Hemp--The Real Economy Stimulus Package & Green Jobs Producer

Hey ^10, I have to know, you would advocate growing hemp even if it was illegal and punishable to modify THC levels?

And do you honestly think other 'hemp' promoters would still be promoting it if there was not the marijuana aspect of it?

I have found for the most part hemp is just an excuse to push marijuana legislation and such. Everywhere you talk to them you find all kinds of facts applicable hundreds of years ago, backed by lazy stoners who would not actually act on this and PRODUCE hemp products. They simply want it for the recreation, ie. to make Across the Universe make sense.

In this thread you make it sound like hemp is illegal but its not, there is a grocery store in walking distance from my house that sells hemp cereal, I have seen in a store hemp clothes and they were like $100/article compared to a t-shirt made in say Pakistan for $5 of cotton... but to be fair I gues you mean it would be cheaper in the event that it is mass produced again. And downtown a alternates store that sells hemp seed oil. They are still used, produced, in store! But you know what? NO ONE BUYS THEM! Because they only really want hemp that has high THC levels. Which has always led me to suspect 99% of hemp promoters just use it as an excuse.

Not to say I think you are one of these, but you should think over it again. How much will it cost to switch to hemp paper? How much to 'renovate' the industry that DOES exist to start producing 100x more in a short amount of time? How strong is hemp compared to MODERN day materials? The last few boats I have been on were not hundreds of years old, they are made of metals, plastics, fibreglass, polyester, etc.

Soooo why dont you mention broccoli, or peanuts? Wasnt there an American who made 200 uses and inventions for peanuts? Plus, nuts are the #1 food we advised other than BUGS in the military... and broccoli, has more nutrients packed in than anything else. Imagine how we wouldnt even NEED hemp cures if everyone ate broccoli to be healthier (including me!) but instead we have people taking the easy way out every chance they get. Eat the potato chips because its faster, no work, tastes great.

The problem is that people are lazy and thats why there are health problems. We need to stop looking for instant cures for every problem and start attacking the ROOTS of problems. Then you will tell me well, doesnt that prove my point we should all grow hemp for the health benefits? But as I said it IS grown and used but barely because people dont actually WANT hemp... well most advocates... they just want THC, and as I also said, broccoli and nuts would be better for the health angle.

Gotta say I have yet to disagree with the SpartanKingLeonidas!

Originally posted by Nutter
Are you "against" water also?

Thats the most retarded propaganda Ive ever heard, seriously...
You know plastic forks, they're not so harmless, if you cut yourself enough times with them youll eventually break the skin and BLEED!

K really, Spartan said he is against THC not hemps industrial uses. Hemp like water is natural but high THC content like water poisoning is NOT natural. The weed you're (probably) smoking is not natural, the THC levels are magnified to a desired level which can be done either chemically or genetically in labs. If the government started regulating natural stuff the THC would not be the same and people would STILL be pissed, so it is a no-win situation.

Originally posted by Ridhya
And do you honestly think other 'hemp' promoters would still be promoting it if there was not the marijuana aspect of it?

Yes. I know I will and do.

Everywhere you talk to them you find all kinds of facts applicable hundreds of years ago,

Those facts are still applicable to this day.

backed by lazy stoners who would not actually act on this and PRODUCE hemp products.

Hmm....I wonder if we are biased?

In this thread you make it sound like hemp is illegal but its not,

It is illegal to grow hemp in this country, but not to import and use hemp products. That is why hemp products are more expensive. The hemp has to be imported.

Soooo why dont you mention broccoli, or peanuts?

Because broccoli and peanuts are legal to grow.

Originally posted by Nutter
Are you "against" water also?

Thats the most retarded propaganda Ive ever heard, seriously...
You know plastic forks, they're not so harmless, if you cut yourself enough times with them youll eventually break the skin and BLEED!

Really not propoganda. Spartan said he was against anything mind altering even if it had other uses.

Water is a mind altering substance whether you want to believe it or not.

And BTW Spartan.....

