Atheist? probably not.

Originally posted by Lophe
Haha great post! I have many issues with these self righteous atheist my self. The thing I hate the most is when you use the lord name in vain and the atheist chimes in with "I don't believe in god." Like it was a question.

Are you a christian? Cause for an atheist, god is a word, not a name. You do know what the christian god's name is? Or are you telling me that atheists go around yelling "Yahweh" in different "vain" ways?

[edit on 2/2/2010 by Daniem]

reply to post by Arizonee

Me: "do you believe in Superman and Wolverine?" Him: "no" Me: "but you like talking about comics..."

There is a world of difference between enjoying the Wolverine fantasy and persuading a 6 year old that, not only is Wolverine a very real person but that he knows what your thinking at every moment.

Not only is Wolverine monitoring the thoughts of said 6 year old but should the child act in anyway contrary to what Wolverine demands then the child will spend an eternity/forever being cut up into small chunks by wolverines blades and being fed to Magneto.


If you want to talk to your friend about your imaginary friend then by all means go ahead, but it is fair to say that 9 times out of ten any time an xtian opens their head in front of a non believer it is in order to persuade the non believer that their delusion is a reality.

Dude, wise up if people want to hear about jesusyahwhe they can go to a church or read a bible, you've nothing new or exiting to talk about at work on monday morning like jesus turning up to open a new hospital over the weekend and how cool it was.

Where I pissed off is that often, when an atheist chooses to debate religion or the jesus god etc at work the xtians can often get a bee in their bonnet and whinge about religious discrimination.

If you have a friend that's an atheist then have a little common courtesy and understand that he/she is probably of the opinion that you are deluded and doesn't really want to share your delusion unless it is to debate it.

reply to post by moocowman


I do wish religious people would realize that, when they start preaching their religion to someone who doesn't believe in it (whether atheist or just a member of a different religion) they inevitably sound crazy. It would save the religious a lot of breath, it would save everybody headaches, and maybe it would get people to reflect and ask themselves "Say... why DO they think I'm crazy for believing that an invisible being sent another invisible being to give recital lessons to a carpet merchant in a cave who performed a miracle by making a mountain stay right where it is?"

reply to post by Arizonee


When people talk about micky mouse it is understood that micky is make believe. If however someone were talking about micky as if he were real then it would be obvious that person is deranged and no normal person would want to continue the conversation. I am sure it would be just as irksome as listening to one who talks about his imaginary friend god as if it were real.

well, from the replies i've read so far the atheists definately have the best sense of humour. Maybe you religious folks, should just chill out a bit and accept not everyone believes in a God, let alone the Christian God.

We are not bad people filled with hate, we know the difference between right and wrong, we feel bad when we do something wrong and happy when we help others. we dont feel we have something missing in our lives that needs comforting. well maybe some do? I just dont see how having "faith"has improved the lives of believers over non believers

reply to post by Arizonee

A few days ago I was discussing religion with some friends. One of my friends was visibly upset and he said "I'm an atheist.

It is this kind of thing that gives Christians a bad name amongst non theists. Imagine a group of religious people ganging up on you for not believing in the same things we do. I learned a long time ago not to argue about religion because it does nothing but separate everyone.

I am a Christian, I don't feel I should push my beliefs amongst anyone. If people wanted to believe there are many sources available at the click of a button.

Your friend was clearly upset, you did not have to keep pushing him to talk about your religion discussion.

Originally posted by jokei
I don't recall any wars in the name of Mickey Mouse.

And I doubt the OP was talking about Mickey Mouse or the Wolverine as if they were real.

OP - Try not to put all atheists in one basket. They don't belong together. I'm an atheist and I quite like discussing people's religious views, including those about God. I'm not at all uncomfortable with it or offended by it. It's when people stuff it down my throat that I don't like it. Still, it's their freedom to do so.

