Billy Meier What A Joke!

Acidhead, I listened to your sound, you have skills, but it did not sound like the UFO sounds Meier provided. To me it sounded like military alarm was going off in the distance, and reminded me of a race track a little bit. Thanks for the file though!

yeah , my other version was alot better than this , this seems too harsh in your face. still gives you the basic similarities in the sound ie the way the feedback screach shifts and moves



[edit on 24-7-2004 by acidhead]

Pages 5, 6, 7, 12 have this file on them. This is the URL www.futuretrance.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk... You have other ones?

no - i created a version and put it on my server but when this topic died for a bit i had a clean out and deleted it.

now the topic has been "bump"ed i just put that soundfile where the old soundfile was.

just to make another point , i cant even get my sound to sound like my old one - and thats with the same equipment so what chance does anyone have of recreating the exact meiers sound ?

everyone with a healthy brain and no financial interrest in the mayer case knows that it is 100% fake.

discussion with a con man is useless he will never admit the truth. i am absolutely sure that michael horn knows that the billy mayer case is a hoax but as long as he makes a dollar from it he will play along. some questions will be answered with scientific testimony from questionable sources most are ignored, thats how it works for people like him. maybe after mayer dies he will write a book about the truth as a last attempt to cash in.

shame on you michael horn, shame on you.



[edit on 24-7-2004 by feyd rautha]

Originally posted by acidhead
no - i created a version and put it on my server but when this topic died for a bit i had a clean out and deleted it.

now the topic has been "bump"ed i just put that soundfile where the old soundfile was.

just to make another point , i cant even get my sound to sound like my old one - and thats with the same equipment so what chance does anyone have of recreating the exact meiers sound ?

True, so by your very own statement, you have to watch when you say "I made the same sound as Meier" which you did in a couple of posts. It's not the same.
Both of your sounds have a very tubular, sine-wave-ish timbre to them, almost akin to a bad distorted guitar, and are not as complex as Meier's UFO sound which almost has the timbre of a power saw cutting through steel, while mixing with other sine oscillations. Plus you didn't seem to capture the quality as if something is rotating, which is very apparent, and is also explained in the sound reports.

Wendelle Stevens writes (in the early 80s):
"A specimen of these sound was also turned over to Robin L. Shellman, a naval sound technician, who studied them with a spectrum analyzer built by Spectro Dynamics of San Diego, latest state of the art equipment. Demodulation indicated a rotating device at 249.6 rpm modulated at 4.16 Hz.
"The high speed device would produce a sound starting at 520 Hz and ascending in steps to 990 Hz, and then using the same frequency steps, descend back down to 520 Hz. The group of tonals surrounding 520 Hz would fade out together at 520 and then reappear at 600 and fade out together again until 720, then fading again but coming back very strong at 990 Hz. It did exactly the same thing as it shifted back down the band, using the same Hz thresholds. It would remain stable momentarily and then shift would begin all over again. The shifting was random and constant. At some points the high speed rotating device was silent and a low throbbing beat was heard, and then the high speed rotation came on and the sound rose rapidly to a high pitch whining crescendo in the upper 50,000 rpm range or better. At the same time the slower 249.6 rpm rotation again became audible. The whine was produced by the high speed rotation of around 29,000 rpm and speeding up to above 59,000 rpm. This was certainly no ordinary sound!"

I've made a ton of sound patches since my early band days in the 80s, mixing several oscillators and applying modulators to match the nuances and exact timbre of sounds I wanted to recreate. I have an ear for sound. Your sound is cool, but it's no where near as intricate and involved as Meier's.

Originally posted by feyd rautha
shame on you michael horn, shame on you.

Another person who has nary a clue as to what's going on. Might I suggest you come back when you actually have something thought-provoking to spew forth?

Or maybe take a trip to Meier's place to meet the man and actually see what he's all about and talk to some of the witnesses, and see Meier's own photos (not forged repros flying around the web), something the big-talkers never seem to get around to doin'. Or is that just too much for you to handle?

Originally posted by acidhead
yeah , your a real hero arent u , hope meiers was happy in you defending him like that

I won't even try to guess what the point of that statement was...

