AE911 Press Conference - Feb 19th, 2010

reply to post by mmiichael


You seemed to have picked up some one who is the same mind set as you

Jjay55

your peers seem to agree with you.

Originally posted by Sean48

You seemed to have picked up some one who is the same mind set as you

your peers seem to agree with you.

I consider my peers people who live and work in the reality based world. We read books by people who know what they're talking about, use credible sources (ie NOT Youtube), communicate with experts, learn how to separate fact from fiction.

We share a broader more complex world view than "The Big Bad US Govt did it"

The video game world here, is fun to visit.
l
So many truly believe their communal fantasies. In a cult environment you get reinforcement.

The odd voice from the cold hard outside world is jarring and disconsonant.

Some people don't want to wake up or ever have to grow up.

Originally posted by Sean48
reply to post by mmiichael

 

You seemed to have picked up some one who is the same mind set as you

Jjay55

your peers seem to agree with you.

My friend , I meant no disrespect.

Merely pointing out there are those in your same mind set.

Originally posted by Sean48

Originally posted by Sean48
reply to post by mmiichael

 

You seemed to have picked up some one who is the same mind set as you

Jjay55

your peers seem to agree with you.

My friend , I meant no disrespect.

Merely pointing out there are those in your same mind set.

Thanks for the clarification. I think Jjay has an overreactive analytical take on many things. But she supplies a great balance to the over-the-top apologist and rationalizing away of Muslim world generated political problems.

Usually the real truth lies somewhere inbetween the more extreme viewpoints.


M

reply to post by mmiichael

In your lame desperate attempt to smear Seven Jones because he has discovered the truth,.
I have asked you many questions in my last two post to you, yet you refuse to answers any of them.
All you have done is given your uniformed opinions,
You have not posted any creditable sources that I have asked of you. The only thing you have done is given me a website of a lunatic opinions.

We all know the OS, and all your are doing is telling us the same garbage that we all have heard, since the day of 911.

I started a thread a couple of week’s age asking for debunkers to bring “creatable sources” to the table to back your claims.
Anyone can sit on their keyboard and spout “opinions” all day lone and cry it’s the truth but no one is going to listen to you, if that is all you are going to do. We are in here to uncover the already proven lies of 911 and tried to find the truth.
I don’t care what the propaganda News media has spouted about 911, we all know they are paid lairs.

No, you just want to bury your head in the sand.

That’s right I came on ATS to bury my head in the sand I spend all my time on 911 threads, defending nothing but the truth, yet all I want is to bury my head in the sand.
Get real!

Jones is a fraud.

You have never proven that. In fact, I ask you to bring some sources to back your claims YOU give us nothing but you opinions.

I linked to one paper that showed it.

I read it, it is nothing but a unscientific unproven nutcase opinions nothing more.

I don’t care to hear the problems that Jones had getting his paper published we know there are people doing everything they can to sabotage his work and to derail the truth from exposing demolition, a deep secrete the government does not want out.





[edit on 3-2-2010 by impressme]

Originally posted by impressme
In your lame desperate attempt to smear Seven Jones because he has discovered the truth,.
I have asked you many questions in my last two post to you, yet you refuse to answers any of them.

I skim through a few hundred messages a day, answer a small percentage of questions.

But I do recall saying there is a ton of information online with real chemists and demolition experts demolishing Jones and his phony thermite claims. Look up Dr Greening for starters. And have you read through that Italian site I liked to by the ballistics expert who actually did thermite tests and provided pictures?

And then there are dozens of long threads on Jones you can find through the ATS search function. A member using the name 'pteridine' has torn the Jones paint chip claim to shreds. He appears to be a professional chemist from his knowledge and experience.

If you have no understanding of the science involved and want to defend Jones - Good Luck. He is a slimeball ex-physics prof from a Mormon University cashing in on the Truther phenomenon. He has a track record of this kind of dishonest stuff.

It's readily apparent to anyone whose taken a college level chemistry course. Show the Bentham paper to any qualified chemist or prof and see what they say.



