Norway Spiral : Case reopened - the anatomy of an event

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Concerning pictures: Move back some posts, and you'll find the OP giving me instructions on how to post pictures.

BTW. And this goes out to ALL on this thread. I don't really know, but maybe I come forth like a self-righteous prick with all my ranting and raving about facts and theories and what-have-you. Well, just to make it clear: I'm very impressed by almost all the replies/posts here, and the authors' command over the english language! FOR RELL! Just don't agree with all of you's all. We probably couldn't be having discussions like these at a randomly chosen diner...unless you bring your laptop.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by brageboogie]

[edit on 3-2-2010 by brageboogie]

If I could figure out how to post pics on ATS, I would provide a number of pictures that demonstrate this fact.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry



LOL, this site does frustrate me in similar ways.

Anyway I am very familiar with relative and true motion (years of applied knowledge as an OS in the Navy) and have seen several missle launches and have been an aviation hobbist since the age of 9. Spinning missles, spewing material is very common and while I think it would be very cool if this spiral issue turned out to be something "black-op" or alien, my personal experience and research just won't let me go there ... yet

Still I would be very interested to see your pics to compare them to pics/graphics that support the missle theory.

thanks

reply to post by PhotonEffect

Photon...pleasure to speak with you again.

No, I'm not necessarily on the offensive, however, I do find that people are easily swayed by theories if numbers are put behind them. Mathematics are always being revised daily and, although I believe that the Universe is primarily defined mathematically, there are still many things that human beings simply cannot understand just by affixing them to numbers. We are still a very youthful civilization and have not perfected physics, astrophysics, or math by any stretch of the imagination.

Again. I have no idea what created the Spiral, but, I am skeptical of someone who jumps the fence and claims absolutes because of their "supposed" calculations. If nothing else though, it does demonstrate his volition and dedication to finding the truth. I will admit that the OP worked extremely hard to make this thread available, and consequently, he gave us all much to consider due to his effort here. But, I will reiterate...from personal experience of watching multiple missile launches in person and having a father who was a former Naval/Industrial Engineer, as well as having multiple friends who engineer for their professions, the missile theory holds no weight for me personally.

Originally posted by brageboogie
reply to post by davesidious

 

YO INSIDER! It is obvious from your categorical use of words like 'is', 'are' etc. That you KNOW what you're talking about. You're obviously employed by both the russian airforce AND by HAARP and EISCAT at a top security level, or else it wouldn't be possible for you to KNOW all these things 100%, as you obviously do. And, since we're at a CONSPIRACY forum, it's obvious that your function here is to be a disinformation agent, with the goal of taking attention AWAY from your evil masters' true goal. Well then, time to spill the beans, mister! What is that goal? Now don't you try to talk your way out of this! Your agenda is outed!

Agreed brageboogie. Although, I have a hard time calling Davsidious a disinfo agent because typically disinfo agents are quite good at presenting arguments, supplying propaganda, and swaying public opinion.

To me, the OP has done a very thorough job in providing info, arguing his case, and speaking with thoughtfulness and intelligence. I don't think that the OP is a disinfo agent by any means, but, this would be the way to successfully infiltrate the masses. Davesidious does the exact opposite. He argues with Ad Homs, gets angry when his argument is destroyed, and never provides info that backs his opinions. After the Ad Homs are shown to be ineffective, then he proceeds to outright make insults and worse.

As I said before on a previous HAARP thread, after presenting him with loads of information that he did not, and had no intention of reading, I realized that the ignore button was the best way to continue posting unmolested while maintaining my overall focus. Consequently, he is the only person that I have ever put on ignore.

You should definitely check out some of the other Sky Spiral threads though. They have all been interesting, and regardless of people's opinions...The sky spiral was an amazing event to top of the end of 2009.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


HEAR HEAR! Although nothing I say should be taken at face value, being that there is no face here to value (yet). I'll wait a little longer before I ignore him though, as his pathological resistance to words and sentiments is rather refreshing. Keeps me on my toes.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by brageboogie]

reply to post by davesidious

You guys have to take into account that new types of technology exists and that we do not know the specs. even if we know it exists. EISCAT or HAARP may say their operating power specs are such an such but do you really think they are going to tell you what they could or couldn't do? just because they don't announce it to the world doesn't mean they can't. Also why can't we use a big swath of hot energetic plasma to knock down a missile? you could do a lot with just heating the air infront of it.

