US Immigration Policy Wrong?

I was a strong advocate of the boarder patrol and supported tightening our security at the boarder until I watched this eye opening episode of 30 Days.

It follows a member of the Minuteman, a legal immigrant from Cuba. At the beginning of the episode he was strongly against illegal immigration. But the concept of the show, a person undergoes 30 Days in a certain situation. In this episode Frank lives with a family of illegal immigrants for 30 days. Over the course of 30 days, he has his world view drastically changed when he sees what kind of outstanding, hard working individuals they are.

Another issue that is never covered is the extreme poverty immigrants endured in Mexico, leaving the viewer to see for themselves when Frank goes down to Mexico to meet the family of the immigrant family. You get to see the horrendous situation the family endures. You also visit the old house where the immigrants used to live.

I think most will have there heart pulled upon and start to consider a different view point if they were a strong advocate of current immigration laws. View for yourself, then decide.

Let me ask everyone a question...If you were in a similar situation, your family was starving and lived in a shack, would you not try to find a better life? Everyone says, immigration is ok as long as it's legal. But for a family trying to survive on what amounts to maybe a dollar or two, they can not afford to come here legally.

You can view on Hulu for your viewing convenience:

www.hulu.com...

[edit on 13-2-2010 by oconnection]

Unable to watch the video right now, but let me pose a question

Was the irresponsibility on the part of the family brought up? As in having mouths they could not afford to feed. Was that question asked?

This country is rapidly becoming overpopulated, the only sensible solution is to militarize the border for at least a decade to stem the tide of the human tsunami pouring across the border.

[edit on 13-2-2010 by brainwrek]

Originally posted by brainwrek
Unable to watch the video right now, but let me pose a question

Was the irresponsibility on the part of the family brought up? As in having mouths they could not afford to feed. Was that question asked?

This country is rapidly becoming overpopulated, the only sensible solution is to militarize the border for at least a decade to stem the tide of the human tsunami pouring across the border.

[edit on 13-2-2010 by brainwrek]

Watch the video then decide. I had a similar view point as you did before I watched this episode.

You are coming from a perspective that is very American in the sense it is assumed everyone has the opportunity to have the American dream. I feel this isn't the case in Mexico and other 3rd world countries. In many cases it's not because a mother and father are unwilling to support there family, rather it's the opposite. The economical situation causes one to seek out a better life.

"Was the irresponsibility on the part of the family brought up? As in having mouths they could not afford to feed. Was that question asked?"

How about the ill responsibility of the Church? Many residents from Mexico happen to be Catholic. It is taught that condoms and birth control is a sin. Also consider that they can't afford condoms or birth control. Also take into account that poverty breeds ignorance.

One way to solve the economic issues we face from illegal immigration is allow an easier way to gain citizen ship. Get the illegals in the system and start taxing like we are taxed.

I disagree on the idea that this country is becoming overpopulated in a purely physical sense. I feel it's a more an issue of economics and taxation. Put in a system so illegals are working for the system, rather against it.


[edit on 13-2-2010 by oconnection]

reply to post by oconnection


Our policy is too loose, not hard enough. I've seen the video and while am sympathic to the plight of impoverished people, they simply should not be here. The fact that the Mexican's have repeatedly supported corrupt governments is not our faullt.

It does not help that there are Mexicans who have been here for a decade or more who do not speak English and make no attempt to assimilate into this country.

Our borders should be closed and totally closed. After the massive immigration wave in the early part of the last century we put a halt to all immigration in order to assimilate new immigrants. Those immigrants fueled the 20th century in this country. The same thing needs to happen today. The problem with immigration could be fixed in 6 months, well at least 90 percent of the problem. Put troops on the Mexican border, deport all Mexican's in US jails, eliminate the anchor baby scenario for all immigrants. You have a parent who is illegal, you go home with them or you stay without them. Family unification in some cities includes parents and children, brothers and sisters of the parents, grand parents, its a joke.

Funny that the Mexicans want to flow freely over the US border, but have armed soldiers on their southern border to stop Central Americans from coming into Mexico.

Leave Mexico to Mexicans.

Originally posted by oconnection
"Was the irresponsibility on the part of the family brought up? As in having mouths they could not afford to feed. Was that question asked?"