[edit on 3-2-2010 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael

If you have no understanding of the science involved and want to defend Jones - Good Luck. He is a slimeball ex-physics prof from a Mormon University cashing in on the Truther phenomenon. He has a track record of this kind of dishonest stuff.

Wrong.

Opinions, opinions, opinions, opinions.

Where are your sources to back your ridiculous opinions? You give us nothing.

You are spewing disinformation again and your hatred against someone you know nothing about.

I ask you several posts back to show proof that Jones is trying to become rich from his work.
You have shown us nothing, no sources, only to ignore my questions and spew hateful lies.

What you are doing is not debunking, you are running your own smear campaign against someone who has proven with sciences that the OS is a lie.
I don’t care what you ”think.” Bring some proof some sources to your wild allegation.

"where are the testing results that dismiss the possibility that explosives or accelerents were used..."

They were too busy making a buck on whatever steel was left at the WTC by shipping it off to India, China, wherever and using it to make naval ships from it. Quick, let's get rid of the evidence before someone thinks about testing if for explosives!

If they really wanted to get to the bottom of 9/11, there would have been a four or five year investigation starting immediately after the attacks. Instead, you get juvenile half assed assumptions being drawn, where the crime scene evidence was comprimised and even made to disappear, coupled with political stonewalling.

No investigation = Cover up

Originally posted by impressme

Where are your sources to back your ridiculous opinions? You give us nothing.

You are spewing disinformation again and your hatred against someone you know nothing about.

I ask you several posts back to show proof that Jones is trying to become rich from his work.
You have shown us nothing, no sources, only to ignore my questions and spew hateful lies.

What you are doing is not debunking, you are running your own smear campaign against someone who has proven with sciences that the OS is a lie.
I don’t care what you ”think.” Bring some proof some sources to your wild allegation.

You're too lazy to look up or read what is provided. I can't do anything about that.

Where is your rebuttal to the Italian site:

11-settembre.blogspot.com...

It takes a couple hours to read through just the thermite parts.

Did you look up Dr Greening? Did you read ATS member 'pteridine' detailed chemical analyses of Jones?

Have you tried sending Jones's pseudo-paper to anyone with a chemistry background.

I really don't care when hardcore Truthers start frothing and making accusuations.

It's time this "Inside Job" "False Flag" "Controlled Demolition" was addressed for what it is. An 8 years out of date attempt to deflect from the fact that the US was attacked by Muslim terrorists on September 11, 2001.

In broad daylight, thousands of eyewitnesses, most ordinary citizens. Warehouses full of primary documentation, forensic evidence, recordings, testimonies, perpetrator confessions.

Because there is a sub-culture in denial of something that is part of history does not make it go away.

8 years and 4 months later there is not one supportable published paper that proves any of the often ludicrous claims like 'no planes' 'controlled demolition' whatever.

A few whoring academic fruitcakes and college kids trying to cash in on the craze. Not even a blip on the radar screen of history.

None of the thousands of independent writers, investigators, journalists who all would love to nab a Pulitzer finding any of these wild claims are true - have come up with anything.

No whistleblowers, no dying bed confessions - nothing.

Just endless talk, dot-connecting speculations, a mountain of amateur videos with melodramatic music.




[edit on 3-2-2010 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael

You're too lazy to look up or read what is provided. I can't do anything about that.

Insulting me will not make you credible .

11-settembre.blogspot.com...

I would be ashamed to show this web site to anyone. Anyone reading on this website can clearly see this is a disinformation website and holds no credible sources whatsoever.

This is some of the worst disinformation I have ever read and I will not be associated with it.

The website is full of nothing but the writer’s opinions. I do not see any science showing Jones work is a fraud, nothing.

If this is the kind of garbage you support and believe in, then perhaps it best I hit your ignore tab, because we have nothing more to discuses.

This has nothing to do with beliefs it is about people supporting proven lies and calling it truth.







[edit on 3-2-2010 by impressme]

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by mmiichael

 

You're too lazy to look up or read what is provided. I can't do anything about that.

