!ALERT! Changes to the Mud-Pit coming soon. !ALERT!

Originally posted by Banshee
People, please.
The mudpit is a privledge, not a right.
If a privledge is being abused, things need to be evaluated.

-B.

Hey look everybody, it's what the pretty policeman says when he pulls you over.

"...driving is a privilege, not a right..." then I say, "...I am not driving, I'm traveling..."

So screw this, I am NOT paying for Mudpit! What reason? Why pay for it? !@(*$ that.

I see some consequences for idea this coming on the horizon, i.e. topics in the wrong forums.

ditto to KayEm's post (forgot to get quote sorry) but yes, it seems rather silly since the mud-pit is one of ATS's rare jewels that makes it so special; keeping it hidden from search engines is fair enough...but charging as much as RATS will certainly put people off. sorry S.O, but this is a bad idea.

Originally posted by Agent47
In the spirit of denying ignorance I have to ask what the mud pit adds to this mantra?

but you could also say that, due to painfully obvious left/right republicrat biased involved in the debates, people who read the arguments in the 'pit' see how futile and corrupt both sides are.It's good. 3500? hm.

Originally posted by Chevy
I personally think the board is run by screaming republicans and they don't like my witty posts and continually calling Bush an idiot.... lol
Sooooooo its a conspiracy to keep me out..

Right, chevy, SO came up with this plan JUST to keep YOU out...I don't THINK so.

Personally, I think it's a great idea. It'll keep out trolls, won't be indexed in Google (yeah). It was well worth 500 points to see TC and Colonel do their thing!

Originally posted by LadyCool21 it seems rather silly since the mud-pit is one of ATS's rare jewels that makes it so special;

Well... those "jewels" are getting all over the bottom of my shoes. The tone and style of the pit is not the tone and style of ATS. We've been getting over 100 members a day, and many new users are wandering into the pit, unaware of the "more intense" nature of the discussion, and getting flamed and disgruntled with ATS, not realizing the pit is different. So. A nominal fee. If you're an active member, this should be a problem. And after all, you still do realize it's 100% free... correct?

Correct.
And you do still realise that the entrance is plastered up to the eyeballs with warning signs?

I'm not disputing the fact that ATS is the best discussion board on the web, and that Simon has created a wonderful thing by keeping it free, spoiling us ATSers. HOWEVER I am implying that the mud-pit is a a rarity, because such freedom of speech is not usually allowed on discussion boards; and yes it needs to be monitored carefully as always...but it just seems silly to 'charge' 2,500 points for something that alot of members want to do (hence why they come here) and that is to give their opinions on political matters without fear of being kicked out.

500 points is O.K if this is the plan, and I've 'purchased' access to this, but you can't use the 'it's free' card for everything, since we know this and appreciate it ALOT. But for some people newbies that can't be as 'regular' as they would like, or for someone who just wants to post on the pit occationally, or reply to a thread which they have taken a particular intrest to, that amount of points is alot. (Espeically since we now have the wonderful webmail, which alot are saving up for at 15,000)

Wouldn't putting any price on entering the Mud Pit keep out search engines?

If that is the case I recommend either lower the price to say, 50 ATS points or keeping it at 500.

Raising the price to 3500, the same as RATS, implies that the mud pit is as important and interesting/special as RATS. Which I sincerely hope is not the case.

I realize my opinion counts for nothing here but I still voice my objections at putting such a hefty price on the Mud Pit.

Originally posted by LadyCool21
Correct.
And you do still realise that the entrance is plastered up to the eyeballs with warning signs?

I'm not disputing the fact that ATS is the best discussion board on the web, and that Simon has created a wonderful thing by keeping it free, spoiling us ATSers. HOWEVER I am implying that the mud-pit is a a rarity, because such freedom of speech is not usually allowed on discussion boards; and yes it needs to be monitored carefully as always...but it just seems silly to 'charge' 2,500 points for something that alot of members want to do (hence why they come here) and that is to give their opinions on political matters without fear of being kicked out.

500 points is O.K if this is the plan, and I've 'purchased' access to this, but you can't use the 'it's free' card for everything, since we know this and appreciate it ALOT. But for some people newbies that can't be as 'regular' as they would like, or for someone who just wants to post on the pit occationally, or reply to a thread which they have taken a particular intrest to, that amount of points is alot. (Espeically since we now have the wonderful webmail, which alot are saving up for at 15,000)

lets try to put this into perspective...

