Military Professionals Dispute 911

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

The really interesting part about Col. Nelson, is that he is retired and had absolutely NOTHING to do with the investigation at the Pentagon. No access the the crash site, no access to the reports, no access to anything OTHER than what he read on the Internet.

I'm sorry am I missing something here? You seem to have lots of answers on what happened 9/11 did you help with the Investigation? Were you at the pentagon after the plane crash? I have repeatedly seen you attacking Gen. Stubblebine... He graduated from Columbia university with a Masters degree, he rose to the rank of Major General, he was in command of the US Army Intelligence and Security Command for years, and now he is speaking out against the lies and corruption of our government.

What have you done?

reply to post by electricveins

Gen. Stubblebine... He graduated from Columbia university with a Masters degree, he rose to the rank of Major General, he was in command of the US Army Intelligence and Security Command for years, and now he is speaking out against the lies and corruption of our government.

Which means precisely squat in regards to Flight 77. He looked at some photos and decided he didnt think it was an airplane...and people like you swallow it hook, line, and sinker because he has a Masters degree. So far, the military professionals being quoted on this thread....with the exception of a certain female colonel....weren't at the Pentagon that day or did they help clean up afterwards.

The list of officers that dont agree with either Nelson or Stumblebum is a lot longer than the list that does.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
The list of officers that dont agree with either Nelson or Stumblebum is a lot longer than the list that does.

Considering the media and everyone else would have been set up intentionally to have been misled from day 1, that is hardly surprising.

If Northwoods was carried out, 99% of America would believe Cuba was responsible at first, too.

But for how long would that charade go on? Even with organized disinfo to counter the truth.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


You never answered my question. Were you at the Pentagon on 9/11? By your logic anyone who was not there does not know what happened. Were you there? If not we have a bit of a paradox...

reply to post by electricveins


Don't expect a reply sir

Ole Swampy's world is collapseing , its a tough moment for him now

reply to post by sciemus


I was following the links you posted and came upon this video:



I was leaning towards not being an airliner before, but this looks pretty good. Can both sides please offer polite analysis.

Thank you

reply to post by electricveins


Either you havent read all of the posts or you have forgotten some of what was posted.

However, this paragraph is a reasonable summation of my point about those two officers.

Colonel Nelson, may indeed have been an expert in accident investigations. However, without him being present at the Pentagon site, he is not qualified to rule on what did or did not hit the Pentagon. All he can do is offer his opinion (like the rest of us). But for him to say there wasnt an airliner, when so many of the pictures DO show wreckage of an airliner (as do the reports from the people on the scene) calls into question his....experience

Was I there that day? No. Were people there that I know and trust? Yes, and their qualifications in aviation, meet or exceed Colonel Nelson's and far outweigh the "I can walk through walls" ruminations of Gen Stubblebine.

reply to post by Sean48


Ole Swampy isnt chained to his computer either.

It is touching that so many of you worry about my computer usage though.

Hello,
Frankly, I have come to the conclusion that the events of September 11, 2001 were perpetrated by the real terrorists hidden by the 911 commision report. Riddled with too many flaws, a travesty of justice.


Isn't it convenient to use the date numerically significant to an emergency phone service? Yes, the terrorists planned it to go down on that date, for the psychological benefit/detriment; depending upon who you run with.

I'm really getting frustrated by all the division this subject is continuing to cause amongst us Americans. Some see the writing on the wall, some see the elephant in the room, some can't determine fiction from reality, and some are beyond anything I can care to discern; we are divided on the issue. The terrorists have won this battle. And the criminal war on terror wages on.

That seems to me to be one of the benefits of attacking us, to cause in-fighting. We're all patriotic, we're just not united. Not that I'm a magnificent host or not, I will not break bread with any man who fails to see this grim reality; 9-11 is still a hoax. One day, even you debunkers will be considered a terrorist. The writing is on the wall. How many rights will you allow to be stripped of you before you wise-up?

Originally posted by seethelight
reply to post by Sean48

 

Sorry, how many of these people actually examined the wreckage.

I have seen the wing marks on the Pentagon.

yes you have but no one else has including the military officials who were quoted


i feel like we are talking about a ufo and someone is swearing they saw one when no one else has a clue what they are talking about



but i think i just figured out how to solve the problem with the official story believers


just dont reply to them, dont talk to them, dont discuss topics with them, if enough people do that, maybe they will go away and a real investigation can happen


i know usually the saying is ignoring the problem wont make it go away

but with this situation, maybe just maybe it will

i mean if there is no one to argue back with them, what will they do with their lives?

maybe just maybe they will actually look at the evidence that is there and see how ridiculous the story seems

[edit on 1-2-2010 by Dramey]

I still don't see anything to counter Aaron Russo's testimony. That testimony provided motive. Without a motive there would be no conspiracy. Think about that for a second. Before people can believe that 9-11 was an inside job (and before I could begin to belive it myself) you have to find people that would benefit from such a thing for one. Secondly you have to find out how they would benefit.