Anybody ever done research on Phase Conjugation/Inferometry of electromagnetic waves, I have only skimmed the surface and I think this is used by EISCAT or HAARP to create the plasma/ionic heating and other things. I think tesla said it is possible couple with the earths natural currents, but I am not sure how exactly that works, maybe like radio carrier waves?

Phase conjugation with light replicates and sends an incident wave it exactly back along the wave path to the source. I think the source could be replicated using a computer and Haarp could create any electromagnetic wave source, light, microwaves, heat, ELF etc.. originating at any point, anywhere, but I can't proove it....

en.wikipedia.org...

I think the LRAD and Holosonic devices use kinda the same technique but with sound. Not sure, hard to find this kinda stuff, well solid stuff anyways....

"if we know how the air affects the sound waves, we can predict exactly what new frequencies (sounds) will be added into the sound wave by the air itself. An ultrasonic (beyond the range of human hearing) sound wave can be sent into the air with sufficient volume to cause the air to create these new frequencies. Since we cannot hear the ultrasonic sound, we only hear the new sounds that are formed by the non-linear action of the air."

-I pulled this from this site
www.internationalrobotics.com...
after a quick search on holosonics

peace

[edit on 3-2-2010 by smurfy]

I've posted this link on the Bulava missile before in another thread, but I'm posting it again here as it should have some relevance. If this missile is classified, then this link comes to about as much info as you can get about the missile and its' coloured history. It may help you make your mind up as to the Norway event.

www.astronautix.com...

You will see from the text that it is a new project, and likely replaced another new project. Also, from the given info it might even be possible to say whether or not the launch was a failure. However to be sure one would have to know exactly if the test was for range and altitude, or just testing for range, (some of the tests seem to indicate just altitude tests, after undersea launches) The whole system seems to be badly behind.







[edit on 3-2-2010 by smurfy]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


do some research

HAARP approaches the study of the ionosphere by following in the footsteps of an ionospheric heater called EISCAT near Tromsø, Norway. There, scientists pioneered exploration of the ionosphere by perturbing it with radio waves in the 2-10 MHz range, and studying how the ionosphere reacts. HAARP performs the same functions but with more power, and a more flexible and agile HF beam. en.wikipedia.org...

and where is troms0 ? ding ding ring ring i hear a whistle blowing ! !

follow the blue spiral beam ! aka yellow brick road !

the spiral is right above this site !

files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
[edit on 3-2-2010 by Wolfenz]

[edit on 3-2-2010 by Wolfenz]

reply to post by PhotonEffect

Also, to address the other part of your statement about me not providing any facts. If you go back and read when I first started posting on this particular thread, I clearly stated that I had no idea as to what caused the spiral. NONE. But, it is my BELIEF that it was not a missile.

I even stated that I could not PRETEND to have that knowledge given the fact that we are discussing this far after the night of the spiral. So, since I even stated that I do not have an argument, I'm wondering why you're attempting to create one. At this point, I am outwardly stating my opinion which is not outside of the boundaries of ATS. Given the fact that I've never seen a missile behave in the manner of the sky spiral before, it does not fit in with my experience of seeing them tested. Nonetheless, I usually don't provide evidence in threads unless I am 100% sure of my stance.

For instance: On a separate thread concerning HAARP, I provided oodles of information because it was something that I had studied for over 13 years. I forged my theory and backed it with evidence. Consequently though, Since "Sky Spirals" seem to be a relatively new phenomenon, there isn't a load of information out there that would make ANYONE an expert. That includes YOU, ME, PHAGE, THE OP, AND THE REMAINDER OF THE 6 BILLION PEOPLE ON THE PLANET...Just an observation there.

So, at this point...every bit of information out there that's been provided about the sky spiral is pure speculation no matter how much math you apply to it.



[edit on 3-2-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


EM,

If I may engage you for a moment so as I can try to understand why you don't think the spiral was caused by a missile.

You seem like intelligent person and someone who would be able to explain your rationale and logic further, as to why a rocket couldn't have caused this.

