Hemp--The Real Economy Stimulus Package & Green Jobs Producer

Alright ATS, I had created at thread months ago when we tried out the Narcotics board for a whole 4 days and then it got thrown out because of "members" not being able to keep to the rules. That however, is all in the past.

So here's my thread, somewhat re-hashed and with added value.

Hemp--The Real Economy Stimulus Package & Green Jobs Producer

Now the debate has been raging for years as to what Hemp and it's transgendered counter part (pardon the laughter), Marijuana can do for a nation and for it's people.

First, a little history about Hemp and it's uses in early human culture.

Hemp has been grown for millennia in Asia and the Middle East for its fibre. Commercial production of hemp in the West took off in the eighteenth century, but was grown in the sixteenth century in eastern England.[44] Due to colonial and naval expansion of the era, economies needed large quantities of hemp for rope and oakum.

From Wiki

Production of hemp originated in Central Asia thousands of years ago. Hemp has a long history of being used as a food grain, and as a source of fibre, such as clothing, rope and netting as well as for spiritual, medical, nutritional and industrial purposes.

Hemp is one of the oldest and most versatile crops in the world. Since Ancient History, hemp seeds, stalks and flowers have been used for nutritious, medical, spiritual and industrial purposes. The seed oil is rich in essential fatty acids (including gamma linoleic acid (GLA), a very rare nutrient, also found in mother's milk) and vitamin E. The fibres from the stalks boast an unusually high tensile strength, leading to incredibly high-quality, durable and wearable clothing items. Hemp fibre is one of the softest and most durable fibres produced by any natural product.

Hemp was first cultivated by the Chinese in the 2nd century B.C. At that time, the fibres where used for paper and textile and the seeds for food and in medicines. The Chinese played a significant role improving the growth, harvesting and processing techniques of hemp.

Besides its propagation in China, the cultivation and use of hemp has, since the beginnings of recorded history, also been documented by many other great civilizations, including: India, Sumeria, Babylonia, Persia, Egypt, and other nations of the Near East; and the Aztec and Mayan civilizations of South America; as well as by native cultures in North America and Europe. Indeed, it might be said that over these thousands of years, hemp has always followed humankind throughout the world, or vice versa.

In the 15th century hemp was introduced in the American colonies. After that time much of the paper and clothing in colonial America was made from hemp, with the textiles being recycled into “rag paper”, known to this day as one of the strongest and most long-lasting papers in the world. During colonial hemp shortages it was a punishable offence for landowners (sometimes by death) for refusing to grow hemp.

Most of the seagoing nations would never have been as successful without the strong fibres with which to craft 90% of sails, plus ropes, rigging, and even the ‘oakum’ that sealed cracks in the boats watertight. In basic terms, if it was not made of wood on a ship, it was made of hemp. Hemp rope and sails were incredibly strong and resisted the salt water damage and mould that were among the common wear and tear experienced in the nautical industry.

Even flags, uniforms and fishing nets were fashioned from the fibre, and all these were above decks. Below, ships’ logs, maps, charts and bibles were printed on hemp paper as it was up to 100 times stronger than traditional papyrus preparations, and many of the lamps that lighted the dark evenings were dependent on hemp oil fuel. In fact, prior to 1883 between 75% and 90% of everything made of or printed on paper was from hemp, and before petrochemical companies most paints, oils, varnishes, and even glues and adhesives were manufactured from hemp.

In the 18th century, as a result of upcoming slavery, cotton became available everywhere and by the 20th century, cotton banned hemp in the textile industry and wood replaced hemp in the making of paper. Hemp was totally banned from the western market. It became a too big concurrent for wood industry.

Source

The last line really shows what the reason behind the prohibition of this wonderous product. Being extremely cheap to produce and extremely easy to manufacturer with, it would have put various industries including oil, textile and wood virtually out of business.

I now want to specifically look at the use of Hemp in the United States during it's creation and there after.

In 1619, because hemp was such an important resource, it was illegal not to grow hemp in Jamestown, Virginia. Massachusetts and Connecticut had similar laws. During the 1700's, subsidies and bounties were granted in Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, North & South Carolina, and the New England states to encourage hemp cultivation and the manufacturing of cordage and canvas. Unfortunately, these actions failed to establish a permanent hemp industry in any of these states.