I think I found that link when I came across Aaron Russo's testimony. It blew my mind (not that I believe everything 100%, I'm still a little in shock). What further blows my mind is that nobody has anything bad to say about Russo, nor can they denouce what was stated to be a fact:

The owners of the Federal Reserve profited from 9-11, the Afghan Invasion, the Iraqi Invasion, and the continuing occupation via lending money to the government +++ at intrest +++. Russo talks about a never ending war on terrorism... as in they propagate that terrorism through a continuation of false flag attacks. Just look at MK-Ultra, could that be what he is talking about?

I am not saying that the owners of the Federal Reserve DID or are DOING this. I am saying Aaron Russo really stirred the ants nest in my mind... and in my excessive digging and searching for truth I found a potential conspiracy theory that explains everything (in my mind).

But I could be wrong. I would just really like someone to show me how I am, because I would really love the warm and fuzzy feeling I used to have back in my life. The feeling I got from 'feeling' like everything was ok, and everything was going to be ok. Yea... I don't have that in my life anymore and it sucks.

reply to post by Sean48
Anyway you look at, it's all too late to do anything about it. We will continue to talk circles around each other for the next hundred, maybe thousands of years. This was the real birth of the NWO and at the same time should have been "We, the People's" call to revolution to bring down high politics. We just don't need them anymore, or as it seems just business as usual. A nesseccary evil which in fact does reduce and controls evil in the world. Governments are evil, don't you agree? Now go back to work and continue buying your material possessions!!!

Originally posted by pianopraze
reply to post by sciemus

 

I was following the links you posted and came upon this video:

I was leaning towards not being an airliner before, but this looks pretty good. Can both sides please offer polite analysis.

Thank you

Interesting that nobody wants to discuss the video, where are the people who said there was no debris, or explanation for the ground not being marred etc? People seem to put immense effort into theorizing and proving a conspiracy, while not even willing to consider the slightest chance that there is no conspiracy and sh*t just happens.

Can anyone point out any flaws in the logic or calculated trajectories of the simulation? Why is it so much easier to just insist "it was a global hawk/missile/bomb" and discount all logic and eyewitness accounts?

Note that I am not saying that either side is right, we will probably never know the truth until enough years pass that the govt declassifies the info, and by then we wont care anymore, as we will probably have bigger fish to fry.

EDIT: Some may find this interesting, the DFDR report, including the data graphs: www.ntsb.gov...

[edit on 1-2-2010 by Blazer]

Originally posted by Blazer

Originally posted by pianopraze
reply to post by sciemus

 

I was following the links you posted and came upon this video:

I was leaning towards not being an airliner before, but this looks pretty good. Can both sides please offer polite analysis.

Thank you

Interesting that nobody wants to discuss the video, where are the people who said there was no debris, or explanation for the ground not being marred etc? People seem to put immense effort into theorizing and proving a conspiracy, while not even willing to consider the slightest chance that there is no conspiracy and sh*t just happens.

Can anyone point out any flaws in the logic or calculated trajectories of the simulation? Why is it so much easier to just insist "it was a global hawk/missile/bomb" and discount all logic and eyewitness accounts?

Note that I am not saying that either side is right, we will probably never know the truth until enough years pass that the govt declassifies the info, and by then we wont care anymore, as we will probably have bigger fish to fry.

EDIT: Some may find this interesting, the DFDR report, including the data graphs: www.ntsb.gov...

[edit on 1-2-2010 by Blazer]

ok lets talk about not just the video but the situation

whether or not it did, lets just say a plane did hit the pentagon

how many cameras would have caught at least part of the situation on tape?

id say at least a few dozen given the area in question and the high amount of security that has to be in place in the area

so a plane hit the pentagon, just like we have seen happen to the 2 wtc's


why would they, or what would the reasoning be, for the government or fbi or whoever it was to confiscate all the videos and keep them from being shown to the public

if it is the plane in question and there is nothing conspiratorial going on

why wont they release other tapes?

why is there at least one frame missing in the clip they have released?

why do high level experienced pilots say that such maneuvers would be so hard for the way the planes were flown into these structures?


who knows, maybe it was a plane, maybe it just wasnt the plane they said it was maybe it was some rogue military plane of some kind

who knows it is all left up to speculation

and it is all left up to speculation by the government

if they didnt want speculation, all they would have to do is release any of the videos showing the actual plane hitting the building, or not even show it to the public, just speak about having it at least instead of being as shady as they are regarding the subject



to me, its impossible to say a plane didnt hit the pentagon yet, because there is no proof

no proof of anything really so pretty much everything is speculation

but with such a high level event, why would the government leave such vague details open to speculation for no valid reason?

i think the 9/11 "movement" would be much more successful if speculation was put aside and people just start asking questions about things that cant be denied and questions that cant be skirted or called crazy


i mean i wonder, has anyone asked a U.S. president about these tapes? either obama or bush? i would be very interested to see what a president would say

where are these tapes


on top of that, how come (As far as i know) there has been no footage released from the airports the planes took off from, how come we dont see footage of these terrorists in the airports (there must have been security footage)

but even relatively small things like that are ignored when this is quite a long time later and a very major event, you would think such a gigantic world changing event would be a bit more documented in todays age of video everything

I have never claimed to be very bright, but there is one thing which has botherd me ever since the pentigon 911 tape was released. I know many more people than me have noticed the "time and date stamp" on this video was incorrect.

