Why is it so wrong for me to WANT to fight?

reply to post by bob135


Having studied the human psyche for some time, I have to ponder the question...

Is there honestly any soul alive that DOESN'T want the things I listed? How would that make any sense? Are people honestly going to sit there and tell me that they would rather get paid for less work, and enjoy the key points of having LESS freedoms?

I said I fight for the Constitution. Our country was based and is supposed to follow that document. Quite frankly if you believe otherwise then you don't belong here. This isn't a document that singles out classes or institutions, it is a document placating freedom and ingenuity, something that any sane person should not be against.

Is there anyone out there that wants to be kept in the dark? They wish their governments would continue lying to them? What about education? Do people want to go into debt for years of their life to receive a modest education? Sure this would not benefit the corporations but it is long time we realize that corporations are not people.

I suppose there are those that are against plentiful jobs? Are there people out there that want to continue fighting other countries, sending our children overseas in the name of oil?

I'm sure the lazy people of America, the ones who depend on welfare while they do nothing would not like my ideals. Well that is simply too bad. The old adage of human history is that every man works for his keep. There should be no reason why the country should continue the pseudo socialist welfare system, where the wealth of the masses is distributed to those who would choose to live minimalistic, unproductive lives.



You see, my ideals aren't based off of opinions, they are based off of the ideals of others as I have stated before. While others may disagree with violence as the answer, I have seen peaceful change fail time and time again, and it continues to fail today.

I, and many others, have waiting for so long for peaceful change to succeed. We have given it a change to bring in the change that humanity desires, yet it fails each time. Why can people not give us the same respect in our fight?

reply to post by gwydionblack


Hello,
I do my best thinking sometimes while on the "crapper." I had to smack myself a good one this morning for a thought I let manifest in my head...
Our fore-fathers; rich, eccentric **stards wanting their own ideals, set-out to do so on their own land, picked by themselves. Came-across "savages" and the rest is history. Where am I going with this?...Down the toilet. Weren't we doomed from our inception?

If you have not been humbled yet in your life then you have not lived. You still need to grow up.

reply to post by gwydionblack


Surprisingly, a lot of people like to have things chosen for them, to have things planned out. So they would rather pay vast sums of money to an inefficient government, just so they can live with the thought that they will be taken care of.

Many people want the things you mentioned, but there are costs associated with acquiring them - you want the truth but information isn't free, you want full transparency but rationally self interested politicians won't have that, etc.

What about education? If you don't want it, don't buy it. Unfortunately you're forced to pay for K-12 education whether you use it or not, but after that it's up to you.

You say it's "too bad" that people on welfare don't like what you think. What's really "too bad" is that they will continue to exercise their right to vote and vote for policies that transfer more wealth to themselves.

You mischaracterize the opposition: nobody disagrees that people should have jobs or that people should have freedom, they just disagree about the best way to go about getting freedom and jobs. The people who think welfare works argue that without basic needs like food clothing and housing people are unable to exercise the other freedoms we've given them. They think the benefit of giving them food outweighs the costs of the increased taxes. If you disagree that's fine, but there are many viewpoints.

reply to post by bob135


I am of the firm belief in the Constitution and either you abide by that document, or find somewhere else to live.

By forcing anybody to do anything, we are already infringing upon the rights of true freedoms and liberty guaranteed to us. Of course, it would be illegal to do anything that would infringe upon another person's rights as guaranteed by such, so thus you have the basis of law.

To accept the welfare system is to accept socialism into our form of government, something that is not condoned by any document. As long as there are plentiful jobs to sustain a work force, welfare is unnecessary.

Does that mean the entire system of welfare needs to be abolished? No. There are certain cases where I believe a general welfare is needed. In the case of the elderly and disabled, of course we should provide for them. In the case of children living in unfit conditions, of course we should provide to them.

However, when it comes to the family living off the system, procreating 6 children just so they can have some more food stamps that the working American has to pay for, while they sit on their bums and do nothing. That isn't what this country is about and if you can't handle pulling your own weight when capable, then you can't handle the rights promised to you for doing such.