Insulting me will not make you credible .

11-settembre.blogspot.com...

I would be ashamed to show this web site to anyone. Anyone reading on this website can clearly see this is a disinformation website and holds no credible sources whatsoever.

This is some of the worst disinformation I have ever read and I will not be associated with it.

The website is full of nothing but the writer’s opinions. I do not see any science showing Jones work is a fraud, nothing.

If this is the kind of garbage you support and believe in, then perhaps it best I hit your ignore tab, because we have nothing more to discuses.

This has nothing to do with beliefs it is about people supporting proven lies and calling it truth.

You obviously didn't read a word of it. And you obviously know nothing about thermodynamics or chemistry.

I don't have arguments with high school kids.

I'm a CIA paid disinformant. Ignore my posts in future.

reply to post by mmiichael


Good god, I haven't read so much made up, arrogant crap since I've been here. Let's review some of the assumptions you make, simply because many (most) do not agree with you:

I consider my peers people who live and work in the reality based world.

What a self-promoting, ridiculous, blow-hard statement.

We read books...

And, we don't?

...by people who know what they're talking about,

Subjective. Opinionated.

...use credible sources (ie NOT Youtube),

We ALL have #1) used MANY other 'credible' resources than YouTube, but...

#2) YouTube is an excellent resource. Now, if you're speaking of Productions like Zeitgeist, or Loose Change, that while compelling have been shown to have some errors or opinions of their own, then fine, I see where you're going.

But, what about the awesome resource it can be for catching politicians contradicting themselves at press conferences or hearings, news snippits that reveal previous unknowns or surpressed info, and/or other media-pertinent information?

communicate with experts,

And, we haven't? But, just for sh!ts and giggles, please feel free to provide a list of the 'professionals' you have spoken with or even so much as traded emails with (thanks in advance)

...learn how to separate fact from fiction.

Again, a matter of opinion. Both sides claim, successfully and unsuccessfully at times, that they have the Facts that support their cause and negate the others', and that the others' argument [part of] has been 'debunked'.


Neither side can make the claims you are with 100% certainty, so please jump down off your high horse (or, kindly remove your head from its ass, at least)




[edit on 2/4/2010 by SquirrelNutz]

Originally posted by JJay55
Looks like Richard is cashing in on people who want to believe. Next he'll be running for president and having an affair with some hot chick.

Perhaps you missed the part that says open free for the public?

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz
feel free to provide a list of the 'professionals' you have spoken with or even so much as traded emails with (thanks in advance)

Don't even want to justify this with a response.

If you don't believe what I type and want to make some quick money deposit $1,000 or even $10,000 on account with ATS or some mutually agreed third party and I'll do likewise. Then I can sent copies of hundreds of email exchanges over the last 5 years or. If I don't, you've made some fast money.

There is an Internet filled with people who do actual research and investigating. Politics, nationalities and affiliations of all stripes. We're talking a hundred million people, some the leading authorities and experts in their fields. All too often what they have to say is less prominent on a quick Google hunt becaue they don't feel the need for self-promotion with sensation-seeking headlines and content.

Then there is a loud highly visible fringe culture component that feels they have some critical mass because they can call on hundreds of commercial websites and videos, sometimes endorsed by some non-entity opportunistic academic or professional somewhere. They characterisitically are heavy on claims but light on substantiation.

After 8 years with all the complaints about a mythologized Official Story, yet to appear is a coherent Unofficial Story providing documentation and citations, backed by a significant number of recognized professionals.

Global Warming prognostication, whether real or not, managed to gain a credible following worldwide in very little time.

We're still waiting for proof of the fabled Controlled Demolition with something more concrete than a a physics prof at a Mormon College applying a blowtorch to some red oxide paint chips and calling it 'thermite'

Originally posted by impressme
The WTC façade was build like a fish net the planes could hit in any directions at any speed they were design to punch a hole through the whole building, while keeping the rest of the building intact. BTW, this information came from the WTC designer himself.