HE'S EITHER AN ABOVE-GENIUS LEVEL PHOTOGRAPHIC EXPERT, FILMMAKER, VIDEOGRAPHER, METALLURGIST, SOUND ENGINEER, SPECIAL EFFECTS WIZARD, MODEL MAKER, PHYSICIST, ASTRONOMER, HYPER-SPACE PROPULSION EXPERT, HISTORIAN, ARCHEOLOGIST, MATHEMATICIAN, LINGUIST, CLAIRVOYANT, MASS HYPNOTIST, ETC., ETC. OR...

A REAL CONTACTEE.

Now think real hard...which one is it?

i think the above comment is going a bit far - i wouldnt say he a genius or expert at anything , its pure exageration on your part.

so the question really is :-
he's either a really bored one armed man with lots of time on his hands to learn alot of little hobbies like photography, sound recording etc

or in contact with aliens ?

C'mon acidhead. I know you can do better than that. You've never met Meier and you obviously do not have an inkling of a clue about about his life schedule past or present, so I'd say you're in no position to even speculate on how much time he had or has on his hand(s). When are you gonna read a few thousand more pages of his contact notes, or some of his many books on the universe, time travel, hyperspace propulsion, the psyche, the human condition, earth history, prophecies, etc., etc. to figure out for yourself how much time the guy has?

What are the troubling contradictions...and is that what really troubles you about the case?

see post id 701254 on page 11 of this thread by Peronemlin

Erm, those aren't contradictions. The first one might be considered an "oddity" to the uninformed. But upon doing your due diligence and actually reading things , you find that the race called Plejaren had recently exchanged spiritual related knowledge for technological advances with another race of beings more technically developed than they. It bumped them up from a 3,000-year gap with earth to an 8,000-year jump on us. Is it really that difficult to accept that something like this could actually occur regularly between various races out there in the vastness of the universe?

a picture of this car with a person near it would be nice - just to prove that it exists outside matchbox scale

That whole matchbox car theory is basically destroyed by the very photo you posted yourself earlier. Here it is:



This night shot of the same ship with the same car shows clearly that the ship is now more of a foreground object while the car is more in the background, which you can discern by perspective. Guess what... the background object (the car) is now fuzzy while the foreground object (the ship) is in relatively clear focus which contradicts all the opposing arguments. And what does this tell us? I'm sure you've heard of depth-of-field in photography, right? At night, Meier presumably had to have the lens opened wider (allowing more light in) which automagically produces a narrow depth-of-field, meaning there is a narrow range in front of the lens that remains in sharp focus. This will change based on the focal length of his lens, but that shouldn't be too hard to find out. I know he used a Ricoh Singlex which didn't have a stuck f-stop ring like his older camera, so he was able to adjust it. And as we can accept from the video segment which we've spent all too much time discussing (but nobody seems to have a viable solution for it), the ship is, at minimum, 3.5 meters (12 feet) with other larger size possibilities that Meier himself documented. Nice try though with the matchbox car.

this picture looks plain wrong , if that is a full size tree then the grass looks roughly 3ft tall at its base. are there any pics of this tree with a person standing near it ?

How do you know the lay of the land there? How do you know if Meier didn't take the pic close to the ground? After all, I could see the tops of flowers in the shot. Too many variables to try and guess, especially from a 72 dpi jpeg of this size. Again, refer to the Meier's zooming video shot to accept the plain reality that the ship is simply not a cake pan.

I guess there will always be idiots who come out of the woodwork, who've done zero research and don't know what they're talking about but who can't resist an opportunity to make fools of themselves. Of course, the usual bit about "you're only in it for the money" comes out of the small brains who simply project their own non-values on to anyone who actually does the hard work required to find out the facts of the case.

And this, for those who are interested, is just a very highly diluted form of the actual relentless, groundless attacks from frightened morons that Meier endured, and there was far worse from potential assassins. It seems that no matter the depth and quality of information and attempts to offer assistance get to help us out of the rut of stupidity and ignorance you can always count on mediocre minds to get back in the hole and dig like heck to sink even deeper.