The dominance of the cotton industry is often cited as a factor in the demise of the hemp industry. In 1829, the Navy started making its sailcloth out of cotton. Ironically, though, 15 pounds of hemp were needed to properly wrap each 500 pound bale of cotton. Unfortunately demand disappeared as cheaper jute and metal hoops became commonplace for wrapping cotton bales. Several botanical prints of the era recognize the importance of hemp and cotton.

Source

More Valuable Than Cash

The reason hemp was more valuable than cash was simple. Paper money had no value in the colonies. A thousand dollars in Virginia currency, for example, was only worth one dollar in silver. Because of the lack of faith in paper money, the American economy operated on the barter system. And because of hemp's comparative uniformity, its comparative freedom from deterioration, the universal and steady demand for it, and its value, which exceeded all other raw produce", it "was recognized as the standard commodity for the first three or four decades" of the new American republic. Anything and everything could be bartered for hemp, from the local newspaper to the services of stud racehorses.

The American Revolution altered the lives of the American people in many ways. Hitherto, the colonists had relied heavily on imports from England, especially for clothing. Had it not been for organizations like the Daughters of Liberty, whose enthusiasm and efforts encouraged colonial women to make their own clothes, the disastrous winter of 1778 at Valley Forge might have been typical of life throughout the northern colonies.

In addition to making clothes and rope from hemp, the Americans had another equally important need for the precious fiber during the Revolution - paper. Although hemp was a basic ingredient in the invention of paper, other materials such as flax and cotton had long since replaced it. However, in 1716, a pamphlet was published on the art of papermaking entitled ‘Essays For the Month of December 1716”, to be continued monthly by a Society of Gentlemen for the benefit of the people of England, which urged papermakers to return once again to hemp.

Source

Now by the sources cited above, as well as many others found all over the internet including your local library, we can see the Hemp was instrumental in the founding of the Nation and has impacted American lives more so than any other product during those times.

So, let's look at how hemp could benefit today's American, in a climate where we overuse and waste product like never before.

Continued Below..

Nutrition Benefits
I am excluding the use of Medical Marijuana from this threat as it is a highly controversial and un-specific topic. Some sources claim wonderous things that can come from the medicinal use of this plant, but we will leave that for another thread.

About 30–35% of the weight of hempseed is hempseed oil or hemp oil, an edible oil that contains about 80% essential fatty acids (EFAs); i.e., linoleic acid, omega-6 (LA, 55%), alpha-linolenic acid, omega-3 (ALA, 22%), in addition to gamma-linolenic acid, omega-6 (GLA, 1–4%) and stearidonic acid, omega-3 (SDA, 0–2%).

Hempseed also contains about 20% of a highly-digestible protein, where 1/3 is edestin and 2/3 are albumins. Its amino acid profile is close to "complete" when compared to more common sources of proteins such as meat, milk, eggs and soy.[20] The proportions of linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid in one tablespoon (15 ml) per day of hemp oil easily provides human daily requirements for EFAs.

Unlike flaxseed oil, hemp oil can be used continuously without developing a deficiency or other imbalance of EFAs.[21] This has been demonstrated in a clinical study, where the daily ingestion of flaxseed oil decreased the endogenous production of GLA.[21]

Hempseed is an adequate source of calcium and iron. Whole hempseeds are also a good source of phosphorus, magnesium, zinc, copper and manganese.

Hempseed contains no gluten and therefore would not trigger symptoms of celiac disease.

en.wikipedia.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Source

Building Materials & Composite Materials

In Europe and China, hemp fibers have been used in prototype quantities to strengthen concrete, and in other composite materials for many construction and manufacturing applications.[26] See Hempcrete.
A mixture of fiberglass, hemp fiber, kenaf, and flax has been used since 2002 to make composite panels for automobiles.[4][27] The choice of which bast fiber to use is primarily based on cost and availability.

*Same Source

Paper

There is a niche market for hemp paper. World hemp paper pulp production was believed to be around 120,000 tons per year in 1991 which was about 0.05% of the world's annual pulp production volume.[2] The cost of hemp pulp is approximately six times that of wood pulp,[2] mostly due to the small size and outdated equipment of the few hemp processing plants in the Western world and hemp is harvested once a year (during August) and needs to be stored to feed the mill the whole year through. This storage requires a lot of (mostly manual) handling of the bulky stalk bundles, which accounts for a high raw material cost.