So you still think a child designed the WTC! That is what is so silly about conspiracy theorists, they get false information into their head, and despite all the evidence that shows their idea is just plain ludicrous and wrong, they continue with their silly idea. The WTC designer never made that claim!

your statement it is a proven lie.

you are the one telling the proven lies here!

It's been demonstrated in detail by independent architects, structural engineers, demolition experts, forensic investigators, worldwide.

Another truther lie, the ct's have proven nothing except that they have no clue what they are talking about!

[edit on 4/2/10 by dereks]

reply to post by mmiichael


You seem to want to ignore the testimony of first-responding firefighters and people inside the buildings who reported unrelated (to the jet impacts) explosions in the lower levels and sub-basements. Maintenance worker William Rodriguez reported an explosion in the sub-basement moments before the impact of the first plane. Other workers witnessed explosions in the sub-basements levels as well, some strong enough to blow people through walls.

Severe damage to the ground level lobby greeted the firefighters as they arrived after the first plane hit, another incongruity for an impact nearly 100 stories above the ground. Many of those tenants who escaped the Towers reported explosions on-going throughout the building as they made their way out, sometimes blocking or collapsing stairwells on levels as low as the eighth floor.

Firefighters on the upper floors reported that the fires were small enough that they could be taken out with two lines. Their radio call for those lines was cut short by massive explosions.

Then we also have comparative evidence, like the Madrid apartment building fire that burned like a bonfire for over twenty-four hours. Yet the structure still stood when the fires were extinguished and it did not collapse despite the additional weight of a huge construction crane on its roof. The Twin Towers collapsed in under two hours with much smaller fires in evidence, the first time any steel-framed high-rise collapsed from fire in history.

Perhaps the reason no credible alternate account of the events of 9-11 has come out is because there has been no credible investigation to reveal the salient details. That's what those in the Truth movement want--a credible investigation. Those in the movement that have offered their speculations on what might have happened have been pounced upon by those of your mind-set as conspiracy theorists and hypothesizers, tags which are obviously true but which fail to answer substantively the questions which give rise to their hypotheses. The 9-11 Commission's report is a self-proclaimed flawed document which was designed to ignore the very questions that made the investigation necessary. The NIST's report even states that the probability that fires caused a pancake collapse of the buildings is low, but offers no alternate explanations.

Your derision of those that fail to withdraw their questions about the events of that day sadly add no weight to your assertions that the official story should be accepted at face value. Your continued angry diatribes against them do however detract from the believability of your arguments, and relegate your posts to the trash-bin of similar emotional outbursts littering this site.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Considering that the number of people with architectural and engineering degrees in the US alone is in the hundreds of thousands, and millions worldwide. Gage isn't exactly setting the professional communities on fire.

Let me guess. You assume every professional who thinks 9/11 was an inside job would have sought this organization out to join it.

Most of them realistically have never read the NIST report, are unaware of the "official" specifics of the collapses, and I wouldn't be surprised if only a minority of them were even aware of WTC7 collapsing, like the rest of the American population.

Originally posted by mmiichael
...
You're too lazy to look up or read what is provided. I can't do anything about that.

Where is your rebuttal to the Italian site:

11-settembre.blogspot.com...

It takes a couple hours to read through just the thermite parts.

...

[edit on 3-2-2010 by mmiichael]

The website you referenced only refutes one part of Jones' thermite evidence. It is quite possible that both stories could be true. Perhaps Jones did misidentify paint chips as particles of thermite--I'm not saying he did, but the possibility exists, and the site's argument is worth considering. That does not address the greater volume of evidence Jones has presented over the last few years: hot yellow liquid metal pouring from the corner of the building, the composition of samples of crud scraped from 9-11 memorial materials, or the huge pools of molten iron (not steel) that remained in the basements of the collapsed towers for months after the attacks.

Even the FEMA report suggests the presence of thermite, although mention of the incendiary is avoided.