But as I said, these right are guaranteed. So we don't just go around stripping people of these rights. In this situation you can only take away the thing that is not guaranteed - the welfare system. By plucking away their crutches you are forcing people to become productive members of society, or live the way unproductive people should.



When it comes to the belief that deliberately unproductive people should be given a hand by the federal government, I can only see this coming from the lips of those who are already receiving that hand. In a perfect world we would be able to give hand outs to everybody, but sadly, we don't live in a perfect world. No person deserves equal pay for no days work as someone who puts in a days work. That is just simple logic and common sense.



As far as the methods to which we reach these goals, why should it matter? Shouldn't all that matter is the fact that we DO reach these ideals for our country? It all comes down to a bunch of people trying to impose what THEY want onto the rest of the people. Why is it so hard for people to understand that in a true free society that I am proposing - you don't have to worry about the choices of someone else, or worry about someone making choices for you - YOU MAKE THE CHOICES.

It is up to each individual how their life pans out.
It is up to each individual how successful their career is.
It is up to each individual where their tax dollars go.
It is up to each individual to make their own personal decisions.





The great thing about my system is that is isn't my system - it is YOUR system. I'm not sure if people are so blind that they can't see that, or if they are just so used to the current system - the system in which they are spoon fed and guided by a leash - that they simply cannot see the benefits that a true Constitutional Republic has to offer.

It is NOT a matter about agreeing with my beliefs or systems - it is a matter of whether you would want your beliefs or systems.

I don't know how better a way to put it to get people to understand.

Reply to post by gwydionblack

No you took out of context my quote. Which is amazing considering I added another to support it. And, it's funny that you said you didn't and then said you did want blood.


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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


There is a difference between "calling out for blood" and seeing it as the only option left to reach an end. I believe I said I wanted blood no more than the Founding Fathers did. They were not warmongers or blood letters. They were a group of people who saw that the clasp of the English crown was so tight that any other means would prove futile.

In today's world, peaceful means would be ideal. However, the past century alone has more than enough examples of how peaceful change has failed, and the last decade alone shows exactly how much our current government cares about the voice of the people.

Reply to post by gwydionblack

Um you missed the point again.


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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Well then please be so kind as to stress on the point or reiterate it because your one and two line posts simply aren't doing it for me. I fail to see what you are getting at with any of your statements.

Reply to post by gwydionblack

As I said earlier violence begets more violence.


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I agree with OP. 100%. Do you know why? Simple fact, people are corruptible. We are all thought to work for pay so that we can substain ourselves, and that it is justification enough for our being there. The media does not encourage you to be someone unique. Just that you should, follow everyone else’s footsteps. No matter how unimportant it might seem. We live in a society run by money. We need money for everything. So that is how the corruption takes place. Money. A promise of a better tomorrow, a bet placed against you and a bet about your own greed. You want to better yourself, well you do not really need money, or to follow the path that was given to you by some know it all. Your path will always be unique and can not be written by some other person. It is your decision.

If you do not already know this OP is right. There are too many untied conspiracies out there to prove that U.S.A is no longer a peaceful nation. It was before the second world war. But has become a corrupted ROME. Another possible Germany is the United States right now. Just waiting for someone with influence and power to abuse of it in even sicker ways. The tyrant has not yet shown his face, but chances are it is going to happen. The United States is corrupt as is any other country. The only real power is in bankers. The bankers now have more power then any government. And the government it is invading countries without just cause. Without any proof of cause. Something that has happened again in our world history. But you go ahead and believe that you are on the right side of history. You go ahead and eat your burrito and play Call of Duty, saying that the OP is just paranoid. You go ahead and listen to the super bowl and ultimate fighting, and tell me it is no distraction. You tell me there is nothing similar to the roman empire.

If you know your history, then you know that events are repeating themselves. The fall of the Empire is at hand. Remember: with the knowledge; you can place better judgment upon yourself and others. With true information you can see what has happened and you can see those steps repeating themselves.

