Water Freezes When Heated (newly discovered phenomenon)

That's crazy! Don't try making soup with that water.

Originally posted by tensetek
When I read this I was like COOL, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!! COMPUTER OVERCLOCKING INSANITY!!! Think about it, if they could make something small enough to go in a PC to change the water to ... i forget .. I'm just gonna say - (negative) so the water could be cooled to the negatives man o man, I think this could change how we cool our PC's.

DK

We already have water-cooling systems for Home computers, and industry mainframes use it in some fashions too.. This could be added to it to further bring the temps down of very hot systems to lower temperatures..

With Processors, the higher the temp, the less-reliable the processor becomes. So the lower you keep the processor, the more reliable and efficent it becomes.

the implications could be quite beneficial, once we figure out how the science behind it works.

Sadly, it will be a while before us in the "consumer" sector see such a thing being used on a larger scale.

That is strange but what is stranger is they are just now discovering something like this. Weird. You would think something like this was known long ago.

The anomalies in "dust-free" water are thoroughly known and investigated. We have "super-heated" water that will suddenly explode into steam. We have "super-cooled" water in clouds that only forms ice as it contacts a dirty airplane, lol!

Still, this is a cool find, as it is regulated by electrical properties in the material. This could be very useful. Anti-icing on airplane wings and roads comes to mind right away!

I am sure it is a chemical electro-magnetic property. Water is a very polar molecule, so it makes sense that aligning its structure magnetically could help it form a crystalline lattice...i.e. "freeze." And, it makes sense that charging its environment to repel water molecules from one another would make it much more difficult to freeze.

Pressure has a similar effect on materials, especially water.

Here is a cool home experiment with water:

1. Get a glass bottle of coke or some other watery liquid. (Not beer, alcohol changes things.)

2. Put it in the freezer overnight.

3. Take it out and look, it won't be frozen.

4. Now, pop the top and get an instant icy drink!

Since water actually expands as a crystalline solid instead of contracting, it is impossible for it to freeze in a rigid glass bottle. Remove the cap and it can now instantly freeze!

No dummies, it won't work in plastic. You just get a stupid shaped plastic ice block! I keep trying to freeze a plastic bottle to role under my sore feet, but it winds up being a triangle and it doesn't help at all!

reply to post by getreadyalready


LOL...I put a root beer in the freezer a couple hours ago...went and got it out just before reading your post and it was liquid (of course I was on ATS and forgot about it). I popped the top and it froze solid...I knew better...alas, it's Friday and I'm impatient. So, it's funny that you mention this. It was diet root beer by the way...no alcohol...yet

[edit on 5-2-2010 by Aggie Man]

Originally posted by oozyism
I don't think it would be long before they find out why.

It won't be wrong before they come up with a bunch of theories, sure.

But I also wouldn't be surprised to see these same theories overturned down the road, just like current theories are now.

It's an endless cycle and if you should take anything away from it, it's that we don't know nearly as much as we ALWAYS think we do.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
It was diet root beer by the way...no alcohol...yet

They make alcoholic root beer?

I knew you could make alcoholic ginger beer. Never heard of alcoholic root beer, but wouldn't at all be surprised... never even thought of looking it up.

Sounds like it would be pretty damned good though.

Although VERY interesting, the thread title is misleading. As they are not useing "pure" water in thier experiments.

Sure there are countless chemicals and additives that you can add to water, or even solids(like steel/iron), or gases, to give them higher or lower boiling points, or higher or lower freezing points.

The question is (and I think I read something about super-cooling computers?) is this of any technological value whatsover?

Is this lie antifreeze on steriods? Should we all just be filling out radiators with water and some of this lithium tantalate? I'd say not yet, because if it hits this magic temperatature around 12 gregrees, and the other being 17 degrees, the water could instantly tyurn positivelt or negatively changred, causeing a VERY messy and expensive situation. and who's to say how many of these temputers exists that throw this (can't call it water, cause it's not) liquid into a positive ot negative state.

Againe VERY interesting, but not really ground breaking, Although IT COULD BE. Don't get me wrong. I'm fairly interested and exitec about this. But it'd be great it you could also drink the water(in a survival situation wiout worrying about it turning into a Brick sized Ice cube in your stomach, or worse of, you intestine.

But they are just scratching the surface herem and I think so amazing new technologies could come from this!

Starred and Flagged! Although the title is a bit misleading, but how else do you get people to open your thread

So the same phenomenon which Plumbers have reported for a 100 years is now a scientific fact? nice.

Plumbers, and those doing work around their homes, have known that hot water freezes in pipes faster than cold.

Originally posted by Meesterjojo
So the same phenomenon which Plumbers have reported for a 100 years is now a scientific fact? nice.

Plumbers, and those doing work around their homes, have known that hot water freezes in pipes faster than cold.

Yeah...and my freezer seems to make less ice when it's cold outside...what gives?



EDIT: maybe something to do with molecules being more excited when hot and less when cold...perhaps, no?

[edit on 5-2-2010 by Aggie Man]

At a glance, this sounds related to fuel cell meshes.

Note the change in polarity to suggest possible proton exchange. Heat (fire reaction) then acts as an extra catalyst. Older fuel cells not based on meshes used to need to get real hot in order to work. Newer ones use the meshes.

Fuel cell industries continually invent new polymer surfaces in order to avoid the need to use rare metals and heat as catalyst.

It would be different if it was fusion.


[edit on 5-2-2010 by dzonatas]

Every plumber in the world knows the hot lines freeze before the cold lines. Why is that?

water freez at 32F. they managed to keep it in liquid form at -40 then freezed it at 17F. well, 17F is still below the freezing point, so why is this so intriguing?