My sympathies go out to Aurelius for his attempt to get the terminally ignorant to educate themselves. Experience has taught me that it's a near hopeless task. The comments of these two "geniuses" again confirm it.

ok got a bit to answer to here havent i

True, so by your very own statement, you have to watch when you say "I made the same sound as Meier" which you did in a couple of posts. It's not the same.

yes i have made the same sound as meier , it is how he done it , he used different equipment and so gets slightly different results but it is the same kind of sound. if you are aware of sound as you seem to make out , you will understand that at the start of the sound is a click - this click is clearly a mic being handled and it echos -
this points to the sound being manipulated in some way by an echo device - why would someone do that ? it was even pointed out by someone defending the story saying that "the field has echos so must be real" kinda point which if you know so much is that reverbs and echos bounce off hard surfaces and not fields.

the underlying sound could be anything from a chord of somesort being played or a vocoder or even something created by his equipment used.

I've made a ton of sound patches since my early band days in the 80s, mixing several oscillators

thats because you are doing it from oscs and not feedback - record some feedback with a mic and slow it down half speed

the big chunk of text you put up from the engineer report just says something basically is rising and falling in pitch - its a big gloryfied essay to make something simple sound complex.
words like "speed" and "rotation" ??? if this was a scientists report they wouldnt throw in words like this to put thoughts into your head , they would use laymans terms. the people who done the report shouldnt have known what it was when they analysed the sound. the fact they used those words proved basically they where exited by having a tinkle at some alleged ufo sound and wrote the report to fit around it.

I won't even try to guess what the point of that statement was...

i get called on drugs because i dont believe meiers is contacted by aliens. the statement was to say that meiers must be really proud to have a lapdog insulting people for him

When are you gonna read a few thousand more pages of his contact notes, or some of his many books on the universe, time travel, hyperspace propulsion, the psyche, the human condition, earth history, prophecies, etc., etc. to figure out for yourself how much time the guy has?

well i guess he has alot of time on his hands if he is doing all those things eh

Erm, those aren't contradictions.

erm , yes
saying one moment that the aliens cant let any proof go out about themselves being on earth and then in another saying that the aliens wanted to put out the greatest proof is a contradiction. what part of the word contradiction dont you understand?

That whole matchbox car theory is basically destroyed by the very photo you posted yourself earlier.

actually no , it still looks like a toy car , ill believe its not a toy car when i see a person standing near it /in it/ or daylight photo thanks

please see my mobile phone/deoderant pic for reference on how easy it is to alter size perception of objects when taking shots of it

Again, refer to the Meier's zooming video shot to accept the plain reality that the ship is simply not a cake pan.

are we talking about a different video ? the one where the object isnt actually moving ? when it starts moving ill accept it isnt a prop of some sort. why do you keep on thinking that because YOU couldnt doit then it is impossible for other to be able to do it

I guess there will always be idiots who come out of the woodwork,

once again you spit your dummy out and start namecalling

who've done zero research and don't know what they're talking about but who can't resist an opportunity to make fools of themselves. Of course, the usual bit about "you're only in it for the money" comes out of the small brains who simply project their own non-values on to anyone who actually does the hard work required to find out the facts of the case.

wild stab in the dark guess says people have said this before to you huh ?



so all the cheques get made directly to you michealhorn? i now see why you get so uptight when someone says anything about meiers , after all , who will feed your kids when it all comes out its a hoax ?

isnt like $40 a bit much for 2 ufo clips ? im sorry , you have just lost any credability in my eyes




[edit on 25-7-2004 by acidhead]

[edit on 25-7-2004 by acidhead]

Re your comments on the sounds, photos, etc. You are unaware, or simply don't care, that real, very well-qualified human beings spent years (some of them living there in Switzerland) thoroughly investigating the case. No props, models, special effects, collaborators, conspirators, financial aid, etc. were ever uncovered. No one has ever come forward to claim participation, nor to enter the special effects industry and duplicate the evidence. Meier was offered, in the early 1980s a $1,000,000 contract by Universal (perhaps you've heard of them) for movie rights including access to their special effects department to duplicate the photographic/film effects. There were threee other major studios that made film offers to him. He declined them all.

I suggest that you offer your services to them for special effects and sound engineering (the money offer should be even bigger 20+ years later).