How about the ill responsibility of the Church? Many residents from Mexico happen to be Catholic. It is taught that condoms and birth control is a sin. Also consider that they can't afford condoms or birth control. Also take into account that poverty breeds ignorance.

So not having sex, and thus not creating children they are ill equipped to care for is not an option? It is the Church's fault?

One way to solve the economic issues we face from illegal immigration is allow an easier way to gain citizen ship. Get the illegals in the system and start taxing like we are taxed.

We have a system in place that when utilized properly works well.

I disagree on the idea that this country is becoming overpopulated in a purely physical sense. I feel it's a more an issue of economics and taxation. Put in a system so illegals are working for the system, rather against it.

We need to get the illegals out of the system; remove all incentives for them to be here illegally.
I'm not necessarily saying they should be deported but, rather, we need to elliminate all the things they can receive for free simply by being here and penalize the "enabling" entities that hire them.

Believe me, I Know what hard times are.
I raised three children on my own due to a stain of an ex husband. I went without on many occasions so they could eat.
I have Always worked outstandingly hard yet I never expected anyone in another country or even mine to support us.

I expect peoples of other countries to do the same. Why should I not?

It is not my responsability or that of my outsatndingly hard working grown children to to support the poor of the world.
It can't be done anyway.

Maybe we should make a poor pitiful me documentary. There are plenty of us around that could and it's getting worse daily.

This is a MUST SEE video for anyone interested in the immigration debate, whether you are a citizen, an illegal alien or a Congressman
Immigration Gumballs
www.youtube.com...

Don't get me wrong as I feel for some of the illegals and their home situation but
EVERY country in the world has border laws for Good reason and it's past time for the USA to be enforcing ours .
Not doing so is slowly killing America.

Attrition Through Enforcement
A Cost-Effective Strategy to Shrink the Illegal Population

www.cis.org...

1) eliminating access to jobs through mandatory employer verification of Social Security numbers and immigration status;


2) ending misuse of Social Security and IRS identification numbers, which illegal immigrants use to secure jobs, bank accounts, drivers licenses, and other privileges, and improved information-sharing among key federal agencies;


3) increasing apprehensions and detention of illegal immigrants through partnerships between federal immigration authorities and state and local law enforcement agencies;


4) reducing visa overstays;


5) doubling the number of non-criminal, non-expedited removals;


6) passing state and local laws to discourage the settlement of illegal aliens and to make it more difficult for illegal aliens to conceal their status.



[edit on 13-2-2010 by AmericanDaughter]

I realize I'm probably going to take a lot of flack for posting this but I do not care. Everyone who is against this thread so far has the same mentality which is missing a key point. You seem to be blaming immigrants for being so pour that they can't afford to immigrate legally. I believe most would do it legally if they could afford it.

If you were faced with the same situation you would probably do the same. What we see as Americans is illegals sucking the life out of our system. I agree, this is wrong.

Why not allow for an easier avenue, ie less expensive, to become a citizen? Everyone complains about these factors but they fail to see the underlining issue that immigrants want to become citizens but it's extremely difficult.

Why is that immigrants risk there lives to cross the boarder? Do they do it for fun? Or do they do it because they literally have nothing to loose anyways?

I really don't want to be forced to argue, I understand it may be hard for people to see.


[edit on 13-2-2010 by oconnection]

Thanks Omega, good video.

Remember this?

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
- Emma Lazarus, The New Colossus

Laws aside, it takes no complicated science to understand that our neighbors are struggling. It's simply not financially possible for most of them to come to the US, and to escape their hell in a way that's legally satisfying to our government. Think of the peso's stance against the dollar. This video did an excellent job at portraying the life of someone's situation down in Mexico. Put yourself in their shoes and honestly tell me you'd really opt to remain in # conditions to support your whole family, when there's opportunity just across the border. If you had to make the choice between feeding your family or paying for your citizenship, what would you choose?

Would it be any less American of us to help them rather than turn our backs and declare all out war on the situation because we just want to ignore it and go back to our own little delusional 1950's America? Or have our country's leadership and ideals fallen so much to the wayside, that we have become so selfish to have forgotten our own immigration stories, tracked through our family lineage and history? Most of our own predecessors have dealt with struggles of their own, but through hard work and determination have proved their right to be called an American.

I think the biggest concern is the effects of overpopulation. Those living around Southern California doing labor work know that the job pool in manual labor has been dwindling, and it's harder to find work.