The constitution is a fine peace of paper. Very fine even though I am not an American, I find it is one of those documents that has forged history. But it is not the end, and a new way of doing things needs to happen for the betterment of humanity.

Ya know, I HATE violence, I HATE war, and I would much rather see peace take a hold of everyone. The simple fact is, tptb have made it impossible for peaceful solutions to actually do any good. They have done this purposely to enact violence as a means of change. Once you grasp this, you realize, either way were screwed.

I fight for a government that doesn't need to hide what it is doing to keep the people appeased.

If you are completely open with your own public...then you are completely open with your enemies. Things don't work this way in the real world...to think otherwise is being naive.

I fight for the day when we don't need to fight foreign wars over ghosts and oil...but spread the advancement of humanitarianism around the world, advancements that this nation has been able to overcome in its rich history.

So you want to use the military to stop immigration because some people just want to feed their family...but you are all for humanitarianism. Do you see a conflict here? And what advancements that "this nation" has been able to overcome? Aren't you fighting AGAINST what this nation has done??? I'm confused.

I want a nation and a world where it doesn't require somebody to go into debt to receive an education

So what is your solution for that? Abolish schools? Abolish private schools? Have it all government funded and free to the public? Well then you are going to have to raise taxes...and weren't you against that too?

I want a nation that if imports stopped today, we would be able to thrive and survive on our own.

Imports are good and help our economy. Show me any prosperous country at any period of time that had no imports.

I want a nation where inventors and thinkers, laborers and families are not separated from athletes and actors by several social classes

Again...what is your solution? Are you going to outlaw sports? There is a reason they get paid alot of money...because people are WILLING to pay a lot of money to see them. It isn't a conspiracy...if I want to pay 50 bucks to go watch a football game and so do 100,000 other people...then the owners of that team are going to want to pay the best players more money than the other owners so they get more people to come watch their games. So how are you going to stop this? Take away my freedom and right to be able to spend my money where I want???

I dream of a new social structure where there IS no social structure.
But please, do not confuse my views with socialism

You can't have it both ways...you can't say it isn't socialism because everyone isn't equal...but then say people can't be so unequal (pro athletes compared to soldiers). So in reality...you do want everyone equal...which isn't socialism...it is communism.

But that doesn't mean forcing anything.

To get to where you want to...you would have to turn this country into a communistic dictatorship. So yeah...you would be forcing a lot of things on everyone.







I just don't really understand your motives. You seemed confused yourself. You say you aren't forcing anything on anyone...but yet you are. You say you want to fight for the constitution...but then in your details you are sounding like you are going against the constitution in many ways since you would have to remove many people's rights in order to get to your ideal nation. I feel like it is sad to say...but I agree with the other poster that it seems like you have a lot of growing up to do. Your "ideals" seem a bit naive and simple minded. I don't mean to offend...but that is my opinion. I also think you are a little naive by openly stating that you want an open violent revolution against our government on such a public board where you are not as anonymous as you may think you are.

I still don't understand your desire to fight, your motives to do so, or the solution you think you could accomplish with such an action. What exactly is missing in your life that you think that if you fought and succeeded that you would then gain in your life to make you happy? Just tell me ONE thing that you are currently lacking, or a freedom/right that you are being denied???

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

If you are completely open with your own public...then you are completely open with your enemies. Things don't work this way in the real world...to think otherwise is being naive.

This belief is so old hat it is ridiculous. Under the notion of limited foreign policy and the old libertarian belief of getting our nose out of others people business, the only enemies we would have are those who with to cause harm to our country. Any enemies to us would be made clear immediately if they tried to attack us on our own soil, and should we bring are military to the homeland like they are supposed to be, we have nothing to worry about.

There is a fine line between transparency in the name of public safety and the complete and utter lack of transparency we have today. For just two examples - the black boxes or video recording of the "plane" that hit the Pentagon AND closed door health care meetings. Clearly releasing the footage will not harm American security and will only appease the masses searching for truth. In terms of the health care talks, the only reasoning for it to be closed door would be to include something that the American people are unaware of. To follow the old doctrine that transparency would make us unsafe, THAT is being naive.