The event took place on Sept. 11, the date on the video is Sept 12. I have never been sure about the time.

I have had some people say that "it was just an oversite". Well! This should not be something left to a simple oversite. An official statement several months after an event should be handled a little better than this.

I would just like to get a reasonable explaination; is that asking to much?

Originally posted by Blazer

Originally posted by pianopraze
reply to post by sciemus

 

I was following the links you posted and came upon this video:

I was leaning towards not being an airliner before, but this looks pretty good. Can both sides please offer polite analysis.

Thank you

Interesting that nobody wants to discuss the video, where are the people who said there was no debris, or explanation for the ground not being marred etc? People seem to put immense effort into theorizing and proving a conspiracy, while not even willing to consider the slightest chance that there is no conspiracy and sh*t just happens.

Can anyone point out any flaws in the logic or calculated trajectories of the simulation? Why is it so much easier to just insist "it was a global hawk/missile/bomb" and discount all logic and eyewitness accounts?

Note that I am not saying that either side is right, we will probably never know the truth until enough years pass that the govt declassifies the info, and by then we wont care anymore, as we will probably have bigger fish to fry.

EDIT: Some may find this interesting, the DFDR report, including the data graphs: www.ntsb.gov...

[edit on 1-2-2010 by Blazer]

Top Guns said they could not do what those 'amateurs' did. So if a plane did in fact do it, your still going to have the theorists that question that an advanced autopilot program guided the plane. However, as you can see from pictures before the Pentagon collapsed, there was nothing but a hole, with no wing damage or wings lying outside from being stripped off.

If there were people out there that really did conspire and pull off an inside 9-11 job... can't you imagine they are going to make some hardcore propaganda video's? Of course they would do that if 9-11 was an inside job.

Why did the FBI confiscate 80 video's if there was nothing to hide? Thats called a conspiracy.

Your video talks about major and minor wing damage at 4:07. No kidding there is some minor damage, I can't even pick it out. Now if the building resisted the wings, the wings would have gotten stripped off and would be lying outside pentagon. So um... where are the wings, wing tips, anything.



If a commercial airliner really did hit the Pentagon you would have seen them dragging the parts out. Like the jet engines. They would have made an effort to show the people evidence because even when there isnt a conspiracy, there will be people thinking there is. However, don't confuse that with this scenerio. There are a lot of things that do not logically 'click' into place. You have to be living in a box, only getting one side of the story for the propaganda to make sense. Its psychological warfare, its mass control via the media. Just tell me why Bilderberg has never been on the news, oh its because they own the news... gotcha.

Nobody is saying that an aircraft did not knock over light poles... who knows what kind of aircraft Area 51 has, and what kind of guidance system are on those aircraft. You know the President has no say on what goes on at Area 51. Do some research and youll find its connected to what Aaron Russo talks about.

Again Top Guns (Fighter Jet Pilots) say they could not have done what 'rank amateurs' did. So how did rank amateurs do it?

We haven't even gotten into the trade towers. You know who Silversteen leased those towers from? You know who founded them? It all goes back to what Aaron Russo talks about.

Before anyone can logically consider a conspiracy of such mass proportions they have to look at who would profit, and specifically how they would profit. If you have not watched that video of Aaron Russo then it might be a lot harder to see my perspective. The vid is very 'educational'.

reply to post by Bm2211

I would beg to dissagree.

It is never to late to set the record straight. Be it current events or ancient history.

The best reason for getting to the truth in this instance is the possibility of actually prosecuting those responsible while they are still alive. Of course, if they die first we could only impact how they will be viewed by those they leave behind.

Presonally, I can not think of a "proper punishment" for those who are truely responsible for such a terrible act; but, if they are allowed to get away with such actions, we will all pay a price for not doing what we can to bring them to justice.

This photo shows why an aluminum airframe of an airliner would have never made it through the 3 rings of the Pentagon.


i114.photobucket.com...

reply to post by WarloriousCreed


WOW

the video you posted NEEDS to be seen by everyone

i know i havent seen video yet from that close up to the pentagon and i am going to be honest

from what i saw in that video of the ACTUAL crash site reasonably close up, there was NO plane there whatsoever

i dont even feel how that could be debated

all it takes is a internet search to look at picture from other plane crashes

sure they may have been different circumstances but the planes never just vaporized into thin air and to be fully honest, i saw NOTHING in that video that would make me think a plane was in that rubble, at least not a plane that was the size of the plane in question


the only way the plane was in that picture, is if it pierced thru the pentagon in like one piece and had the debris collapse perfectly onto the remains, outside of the crash site, i saw nothing, no tail end no nothing



yet if im wrong, it could all be proven in one simple motion, releasing ANY other video that shows the incident taking place, OR even showing the removed frames from the video that was released but watching the video from that post, no way in my mind a planes in there

reply to post by Dramey

yes you have but no one else has including the military officials who were quoted

I wouldnt say no one else has

www.fire.nist.gov...

Page 25. Unless of course seethelight was the photographer for the report and then he obliterated the marks before anyone else saw them.......