So now you can't say that all the atheists you've run into feel the same as your friend.

reply to post by Arizonee


To the OP. Yes, I have some thoughts on this. For a start I find it offensive that you presume that atheists actually acknowledge God but choose to shun him/her/it. No, Atheists do not believe in God full stop. Simple as that. The reason we don't have trouble people talking about comic book characters etc. is because this discussion does not lay on the premise that these fictional characters exist. We all know that they don't. However, if I were in the company of a group of people whom believed in the existence of Mickey Mouse, you ccan be sure that I would get upset and ask that the subject be changed. This is the simple flaw in your argument. Theism is a superstition that unfortunately far too many people believe. Wouldn't it be nice if Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy were in fact real? However they are not, and I challenge you to sit with a group of people talking about the existence of Santa and not ask for the changes be made. I wonder how you would take it if one of those said people claimed that you acknowledge the Tooth Fairy, but for some reason have decided to shun him.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by Arizonee

 

It has nothing to do with the mention or speaking of god. It has EVERYTHING to do with having the ideas of god pushed upon people, and the general stigma from god-believers that atheists are in denial, that they are heathens, or are going to hell.

Removing post, thinking better to say nothing.
[edit on 2-2-2010 by pumpkinorange]

[edit on 2-2-2010 by pumpkinorange]

reply to post by Arizonee

Haven't read all posts, but a nice word game.
However it could backfire with more experienced atheists, and they usually don't take offense at religion.
I could also use that argument towards offended mainstream Christians, and replace "god' with Allah or Krishna.
I'd also be careful with the God/Mickey Mouse comparison. Some may mistake that for blasphemy.

The question is also dubious: it leads the respondent to say: I believe in some fairy tales, and therefore I must believe them all.
Besides, Mickey Mouse as a cartoon character does exist - this is proven by countless comics and cartoons. So far there is no concrete evidence that the historical Jesus existed. Unlike Mickey Mouse, we don't even have an image of Jesus that isn't a blatant fraud.
So part of the response should question the quality of the evidence.


[edit on 3-2-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by halfoldman

Let's attempt some other variations on the argument:
At a barbeque on a Saturday evening:
"Jeez dude, stop with the Koran preaching already, I'm a Christian and don't believe in that".
"Do you believe in Allah and Islam?"
"No"
"Do you believe that Mickey Mouse is real?"
"No"....
So why are you calling it preaching if I'm talking about something you say doesn't exist?"
Duh.

A new scenario:
"Bill, please stop now with the Richard Dawkins readings and talk about evolution - my wife and I are Christians and we will never believe in that".
"Do you belive in the theory of evolution?"
"No".
"Do you believe in Mickey Mouse?"
"No".
"Then how can I offend your beliefs by talking about evolution?"

[edit on 3-2-2010 by halfoldman]

[edit on 3-2-2010 by halfoldman]

[edit on 3-2-2010 by halfoldman]

It's an interesting premise put forward there by the OP. As an almost aethist (Still not done the suicide thing, so there's hope for something) I'd like to share something of my own experience from last night.

I was having a drink with God, Wolverine and Mickey Mouse in a bar on Mars. Lord Luton and Shergar came in, Mickey asked Shergar:

"Why the long face?"

To which he replied

"I'm offended by that remark."

God roared with laughter and called him a PC putz for being so easily offended and smot him with lightning and told Lord Luton to "Get lost!", half an hour later he came back with a DVD of seasons 1,2 and 3.

During our drinking session Wolverine said to God:

"What happens when it all ends? When the big crunch comes...will I still be invincible?"

To which God chirped:

"I've no idea, I'll be gone before you. As soon as reason takes hold of man's mind they'll only use me in humorous anecdotes about the folly of sanity and comprehension. I might get lucky and stick about a bit in history books and as footnotes, but they'll all be destroyed before the end."

Mickey, quite unlike himself posed

"So are you saying we are fictional characters in a fictional universe musing on our own existence?"

To which I replied

"Well you guys might be, but I have my own existence in another universe which whilst suffering from the same questions as here does have rules which we can categories, nature which we can study and opinions we can share. It's not as exciting as it is here, but it does have a lot of things going for it."

God, as always, jumps right onto this

"Am I there in that universe, can I employ my powers like I can here and be omnipotent by smiting those whom I don't like?"