The Mexicans are really left with no other logical choice but to move here to make a better life for their families though.

If you think about it though, a majority is due in part to uncontrolled corporate exploitation and the encouragement of cheap, undocumented labor. We have laws, but companies don't follow them. Instead of our justice system being able to do the right thing and bust their asses, we just slap them on the hand and charge them some petty fine while everyone walks away from responsibility. What the # is that all about?

Want immigration to stop? Don't make it lucrative. Those who want to come into our country need to first pay the price of admission, and declaring their allegiance before being allowed to work here. If we focused more enforcement on businesses than refugees, I'm sure we could achieve border control in a much smarter way. Hell, we have resources to gather intelligence on large countries. Why not make use of them to monitor shady business activity as well?

That's my idealized $0.02, but the reality of it is different. The reality of it is that business owners are in a financial # hole because we have been driven to this point by larger, greedier fish. At this point, do you choose to stop it, or conveniently ignore it and allow these problems to perpetuate?

If I lived in abject poverty, yes, I would lie cheat and steal to get into America and I would do anything I needed to do to keep making money.

Period.

Our immigration policy is faulty in the extreme. We allow far too few people to enter legally, have inadequate facilities to do it (focusing more on enforcement), and have no secured the border yet complain about it.

Want a way to reduce cost of manufacturing American goods? Let these folks in.

Want a way to reduce tax avoidance? Remove State Income taxes and have a solid sales tax.

Want a way to remove social assistance abuse? Remove social assistance, it would ensure those who earn keep the money.

The idea of having to document yourself, especially to the Federal Government, would have brought on riots and revolt before we became totally screwed up.

Simply allowing a free for all, however, acts as a pressure relief valve for Mexico and the associated nations below it. Without that relief, they might actually have to tend their own shops (meaning the people).

Mexico has a lot to account for, and it's well past time to turn the screws on them quite a bit.

reply to post by oconnection


You know if I could walk into my local bank and rob it I would. Being in the US illegally is plain and simple theft. There are all kinds of things that folks do where you can say "if you were in that spot and could do it and you would". Nonsense

They should be rounded up and sent home period. If Mexico does not want to stop the flow, we can cut off the $14bn in aid we send them every year. We can also strongly advise US citizens from travelling to Mexico. The fact that they can't get their own house in order does not mean that they have to create disorder in ours

Originally posted by oconnection
I realize I'm probably going to take a lot of flack for posting this but I do not care. Everyone who is against this thread so far has the same mentality which is missing a key point. You seem to be blaming immigrants for being so pour that they can't afford to immigrate legally. I believe most would do it legally if they could afford it.

No...

I'm not sure if you get the point of the flack.

Many here have had enough already. "Illegal or legal" NO MORE.

We don't want to be Mexico II or China II or Europe II or Africa II etc. Enough already with the immigrant. We have enough damned people as it is now. It's not our responsibility if they want to immigrate! Legally or illegally. Nor are we responsible for the heartache and the tragic consequences of their own actions.

Just an Opinion.

So not having sex, and thus not creating children they are ill equipped to care for is not an option? It is the Church's fault?

Yea I can imagine it now, "excuse me mexico. could you please stop # ing?"

Abstinence as an idea really doesn't work in most cases. Should they become nuns and priests? I can picture it now. It should be apparent with all the child abuse cases against the Church that not having sex is nearly impossible and probably unhealthy.

It's the Church's fault because they are told that using birth control is a sin. So what happens? You have children because no birth control is used. So in that respect, in those cases, yes it certainly doesn't help.


[edit on 13-2-2010 by oconnection]

reply to post by oconnection


Abstinence does not work in most cases? Hows that work?

LOL

We could solve this problem in one simple step employers must have proof of legal status before hiring and if the get caught they lose there business license. The money would dry up and the cock roaches would scurry back down to Mexico.

Illegal immigrants don't care about America they care about the money take a way the money dry it up. And if you think I am a racist for saying this go and ask them for yourself and they will tell you as the fly the Mexican flag and speak a different language where there allegiance really is.

They have let us be invaded and if we do not stop it they will suck this tit dry. Also I say if you don't speak the language to bad learn it and everything should be printed in English. If you suffer you will learn and if you don't it will weed out the weak one's. This is what my grandfather and many others had to deal with.

