AE911 Press Conference - Feb 19th, 2010

Please stop the puerile attacks and stay On Topic

Thank you

Semper

Originally posted by mmiichael


There is an Internet filled with people who do actual research and investigating. Politics, nationalities and affiliations of all stripes. We're talking a hundred million people, some the leading authorities and experts in their fields. All too often what they have to say is less prominent on a quick Google hunt becaue they don't feel the need for self-promotion with sensation-seeking headlines and content.

Then there is a loud highly visible fringe culture component that feels they have some critical mass because they can call on hundreds of commercial websites and videos, sometimes endorsed by some non-entity opportunistic academic or professional somewhere. They characterisitically are heavy on claims but light on substantiation.

After 8 years with all the complaints about a mythologized Official Story, yet to appear is a coherent Unofficial Story providing documentation and citations, backed by a significant number of recognized professionals.

Global Warming prognostication, whether real or not, managed to gain a credible following worldwide in very little time.

We're still waiting for proof of the fabled Controlled Demolition with something more concrete than a a physics prof at a Mormon College applying a blowtorch to some red oxide paint chips and calling it 'thermite'

You claim that being suspicious of a government that has lied and murdered to get their way in the past unsubstantiated? Although this is the exact pattern of behavior demonstrated by them throughout history, to suspect them this time is invalid? Regardless that they have all the motive, profit potential, prior convictions and means to do this, you would have to be crazy to suspect them? Despite their explanation is a grossly incomplete and erroneous attempt at describing a never before seen building collapse, you fail to see anything unusual? This first ever total structure failure caused by fire happened to three buildings in one day, but nothing to be concerned of?

Without any further info this is arguably the most suspicious event in world history. Add the other bizarre incidences caused by this and you cannot begin to accept it. To accept it as you have can never be justified. Unprecedented building collapses, virtually no airplane debris from four planes, zero national security response, fake phone calls, fraudulent 911 Commission and NIST Reports, etc..

This shouldn't raise suspicion? Did you support their lies about Vietnam? How about Pearl Harbor? JFK? MLK? John Lennon? Waco? History proves that all they do is lie, but you need more evidence? Are we supposed to take you seriously?

You're also combative and insulting to those disagreeing with you which is a dead give away that you are wrong. You denounce evidence claiming it from bogus internet, but back it up with internet sources? You are grossly confused in your knowledge, or you're lying about what you believe?

If you can, explain just this one thing? The US Government has lied and conspired many times to further their agenda, so how do you conclude that suspecting them of this is wrong and trusting them right?

Originally posted by Zerbst
If you can, explain just this one thing? The US Government has lied and conspired many times to further their agenda, so how do you conclude that suspecting them of this is wrong and trusting them right?

The US government has lied and murdered many times. Every government on the planet has lied and murdered many times.

The US government is not a room full of people sitting around plotting crimes all day. The US government manages collection of taxes, resource acquisitions, national trade arrangements, infrastructure maintenance, national security and policing, dispensation of aid, food and drug administration, and about ten thousand other vital functions that make it possible for 300 million people to work, travel, have some degree of security domestically, count on having health and retirement benefits, and on and on and on.

I try not to get insulting but don't really know how to reply to this "the US has lied in the past so that means everything they say is a lie."

My parents lied to me, my wife lied to me, my former bosses lied to me, my best friend lied to me. I learned to deal with it. I lie to people too.

The Us is not obligated to tell you or anyone the details of it's foreign policy when there are security issues at stake. They often make misjudgements. They often act in a self-serving manner.

But all in all they've managed to establis and maintain the most massive infrastructure that has ever existed. For the most part it works. And it works considerably better than almost all the governmental structures currently on the planet.

People are able to eat, go to any place on the planet, enjoy something resembling a full life, even bitch and moan to each other how they've been betrayed by the Big Bad US government whenever they want without fear of censure.

Not everyone feels obliged to fill you in on what they are up to all the time. Most people figure that out very early on in life.

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Zerbst
If you can, explain just this one thing? The US Government has lied and conspired many times to further their agenda, so how do you conclude that suspecting them of this is wrong and trusting them right?

I try not to get insulting but don't really know how to reply to this "the US has lied in the past so that means everything they say is a lie."

You are claiming to not know how to reply to your own statement. The quote above is yours although you're suggesting it's mine? I asked if you would reply to my questions, not your made up ones?


I asked this:

"If you can, explain just this one thing? The US Government has lied and conspired many times to further their agenda, so how do you conclude that suspecting them of this is wrong and trusting them right?"