Since you said you will eat nutmeg when it is cooked in something, that makes you a hypocrite because it is a mind altering substance but has other uses (which you have confessed to use).

its interesting when people say no one uses hemp or no one wants it and pot heads dont produce anything using hemp

lol obviously statement from people who have no clue what they are talking about


ive seen plenty of of marijuana users who are very into producing things from hemp, its part of the culture

people say no one uses it and no one wants it, thats why i can go into any wegmans supermarket (a MAJOR east coast chain and one of the top companies in the country to work for) and buy any number of hemp made overpriced products


seems if theres prices like that on them, theres obviously someone buying it, wouldnt pay that price if they didnt want it or werent going to use it

the only people who cant see the benefits from things like hemp, are those who are stuck on marijuana being some horrible drug

at the rate things are happening with medical marijuana and its use in states health care, within the next 20 years ill bet the existence of the world that the old ideology surrounding hemp and marijuana will no longer exist in the united states of america

its only a matter of time and it will be very interesting to revisit these posts and see what the opposers have to say then

i believe between 13-15 states already acknowledge its medical benefits and other countries around the world already acknowledge hemps industrial benefits


once age old stigma dissipates and the propaganda has faded, there will be much higher demand and many more uses for hemp

we can debate it all we want, but all one has to do is open their eyes and see what is taking place


so please go ahead continue to think hemp has no benefits, marijuana has no benefits, we shall see over the next few years, only a few more states need to change their minds before this becomes a national thing, and that is only a matter of years, it would take something huge to reverse the trend, so please everyone on the opposing side, say as much as you possibly can so we can all laugh at it within the next 20 years

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Dramey]

reply to post by Nutter


just to put some input on the water situation even though its off topic

how does the body act when you deprive it of water?


right there situation solved, water alters things

had to edit it to put a

not exactly a good argument or intelligent one, but it gets to the point in a non serious way, i look at it like i said before, everything has its excess, even things we need, and there have been cases, like in dares or games etc, where people try to drink large amounts and get sick, people have had "mind altering" situations, along with other physical side effects

i guess my main point is that there is nothing, or at most VERY few things on this planet that dont have their healthy limits

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Dramey]


edited one last time to say, to put the everything has their limits into perspective, i believe chocolate and caffeine have a lower ld level then marijuana

meaning you would overdose on caffeine and chocolate quicker then you could with marijuana

so who eats chocolate?

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Dramey]

reply to post by Dramey


Food is also mind altering.

Deprive the body of food and one starts to hallucinate eventually before death. Hence "mind altering".

IMO it is on topic as one poster said that he will not and can not advocate hemp's uses because it is a mind altering substance. I just want to point out that most things in our world are mind altering.

To me, it's a silly argument to make and a silly way of closing your mind. No offense to Spartan. Maybe he will change his mind (pun intended) after this discussion.

Originally posted by Nutter
reply to post by Dramey

 

Food is also mind altering.

Deprive the body of food and one starts to hallucinate eventually before death. Hence "mind altering".

IMO it is on topic as one poster said that he will not and can not advocate hemp's uses because it is a mind altering substance. I just want to point out that most things in our world are mind altering.

To me, it's a silly argument to make and a silly way of closing your mind. No offense to Spartan. Maybe he will change his mind (pun intended) after this discussion.

very interesting, as you were posting about the food thing, i was editing my post to add the chocolate thing


you made a very good point on food

and i wasnt intending to make it sound like you were going off topic, i just kind of meant that the discussion was directed in this way to kind of subtract from the issue at hand as a defensive mechanism by those who dont think hemp/marijuana have any benefits

reply to post by Dramey


Ancient Shaman secret... I read the labels of the water I drink.

Or I drink well water, flouride is not in every water, yet.

Besides, flouride does not affect your mind, unless you allow it to.

And I'm posting on this thread in particular because the original poster invited me to post on it, and I post on threads all the time where I disagree with either the topic, and or the original poster.

This original poster, tothetenthpower, happens to be someone I respect.

No, I do not take aspirin, Advil, nor Tylenol, I prefer the headache.

reply to post by Ridhya


Feel free to disagree with me, that's your right, just be intelligent about it.

reply to post by Nutter


Actually, I said I eat nutmeg, when it is baked into foods.

This is no way to be miscontrued, or misinterpreted that I seek it out.

Nor is it to be miscontrued, nor misinterpreted that I use it because of alleged and or proven "mind-altering" aspects.

