WSJ: "Prepare for an apocalyptic anarchy ending Wall Street's toxic capitalism"

reply to post by aristocrat2


Sorry, but you are the one who is completely naive.

the stock market is not the U.S. government, and the debt of the U.S. government in comparison to GDP is still pretty good.

The stock market can collapse, and it will not effect the U.S. government at all. Just like the collapse of the stock market in the Great Depression did no bankrupt the U.S. government.

Everyone is talking about Greece. but it is Japan whose government debt it the absolutely worst right now. Hard to believe about Japan Inc, but it is true.

The people who would lose the most if our stock market were to collapse would be the super rich.

I honestly believe that this worldwide economy crash was set up including 9/11 maybe being an extra "bonus" from the "terrorist" attack. But thats another thread idea.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by jtma508

Oh, and after we win, we eat our lawyers.

As long as you don't forget the Chianti and Fava Beans.

All us normal people can truly do is ride out the storm and pray. Being a glass is half full person, I think that article is not literal in the sense some here might take it. Mad Max need not tune up his vehicles quite yet. It is a bit premature to migrate to the wasteland with a pushcart full of weapons and explosives.

An advantage of 299 to 1 in an apocalyptic scenario makes the Fat Cat's the Underdogs. When money ceases to matter, we have the advantage in a huge way. They know that. The first time they run out of toilet paper or their garden needs weeding they will self destruct.

When push comes to shove, the skills of the common man far outweigh the financial prowess of the elite. A man with a pick and shovel will be worth a hundred Bankers in fact. We who know how to bait a hook or field dress wild game will rule. Be very afraid my Banker friends.

We can survive without you. It is you that needs us.

Wait, wait, wait - you're telling me that Atlas Shrugged wouldn't have really worked that way? That the 99% who have almost nothing DON'T need the 1% with everything to tell them what to do so they don't drown in their own drool. Wow you are blowing my mind man. I always thought the dollar sign wreathed in a heavenly glow of selfishness would result in an egalitarian utopia for all.

[edit on 11-2-2010 by wanderingwaldo]

reply to post by wanderingwaldo


Wealth is a form of power in society, but that power has gravity, it draws a great many people towards the holders of wealth, so that their very wealth imprisons them.

There is this balance ratio between power and freedom. Power requires a person to obligate their time in order to maintain that power, but power also enables a person to accomplish many things. The more obligations, the more responsibilities you take on, the less freedom you have.

It is my observation that the most talented people I have known don't seek out more wealth than they need.

well, the answer all depends on the Soverign Debt of Greece, Spain, Portugal, UK, USA, the governments decided to inflate their way into oblivion. but this was all pre-meditated and planned. its like a reset switch the elite use when things get out of hand. the childs game - Musical Chairs, do you recall... when the music stops you better find a chair.
well, thats the game we are playing. if you notice everytime the music changes you had better exit the markets or go short... and the charts are clear as day ... right down to the bird symbol ... and we are on the right side of that if you are looking at the S&P500 ... we may go down to 666 area but that will come later on in say sept - oct. ... so, what do suppose would happen if our dollar got twice as strong and allowed Uncle Sam to place leveraged bets 100% return derivative and then make it happen and collect... that would be like 1 billion to 1 leverage... and they can do that anytime they want too... we are just at the end of a 50 year destructive phase - were they intentionally sabatoge the systems so the can bring in a more oppressive punative government into power. and freedom will die under thunderous applause.
well, any way brussels and germany are running like 200% of GDP and will implode and they control the EURO... so fleeing into the dollar may be hazardous to your countries existance unless you are china and then you get to buy Europe on the cheap using dollars.... and China and USA divide up the globe. in a 50 - 50 split. excellent plan dont you think...?

Originally posted by aristocrat2
The salvation of Greece.

Ironically, the strong trade union movement and presence of extreme left in the country might actually save Greece from going under.

If some form of General Strike is called, then the Government of Greece will not have to pay the strikers' salaries nor provide those public services whilst it is on. The massive cost saving just might allow them to pull back from the brink.

Doubt it.

Link in Greek: edydimosiou.blogspot.com...
Google translation: Link

The following is edited for better translation:

suddenly discovered on the floor of the Greek parliament that the government of PASOK scattered 800 euro paychecks at people who is said-and note the terms used by the Ministry of Finance - ... ...
"skinites" people-living-in-makeshift-tents
or
"dendrites" people-living-in-trees!
Foreign skinites and dendrites!
. According to what we in parliament SPECIFIED there twenty-two thousand such cases (sic!).
To better understand the theater of the absurd in which viewers are victims, the notice of the Ministry of Finance tabled the minutes of the House (as example) - concerned the Albanian illegal immigrant Aydin Murat who lives at the address .... New National Road Patras-Pyrgos, number zero, (skinitis) parentheses.