So you want to use the military to stop immigration because some people just want to feed their family...but you are all for humanitarianism. Do you see a conflict here? And what advancements that "this nation" has been able to overcome? Aren't you fighting AGAINST what this nation has done??? I'm confused.

You misquote me. I want to use the military to stop ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. America was founded on the back of immigrants and it should stay that way. Anybody who wants to become an American citizen should be given that right, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have to go through the proper channels. People are calculated and accounted for so that systems work and having countless illegal immigrants that are unaccounted for only causes problems with numerous systems.

So what is your solution for that? Abolish schools? Abolish private schools? Have it all government funded and free to the public? Well then you are going to have to raise taxes...and weren't you against that too?

I don't recall ever saying people wouldn't be paying taxes. My correct wordage was that people would get to choose where there taxes are being used. I think if people wish to put their tax dollars into furthering their own education then there should be government funded schools to do so. This doesn't take away from private schools in the slightest, because for anyone that wishes to enroll in a private college and pay out of pocket for such, they have that choice. However, as long as someone is in school, their tax dollars should be able to be deferred to pay for that schooling so that they can help make this nation a more prosperous place. Knowledge will only lead to better benefits for everyone.

As far as raising taxes, I don't believe that will be an issue at all. As the tax systems are handled right now an unprecedented amount of our tax dollars goes towards foreign war and defunct organizations that need to be revamped. When it is all said and done, I wouldn't be so sure that taxes couldn't be lowered further still.

Imports are good and help our economy. Show me any prosperous country at any period of time that had no imports.

You take my quote out of context. I never said stop all imports and we shall thrive. But when we have a nation that literally could not function if our imports are stopped, then we have a serious problem. Manufacturing and production has left America high and dry and if we bring it home not only can we depend more on ourselves than other countries, but we will be bringing in more jobs and business for the country to thrive.

No one ever said to get rid of imports altogether, as an idea like that is simply ludicrous.

Again...what is your solution? Are you going to outlaw sports?...Take away my freedom and right to be able to spend my money where I want???

Nobody ever said it was a conspiracy. It is a sad reality in fact. I'm sad to say but this is the only topic I don't have an answer for. The only thing that can be hoped for is that with a change in the system and the way things are managed, American priorities make a pole shift of their own. The only thing that comes to my mind is government aid and sponsorship to scientists and inventors who seek to expand our knowledge and technology. This of course is only a small step but it would be beneficial towards making people realize that they can instead spend that $50 on something that will make their standard of living better, rather than to go to a sporting event.

You can't have it both ways...you can't say it isn't socialism because everyone isn't equal...but then say people can't be so unequal (pro athletes compared to soldiers). So in reality...you do want everyone equal...which isn't socialism...it is communism.

I don't want everybody equal. If I wanted everybody equal I would suggest a flat wage to everyone, equal meals, and equal everything. That isn't the case. However, I do want everyone to have a fair shot.

What does this mean exactly? It means separating the barrier between the upper class and the lower tier. When corporations like Walmart make it impossible for someone to start a business of their own, it comes a time when the line has to be drawn. Some would say that businesses like that have that right to do as they please, however, by doing such they infringe upon the rights of others. Therefore stricter corporate limitations and better management are a necessity for a brighter future for the country. Monopoly laws of old need to be reassessed and remanaged to accommodate the industry today.

To get to where you want to...you would have to turn this country into a communistic dictatorship. So yeah...you would be forcing a lot of things on everyone.

No, to get where I want I need to turn this country into a Constitutional Republic, where power is given back to the Congress and thus to the people, with restrictions upon term limits to avoid the corrupt policies we see today.

I just don't really understand your motives. You seemed confused yourself. You say you aren't forcing anything on anyone...but yet you are.

The only thing I am forcing is a wake up call and a return to the original ideals the country was founded on. You could argue that I am forcing people to give up some of the things they have come to expect in the current state of our country, and you may be right in that respect, but the current state of our country is not was our country is supposed to be and it pales in comparison to what it SHOULD be.