There is another Academy Award-winning studio that I recently showed all the evidence to. I'm actually trying to get them to attempt to duplicate the photographic/film/video evidence when their latest project is done. They stated that a claim by CFI-West as to how Meier "hoaxed" a segment where two separate lights pulse on and off from two separate places on the ship (close-up, in broad daylight) was absolute nonsense. They have already said that Meier's films were unequalled by any professional (or amatuer) sci-fi, spaceship/UFO films up to and including that time. They hinted that, if they try to duplicate his work, they'll have to use CGI to do so. When they've either attempted or declined I'll post their name...so you can also offer them your services.

Then we can get on to them metal alloy samples analyzed by IBM scientist Marcel Vogel, who stated that he knew of no technology on the planet available with which he could duplicate the alloys. Of course he must just be another bozo like all three of the sound engineers who could neither identify the source, nor duplicate, the sounds. And all the witnesses who were at the recording of the sounds? Gullible, non-observant hicks who didn't notice that Meier had strung a bunch of speakers around and was actually making the sounds himself...in his spare time.

It may come as a surprize to you but you haven't reinvented the wheel here, i.e. the sound of uninformed fools is one we have heard plenty of times before. And as for referring to you as an idiot, I guess you feel that it's fair game to slander Meier, me and others who've done the due diligence but that it doesn't cut both ways.

Which brings me to your exposing my rank materialism (thank you for posting the price list). Now of course you support yourself on the good wishes of others because whatever work you do is not remunerated, right? Strangely enough, in my case that was, and sometimes still is, true.

I researched the Meier case for 25 years, at my own expense. Whenever I appear on a radio show, and I do lots of them, it is uncompensated. Doing lectures doesn't yet pay very much. But, funny thing, people wanted more information than was available in English. They wanted to see, hear and read, to examine and research for themselves. So I produced a DVD at my own expense (at $25 it represents $1 for every year I've researched so far). The Austrian author of the new book (now translated into English) asked me to represent the book in America. Then I asked Billy if I could, without compensation from him, represent the case in the American media.

And I spend more of my time, money and energy (willingly!) on my research, writing, radio and TV interviews, lectures and corresponding regarding the case than I do on my "regular" (also self-created) career: www.sitandgetfit.com Oh, and I don't know where you get the idea of $40 for two video clips, you make an awful lot of incorrect assumptions, not exactly representative of a quality mind, researcher or otherwise.

I think the person with too much time on their hands is probably you.

I don't know where you get the idea of $40 for two video clips

dont you ? i suggest you go back and actually read your own advert then

you get the wedding cake mini cd for $25 , and a DAL universe ufo mini cd for $15 - then if you look to the bottom box you get a bargain of both of them for $40

are the prices so high because the aliens are taking a cut out of them ?

did the pleadians turn up one day with a business plan ?

now i dont meen to be totally rude here but your movie dvds cost more than the latest blockbuster ? please explain why you need such a mark up on such a thing?

one last point , is it true that meiers wife came clean about the whole thing when they split ? is it true that she went on record explaining how he put it together ?

Ah, once again, not paying attention. The chart you have shown is a SHIPPING chart so we put the two mini-CDs together at the same shippiong price as shipping just one since they're small and no need to charge more for two, get the idea?

The mini-CD of the Wedding Cake ship contains a whole lot of photos of the craft as it approaches from the distance, sequence shots, close-ups, etc. from the collection of Wendelle Stevens. As you must surely know, creating sequence shots presents enormous challenges if one is using a model, as in the sequence shots Meier took in broad daylight of 3 and 4 of the ships.

The Dal mini-CD contains fewer photos but they are the ones from 1964 in India, with up to 8 of the craft (broad daylight). Recently, a former UN diplomat came forward and attested to the veracity of Meier's story because she was one of the witnesses in India to seeing Meier, the UFOs...and the ET woman that Meier met, walked and talked with at the time. Gee, I wonder how much they bribed here to come forward and be video-interviewed with all the details. This was at the same time that Meier was interviewed in an Indian (English-language) newspaper. 40 years ago, wow was he setting up an elaborate hoax or what?!?!? This mini-CD also has some of the transcripts of Meier's conversations from that time, which have been unavailable in English for about 20 years.

Yeah, I guess you really caught us this time trying to rip off the unsuspecting public.