You responded by agreeing the US lies and murders, then rambled on about who else lies to you. You continued with info of various federal government responsibilities and accomplishments that are neither relevant nor useful to the discussion.

But all in all they've managed to establis and maintain the most massive infrastructure that has ever existed. For the most part it works. And it works considerably better than almost all the governmental structures currently on the planet.

People are able to eat, go to any place on the planet, enjoy something resembling a full life, even bitch and moan to each other how they've been betrayed by the Big Bad US government whenever they want without fear of censure.

The above is you blubbering about the goodness of the American government. This isn't even close to what might possibly possess you to give them the benefit of the doubt in any wrongdoing regarding 911.

You agree they lie and murder, so what is irrational about suspecting them in 911? I think your position of trusting they were not involved has no merit. You confirm this by refusing to explain this ridiculous conclusion.

Originally posted by Zerbst
The above is you blubbering about the goodness of the American government. This isn't even close to what might possibly possess you to give them the benefit of the doubt in any wrongdoing regarding 911.

You agree they lie and murder, so what is irrational about suspecting them in 911? I think your position of trusting they were not involved has no merit. You confirm this by refusing to explain this ridiculous conclusion.

I don't think you're prepared t discuss issues. Everything is for the same rhetoric: The US lied and murdered - they're capable of anything.

I tried to open the discussion. What is the US government? The people who and out food stamps, the poultry farm board, the road crew foremen, the tax department? Where they all in on 9/11.

9/11 in fact was a terrorist attack by foreign nationals. 8 long years later we have independently accumulated documentation of that. Confessions, massive testimony for directly involve perpetrator, literally tons of forensic evidence.

A few members working for the US government at the time and it's agencies had some sot of foreknowledge of the event, some went to great effort to conceal the involvement of certain factions in the Saudi and Pakistani governments.

Bu there are US government employees who have gone to great length to rectify the fallout of this terrible crime and indite those with culpability.

Nothing in all this reduces to your: Big Bad Evil government - they lie all the time. The US Federal government alone is something like 2.5 million full-time employees, and maybe as many part-timers, contractors, client company workers. The state and local employees would account for many millions more.

So who and at what level are people responsible?

Originally posted by mmiichael
I don't think you're prepared t discuss issues. Everything is for the same rhetoric: The US lied and murdered - they're capable of anything.

I tried to open the discussion. What is the US government? The people who and out food stamps, the poultry farm board, the road crew foremen, the tax department? Where they all in on 9/11.

I don't call this opening the discussion, I call it "moving the goal posts." I don't think it's too hard to figure out that when those in the Truth Movement talk about the government being involved inor behind the 9-11 attacks we're talking about the highly visible members of the Bush administration that have the power to take an active role in such an endeavor. If you want a specific list of names I think a good place to start are the PNAC members who signed the document calling for a new Pearl Harbor event to catalyze the nation into changing the US Defense Department into a world police force to overrun soveriegn nations in support of building a new American Empire that dominates Russia and China by controlling the production and distribution of Middle Eastern oil. These are the same people who had the PATRIOT Act already written and ready for submission when the attacks went down, who already had written up the plans for the second Gulf War and the invasion of Afghanistan, and who first promised and then stonewalled a credible investigation into the attacks.

I'm pretty sure that no one is talking about the Farm Bureau or the FDA or the folks that work down at the Social Security office.

9/11 in fact was a terrorist attack by foreign nationals. 8 long years later we have independently accumulated documentation of that. Confessions, massive testimony for directly involve perpetrator, literally tons of forensic evidence.

Confessions exacted under torture cannot be used in an honest court. And what massive testimony are you referring to? The obviously faked and posthumous tapes attributed to Osama bin Laden? Or are you referring to the mute testimony given by the suitcase full of terrorist plot details that the airlines failed to get on the hijacked jet? I really can't imagine what you are talking about here. I also don't understand the phrase "independently accumulated documentation." Independent of whom or what? Is there a Mossad-type enforcement wing in the Denier movement that has been helping out the FBI and CIA in their attempts to bring the evil-doers to justice?

A few members working for the US government at the time and it's agencies had some sot of foreknowledge of the event, some went to great effort to conceal the involvement of certain factions in the Saudi and Pakistani governments.

Bu there are US government employees who have gone to great length to rectify the fallout of this terrible crime and indite those with culpability.