ATS was around a VERY long time before the mud pit.

ATS's motto and goal is to..."deny ingorance".

some people like to see the mud pit as a place to spew their venom hatred and basically any ignorant thought that enters their brain that is politically related. in turn we have others who bash them and then present their own not so unique brand of ignorance at the same time. the purpose of the mud pit was to allow a more relaxed atmosphere to discuss political matters, not to bash insult name call and start a gazillion "omg bush got attacked by a bug! roofles i'm kewlies for making fun of him" threads. it went from a place with relaxed rules about discussing politics to a "you're a pregunant and you're going to burn in hell" and "you're a demoncrat and you're an idiot!" bash fest, those who didnt like it complained, we noticed a lot of new members would go right to the pit, get the impression that the rest of the board is like this and we've seen many pit like threads started in forums where such behavior is clearly not allowed. so in order to help ensure that newer members get a better idea of what we do here and what this board is about SO did this to set a better example. we are to learn, debate, exchange ideas and mentally grow as a people, not to bash someone else for their views or to make fun of bush or kerry or clinton or who ever it is people hate.

so as you can see there is more than one or two reasons for this. people were not simply giving their opinions on political matters, in fact that took a back seat for several people and took the forum and the board down a notch. it looked like a contest who could look the most ignorant by making wider and wider generalizing remarks and statements. wanna blame somone? blame those who ruined it for everyone else. blame those who felt they had this right to post anyway they pleased because they hated bush or kerry or simply because they didnt like someone else's view. if people didnt act like children they wouldnt be treated like children. yes it sucks for everyone else who does play by the rules and i dont like to see good people get punished but their wasnt much choice. MAYBE if things change SO might change his policy towards the forum. but that depends on how people act in regards to his decision and how they act in the pit.

they can fuss whine complain and continue to do what they're doing or everyone can accept it for the way it is and deal with it in a mature manner and try to lead by example on how to act, not how not to act.

Well instead of putting a price on it why not put something in the "New menbers please read this important imformation" link at the top of each member's control panel. Something that might say "the mud pit is not the first place you should go because it does not reflect the rest of this web site"

What is going to happen is people are going to start bringing their political views into other forums because they don't want to spend thier precious points on the mud pit and so you are going to get MORE of a problem with cussing and bad flaming posts in other threads and this is already a problem, is it not?

I give this about a month before it reverts back to normal and the administration decides to try another tactic.

Originally posted by NothingMakesSense
Well instead of putting a price on it why not put something in the "New menbers please read this important imformation" link at the top of each member's control panel. Something that might say "the mud pit is not the first place you should go because it does not reflect the rest of this web site"

What is going to happen is people are going to start bringing their political views into other forums because they don't want to spend thier precious points on the mud pit and so you are going to get MORE of a problem with cussing and bad flaming posts in other threads and this is already a problem, is it not?

I give this about a month before it reverts back to normal and the administration decides to try another tactic.

SO has tried mass U2U's...people complain about that. he's tried putting important links at the top of the page...people complained or completely ignore them.

and i think he's making it pretty clear the behavior that happened before isnt going to be tolerated. so doing it in other forums let alone that one is a BAD idea IMO.

flaming isnt allowed already in the rest of the forums but there was more wiggle room in the pit. people took this for granted and now he's clamping down on it. the warning at the top of every page in the pit now says all personal attacks and flames will not be tolerated. and people were already posting their political views in forums they didnt belong in already. care to guess why? you'll either deny it or you wont figure it out...

SO is making it clear that you dont act anyway you want just because you're given some freedom not normally seen on other boards. obviously tact respect and restraint are not some people's strong suits. again blame them, not SO , not the staff, but those who ruined it for everyone else.


whatever happens he'll deal with it. one way or another...SO has a way of working things out.

i think its sad to see so many focus on one small part of the board that has offered the least amount of information. i think its sad to see so many concerned about not being able to post willy nilly in a forum that really hasnt done much for this board to begin with. so many other forums on this board and people can only think of the one that has done almost nothing but breed spread and perpetuate ignorance.

Look... you do not want me to get ugly! This action has "saved" the MudPit. Due to some rather intense flaming in some threads, there was serious thought about removing it. Hopefully, this measure keeps it on ATS. [Edited on 29-5-2004 by SkepticOverlord]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Look... you do not want me to get ugly!

lol too late, you're already there!