Originally posted by DOADOA
water freez at 32F. they managed to keep it in liquid form at -40 then freezed it at 17F. well, 17F is still below the freezing point, so why is this so intriguing?

Because the rote memorization of "water freezes at 32F" is leaving a lot of understanding out, like atmospheric pressure, and now there are even more asterisks to add to that "fact." This all applies to our understanding of the most basic facts we learned as children.

Not surprisingly they are causing these deviations by working with levels much smaller than the molecular, to ionization with individual electrons. The smaller we look down into things, the more we realize we can change about them from a fundamental level, and the more we realize things were not at all as simple as they originally appeared to be.

This is fake.That is not water.

Firstly, hello all! 1st post!

Now, being scientific in nature, should we be discussing this using the Kelvin scale? I like the idea that water freezes at 273(k). Even better, lets go celcius, 0(c) is easy to remember, and cause I'm Australian!

I do find this discovery rather interesting, and don't claim to be jeopardy science smart either, but my "theory" is this. Lets say the negatively charged water has its electrons flowing towards the lithium plate. Would this not mean that the electrons are crashing into the lithium, whilst the electrons above them hit them etc. This would mean more heat is generated at the lowerest water levels due to friction, therefore letting it freeze from the top down due to reduced activity, perhaps?

These minor temperature changes I don't believe would make much use yet, but understanding the theory and enhancing its applications could indeed prove some impressive results.


[edit on 6-2-2010 by Qumulys]

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Another strange thing happened: on a positively charged surface, the water froze from the bottom up, and on a negatively charged surface, the water froze from the top down.

I am very surprised they are acting like this is a new discovery.

Ive known these special water effects for a few years now.

The quote is very important:
"Negatively charged surface = water froze from the top down"....

I've known about this effect because of rivers and streams. If it wasn't for the water freezing from the top down all the fish in the rivers and streams would die.

Earth is a huge negative charge.... so this has an effect on EVERYTHING, including the water in streams and rivers.



reply to post by Donkey_Dean


That's the Mpemba Effect.

Originally posted by expat2368
This is very interesting, and not just from the standpoint of climate science. (If indeed there is any science left in "climate science" these days)

It is known that water molecules actually do have some "memory" associated with them which apparently changes their shape in some way or another. That electrical charges can change the freezing point could also mean that electrical charges could change the very chemical nature of the water and potentially make hydrogen separation require less energy if applied correctly.

And we thought we knew most everything about the stuff.

Yes, I'm constantly amazed at how science is so "cock sure" of themselves when it comes to their scientific dogmas, and how they poo-poo anyone who dare challenge their superior "wisdom," and yet when they discover some new amazing phenomenon they just go along as if nothing happened. I think it's great that they make new discoveries... I just wish they weren't so darned arrogant about what they think they already know. It would make discussing things with them much more enlightening if parties in a scientific discussion maintained an open mind to new and potentially revolutionary discoveries.

Originally posted by DOADOA
water freez at 32F. they managed to keep it in liquid form at -40 then freezed it at 17F. well, 17F is still below the freezing point, so why is this so intriguing?

I think you totally missed the point here. The water stayed liquid at WAY BELOW the freezing point, at -40, and then as they raised the temperature, the water froze at 17F... just by raising the temperature. That is highly counter-intuitive if science's understanding of molecules, water, and thermodynamics is correct.

Plus, the central issue in all this was THEY REMOVED THE DUST from the water. I don't see people paying attention to that fact. The presence of dust in the water seems to have a profound impact on its thermodynamic properties.

Ahhhh, yes, the mysteries of water. Water and electricity are still "natural" things that perplex humanity. Perhaps,they always will.

We start our life being 99 percent water, as fetuses. When we are born, we are 90 percent water, and by the time we reach adulthood we are down to 70 percent with 90% of our blood and plasma being water. We are all liquid beings consisting of about ten gallons of water encapsulated in trillions of cells. Water is the universal medium for all biological activity; it dissolves, dilutes, transports, and reacts with every chemical essential for life. One mysterious thing about water is that ice floats in it. This permits life to survive safely under the ice during freezing weather. Most scientists assume that water is water, just H2O, and judge its implications to our health solely upon chemical and bacterial analysis. However, it has long been recognized that cell-associated water (vicinal water) has different properties than ordinary water. It is less dense, requires more energy to heat, has greater viscosity, and different phase change temperatures.

Water

Perhaps the philosophers of old weren't off base when they claimed that the universal element is water. After all, without it, nothing of substance can exist.

I first came across this when I read Living Energy Universe:

The most mysterious and controversial property of water, however, is its ability to hold and store memory. This property underlies the healing capability of homeopathy. A successful healing technique for both humans and animals that has prevailed for over two hundred years. A homeopathic solution usually in water is produced via a series of dilutions of a substance, often until effectively no atoms of the original material remain. Only an imprint or memory remains for the cure, and the greater the dilution, the greater the effectiveness.

Living water

Thales stated that the origin of all matter is water. Although this sounds a bit odd, there may be some truth in it. As we know today, the largest constituent of the universe is hydrogen, which makes two of the three atoms in water (H2O). The missing oxygen atom was added later when our planet formed. Scientists believe that liquid water is prerequisite to life, and we know with certainty that the first life forms flourished in the oceans, so water is indeed a primordial substance

Thales

Like I stated, perhaps the philosophers of old were quite correct. Now, we have come across something in water that could save the planet!! Wow.... We are living in strange times, folks. Strange times indeed.