Wow, that sounds like treason to me, and it would seem that if the rule of law, and not the rule of the jungle, reigned over this world then those who had that foreknowledge should be brought before a jury and tried for criminal conspiracy and sedition. Would those also be the people who directed their agencies to remove evidence from the crime scenes and sell it off to foreign nationals? Or is it those that stonewalled the investigation by delaying it for several years, and then refused to testify before it unless they did so together, not under oath, and with no transcripts of the discussion?

You then ask who are these people who are responsible? You seem to know who some of them are, since you referred to them directly. Why don't you tell us who is involved in this conspiracy theory of prior knowledge of yours? I think they would be the best place to start the questions of a new and valid investigation.

Seriously, can you not see that you are contradicting yourself here?

[edit on 2/6/10 by without_prejudice]

This is today, no?

I wonder if Tiger will still be talking and if this will get any press time, at all.

Originally posted by without_prejudice

Wow, that sounds like treason to me, and it would seem that if the rule of law, and not the rule of the jungle, reigned over this world then those who had that foreknowledge should be brought before a jury and tried for criminal conspiracy and sedition. Would those also be the people who directed their agencies to remove evidence from the crime scenes and sell it off to foreign nationals? Or is it those that stonewalled the investigation by delaying it for several years, and then refused to testify before it unless they did so together, not under oath, and with no transcripts of the discussion?

You then ask who are these people who are responsible? You seem to know who some of them are, since you referred to them directly. Why don't you tell us who is involved in this conspiracy theory of prior knowledge of yours? I think they would be the best place to start the questions of a new and valid investigation.

Seriously, can you not see that you are contradicting yourself here?

Unfortunately you subscribe to every Truther story so are not open to discussing the real issues involved. Like the US selling off the steel is some conspiracy to conceal evidence. Do you actually believe they should have kept a million tons of steel for evidence? The steel and other salvageable debris was stored and open to the public for months.

More importantly there was no motivation to prove to online Truthers that the buildings collapsed due to the planes collisions, explosions, and uncontrolled fires. It was evident and specifics were determined on a dozen levels by both government and independent investigators worldwide.

WTC 7 was seen shaking and groaning for hours before the steel support finally gave way. But Truthers insist on replaying those final few seconds making claims for explosives that there is zero evidence. And who would be so stupid as to risk everything by planting explosives in destroyed building that would be torn down anyways.

The culpability of the Bush administration is a legal issue and is still being addressed. More misjudgement and negligence. Most significance was the Saudis and Pakistan's ISI being given a pass.
But international law is not simple. Exactly how do you address issues of certain factions in a government, ie certain members of the Saudi royal family, executing projects at odds with national policy.

The demarcations are also obscured because the attacks were by a shadowy group with no formal entity that was passively sanctioned by various heads of state. The Bush admin was in a very unique situation in that there was no single regime they could declare war on.

There is a lot of legal debate on all this - but this particular forum is not a place where complex issues are discussed.

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz
what of WTC-7?

Don't want to repeat what's been elaborated on already in hundreds of ATS threads. Check the search engine on the site.

WTC was chronically damaged on one face, sprinkler system was knocked out and water pressure could not be accessed to fight the fire.

The overheated steel structure with the damage put undue stress on key support columns which eventually gave way in an avalanche of failures resulting in collapse. An article in STRUCTURE Magazine a few years ago even isolate the exact column.

Despite massive speculation and wild claims, firefighters and thousands of spectators watched as WTC7 moaned and shuddered for hours the afternoon of 9/11 before it finally fell. No observation of characteristics of any explosive charges or evidence of them found in the debris.

More details here

www.debunking911.com...

That's impossible. Fire has never done that to a building before.

Answer two important questions:

1. How does a few office fires plummet through 80,000 tons of steel and concrete like it was thin air in 11 seconds, pulverizing it to dustt? A meteorite from space might be able to do that, but not a few office fires. Not one chance in a million.

NIST failed to explain it despite their millions. Can you?

2. How does a guy like Hannai Hanjour who never flew a 757 before suddenly does maneuvers on it that TOP GUN pilots say that they could not do?! (see the pilots section at www.patriotsquestion911.com) Do you buy that? If so, you've lost your marbles. If not, then you agree that the official 9/11 story is impossible!

Take your pick.

The mainstream media knows that if they touch the 9/11 subject and the public finds out the truth and confirms it, that all hell will break loose. Anarchy would erupt and millions would march on Washington demanding that the conspirators be handed over for justice. They know this and fear the consequences. That's why they didn't show up at the Press Conference.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by WWu777]