Hemp pulp is bleached with hydrogen peroxide, which can also be used for wood pulp.

In 1916, US Department of Agriculture chief scientists Lyster H. Dewe, and Jason L. Merrill created paper made from hemp pulp, which they concluded was "favorable in comparison with those used with pulp wood."[28] [29]

The decision of the United States Congress to pass the 1937 Marihuana Tax Act was based in part on testimony derived from articles in newspapers owned by William Randolph Hearst, who, some authors[who?] stress, had significant financial interests in the forest industry, which manufactured his newsprint.

From 1880 to 1933 the hemp grown in the United States had declined from 15,000 to 1,200 acres (4.9 km2), and that the price of line hemp had dropped from $12.50 per pound in 1914 to $9.00 per pound in 1933.[30][31] In 1935, however, hemp would make a significant rebound.[31] Hearst began a campaign against hemp, and published stories in his newspapers associating hemp with marijuana[32] and attacking marijuana usage.[33]

Now, when speaking about paper, I use the historical stance, and it does state "niche" market, however, with the foresting industry being so prevelant and the destruction of the world's forests in general, it would only make sense to move to this medium.

Clothing
Most people can attest to the fac that hemp makes amazing clothing, both comfortable, durable and extremely cheap to produce and work with. This category would also include rope.

Water and soil purification

Hemp can be used as a "mop crop" to clear impurities out of wastewater, such as sewage effluent, excessive phosphorus from chicken litter, or other unwanted substances or chemicals. Eco-technologist Dr. Keith Bolton from Southern Cross University in Lismore, New South Wales, Australia, is a leading researcher in this area. Hemp is being used to clean contaminants at Chernobyl nuclear disaster site.[36]

Weed Control

Hemp, because of its height, dense foliage and its high planting density as a crop, is a very effective and long used method of killing tough weeds in farming (by minimizing the pool of weed seeds of the soil).[37] Using hemp this way can help farmers avoid the use of herbicides, to help gain organic certification and to gain the benefits of crop rotation per se.

This is especially good news for those who are worried about pesticides and herbicides as well as the GM crop which is becoming popular.

Fuel

Biofuels such as biodiesel and alcohol fuel can be made from the oils in hemp seeds and stalks, and the fermentation of the plant as a whole, respectively. Biodiesel produced from hemp is sometimes known as hempoline[38].

Really there is no need to elaborate on how effective and needed such a market is as we are trying to move away from fossil fuels and into clean energy.

This information as well as a multitude of other Hemp related information can be found en.wikipedia.org...
Now that we see how many products can be created from Hemp let's look at the economic advantage of being a hemp producing country.

** These are speculations based on years of observed history and some facts. What I state as truth will be credited with a source, otherwise it is to be seen as opinion. **

1) Thousands of job formed by the start of a Green revolution already in process. From mill workers, farmers, textile factories, oil producers, construction material fabrication, the list really goes on and on.

2) The reduction of imports in foreign oil and other things such as textiles and the like. This however would require a move towards greener living by the populace.

Now, I will touch briefly on the subject of Marijuana, however only in the sense that it would provide billions of dollars in Tax revenue to the local, state and federal governments every year. This is not something that requires a source, just common sense when you look at statistics of Marijuana users both medicinal and recreational.

So, this is my info ATS, I would much appreciate your thoughts and questions.

This is a great thread!
I'm glad to see that not everyone is misunderstand the amazing things we've lost out on or passed up on due to the lacking ability to Monopolize on Hemp and Marijuana.
Excellent info.
Nice historical information as well Thank you.
I had no idea of the Hempseed value to nutrition.

edit- go green grow hemp!

[edit on 6-2-2010 by spaz490]

Very thoughtful Post , a Star and Flag for such an informative description of a plant that could have a dramatic effect on the US Economy today if only the Federal Goverment would rethink it's position on it as just a Controled Dangerous Substance .

Question - What would it take to convince the Federal Goverment to at least think about legalizing the Hemp Plant that contains little or no THC, for Industrial uses ? That has always been a question I ask myself , and I could never find a good enough reason mentioned by any Goverment information on the matter .

