Obama wants to out our military!

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Yah, I read that clown too. So what? Guess it all comes down to following orders, and I'm guessing it'll be coming down the pipes pretty soon. Live with it.

"Live with it" "Deal with it". Wow, everyone here on ATS all getting so aggressive and hostile over this.

As usual, it's always easy to say, "Live with it", than actually have to do just that.

How about this? How about the military starts to impose some of their "lifestyle choices" on you?

PT is at 0600. Followed by a ruck march.

Nope. Don't have to and you can't make me.

reply to post by MajesticJax


If thats the case, lets not teach heterosexuality either. If you teach heterosexuality, then the gay kids feel like outcasts. If you teach homosexuality, then the straight kids feel like outcasts.

Hmm. Doesn't work in my book.

reply to post by Moonman1111


HIV/STD's are not "gay only" diseases...
Herpes is bad within the straight community, so lets go ahead and ban women from the military so that that problem will be eliminated.

Seriously...I could come up with a problem for everything...

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by jerico65

PT is at 0600. Followed by a ruck march.

Nope. Don't have to and you can't make me.

Oh, c'mon!! It's fun! Please!!!???

Page 8 and still no kind of evidence, or even decent reasoning, that DADT works and/or that it's repeal would be detrimental or even that much of a problem.

The soldiers (young folks) of today are not the soldiers of yesteryear. We don't have the same social dogmas former generations had.

Equality is equality.

Some big names involved with regards to a new panel assembled to study repeal of DADT...

Former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates and Admiral Mike Mullen.

If I had to bet, it's looking like a done deal.






[edit on 3-2-2010 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by LadySkadi
Some big names involved with regards to a new panel assembled to study repeal of DADT...

Former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates and Admiral Mike Mullen.

If I had to bet, it's looking like a done deal.

Agreed. I have said for years, that the first real public and solid review of this policy would end in it's reversal.

Looks like I may prove correct.

Originally posted by jerico65
Yep, more of the same. "Deal with it". We're (not you, the military) is "dealing with" a two front war right now. You think that maybe dealing with that might be more important?

Are you suggesting we wait until we have world peace to start treating people equally? Of course the wars are important, but there will never be an ideal time to face this fiasco. And I don't really care who is going to have to deal with it. SOMEONE is. No, it's not me. Again. That's irrelevant.

Geez, maybe the vote whores in DC are looking to keep their jobs, and thought this might be the way to corner "The Gay Vote"?

The gay vote? Do you think gay people have been voting for Republicans? Obama doesn't have to TRY to get the gay vote, hon.

You don't have to deal with the problems this is going to cause. You know, having one of my Airmen come up to me and say, "Sgt X looked at me funny and now I feel all dirty inside."

No, I don't have to deal with it. Can you handle it? Are you strong enough? Brave enough? Smart enough? Are you complaining because you don't think you have the ability to handle this? Jesus. What are you doing in the military if you can't handle a silly little complaint.

Here, let me help you. An Airman says to you, "Sgt Miller looked at me funny and now I feel all dirty inside." You say, "GET comfortable with it, Airman!!! Buck up, you big baby"!!! Try that.

Exactly. And when he decides to run to the ACLU and complain, "They're picking on me because I'm gay!", what then?

Then the ACLU will either take the case or not. If they take the case, it will be investigated. If they find reason to believe that discrimination is taking place, then the military will have to answer for it. This isn't rocket science. I'm really amazed at your lack of faith in the military and yourself to handle these simple issues...

Originally posted by jerico65
BH, I've dealt with problems in the AF that would keep you sleepless for the rest of your miserable life.

I have a wonderful life! I'm in LOVE with my life. But I haven't always been so. You have NO clue about my life. You don't know what I have dealt with or how dark my nights have been. I was repeatedly molested as a child by several trusted family members, raped at 17 by a trusted friend, I watched my mother die a slow and painful death of bone marrow cancer and I am a breast cancer survivor. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Who's running suck now, bud?

Being in the military doesn't give you some exclusive right to misery or suffering. It's arrogant, pompous and ignorant for you to think non-military people don't have just as serious issues to deal with in their lives.

One thing I've never been accused of is not taking care of my troops. MMmmmmm-kay?

Then you should have no problem dealing with any issues that might arise over gays being treated equally. Be strong! You can do it!

Originally posted by jerico65
"Live with it" "Deal with it". Wow, everyone here on ATS all getting so aggressive and hostile over this.