Btw it is a leftist government. (it translates to something like) Panhellenic Socialist Movement.
First thing they do after elections is spreading money to 20.000 alleged illegal immigrant people with no address or any papers to identify them or even make sure they really exist. All that under the pretense of some supposed public aid.

[edit on 11-2-2010 by spacebot]

Not so good news from Europe, after Germany and France said they were going to help Greece earlier today, I get this from Guardian.co.uk . Check this out dated 2/12/10 (update)

Angela Merkel dashes Greek hopes

Again, those of you that do not believe this is serious, you need to only look back to the last 3 business days where the market dropped to under 10,000. Because of worries of Greek debt.

[edit on 11-2-2010 by Quetzalcoatl12]

reply to post by Quetzalcoatl12


I don't really think this market movement is too determinant on Greek moves.

If anything it is toying with the dollar, but like today, the market moved first, then the dollar moved, so equities are still pretty in control of their own destiny.

You can expect them to make this linger as long as possible while we have some volatility in the near term, then I am guessing when EUR announces they will bail them out 100% guaranteed, then you will see an initial spike in the EUR USD (US MARKETS GO up) then let the EUR USD Crash and our markets shall continue to fall/linger/who knows
[edit on 11-2-2010 by GreenBicMan]

[edit on 11-2-2010 by GreenBicMan]

Originally posted by WatchRider

Originally posted by aristocrat2

Originally posted by beebs


Quote:

Yes there is an alternative. Out of the ashes of anarchy must come a Second American Revolution. .

This is a foul misleading of the people.

In 1641, Pym and his people overthrew the King of England.
- What did they want? A Parliamentary Government.
- What did they get? Two civil wars lasting 10 years, an extreme fundamentalist dictatorship and finally, the King's son back on the throne again.

In 1789, Danton and his people overthrew the King Of France.
- What did they want? A Republic based on equality, fraternity and civil rights.
- What dd they get? 12% of France sent to the guillotine and later Napoleon as an absolute monarch.

In 1917, Kerenssky and his people overthrew the Tsar.
- What did they want? A new Russia, just like America, but better.
- What did they get? A Communist coup-d'etat by Lenin.

In 1918, Frederich Ebert and his people overhhrew the Kaiser of Germany.
- What did they want? A new peaceful Germany, based on the US Constitution and on socialism.
- What did they get? Humiliation by the allies, a banana republic constantly fighting off revolution, street battles and finally Hitler, another world war and the gas chambers of Auschwitz.

In 1973, Mohammed Daoud Khan overthrew the King of Afghanistan.
- What did they want? A fast track GDP growth to move the country out of poverty.
- What did they get? A communist takeover, an Islamicist extremist takeover, 37 years of war, mass cancer from depleted uranium and a place as one of the world's poorest, most bombed and most corrupt countries in the world.

In 1979, Bakhtiar and his people overthrew the Shah of Iran.
- What did they want? A Western style democracy.
- What did they get? Ayotollah Khomeni and a Islamicist Extremist Government.

Once a ruler/ruling elite is overthrown a revolution can go ABSOLUTELY ANYWHERE.

Notice how you are convientiently missing out the American Revolution in your smug accessments.

That revolution certainly DID get the USA somewhere!

Sure it got America somewhere, as in...

-$12,000,000,000,000 in debt
- The colonies run by the banks and the Mafia
- A place where rendition is considered AOK
- A rough state that biombs innocent folk to bits for stuff all.

Ever considered how good it might have been if Washington had failed? Living on a a little farm in peace just as if you were on a Menonite community and New York a happy little place with quaint wooden buildings and people going for their vacations to the neighbouring country of the Republic Of Iroquois?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by aristocrat2

 

Sorry, but you are the one who is completely naive.

the stock market is not the U.S. government, and the debt of the U.S. government in comparison to GDP is still pretty good.

The stock market can collapse, and it will not effect the U.S. government at all. Just like the collapse of the stock market in the Great Depression did no bankrupt the U.S. government.

Everyone is talking about Greece. but it is Japan whose government debt it the absolutely worst right now. Hard to believe about Japan Inc, but it is true.

The people who would lose the most if our stock market were to collapse would be the super rich.

Clearly you are either very illiterate or very ignorant.

My central point is the US Government being unable to fund service its interest , triggering a stock market collapse.

Quite apart form this, if the stock market did cave in, without a real economy to pay taxes and investors unbankrupt to buy US T-Bills and Bonds, the ability of the US to fund itself or its interest would have gone too.

This is nothing a world war can't fix.

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
This is nothing a world war can't fix.

Then we will just be overrun with roaches. But, let's look at this philosophically. Maybe our crazy wars and rapid extinction will facilitate the evolution of the cockroach. Perhaps this was the plan all along.

I say wait till tomorrow. It will be clearer. I still think Greece is going to get it's banker on a white horse riding in to save the day. Will it save the system permanently? Hell no, but it might work this week.