That does not make me a hypocrite, it makes me someone who does not seek out the "mind-altering" aspects of a naturally occuring substance, which may or may not have an adverse effect on someone when consumed in large quantities.

Seeing as nutmeg is legal, and that I do not consume it in large quantities, nor am I seeking it out as a "mind-altering" substance, IE : hallucinogenic, tripping, or lazy days, I am not seeking it out for any purpose other than as a means to consume food in order to sustain the ability to live.

Nutter, agree or disagree with me, I do not care, but if you honeslty think you're going to walk me into a corner as far as illicit uses of narcotics, hallucinogenic substances, or "mind-altering" products, you have another thing coming.

And for your information, water, when taken in is nothing more than water pissed out.

Before you reply, when and if I seek out a "mind-altering substance" with the illict, illegal, or legal use in order to "get high", or "trip", or in order to hallucinate, it will be the day I accept illegal power and become a puppet dictator from the C.I.A./D.E.A./ and F.B.I. and rule over a small country in South America.

In other words, if it is not legal, if it is illegal, or if it becomes legal, I will not seek it out as a means to lower my mentality to that of a beast that cannot beat a simplistic animal urge for sensual pleasures of illicit pharmaceuticals.

I was a Security Officer dealing with people I saw as pitiful who used nasty crap, and I see drug use, legal, or otherwise for the purposes of altering one's state of mind as nothing I will ever do because it is something I will never seek out willingly.

Whether "hemp" is legal or illegal, I could care less, and my replies thus far have been merely out of respect for the original poster and a modicum of dignity and respect I have for anyone else on ATS.

So, you can keep on with your crap, Nutter, if you want, about this little incessant nonsense about hypocrisy of usage, or whatever other crap you can think up, and I'm going to keep coming back, more intelligent, more respectful, and more dignified in a manner I am sure you are not used to when it comes to arguring, communicating, and or debating someone.

Am I saying you're not intelligent?

No.

Am I saying you're not respectful?

No.

Am I saying you're not dignified?

No.

I am however stating you are wasting your time completely and utterly in thinking anything you state is going to give me anything other than an Execedrin sized headache, which will not make me take an aspirin, nor Tylenol.

So, the choice is yours, keep up the childish, narcissitic nonsense, or don't.

The choice is up to you.

I could care less.

I do not care to take illict, illegal, nor even legally "mind-altering" substances.

If however I consume something, without my knowledge, or even with my knowledge, because it is a part of a recipe, in order to alter the taste, or it is a part of a recipe to change the subtle nuance of another ingredient, so be it.

This does not make me a hypocrite, it makes me human, and someone who is not willing to argue the nonsensical idiocy of "mind-altering substances" with the baker of said products, or the corporation who sells it.

So, whatever your game is, if you think I am judging you because you may or may not have imbibed upon "mind-altering" substances, or your beliefs are different than mine, rest assured I could care less enough about you to judge you because prior to posting in this particular thread I never knew you.

And long after I quit posting in this thread, I will not know you.

This does not, nor should it be misinterpreted as myself sitting in judgement of you.

It is not.

It is merely me explaining to you, so you can rest easy, because honestly, I could care less.

Seriously, Nutter, get over yourself, you're almost as bad as my ex-girlfriend.

Almost.

If I choose not to use, that's my choice, not yours.

[edit on 8-2-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by Dramey

 

Ancient Shaman secret... I read the labels of the water I drink.

Or I drink well water, flouride is not in every water, yet.

Besides, flouride does not affect your mind, unless you allow it to.

And I'm posting on this thread in particular because the original poster invited me to post on it, and I post on threads all the time where I disagree with either the topic, and or the original poster.

This original poster, tothetenthpower, happens to be someone I respect.