[edit on 6-2-2010 by Zanti Misfit]

I agree with where I believe you were trying to go with this thread. Hemp was, and probably still is a very important of our living and banning it is only hurting us. Just as it was crucial for our survival and colonization before, it may prove to be our savior in our time of need.

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
Very thoughtful Post , a Star and Flag for such an informative description of a plant that could have a dramatic effect on the US Economy today if only the Federal Goverment would rethink it's position on it as just a Controled Dangerous Substance .

Question - What would it take to convince the Federal Goverment to at least think about legalizing the Hemp Plant that contains little or no THC, for Industrial uses ? That has always been a question I ask myself , and I could never find a good enough reason mentioned by any Goverment information on the matter .

[edit on 6-2-2010 by Zanti Misfit]

I don't think they could do that to begin with friend. It would require a form of modified Hemp plant as the only difference between hemp and Marijuana is the sex of the plant which is determined at the mid point of growth as far as I know.

~Keeper

reply to post by Estharik


Correct, that's exactly what I was going for.

Regardless of the benefits and the downfalls of this product, it is time to change things up, try something new, this would be cheap and effective.

~Keeper

Originally posted by spaz490
This is a great thread!
I'm glad to see that not everyone is misunderstand the amazing things we've lost out on or passed up on due to the lacking ability to Monopolize on Hemp and Marijuana.
Excellent info.
Nice historical information as well Thank you.
I had no idea of the Hempseed value to nutrition.

edit- go green grow hemp!

[edit on 6-2-2010 by spaz490]

Thanks fot he reply, I have to agree that the nutritional value is something I did not know about till a few days ago while researching. It really is a wonderous plant.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


While I respect you, tothetenthpower, and your thoughts as well as the well thought out thread, I do not now nor will I ever support drugs, hemp, or other by products in any way, shape, or form.

I know the history of drugs and America as I see it as a Prohibition II.

However, even if those drugs were legalized, I still would not use them.

I understand fully the criminalization of those drugs on the D.E.A.'s list as merely a means to make the black market value sky-rocket, the legal means of seizing drugs, money, cars, houses, etc ad naseum.

I have never cared one way or the other if marijuana was legal or not.

My stepfather threatened to break my neck at age ten if I ever brought drugs into his house.

His over-reaction was due to my innocently asking what the difference between legal and illegal drugs was because at age ten I knew no better.

It is not for me and I intentionally choose to isolate myself from those people who use drugs because of my own desire to not be around mind-altering substances.

My own thoughts on the War on Drugs is and always has been about the foreign and domestic policy of the duplicitous bastards in Washington D.C. and the C.I.A. funding criminal organizations overseas to filter those same said drugs into the United States in order to do nothing more than to give the D.E.A. a reason to exist.

I do not believe our Government should ever fund criminal organizations nor do I believe our Government should prop up a needless funding program to cycle drugs in and out of America in order to funnel money out of the Treasury.

Having said all of that and knowing extensively both the original Prohibition's history and this fallacy of the "War on Drugs", or Prohibition II, I find this particular nonsense as nothing more than predators preying on drug users.

I do not support the United States use of a law to bypass a law.

I do not support hemp, marijuana, or any type of mind-altering substances.

I do not need "mind-altering substances", ever, nor will I seek them out.

I know the foreign and domestic policy of our Government inside and out.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I don't think they could do that to begin with friend. It would require a form of modified Hemp plant as the only difference between hemp and Marijuana is the sex of the plant which is determined at the mid point of growth as far as I know.

Marijuana - Cannabis Sativa, Cannabis Indica, or hybrids of the two.

Wild Hemp - Cannabis Ruderalis.

Ulthough hemp is also classified as Sativa. Sativa literally meaning "to cultivate". When hemp is left to grow naturally though (without the selective breeding of humans) it degrades into a fibrous, very low THC containing plant.

It has very little to do with male and female plants.

It's like how we took wolves and made weener dogs out of them by selective breeding. But, we wouldn't consider the two the same would we?

That is why we need to educate people about what hemp vs. marijuana really is. They are not the same.

Other than the above correction, I think your posts have been spot on. Star and flag.