The FEMA-sponsored Building Performance Study of 2002 contains evidence of melted steel caused by sulfidation and oxidation. This is found in the "Limited Metallurgical Examination" written by Professor Jonathan Barnett. The NIST report, however, fails to address the evidence of sulfidation found in the structural steel from the WTC.

Barnett examined two pieces of melted steel: one from the WTC 7, the other from the Twin Towers. About the first piece, Barnett wrote: "The thinning of the steel occurred by a high-temperature corrosion due to the combination of oxidation and sulfidation." This was done by "a eutectic mixture of iron, oxygen, and sulfur that liquefied the steel," he concluded.

Barnett found the same sulfidation in the piece of melted steel from the Twin Towers. "The severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of Samples 1 and 2 are a very unusual event," Barnett wrote. "No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified."

Of course, the above is taken from a "truther" website, but the point is interesting. The article goes on to note the contents of the 81st floor of WTC2 as related by a Japanese bank employee. You can read more here: www.rense.com...

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
I don't loathe Gage. I'm actually rather grudgingly impressed by his chutzpah. Nobody ever got poor underestimating the credulousness of a certain type of American, but his readiness to aim really low is nothing short of breathtaking.

He's like one of those old-fashioned snake-oil salesmen. It's quite a feat of presentation.

Strangely enough, modern medical researchers discovered that "snake oil" actually contained ingredients that alleviated the symptoms of the illnesses it was recommended for. You should research your metaphors more carefully.

Likewise, if you are tempted to use the metaphor of medical or scientific quackery, you should know that "quacks" were originally the doctors at the Queen's hospital who insisted on using mercurial compounds for illnesses like syphilis and smallpox (a la Jenner, the father of modern vaccination). The reason for this is the neurological damage caused by mercury resulted in many patients losing their capacity for speech, and that higher function being replaced by flapping hands and a characteristic "quack." Mercury is still a component of childhood and adult vaccines today, but, perversely, those who warn of mercury's dangers are now called quacks.

"Conspiracy theory" and "conspiracy theorist" are other terms which have had their original meanings twisted to meet the needs of those who seek to control that which can be thought through the manipulations of language and meaning. Especially in the case of 9-11, one should remember that a conspiracy is an idea in theory only so long as there is no evidence to support it. Once there is any evidence, even circumstantial evidence, that supports the theory, it becomes a possible conspiracy. With more evidence, it becomes a probable conspiracy. Once the cliche "smoking gun" becomes apparent, it is no longer a theory, no longer a probability, it IS a conspiracy.

Regardless of whether explosives were used to bring down the Twin Towers and Building 7, whether or not a plane actually hit the Pentagon, the evidence that members of the Bush administration conspired to cover up the details of the crime, protect the families of the suspects and shepherd them out of the country, tamper with the evidence, and obstruct the poorly-funded and long overdue investigation of the attacks is unquestionable. And when you have complicity with a terrorist act from the highest office in the land, it is not unreasonable to question every detail of the tale they've woven, in my opinion.

In your case, you seem to have firmly decided that you are completely satisfied that even though the attacks serendipitously destroyed the DOD's ability to account for a 2 trillion dollar accounting discrepancy for the year 2000, destroyed all of the ENRON records needed to further the SEC's case against them, allowed the ram-rodding of legislation like the PATRIOT Act through the Congress, fulfilled the desires of the senior administration officials as stated in PNAC documents, and yielded a multi-billion dollar windfall profit for lease holder Larry Silverman (mind you, this is only the tip of the iceberg for who benefitted from the attacks domestically) there is no reason to suspect any of the details of the story told by these very same individuals.

You obviously have a background in chemistry and physics, to speak with such authority on issues such as the composition of dust samples from Ground Zero. And to verify the work of certain scientists on this matter while disparaging others' work, you obviously have made direct physical examinations of these samples yourself. That would be the only reason I can think of that you feel qualified to deride people whose opinions on these matters differ from your own.

So that we can feel the same conviction and be convinced that your assessments are correct, please illuminate us as to when and where you examined these samples.

Thanks!