You say you want to fight for the constitution...but then in your details you are sounding like you are going against the constitution in many ways since you would have to remove many people's rights in order to get to your ideal nation.

None of my arguments infringe upon the rights given in the Constitution. I have triple checked them myself. Perhaps if you believe otherwise you can give specific examples, or perhaps you misinterpreted something I said. No matter, I would be happy to clarify anything for you.

I feel like it is sad to say...but I agree with the other poster that it seems like you have a lot of growing up to do. Your "ideals" seem a bit naive and simple minded. I don't mean to offend...but that is my opinion.

You are allowed to have your opinion. But I have to disagree with you. I have done a lot of growing up in the past couple of years to get to this point, and if my ideals are so simple minded, why is it so complicated for people to understand it? Why do I repeatedly have to explain and defend myself if everything is so cut and dry as you and "other posters" proclaim?

No I will take the bait. My ideals are simply minded, however, I believe that the majority of the peoples minds are so confuddled and confused over the complete MESS of a government we have today, that they fail to realize that with less government control and more control into the hands of the people, the whole scenario really is quite simple. Today we 1000 - 2000 + pages of bills and legislation that nobody seems to understand.

The Constitution was six pages long and, at least to me, it is cut and dry and simple to understand. Why is that? Because it is based on simple ideals that our Founding Fathers gathered together to create "a more perfect union". Our country was founded on these simply ideals and it is because of the brainwashing and lull we have let ourselves fall into that we all feel that everything is so complicated that we wouldn't stand a chance at making a difference, much less understand it.

I also think you are a little naive by openly stating that you want an open violent revolution against our government on such a public board where you are not as anonymous as you may think you are.

I never claimed to be anonymous. In fact, it isn't hard at all to find out every bit of detail about me. However, I am not tempted by fear of my government to sit idly by in secret. I reserve the right to speak freely but at the same time I know exactly what they might use against me and my limitations. I want them to see me coming, and I want them to be ready, because I want them to understand that in the end - even with all their might, their power, and their ambitions to control - there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.

I still don't understand your desire to fight, your motives to do so, or the solution you think you could accomplish with such an action. What exactly is missing in your life that you think that if you fought and succeeded that you would then gain in your life to make you happy? Just tell me ONE thing that you are currently lacking, or a freedom/right that you are being denied???

I don't know what is missing in my life. That is the problem. That is why I fight. I read about the Founding Fathers and their definition of freedom on liberty and it isn't hard to tell that we don't live in that definition. Most of us have never experienced true freedom. We don't what something like that might actually feel like. Some of us may be threatened by it as we have been taught the lie that we cannot live on our own, making our own choices.

I fight because I want to experience the freedom they experienced. The freedom that led the United States in less than 200 years to become the most iconic and prosperous nation in the HISTORY of this planet. The freedom that led other countries to stand up and ignore what they were told and fight too for their independence. Today, freedom like that is only a myth - old fables that we are told about that seem so distant to our daily lives.

The truth is, there was a time when such liberty existed. It wasn't in any of our lifetimes but to know that it was there is enough for me to fight for it. Not only for myself, but for everyone. America deserves to take its place as what it once was, a beacon of hope and individuality around the world - not the enemy of all other nations that it has become today. Not the police force of the world or the harbinger of death and destruction that it has been dissolved to.

You call my ideals naive because you don't understand them. I hope that one day you do. And all the legends about the greatness of the United States, and the great influence it had upon the world... maybe one day you and I will be a part of the second coming of that time.

We were given something here that was fought for with blood, sweat, and years. Generations have given everything to fight for our chance to preserve this beacon of hope. Do we not owe it to the generations pasts to fight and stand up for what this nation really is? Or do we continue to cower in fear allowing the power hungry to control us, to pretend to care for us, and to lead us to our demise.

The choice in all of us, but as for me. I have already made up my mind. Now, it is time for everyone else to make up theirs.

I figured I'd bump this one more time for anyone that might have a comment. If not, then this will be it.