We need to get this plant (the low THC version) back into production IMO.

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


I believe the government was influenced by the Lumber Barons who wanted to make millions from wood products. Hemp production would have all but eliminated this business. Henry ford was a great believer in using hemp in his automobile production.

About Henry Ford’s Car
In the 1910s Henry Ford experimented with using agricultural materials in the manufacture of automobiles. Ford was partly motivated by a desire to find nonfood applications for agricultural surpluses, which existed then as they do now. He tried out many agricultural crops, including wheat.
Coil cases for the 1915 Model T Ford were made from a wheat gluten resin reinforced with asbestos fibbers. Eventually he focused on soybeans, and in the 1920s began promoting soybean products at every opportunity. He recruited Robert Boyer, a young chemist, to lead the research. In the following few years, uses were found for soy oil in automobile paints and enamels, in rubber substitutes, and in the production of glycerol for shock absorbers. Viscous solutions of soy protein were extruded and "set" in formaldehyde bath to form fibers for upholstery cloth. But Ford’s special interest was in converting soy meal into plastics. Soy meal is what is left after soy-beans are crushed or ground into flakes and the soy oil extracted with a hydrocarbon solvent. Soy meal is about 50 percent protein and 50 percent carbohydrate- mainly cellulose. The compositions of Ford’s soy plastics, and the methods of their processing, evolved over time and varied according to the application. In general the resin core was made of soy meal reacted with formaldehyde to produce cross-linked protein (reminiscent of casein plastics and animal horn), but for added strength and resistance to moisture, phenol or urea was cocondensed with the protein. The resulting resin was part phenol formaldehyde (or urea formaldehyde) and part cross-linked soy protein; the soy meal was not merely a filler.
The condensation took place in the presence of the cellulose and other carbohydrates that were part of the soy meal. Fillers, up to 50 to 60 percent, provided additional cellulose fibbers, from HEMP, wood flour or pulp from sprice or pine, cotton, flax, ramie even wheat. The final mix was about 70 percent cellulose and 10 to 20 percent soy meal. When additional strength became necessary, glass fiber was also used. Relatively low pressures and temperatures were used in the molding process. Soy meal plastics were used for a steadily increasing number of automobile parts- glove-box doors, gear-shift knobs, horn buttons, accelerator pedals, distributor heads, interior trim, steering wheels, dashboard panels, and eventually a prototype exterior rear-deck lid. Finally Ford gave the go-ahead to produce a completely prototype "plastic car," including an entire plastic body. The body consisted of fourteen plastic panels fixed to a welded tubular frame (instead of the customary parallel I-beam frame). The panels and frame each weighed about 250 pounds. The total weight of the automobile was 2,300 pounds, roughly two-thirds the weight of a steel model of comparable size.

www.chanvre-info.ch...

Not to mention pain relief, something I have been doing some research on, as i have chronic lower back pain.....

Researchers map spine's response to cannabis for pain relief when morphine fails

Where morphine fails, marijuana may work. That's the major finding of British research into the pain caused by nerve injuries, a pain known to be somewhat resistant to morphine and similar drugs that are the gold standard for treating just about any other kind of serious pain.

The researchers say they now have evidence that active components of cannabis, which is better known as marijuana, may offer hope.

"It's known that if you injure a nerve, the morphine receptors in the spinal cord disappear and that's probably why morphine isn't a very effective pain killer for such conditions as shingles, people who have had an amputation or perhaps if cancer has invaded the spinal cord," says Andrew Rice, a senior lecturer in pain research at London's Imperial College.

"But what we've shown is that the cannabinoid receptors do not disappear when you injure a nerve. So this could offer a therapeutic advantage over morphine for treating such pain, " he adds.

www.annieappleseedproject.org...

The use of Morphine, in it's incarnations such as Codeine, Hydrocodone, Lorcet, and Methadone over time for lower spine injuries and severe nerve damage loses it's use altogether in time. Oh, you still get the narcotic "high," but the pain relief just isn't there anymore, and I speak from experience. I used these drugs for 27 years. The funny thing is, the area I live in is over run by Hydrocodone addicts.

Marijuana does what Morphine never did for pain relief. I hope that the Medical Field soon comes to realize this.

reply to post by Nutter


Thanks for the reply and the info, for some reason I thought it worked the other way.