So, I should ask you first, because I'm not clear on this-- (super cool looking spiral aside.)..do you believe that a missile was test fired that day by the Russians?

And if not what would be your reasoning for this belief?

If so then we can continue on to my next question....

[edit on 3-2-2010 by PhotonEffect]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry
No not much info on spirals, although one military poster has said it is quite common in missile firings he/she has seen, that's why I posted a link to the Bulava in the hope that somebody can get something out of it. Try and have a read of it rather than speculating by arguement.

If it was a missile malfunction, wouldn't the hot smoke rise and destroy a smoke spiral like that?

reply to post by PhotonEffect

My first reason for questioning whether this was a failed Russian missile was because of Russia's initial denial of involvment. According to the information, this spiral happened on the day that Obama accepted the Nobel Peace Prize. Why on earth would Russia be testing a missile (an instrument of war) on the day Obama was to accept a prize of peace??? The Russians aren't stupid, an act like that could very well symbolize aggression towards the U.S. especially on such a celebrated day for Obama. And then, why on earth after Russia's initial denial would they decide to change their tune? Anytime something like this happens, it automatically causes me to raise a brow.

Watch this link all the way through. The only information useful here is the fact that Brian Williams states that "Russia is denying involvement."
www.youtube.com...
Then read this: It tells the tale pretty well.
www.dailymail.co.uk...

Now, out of the many missiles that I have seen tested at CRANE (NWSC) Indiana, not a single one of them had a lingering blue streak. I'm not saying that some don't display them, but, from my perspective...that seems to be an anomaly. Second, I have seen them fail in a corkscrew motion, but, I have never seen them leave 100% clearly defined concentric circles sprawling from the center. Usually when a missile fails, it will corkscrew out into an imperfect spiral with the exhaust leaving a white dissipating trail. When the Norway Sky Spiral faded out, it turned black from the inside out leaving yet another perfect circle in the center. It literally had a perfect "black hole" appearance. Often when watching this, I don't think people appreciate the type of geometry that they are witnessing.

This is something that I have never seen before and it defies my current knowledge of missile flight behavior.

These are the reasons why I am skeptical of this being some sort of "failed" missile, or anything related to that idea.





[edit on 3-2-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

Originally posted by Wolfenz
reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

 

do some research

HAARP approaches the study of the ionosphere by following in the footsteps of an ionospheric heater called EISCAT near Tromsø, Norway. There, scientists pioneered exploration of the ionosphere by perturbing it with radio waves in the 2-10 MHz range, and studying how the ionosphere reacts. HAARP performs the same functions but with more power, and a more flexible and agile HF beam. en.wikipedia.org...

and where is troms0 ? ding ding ring ring i hear a whistle blowing ! !

follow the blue spiral beam ! aka yellow brick road !

the spiral is right above this site !

files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
[edit on 3-2-2010 by Wolfenz]

[edit on 3-2-2010 by Wolfenz]

I have no idea what you are talking about. NONE. I wish that I could respond to this statement adequately, but, since I have no idea where it came from or in what context, I will just have to say...you need to take your meds.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
reply to post by PhotonEffect

 

If you go back and read when I first started posting on this particular thread, I clearly stated that I had no idea as to what caused the spiral. NONE. But, it is my BELIEF that it was not a missile.

Actually no, in your first post you proceeded to flame the OP for using charts, graphs, statistics, and math for trying to triangulate the origin of the spiral, which I and many others feel he did quite satisfactorily. You then proceeded to claim how you have all these friends who are engineers who don't think this was caused by a Russian rocket... so they must be right... oh and that you didn't care about any of this anyway

BTW- the only reason why I responded to you in the first place was because of that post by you
.

I even stated that I could not PRETEND to have that knowledge given the fact that we are discussing this far after the night of the spiral. So, since I even stated that I do not have an argument, I'm wondering why you're attempting to create one.

Wrong again Im afraid. You did initiate this argument EM. Refer back to your original post in this thread. You thought it necessary to speak on behalf of the OP and the entire ATS membership by claiming that this is too old of a story to discuss any longer and that nothing will become of it, and that it was all way above our heads anyway.

Given the fact that I've never seen a missile behave in the manner of the sky spiral before, it does not fit in with my experience of seeing them tested. Nonetheless, I usually don't provide evidence in threads unless I am 100% sure of my stance.