"Sadly God," I started "No, you only exist here in my head. There are other gods similar to you but they only exist in the heads of those who share my universe with me."

"So who's the god of your universe then?" He asked.

"No-one really, there are just stories like this one which I'll be recalling on the boards of a conspiracy theory forum tomorrow, but that's about it - just stories. No person or entity, no booming voice, no hilltop or floating castle - just stories about them that will have no more or less weight than my story about you guys".

Mickey, back on form, quips "But no-one's going to believe you m0r, they'll say you're a raving loonie and are talking absolute nonsense. Moderators will probably try and mark your thoughts as off topic or inappropriate."

"Sadly Mickey, that's just the way it is. No-one can say you guys are any more or less real to me than I can say to them about their Gods, Mickeys or Wolverines being unreal. In my head you are real and in their heads their friends, who may or may not be you, are real."

"Sounds hunky to me" Wolverine said through a smile partly hidden by cigar smoke "No-one is right and no-one is wrong. Everybody wins!"

"Well" I began "That should be how it is but some people want to tell children that the people in their imagination are not real and that the people in their own imagination is"

"What!!?" boomed God, his voice shattering the diamond moons of Niburi which were just emerging from a spiral over Norway "Are you telling me that some people want to kill other people's imagination and claim their own musings are better than someone else's without any way of proving them?"

"Bang on God, got it in one" I state.

"But that's abominable" Mickey said "Destroying entire universes because you think your idea is a better one than someone else's!"

"Exactly my thoughts" I tell them "But moreover they actually kill people who don't think the same way they do. Actually take their existence and snuff it out"

"It's a damn shame I can't get there" Wolverine growls "I'd kick their sorry butts for being so cruel. Who can deny someone their own thoughts?"

"It's just as well you remain here" God began "Obviously the people who think their universes are better than other peoples believe that they are doing right and probably with great conviction - Am I right m0r?"

"Well God; you're not wrong. Many of these folk don't think they are being nasty or cruel. They think they are helping others, actually saving them and allowing them to live for eternity in a paradise. They truly believe this the same way I believe I am talking to you. You guys known this is real don't you?"

"Sure" " Absolutely" "As real as the buttons on my shorts"

"Well their guys know they are real with the same conviction. I can't say they're wrong". I take a sip of my cactus juice and eye up Jessica Rabbit who's on stage singing 'Teenage Dirtbag'.

"So whatcha gonna do about it?" Mickey asks.

"There's not much I can do" I reply. "My thoughts need to be substantiated by evidence in order for me to assume they are real. Outside of here things must make sense for them to worthy of teaching to others. I can only hope that somehow I can get people to challenge everything around them, see if they can get verification for things, be able to duplicate what other people say and find reason behind it all as best they can."

"Even Batman can't do that" God pipes in.

"I know, but I do what I must because I can. It's thankless, tiring and hard going but I try to make it fun" I reflect. Jessica is making eyes at me now and so I start to get ready to go.

"When you coming back?" asks Wolverine.

"Well God's fighting the Flying Spaghetti Monster next week isn't he?" I say.

"Am I?" Says God shocked at the news.

"You are now" I say with a smile.

"I'm off to party with Jessica and then try to rehash our time together into an existentialist piece of prose that challenges meta-fiction whilst flying under the radar of intellectual property by being fair use due to it's educational narrative."

"Sounds boh-ring" Chimes Mickey "...well apart from the Jessica part. That sounds great!!"

"Don't forget to proofread it" Says God "And keep it under 6500 characters!"

"He always misses something" groans Wolverine. " It's almost his signature characteristic."

"Well it's been fun guys" I say as I pick up my coat "And don't do anything that I can't imagine!"

We all laugh and I make for the door and take Jessica's gloved hand.

I hope my experience can be useful for some people, even if it's only for the humour.

Best of luck everyone!

-m0r

reply to post by m0r1arty


Star for that post it was very amusing and must have took ages to write.

What is of concern is the type of unreasonable stupidity that religion can breed.