~Keeper

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Spartan,

Marijuana aside, if you like at the post above by Nutter:

Marijuana - Cannabis Sativa, Cannabis Indica, or hybrids of the two.

Wild Hemp - Cannabis Ruderalis.

Ulthough hemp is also classified as Sativa. Sativa literally meaning "to cultivate". When hemp is left to grow naturally though (without the selective breeding of humans) it degrades into a fibrous, very low THC containing plant.

We see that hemp the plant itself is not a drug and if somebody was to attempt to use it as a drug, they would find themselves very disappointed.

You enjoy playing devil's advocate when I reply to your thread, and I intend to do the same here .

I'd like your thoughts on how Hemp in particular, and it's uses listed above could help the economy tax wise and industry wise as I have stated? Can you truly say that it would not have a profound, positive effect, regardless of your personal views?

I certainly respect your stance on mind altering substances, I for a long time shared that view until people close to me, including my husband discovered the medical benefits to Marijuana during cancer treatments.

Not needing to take pharmaceuticals is a beautiful thing my friend, but that's for another thread.

So, to you Spartan, what is your economic stance on Hemp, good or bad for the country?

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Spartan,

Marijuana aside, if you like at the post above by Nutter:

Marijuana - Cannabis Sativa, Cannabis Indica, or hybrids of the two.

Wild Hemp - Cannabis Ruderalis.

Ulthough hemp is also classified as Sativa. Sativa literally meaning "to cultivate". When hemp is left to grow naturally though (without the selective breeding of humans) it degrades into a fibrous, very low THC containing plant.

We see that hemp the plant itself is not a drug and if somebody was to attempt to use it as a drug, they would find themselves very disappointed.

You enjoy playing devil's advocate when I reply to your thread, and I intend to do the same here

.

Well, while I know the history of marijuana and hemp, I also know Dow Chemicals history.

Dow Chemical Company went out of its way to get both outlawed in order to gain military contracts.

You might wonder what I am talking about and I'll tell you, well show you.

Chemical Warfare


Dow Chemical Company merely saw marijuana and hemp as competition.

If they did not control the "chemicals" no one else would.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Dow Chemical Company : Early History

The company originally sold only bleach and potassium bromide, achieving a bleach output of 72 tons a day in 1902.

Early in the company's existence, a group of British manufacturers attempted to drive Dow out of the bleach business by cutting prices.

Dow survived by cutting prices in response and, although losing about $90,000 in income, began to diversify its product line.

In 1905 German bromide producers drastically reduced their price of bromides in the US in an effort to prevent Dow from expanding its sales of bromides in Europe.

Dow was able to purchase German-made bromides in the US, ship them back to Europe and still sell them at a lower price than the German producers were charging.

Even in its early history, the company set a tradition of rapidly diversifying its product line.

Within twenty years, Dow had become a major producer of agricultural chemicals, elemental chlorine, phenol and other dyestuffs, and magnesium metal.

In the 1930s, Dow began production of plastic resins, which would grow to become one of the corporation's major businesses.

Its first plastic products were ethylcellulose, made in 1935, and polystyrene, made in 1937.

Hemp was one of those products being slotted at one time for parachute manufacture, because the usefulness of it as a rope was seen by many, but Dow Chemicals wanted plastics to be used, and did what they could in order to kill hemp.

I forget what book I read that in because it was over ten years ago and I did not own the book, but it was on Chemical Warfare and Vietnam, I remember that much.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I'd like your thoughts on how Hemp in particular, and it's uses listed above could help the economy tax wise and industry wise as I have stated? Can you truly say that it would not have a profound, positive effect, regardless of your personal views?

Irregardless of my thoughts on hemp being used as a means to stimulate the economy, the powers that be will never allow that to happen, they make far too much money seizing drugs, money, cars, homes, etc ad naseum from those they see as easy targets.

In other words I see them as preying upon the weaker people within the drug trade.

That has been a large part of my stance on why I will never support the "War on Drugs".

It has nothing to do with my thoughts on drugs nor desire to use them, because I have zero desire to have them near me, medicinal, or otherwise.

It has to do with the bully factor and that I am a bully buster, so I do not support bullies.