(runs and hides)

How on earth will it 'save' it? People will just 'buy' access and do the same thing.
And saying that newbies go onto the Mud Pit and think it reflects the whole of the site...well as I said before it's plastered up to the eyeballs in warnings, so they'd have to be really REALLY dim and ignorant not to realise it; therefore not the type of people that should belong to ATS.
The mud-pit is a place to let off steam which would not be acceptable in other forums, having it restricted will only allow it to flow and seep even further into the rest of ATS. And if this is really going to happen, why on earth make it so 'expensive' ? Surely 500 points would be sufficient?

Originally posted by LadyCool21
... saying that newbies go onto the Mud Pit and think it reflects the whole of the site...well as I said before it's plastered up to the eyeballs in warnings, so they'd have to be really REALLY dim and ignorant not to realise it ... having it restricted will only allow it to flow and seep even further into the rest of ATS. And if this is really going to happen, why on earth make it so 'expensive' ? Surely 500 points would be sufficient?

Whereas I understand the reasons for Skeptic's actions with regards the trolls and possible newbies getting offended when attacked in the pit, I do think that LC is making a good point here. People who don't read the warnings can't complain when Colonel calls them a Repugnant or KayEm rips them apart. And if they enter the pit having read and agreed with the warnings, then its their fault if they get upset.

The idea of restricting access is, in my pixyish opinion, a logical one but the cost is prohibitive for some people. Many people don't post a lot (hence have fewer points) but their posts are generally good ones. Others are saving for the ATS webmail or access to RATS. I do think that 500 points is a fair price for the pit.

why on earth make it so 'expensive' ? Surely 500 points would be sufficient?

Exactly my point. By the time a new user has 500 points they have most likely visited the rest of the site and posted some. So there is no reason to raise the point cost to 3500. People who have 3500 points have been around a very long time. The mud pit is an anger release mechanism and for the site and in my opinion slightly more humerous than the rest of the forum.

Here's an idea: move it to BTS and PUT NO POINT RESTRICTIONS ON IT. it really belongs there anyway.

If the objective of a point restriction is to stop search engines, then any point value will be sufficient.

But ladycool, our opinoins count for nothing. We are but the tiny ants under the great SO's foot who is crushing the beautiful ant hill simon has so lovingly built us.

THE IDEA IS STUPID. A 3500 POINT RESTRICTION ON THE MUD PIT IS A BAD IDEA AND WILL RESULT IN THE SPILLING OVER OF HEATED POLITICAL DEBATES INTO OTHER FORUMS, MOST LIKELY THE POLITICAL EVENTS FORUM.

[Edited on 5/29/04 by NothingMakesSense]

I'm not sure if it will work to be honest. I can see why it was blocked but the price will become a bit steep when it goes to 3500. I got in yesterday (and have a humungous 9 points left ) purely to see what was going on in one of the threads I was participating in. I was lucky, but many others won't be so lucky and will be effectively banned from participation until they have got enough points. Won't that suggest to certain people that they should just post rubbish purely to get enough points ?

What if the rant section had a sub link to it and that would be the Mud Pit and make sure there are big black n yellow warning signs all over it. But if it stayed in ATS I think 3500 points is a bit much more like 1000 or around that mark that way new people wont be posting stupid stuff to get in.

PS ,, if it go's to bts I want my 500 points back if it happens

How about someone lend me enough points to get in the mud pit and bash some more

I love it... I think its great and I'm a newb... Course i came from a Mobfather message board where being called 5 letter words was par for the course. I was learning alot in the pit... and provoking people is a good way to get good links to good information... errr well ya know what I mean...

Anyone who would become offended by anything anyone says is silly

Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never harm me. Theres a reason that saying has survived... the reason is because its true.

Oh and whoever it was that commented sarcastically about my post saying it was a conspiracy to keep me out of the pit... Take a chill pill and refer to the smiley in the post... I was exagerating and trying to make it funny...

I really think the mudpit should be removed at this point. I mean look at those who frequent it are out here bitching and moaning it still exists. I say take the mudpit away for a while and then bring it back when the community can handle it.

Lets have a vote .... I love the Mudpit and if they remove it can I put a board up and have a link on this page for a mudpit off site ?