Here's a clip of a group of youngsters discussing xtianity, although the girls are young and can be forgiven for a certain amount of stupidity they are not children and their mindset is obviously ingrained.

It is hard to believe (well not really) that these young people are raised in one of the most powerful and advanced nations on earth and have access to some of the best education on the planet.

I'm not for a minute trying to imply that all Americans are as ignorant as this but I certainly notice the trend in Christians that have been raised in a more religiously insular manner .

Imagine these girls in ten years time working in some office and having lunch break with them, it's enough to make your toes curl because the chances are that their ignorant stupidity will have probably matured inot fully fledged arrogance.

reply to post by moocowman


This did make my toes curl.... lol. The look in here eyes..... my freinds going to hell because she doesnt believe in jesus. Both of them were incredibly ignorant about their faiths, but what do you expect from children?

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by m0r1arty

 

It is hard to believe (well not really) that these young people are raised in one of the most powerful and advanced nations on earth and have access to some of the best education on the planet.

It is because of a failure to apply the same critical thinking skills to their religious beliefs which are required to live and work in the real world.

That's dependent upon the individual atheist you are talking about OP. Not all of them have a problem with the concept of a "God" or those that believe in one of it's MANY interpretations they just simply disagree. Now, the self-righteous iconoclastic militant atheist that carry such ideosyncrancies. And the opinion as to why run the gambit.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

But I tend to believe at least a majority of the latter is often reinforced victim mentality. Often encouraged by people like Dawkins for the purpose of group cohesion. With some aspects of a inferiority/superiority complex.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

OP, as someone who doesn't follow any religion, and is rather at a loss as to what is really going on in that since, let me liken your story to one of mine:

About a year and a half ago I was hanging with some people that fully believe that zombies will come and there WILL be a zombpocalypse. And I mean truely believe with the strength that fundamentalist believe in god. They sleep with the zombie survival guide next to their bed.

Well they started getting into this deep deep discussion on where they will go when it happens, one even was in the final stages of purchasing land. One has a tent set up in nearby woods with supplies he keeps regularly stocked. These people are serious is what I'm trying to say. Anyways, they were in this discussion and I was like, "enough already lets change the subject this is just freaking crazy"

I of course was harpooned for saying this. Well all but one of them went out for a smoke, and that one very plainly explained that because I don't believe it, doesn't mean I can't enjoy or even participate in the conversation. At the very least, I could find the humor in it all. Which was completely true.

So i spent the next 2 hours interjecting with humorous comments that they all took with laughter.

So basically, I think your friend could have gotten over himself. There is nothing wrong in either watching, or participating in a conversation that you don't necessarily believe in. Especially when it is amongst friends.

here's my take on it. I dont like it when people talk about religion to me, but I also dont like it when people talk about golf, Lady Gaga, Greys Anatomy and anything else that DOESNT INTEREST me.

seems cut and dry to me

reply to post by moocowman


You could take away those Girls Christianity and they would still be extremely annoying ignorant dumb fools... Christian, atheist, Muslim, Jew, whatever, Stupid people are stupid people!!!

But WOW was they stupid!!!!

"Is Africa in like Asia... no wait... are you Asian African... but why are you so Dark?"

As a Christian myself, I would happily spend the next few nights begging for forgiveness after slapping the faces of both them girls and their ignorant families who have obviously done such a poor job raising them

A horrible trait that some people have is over confidence mixed with very limited education... It’s almost like they haven’t had an education so much as a lifelong pep talk!!

In fact... add the Girls School and Church to my "people to slap" list!

To the OP... Personally i feel that you should have backed off the moment your friend looked uncomfortable... It’s not very nice (or Christian) to put someone on the spot like that. You could have easily changed the subject and then later, when own your own with the guy, said
“Hey, I’m sorry about earlier... didn’t mean to make you feel uncomfortable... if you ever do wanna talk about that subject though you know where i am”

I’m afraid that all you may have achieved is to reinforce the stereotype that all Christians are pushy preachers... I hope I’m wrong!