Do not mistake me not supporting the bullies as supporting those they bully either.

I am an equalizer, that is it, a bully buster, who equalizes the fight, nothing more.

If this were the roaring Twenties and during Prohibition during the idiotic war on alcohol, I would be the same, not supporting Law Enforcement during that which I see as having been one of the stupidest times of our country, nor would I support the felonious Gangsters.

I see both sides as just as stupid as the other side, because I know the conflict is truly about money, and the control of such, and has little to nothing to do with alcohol in the Twenties, just as much as the "War on Drugs" has little to nothing to do with the drugs, but about the money that can be made, hand over fist.

So, that being said, while I may see that hemp may actually benefit society, for the products like bricks, paper, rope, etc ad naseum, it does not mean I support it.

I support nothing other than the means to live free, or die trying.

Play Devil's Advocate with me and or my replies, all you want, you might find I play it right back, just be careful because I like you and I tend to tease those I like.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I certainly respect your stance on mind altering substances, I for a long time shared that view until people close to me, including my husband discovered the medical benefits to Marijuana during cancer treatments.

While I support your choice, you're Canadian, and the laws are different there.

Medicinal or otherwise, I will not allow mind-altering substances in my possession.

I have seen enough of them when as a pizza delivery driver I could have run a syndicate.

I look, smell, and act like a Cop, not that I am, but because it is in my blood.

Through training from a stepfather who was a Vietnam Marine, I know policy, procedure, and protocol.

I was as well indoctrinated into learning the Art of War, which I turned into the Art of Peace.

I do not even take aspirins for headaches, I prefer the pain, it lets me know I'm alive.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Not needing to take pharmaceuticals is a beautiful thing my friend, but that's for another thread.

So, to you Spartan, what is your economic stance on Hemp, good or bad for the country?

~Keeper

Personally, I can see the potential for hemp benefiting the economy, but this does not mean I would advocate it, because while I see the benefit, I will not fight for a losing battle nor losing army, and I see the Drug Enforcement Administration just as much a losing army as I see those advocating hemp.

I see the D.E.A. as nothing more than bullies, legal, or otherwise and I do not support bullies.

I have known about Air America and the Central Intelligence Agency smuggling drugs, guns, people in and out of Vietnam since I was six years old.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Air America

Air America was an American passenger and cargo airline established in 1946 and covertly owned and operated by the Central Intelligence Agency's (CIA) Special Activities Division from 1950 to 1976.

It supplied and supported covert operations in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War.

I have known about the Golden Triangle since I was a teenager.

I see if our country is going to benefit from drugs, it had better be legally, not through duplicitous foreign policy, where our own Government puts criminal organizations into power to get it smuggled in, and then gives the D.E.A. a reason to capture it.

If our economy is as fragile as that that we need this farce happening, we are not the number one country in the world, we are an over-inflated egotistical relic.

So, while I will not fight for hemp, neither will I fight against it.

I will however fight those who use the lies of power as reason to flout the law.

This means I am putting the "Order" on notice, those we as "conspiracy theorists" call by the colloquially harmless name, Skull and Bones.

Right and Left : A Control Mechanism of the Skull and Bones Society, the Order of Chaos

[edit on 7-2-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


There are many "mind altering" substances you probably use throughout your daily life and yet you don't even know it.

1. Water. In enough quantities can cause you to hallucinate. Even cause death.

2. Nugmeg in the right quantities will cause you to hallucinate for 3 days straight.

Two things off the top of my head that we use every day but have the potential to be "mind altering".

Are you "against" water also?

Disclaimer: I am not advocating drinking lots of water or eating nutmeg to "trip". Kids....do not try this. It isn't fun at all.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by Nutter]

reply to post by tothetenthpower


It seems quite silly that the DEA can't tell the damn difference between hemp and marijuana. I saw a documentary on PBS not too long ago about members of the Lakota Tribe trying to grow hemp as a cash crop. They had buyers (overseas) and everything, but year after year, the DEA would show up just before harvest time and destroy the entire crop. So much for Native American Sovereignty on tribal lands...

Anyway, this has my complete backing. The money wasted by the Fed to keep this illegal is mindnumbing, especially in this day and age... Growing hemp: Illegal Creating a financial product that is based on BS, then crying to the Government for bailouts when the BS implodes: Legal

Someone please stop the planet... I( want OFF!!!