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl12
Not so good news from Europe, after Germany and France said they were going to help Greece earlier today, I get this from Guardian.co.uk . Check this out dated 2/12/10 (update)

Angela Merkel dashes Greek hopes

Again, those of you that do not believe this is serious, you need to only look back to the last 3 business days where the market dropped to under 10,000. Because of worries of Greek debt.

[edit on 11-2-2010 by Quetzalcoatl12]

Indeed.

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, mounted stiff resistance tonight to any swift bailout of Greece, as a rift opened up between European capitals over how best to tackle the risks posed to the euro. Despite a show of Franco-German unity on the crisis and the first statement from EU leaders pledging to safeguard the currency's stability, hopes on the markets of a German-led rescue plan to shore up Greece's critical public finances were dashed by Merkel,

Now the French are OK for the deal, at least It was reported in the local news, also a rumor circulated around time of afternoon but I believe before Merkel's verdict (don't know if is true or not) that French were trying to force a deal with Greece buying weapons from them in the near future in order for them to agree to help. If this is true it would explain Merkel's hard line stance despite the general good climate before this. Maybe the Germans might caught wind of the deal and now wanting in with their own weapons as well.
If there is any truth to all of this then screw European Union. Nothing but a bunch of hypocrites and blood leeches.
People are still trying to get WWII reparations from Germany over the Nazi occupation and Berlin denying court verdicts.
www.helleniccomserve.com...

Like making friends with a pack of wolves I would say. It's always the weak that pay the price.

[edit on 11-2-2010 by spacebot]

reply to post by aristocrat2




You are trying to claim monarchy is superior to a democratic form of government, in spite of all historical evidence to the contrary. You might be the biggest idiot I have encountered in my entire history of posting on forum boards.

What separates the first world nations from the failed states of the third world is that the first world nations went through the pains of developing working democratic style governments, while the third world nations remain in essence feudal states controlled by aristocracies.

Once again, when you look at U.S. government debt, in proportion to our GNP, we are fine, not anywhere near our historic level.

Once again, look up Japan's current debt ratio to GNP. They are about to top the greatest debt to income level in all of history.

These are the facts that prove you wrong.

Obviously this point is so far over your head, your numb brain is incapable of seeing it.

Bring it on I'm ready for it to collapse. I'm watching the market in anticipation gitty with glee. And when the whole thing comes crashing down and the rich end up where I'm at. I'll be waiting with my pitch fork stoking the flames .

I think the men and women, calling the financial shots that died in 9/11 RIP, are missed deeply in 2007-2010. I still think all of this goes all the way back to 9/11. Whatever you want to think conspiracy or State sponsored terrorism did it, they did a number on everything we know, and it seems to be one of the most strategic attacks ever made. It also does not seem to be done yet. We have troops in Iraq, and afganistan, just a whole differant world now, logic tells us nothing last's for ever girls and boys..

But I will not goto the extreme as my bud posting above me would thou. I am not giving up yet.

[edit on 11-2-2010 by Bicent76]

reply to post by wantsome


Somehow I'm guessing it won't exactly play out like that, but I like that you are planning for that scenario. Best advice would be to play their game and make money as well and not have to sit and wait for a scenario that has a .02% probability of happening.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


I see what your saying and I agree with you about Greece, in the fact they won't effect us directly by themselves. However what I do fear is IF Greece does default on their debt, then there might very well be a domino effect, sort of like what happened in 2008. Since Greece isn't the only country that's in trouble. Portugal, Ireland, Italy (Greece) and Spain, which these failing countries are sort of like the rings of a shock-wave from an explosion or the next domino to fall, this is the problem.

In late 2008, it was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, followed by Lehman Brothers, followed by others that collapsed and other institutions on the brink of collapse, that developed the worst recession ever and the fall of those institutions effected the entire world. Obviously corruption led to their fall. In this case you are now talking about countries!! and all of them are part of the EU whom have tremendous holdings in the world market. The effect to us (The United States) and the world would be great. Will it be as great as the OP's article, I wouldn't be surprised!

reply to post by Quetzalcoatl12


That article was written so people link to it and as you know if it bleeds it leads, right?

The reality is that they have already said they are bailing them out and they will not release details till next week. This information was given out earlier today (yesterday) morning at about 1030 AM EST.

Also, as a few have already stated, think about what these countries output. Not much. German Preliminary GDP comes out at 2:00AM EST (1 hour) and that should give us some insight to see what position Germany is in. They of course are on the short list of the bilateral bail-out team.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by GreenBicMan


What Germany is demanding is that Greece cut their budget a great deal before any financial aid will be provided.

If Greece is the jumping point for illegal immigrants to the EU, and they are handing out generous welfare payments to these illegals, then the entire EU would be smart to demand they stop this.