Those are not aggressive or hostile stances. You're perception is off. All that means is that whatever happens, the military is competent to handle it. I know you have doubts about your own abilities, as you stated above, but I'm confident that your military training will give you the strength to "deal with it".


[edit on 4-2-2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Are you suggesting we wait until we have world peace to start treating people equally? Of course the wars are important, but there will never be an ideal time to face this fiasco. And I don't really care who is going to have to deal with it. SOMEONE is. No, it's not me. Again. That's irrelevant.

Yep, it's not you dealing with it. And for you, it's irrelevant (since you have nothing to do with the military), but keep in mind it is relevant to those that are in the service. You know, some more of that "thinking outside the box" sort of stuff.

And once again, since this is a conspiracy site, what if the military wants to lift DADT, and use gays as cannon fodder? If you're gay, straight to the infantry!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
No, I don't have to deal with it. Can you handle it? Are you strong enough? Brave enough? Smart enough? Are you complaining because you don't think you have the ability to handle this? Jesus. What are you doing in the military if you can't handle a silly little complaint.

Once again, you're showing that you have ZERO CLUE about the military, and that comes from not being in the service. Seems to be the case here on ATS.

I'm in the AF because you aren't smart enough, brave enough and strong enough. That's OK, tho. Try not to be so hard on yourself about that.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Here, let me help you. An Airman says to you, "Sgt Miller looked at me funny and now I feel all dirty inside." You say, "GET comfortable with it, Airman!!! Buck up, you big baby"!!! Try that.

Wow, how cutting edge and experienced you are with leadership and supervision of personnel. Did you get that bobbing for fries at Mickey D's?

Let's take your smart ass reply and turn it around a bit. Would you use that same reply with a female Airman complaining about a Male Airman???

Yeah, I thought so. Complete fail on your part. Thanks for trying, tho.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Then the ACLU will either take the case or not. If they take the case, it will be investigated. If they find reason to believe that discrimination is taking place, then the military will have to answer for it. This isn't rocket science. I'm really amazed at your lack of faith in the military and yourself to handle these simple issues...

What's wrong? Finding out this isn't going to be all wine and roses?? That it isn't going to be as simple as you wish for? And of course, not being in the service means you won't have to be facing all this. But hey, no worries, I'm here and I'm tough enough to handle all of this.

Try this on for size. ACLU shouldn't have to get involved. Chain of command and if needed, an IG complaint. Simple.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Being in the military doesn't give you some exclusive right to misery or suffering. It's arrogant, pompous and ignorant for you to think non-military people don't have just as serious issues to deal with in their lives.

If you were me, you'd be arrogant, too.

Originally posted by jerico65
I'm in the AF because you aren't smart enough, brave enough and strong enough.

Actually, I didn't join because I went to college and got a real job.

But hey, no worries, I'm here and I'm tough enough to handle all of this.

I have serious doubt about that. You've done nothing but worry over what you're going to do to handle this. I am pretty sure you're going to fall apart. I hope you can get the support you need.

If you were me, you'd be arrogant, too.

I don't doubt that. Arrogance is hallow confidence.... a manifestation of insecurity. Good luck with that.

It seems we have talked this to death, though, and frankly, I've had my fun and I'm bored. I'll be on my way to look for more interesting discussions.

Buh-bye.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Actually, I didn't join because I went to college and got a real job.

Geez, that comment is as old as the hills.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I have serious doubt about that. You've done nothing but worry over what you're going to do to handle this. I am pretty sure you're going to fall apart. I hope you can get the support you need.

I don't doubt that. Arrogance is hallow confidence.... a manifestation of insecurity.

Good luck with that.

It seems we have talked this to death, though, and frankly, I've had my fun and I'm bored. I'll be on my way to look for more interesting discussions.

Buh-bye.

And when the going gets tough, the weak break and fail.

And here I was thinking you were tougher than that. Sorry you caved so quickly.

As you can see, doing away with DADT isn't going to be as simple as you think it will be. And that's life.

Keep in mind, when blacks and women were brought into the military wasn't easy, either. We still have problems with it now, but it's a lot better than it was in the past.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Here, let me help you. An Airman says to you, "Sgt Miller looked at me funny and now I feel all dirty inside." You say, "GET comfortable with it, Airman!!! Buck up, you big baby"!!! Try that.

Let's take your smart ass reply and turn it around a bit. Would you use that same reply with a female Airman complaining about a Male Airman???