Originally posted by Nutter
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

There are many "mind altering" substances you probably use throughout your daily life and yet you don't even know it.

1. Water. In enough quantities can cause you to hallucinate. Even cause death.

2. Nugmeg in the right quantities will cause you to hallucinate for 3 days straight.

I am going to guess you mean water with flouride in it.

I do not drink water with flouride in it.

And I do not eat nutmeg unless it is baked within something.

I do not go out of my way to eat it either.

Originally posted by Nutter
Two things off the top of my head that we use every day but have the potential to be "mind altering".

Are you "against" water also?

Disclaimer: I am not advocating drinking lots of water or eating nutmeg to "trip". Kids....do not try this. It isn't fun at all.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by Nutter]

I have to laugh becuse you're never going to get me to advocate hemp.

I could care less either way.

I will remain ambivalent until the day I die.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Originally posted by Nutter
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

There are many "mind altering" substances you probably use throughout your daily life and yet you don't even know it.

1. Water. In enough quantities can cause you to hallucinate. Even cause death.

2. Nugmeg in the right quantities will cause you to hallucinate for 3 days straight.

I am going to guess you mean water with flouride in it.

I do not drink water with flouride in it.

And I do not eat nutmeg unless it is baked within something.

I do not go out of my way to eat it either.

Originally posted by Nutter
Two things off the top of my head that we use every day but have the potential to be "mind altering".

Are you "against" water also?

Disclaimer: I am not advocating drinking lots of water or eating nutmeg to "trip". Kids....do not try this. It isn't fun at all.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by Nutter]

I have to laugh becuse you're never going to get me to advocate hemp.

I could care less either way.

I will remain ambivalent until the day I die.

where does your water come from that it isnt fluoridated?

and i am new to this discussion but from your statement "you're never going to get me to advocate hemp" seems to mean no proof in the world could convince you it is a beneficial substance, so why even be in a thread about the substance since you have a biased way of thinking?

back to the water thing, yes you can consume too much water, and it can cause different effects depending on the person and circumstance and hallucination is another one of those possibilities, everything in excess is bad for you, and everything on this earth has the capabilities of being excessive

another thing to mention is this thread is further biased enforcement of ats policy

this thread speaks about the topic at hand which is not yet legalized, it is therefore advocacy for legalization which is supposedly against the policy of ats


again my goal is to not have this thread deleted, but to have equal enforcement across the board


according to mods, since this has not yet been legalized, it is legal advocation and violation of ats policy

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

While I respect you, tothetenthpower, and your thoughts as well as the well thought out thread, I do not now nor will I ever support drugs, hemp, or other by products in any way, shape, or form.

so u dont support drugs

do you take any medication? no if not great for you

if you take even tylenol you are hypocritical, and i am 100 percent positive acetaminophen is more dangerous then marijuana, especially hemp


edited to say i read more of the thread (not all of it yet i will admit)

but i seem to have read you dont take aspirin or that type of thing, so you are not hypocritical and i commend you for that, b ut just because one doesnt take medication, does not mean that would work for the rest of the world

you take all the meds away tomorrow, and a ton of people will die within a day, i wouldnt be shocked if half the population was lost within a month if we did away with all medication


i guess the point i want to make, is that everyday we need to continue to study not only the medicines we have already, but new substances, while there has been study on hemp and marijuana, there is still more that needs to be done, and for anyone to have their mind made up 100 percent just doesnt seem appropriate as there is still a great deal of this earth we dont fully understand and have true knowledge of

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Dramey]

edited one last time to also address a comment you made about not fighting for a losing team, i am in no way attacking you, but they may not be a safe mentality


i often use the Nuremberg trial as an example to things, but it seems to fit in many places

they all went along with hitler supposedly because they thought he was the winning team, and they didnt want to fight on the losing team, i am not comparing you to a nazi so please dont take that kind of offense, but i am saying, its dangerous to be unwilling to fight on a losing side, just because the side is losing, doesnt mean the side isnt right

you seem to have good grasp on the way things work, an open mind may serve you better, but to each their own and i mean nothing to be offensive

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Dramey]