What sort of missiles are you referring to here EM? Bulavas? any ICBMs types?
Like the Minuteman II? Any shot from a submarine? Which ones have you seen?

For instance: On a separate thread concerning HAARP, I provided oodles of information because it was something that I had studied for over 13 years. I forged my theory and backed it with evidence.

HAARP as it pertains to this case EM? I'm going to go out on a limb by saying that HAARP had zero to do with the spiral. In your 13 years of studying, has HAARP ever been able to create a display (or any visible display for that matter) like the one seen from Norway?

Consequently though, Since "Sky Spirals" seem to be a relatively new phenomenon, there isn't a load of information out there that would make ANYONE an expert. That includes YOU, ME, PHAGE, THE OP, AND THE REMAINDER OF THE 6 BILLION PEOPLE ON THE PLANET...Just an observation there.

Again, I don't think you're in a position to speak for an entire population. Or are you?

So, at this point...every bit of information out there that's been provided about the sky spiral is pure speculation no matter how much math you apply to it.

So let me get this right EM, your saying there's absolutely no evidence at all of this having been caused by a Russian test missile. It's just all speculation? So the Russians having pre-warned about testing missiles in the White Sea on 12/9 and then claiming responsibility for it on 12/10 is just speculation?

We also have a clear and distinct rocket exhaust plume that is clearly connected to the spirals... it's not debatable.

And as the OP was so wonderfully able to show here in this thread, the origin of that plume and those spirals looks to have originated from the White Sea.

reply to post by PhotonEffect

No, actually I provided you 3 links (only one of which that I agreed with) after you asked for them which also came after my admission that it was my opinion that the sky spiral was not caused by a missile. Go back and read. Its all here.

And, you can continue this all you would like. The only struggle here is with you. My opinion won't change on this no matter how hard you desperately try to engage, attack, insult or berate me. And as I said, I am openly expressing my opinion.

The OP did the same thing on another thread recently in which he was "commended" for mathematically supporting the "opposite view." And truly, there's nothing, other than a flip flopping media, that distinctively states that the sky spiral was caused by a missile. Since this certainly appears to be no missile that I have ever witnessed, I am ruling it out as an option.

So, until we all have a massive streak of sky spirals that can be studied over and over and replicated in a laboratory environment, I'm afraid that there are no experts here.

And yeah...on the sky spiral, I think that I can speak on behalf of the entire population since there have only been two ever recorded on film. LOL.

By the way? Did I say that HAARP had anything to do with the spiral? NO I DIDN'T. Good try though. I merely said that on a separate thread that had to do with HAARP, I provided information. You are quite the clever one aren't you??? You're really looking for a fight. But, there's no fight here. Its all you.

Good day to you.


[edit on 3-2-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Yes, I'm not surprised really by the Russians launching a missile the morning before Obama is accept a nobel peace prize, are you? Although your article states that they provided Norway with a formal warning a week ahead of time.

Now why would Russia deny it initially. My guess is, as your article points out

"The Bulava, despite being crucial to Russia's plans to revamp its weaponry, is becoming an embarrassment after nine failed launches in 13 tests, prompting calls for it to be scrapped."

Now I'd venture to guess that most people here probably had no idea what a Bulava even was before this event, (I know I didnt) or that Russia had tested them 13 times before. And that 9 of them failed... I'm sure thats just how Russia would prefer to have it...

But enter huge light spiral show, and now the whole world knows your missile program sucks... if youre a superpower like Russia and intent on developing the most advanced weaponry, you probably would rather not advertise to the whole world that your new fancy weapons are duds.

Its not like they held out for days either. I believe they admitted to it within 24 hours of the event.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Thanks EM,

My pointing out that you've been studying HAARP for 13 years should put you in position to inform people that HAARP can't cause these things to happen.

And yes only two links worked. The first one I said made assumptions that I believe were incorrect and the other one was of David Wilcoks take on this whole thing who IMO is full of crap most of the time and does not constitute evidence.

But anyway, you are perfectly in your right to believe what you wish and make opinions about it. I won't try to stop you.

Cheers

reply to post by PhotonEffect



[edit on 3-2-2010 by brageboogie]

[edit on 3-2-2010 by brageboogie]