And I'm still waiting for an answer for this scenario......

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Actually, I didn't join because I went to college and got a real job.

BH, we are on the same side so please take this as kindly as it's meant.

I served my country in the infantry in the Marine Corps as my father did in the Navy and his father in WW2.

Your comment is wrong and out of line. I understand your frustration about this conversation, but please consider retracting this statement.

It's a real job, and many times a very real job.

Originally posted by jerico65
As you can see, doing away with DADT isn't going to be as simple as you think it will be. And that's life.

Strictly speaking, it's an easy move to make. Simply stop removing people for being outed.

Keep in mind, when blacks and women were brought into the military wasn't easy, either. We still have problems with it now, but it's a lot better than it was in the past.

Agreed, and much is the same at this. Young people are changing, and I think today this measure could work (far better than it would have during Clinton's reign of terror).

You must start a process to gain results. Continuing to sweep it under the rug does nothing to address the main issue.

Long story short, we need to have a serious discussion, nationally, about the military and it's standards. This, to me, is a chance to go beyond simply the DADT policy.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Strictly speaking, it's an easy move to make. Simply stop removing people for being outed.

Of course, that's the easy part. It's what comes after that's going to be alot of trouble (I was going to say, "A lot of ass pain", but that was too cheap a shot!)

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Agreed, and much is the same at this. Young people are changing, and I think today this measure could work (far better than it would have during Clinton's reign of terror).

That's going to make it a lot easier. Clinton? Can you imagine this going on in the 1950's?

[edit on 4-2-2010 by jerico65]

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Actually, I didn't join because I went to college and got a real job.

BH, we are on the same side so please take this as kindly as it's meant.

I served my country in the infantry in the Marine Corps as my father did in the Navy and his father in WW2.

Your comment is wrong and out of line. I understand your frustration about this conversation, but please consider retracting this statement.

It's a real job, and many times a very real job.

A good comment I once heard concerning a life in the military is this:

"A US veteran is someone who, at one point, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including their life.'"

Originally posted by jerico65
Of course, that's the easy part. It's what comes after that's going to be alot of trouble (I was going to say, "A lot of ass pain", but that was too cheap a shot!)

True enough. These growing pains come with problems to be sure, but it's worth it.

That's going to make it a lot easier. Clinton? Can you imagine this going on in the 1950's?

No, and it's especially hard since I wasn't born until the mid 70's, but I can venture a guess.

I still see it as the right thing to do. I'm for changing our sexual culture entirely, and it's a hard road to hoe. I like the Starship Troopers (the movie) model.

Single standard, equal rules, all jobs open to anyone who passes said standard, and single shower.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
I still see it as the right thing to do. I'm for changing our sexual culture entirely, and it's a hard road to hoe. I like the Starship Troopers (the movie) model.

Single standard, equal rules, all jobs open to anyone who passes said standard, and single shower.

You forgot the important one: Only people who've been in the military are allowed to vote and be citizens.

Back on topic. The one bone I always pick with people about DADT is the "shower scenario". People who are all for gays in the military say that it's no big deal for gay males to shower with straight males.

BUT.......if you say, "Well, then, it's OK for straight males to shower with straight females", everyone puts on the brakes. What's the diff???

BH said that if a straight male Airman comes up to me and complains about a gay male Airman giving him "the big eye", I'm suppose to tell him to "deal with it and not be a big baby".

YET....if I told that to a straight female Airman who complained about a straight male Airman doing that to her, I might as well go down to "Pick N Pay Shoes" and get a new job, because I'd lose my stripes and my career.

reply to post by jerico65

If the "shower scenario" is really the only issue (which it's not, but keeps coming up as an example to be solved) than all that needs to happen is partitions added to the showers. Easy. Case closed on that issue. Yes/No?

And the "sexual harassment scenario" is also another situation that already has precedence.
The military does have policy and procedure for this, no? Looking at someone "sideways" and making them uncomfortable or vice verse is an issue, but is it harassment?

The bigger more global topic of policy change does seem to be happening. By actively talking about this in D.C., the message has gone out, the head's up has been given... I would interpret that to mean that those involved (those currently in the military) should begin working on ways to troubleshoot the problems that will be coming.

Would you not agree?



[edit on 4-2-2010 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by MajesticJax



the primary function of the military is to win military conflicts.

all other issues should be settled with winning conflicts in mind.

the issues of personal conduct of individuals should be left to the

folks running the military to figure out.