No, I do not take aspirin, Advil, nor Tylenol, I prefer the headache.

lol i always wanted to train with the shamans, the reason i asked though was because i have heard there are still a few places in the usa that dont fluoridate so i was curious if you had supplied water or if it was well or bottled water, as i am currently looking into no longer using fluoridated water, just dont have an economically feasible way of doing so yet


and for the record i do respect many of your posts here at ats, i just was a bit surprised at what appeared to be a close minded idea that you may posses, but to each their own, we all have our own reasons for believing what we believe


i sure do envy ya for being able to avoid the fluoride


edited to say i also didnt mean to say you shouldnt be posting here in any way, you didnt need to justify it that you were invited, however i am glad you were, an opposing view is always a good thing for a debate, however it is always in the topic best interest for all parties to keep a relatively open mind

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Dramey]

reply to post by Nutter

Well no actually, Im one of the few people whos not biased. I have seen and been on both sides of drug use, and after both I see that there is more harm than good.

It is illegal to grow hemp in this country, but not to import and use hemp products. That is why hemp products are more expensive. The hemp has to be imported.

And I did not know it was illegal there so hence why I asked.

Originally posted by Dramey
seems if theres prices like that on them, theres obviously someone buying it, wouldnt pay that price if they didnt want it or werent going to use it

Thats wholly untrue, supply and demand. For example China sells a ton for cheap, whereas Rollex sells few for a lot.

I dont get where you guys read me saying hemp has no benefits because it certainly wasnt here, I only illustrated there are better alternatives now ie. what I said about boat materials.

Food is also mind altering.

By your example you did not prove your statement. LACK of food may be hallucinogenic. I guess Spartan is a hypocrite when he is not eating.


reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Re-read I said YET to disagree

reply to post by Dramey


Glad you liked my replies.

I never thought you said I wasn't allowed and I was just replying.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by Ridhya
reply to post by Nutter

 

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Re-read I said YET to disagree

I read that and just stated that I have zero problem with anyone disagreeing.

If you disagree, great, just do it intelligently.

Glad you agree or disagree, because I see you're intelligent about it.

Waiting to see if Nuter will be because I noticed he thinks he's going to "change my mind".

My ex-girlfriend said it would take a stick of dynamite up my backside to get me to change my mind, and I thanked her for the compliment, she just stared blankly.

And I noticed what we have in common with our position is we both have experience in dealing with users, security and task force. I would bet that promoters of drugs and drug use would not and probably only see the one side the good side, which is the standard effect it has without actually seeing the detrimental effects and ripple effects that occur after their part in it.

I guarantee after seeing the underbelly and addicts and crime and dependents that they would be more inclined to change THEIR mind, not you... will get a stick of dynamite ready just in case though

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


For someone who "doesn't care". He sure does post lengthy posts about the subject he "doesn't care" about. Eh?

Also, I said no offense to you. But, you are being hypocritical when you say you have a problem with hemp because of its mind altering abilities (even though there are many non mind altering substances that can be used from hemp) while in the same breath saying you will eat something that is cooked into food that also has a mind altering property.

Weasle out of it all you want.

I wonder if you needed surgery, would you opt out of anesthesia? I seriously doubt it.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
My ex-girlfriend said it would take a stick of dynamite up my backside to get me to change my mind, and I thanked her for the compliment, she just stared blankly.

And this is something to be "proud" of? A super closed mind?

I know I won't be having anymore conversation with such a person whos mind is so closed, they can't even see light.

Originally posted by Ridhya
I guarantee after seeing the underbelly and addicts and crime and dependents that they would be more inclined to change THEIR mind, not you... will get a stick of dynamite ready just in case though

Please point out the underbelly of the addicts, crime and dependants of non-thc hemp industrial use.

That IS what this thread is about correct?

Please take your "hemp is a drug" propaganda elsewhere. Thank you.

Originally posted by Nutter
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

For someone who "doesn't care". He sure does post lengthy posts about the subject he "doesn't care" about. Eh?

Also, I said no offense to you. But, you are being hypocritical when you say you have a problem with hemp because of its mind altering abilities (even though there are many non mind altering substances that can be used from hemp) while in the same breath saying you will eat something that is cooked into food that also has a mind altering property.

Weasle out of it all you want.

I wonder if you needed surgery, would you opt out of anesthesia? I seriously doubt it.

Actually, you were nitpicking what I said because you see someone who chooses to stand their ground.

I've stated my thoughts quite clearly, your failure to adequately debate, and instead call someone a hypocrite, shows your lack of debating ability, I've stated my point.

I cannot help it if you cannot read or comprehend when logic is used.