[edit on 13-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by oconnection
I realize I'm probably going to take a lot of flack for posting this but I do not care. Everyone who is against this thread so far has the same mentality which is missing a key point. You seem to be blaming immigrants for being so pour that they can't afford to immigrate legally. I believe most would do it legally if they could afford it.

No...

I'm not sure if you get the point of the flack.

Many here have had enough already. "Illegal or legal" NO MORE.

We don't want to be Mexico II or China II or Europe II or Africa II etc. Enough already with the immigrant. We have enough damned people as it is now. It's not our responsibility if they want to immigrate! Legally or illegally. Nor are we responsible for the heartache and the tragic consequences of their own actions.

Just an Opinion.

Well my friend, it's already too late. I can drive through parts of LA and swear I was in Mexico.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by oconnection

 

Abstinence does not work in most cases? Hows that work?

LOL

Abstinence as an idea does not work because most in time will break down and have sex. I will edit that so it's more clear.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Many here have had enough already. "Illegal or legal" NO MORE.

We don't want to be Mexico II or China II or Europe II or Africa II etc. Enough already with the immigrant. We have enough damned people as it is now. It's not our responsibility if they want to immigrate! Legally or illegally. Nor are we responsible for the heartache and the tragic consequences of their own actions.

Sometimes the reality of the siutation isn't as simple as black and white. We've already declared it illegal. If we have a bunch of illegal immigrants I'm pretty damn sure the law isn't working.

Maybe just simply making something against the law isn't always the best way of solving a problem. What follows? Military action against poor families strugging to survive and make a better life for themselves, or establishing better enforcement against businesses who illegally make borders disappear and encourage alien occupancy? Maybe we should be focusing the illegal immigration war on a different front.

[edit on 13-2-2010 by Flushot]

Originally posted by oconnection
Well my friend, it's already too late. I can drive through parts of LA and swear I was in Mexico.

That's my point enough already.

By you Singling out the Mexicans to make a point actually supports mine. We have little Korea, little Saigon Little Tokyo etc in LA not to mention Chinatown with it's vast neighboring population in the Suburbs. etc.

The point I'm trying to make isn't to single out any one race, just stop all the immigration. The US has had it's doors open pretty much now for over 100 years or more. Enough is enough.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Yadda Yadda Blah Blah Blah.

As much as I personally respect and love that saying. It never was an official policy.

The lower 48 is roughly the same Size of mainland China with their 1.6 billion people. Do we seriously need to go from our 305 million to over a Billion before we say we've had enough?

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by oconnection
Well my friend, it's already too late. I can drive through parts of LA and swear I was in Mexico.

That's my point enough already.

By you Singling out the Mexicans to make a point actually supports mine. We have little Korea, little Saigon Little Tokyo etc in LA not to mention Chinatown with it's vast neighboring population in the Suburbs. etc.

The point I'm trying to make isn't to single out any one race, just stop all the immigration. The US has had it's doors open pretty much now for over 100 years or more. Enough is enough.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Yadda Yadda Blah Blah Blah.

As much as I personally respect and love that saying. It never was an official policy.

The lower 48 is roughly the same Size of mainland China with their 1.6 billion people. Do we seriously need to go from our 305 million to over a Billion before we say we've had enough?

Interesting how you assume I support your point of view. The point I was actually trying to make is immigration is here, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

So what do we do as a country? Do we kick out all the illegals, send them back to Mexico? Who will take care of their kids? Answer that one for me if you could because if a child is born in the United States and their parents are undocumented, their kids are legal citizens.


[edit on 13-2-2010 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection

Interesting how you assume I support what your point of view. The point I was actually trying to make is immigration is here, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

I didn't assume anything. You didn't realize the point you made supported mine whether you knew it or not. Of course "Immigration is here" Just look around the US. We have every single Race, Religion, color and creed on the planet. [For the Most part living in peace] together. That's the part I love about the US. We have become some sort of Giant Noah's ark for humans.

But from my perspective. Being Born and Raised in Los Angeles and after having traveled the lower 48 states numerous times for a living. [Job Related] I've seen many parts of this country that many City and Urban dwellers only read about or see in Movies and or on TV.


We have tons of locations that are so culturally diverse. Not just the "Mexican in LA "

[edit on 13-2-2010 by SLAYER69]