a better word) conforms with your actual perceptions of reality. You know that neither of those things exist, so why would you see them?

It still doesn't make sense. UFO's have been caught on video/pics, and you can't capture a hallucination in a pic. Sorry, it just doesn't make sense.

The reason why 'skeptics' may not see as many UFO's, is because they may not be looking for them. I don't even know if UFO's(alien spacecraft) are real, but people who are looking for things in the sky, whether it be a mis-identification or whatever, are the ones who are going to notice the most.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by TravisT]

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Sorry to be a bit uninformed but when was the first "Flying Saucer" type space ship seen and where do you know?,I am a novice at all this sort of thing compaired to most of you so please forgive me for asking a bit of a silly question like this.