Like a typical person who has no valid stance you have done nothing but attack me, instead of actually debating your stance, which makes you nothing to me.

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
My ex-girlfriend said it would take a stick of dynamite up my backside to get me to change my mind, and I thanked her for the compliment, she just stared blankly.

And this is something to be "proud" of? A super closed mind?

I know I won't be having anymore conversation with such a person whos mind is so closed, they can't even see light.

It is something to be proud of because she was doing nothing more than being manipulative.

My accepting it as a compliment was my way of telling her to shut the Hell up.

I was tired of arguing with her for hours on a topic where I clearly stated my opinion.

It did the trick because she had no argument for someone taking it as a compliment.

She has this stupid opinion that if someone does not have a valid stance in her eyes, they are wrong.

In other words, she's a lot like you, cannot actually let someone have their stance, when logic is used.

So, Nutter, thank you for assisting me in "Deny'ing Ignorance".

You be sure and let me know when nutmeg is illegal because I'll put it on my list.

I stated my opinion to you, Nutter, if you do not like it, tough, if you think I'm a hypocrite, tough.

Thinking something does not mean you're right it just means you had a thought.

Bye-bye, bye-bye sweetcheeks, bye-bye.

[edit on 8-2-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Alright kids, let's slow down here.

I did not open this thread in order for a few members, to bash their heads against the wall discussing terms and straw man arguments.

I'd prefer we'd stick to the topic.

In response to the first post on the page, I don't think that HEMP is used as a gateway for Marijuana users and yes I would advocate for it either way, regardless of if THC existed in the plant or not.

It's just a good idea economically.

~Keeper

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Actually, you were nitpicking what I said because you see someone who chooses to stand their ground.

No. I was nitpicking because you said this:

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I do not support hemp, marijuana, or any type of mind-altering substances.

I do not need "mind-altering substances", ever, nor will I seek them out.

I am trying to educate you that you indeed need "mind-altering substances" to survive. If you want to call that nitpicking, then fine by me.

I've stated my thoughts quite clearly, your failure to adequately debate, and instead call someone a hypocrite, shows your lack of debating ability, I've stated my point.

I didn't just mearly call you a hypocrite. I pointed out how you are being hypocritical. Again, if you see this as a failure to adequately debate, I'd be willing to go into the debate forum with you.

I cannot help it if you cannot read or comprehend when logic is used.

I can not help it if you cannot comprehend that it is illogical to say that you will not endorse hemp because of its marijuana cousin but yet you will drink water, eat nutmeg, eat peanuts, eat banannas, drink caffeine (if you do), eat chocolate, etc.

Like a typical person who has no valid stance you have done nothing but attack me, instead of actually debating your stance, which makes you nothing to me.

I have done nothing of the kind. Please point out where I have "attacked" you. If you think calling you a hypocrite when you are being one is an "attack", then I really have to wonder how fragile your ego is.

In other words, she's a lot like you, cannot actually let someone have their stance, when logic is used.

I respect your stance. But, there is no logic being used IMO.

So, Nutter, thank you for assisting me in "Deny'ing Ignorance".

Actually, when you close your mind to the point where an ass full of TNT will not budge you, you are doing the exact opposite of "denying ignorance".

You be sure and let me know when nutmeg is illegal because I'll put it on my list.

You make sure and let me know when hemp products become illegal too.

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Nutter]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I don't think that HEMP is used as a gateway for Marijuana users and yes I would advocate for it either way,

Marijuana users don't need to advocate for hemp as a gateway for marijuana law change. They already have 15 states that allow the use of medical marijuana vs. zero states that allow the growth of hemp.

So, again, that is another silly argument that the uneducated make.

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Nutter]

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I don't think that HEMP is used as a gateway for Marijuana users and yes I would advocate for it either way,

Marijuana users don't need to advocate for hemp as a gateway for marijuana law change. They already have 15 states that allow the use of medical marijuana vs. zero states that allow the growth of hemp.

So, again, that is another silly argument that the unedumacated make.

Ok, you made a point, but stop calling people names man, like really.

You destroy credibility when your unable to form a post without calling out somebody for their views and opinions based on their current environment.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Edited my post. But, I was not calling any one person/poster a name.

Shall I use "the uneducated masses" instead?