Now I don't mean to be rude either but perhaps you're familiar with the out of pocket costs of making a DVD and the costs of duplication when you don't run them off in the tens of thousands or more. Perhaps also if you figure how much time and effort is spend in free promotion, as well as in sending free copies as promo to radio stations, newspapers, magazines, etc. So, if you're a one-person operation as opposed to a huge corporation (that also has all the benefits of advertising, TV exposure, etc., etc. you might understand the difference between what MGM can do (and afford to do) and what I can. If you produce your own music CD/DVD, for instance, and you go about marketing it you'll get the picture.

The main thing is to offer something of value at a fair price. My DVD is just under two-hours long, has photos, film, video, documentation and even scans of the original versions of the English language Contact Reports where Meier published much of the prophetically accurate info prior, of course, to other sources. And the book is about 350 pages with soemthing like 70 color plates in it. If you are familiar with any of the costs associated with publishing as well as DVD production you might see that it's pretty hard to get rich off of this but I won't complain if selling of these products helps support my ability to present the work.

Regarding Meier's wife, no, she didn't come clean, she contradicted herself royally. She was one of the 15 or so people who passed a lie detector test (100%) confirming the authenticity of his contacts and, if I recall correctly, that she had seen the ships herself. There is apparently a videotape of her detailing the sightings and the experiences. And one of the delightful aspects of this case is that it's made up of real people with their real flawas, like husbands and wives divorcing and bad feelings and even other misunderstandings between people, such as the 20-year long one with Lee Elders that Meier and the Plejaren finally cleared up..by admitting they were wrong and had slandered Elders based on information which they accepted as true without looking into it. The ETs are clearly not perfect either though they can do so nifty things that we still can't.


Of course, there is video of a number of the witnesses, many of whom I have met myself over the past four years. They are rather down to earth, direct and, in my opinion, honest people. I live in L.A. I can tell the difference between people who are full of b.s. and people who aren't. A couple of them have photographed the ships themselves.

There's one guy, Freddy, who about two years ago, along with 15 other people, spent 1/2 hour photographing two of the ships above the center (in broad daylight).

And I don't mind answering any of the questions or challenges, my "job" is fairly easy because all of the information is there to refer to. I do suggest though that people really dig, really research and THINK through the entirety of this case before siding with it or against it.

lol so because a "mini cd" has some transcripts , some photos and a video then its worth $25 ??

here is a uk cd pressing company and their prices for cd duplication

www.musicmedia-uk.com...

Q: I am looking for a pressing of around 250 copies c/w jewel cases.

A: Our minimum order for pressed CD's via glass mastering and conventional packaging (jewel boxes, cellowrapping, 4/1 4 page booklet etc...) is 300 @ �549.00 + VAT and delivery (�35 plus VAT). However, 500 CD's is a better deal at only �36 more at �585.00.

Q: C.D.s to have onbody printing, 4 page booklets and inlay cards - all black & white

A: This is included in the prices with the pressed versions. For the burned CD's we now offer you can get the same booklets seperately for �100 + plus VAT for 1000 (sorry but that is the minumum quantity the printers will print..)

Q: I shall supply the master copy to yourselves on CD-R

A: Good!!!

Q: I have detailed ideas for artwork/layout etc. showing the front/back/inside of the booklet, the back of the c.d inlay card and the actual onbody c.d. design. These are shown as mock- ups on the attached 'Paint' files. Unfortunately these are not to the correct scale needed - i.e. sizing of artwork to be done by yourselves (does this affect the price?).

A: Artwork is charged at �125 plus VAT if you give us your ideas for the pressed version. As the quantity for even the burned varity is too large for inkjet printing we still have to prepare films for the 1000 mentioned above.

[sarcasm] not quite a $25 per disc charge is it ? good to see people arent making money from this [/sarcasm]

so for each of those mini cds you only get about $20 profit , any jobs going doing what you do ?

ok fun over with now , im going to look into this very seriously and read up a fair bit. I would however be very greatfull for a higher quality .wav or 360kps mp3 file of the ufo audio. do you have a link for it online anywhere ? the one on the site is pretty poor quality and if im going to have a go at recreating the sound propper i want to be able to see its harmnonic structure without having to view the after effects of low bitrate audio compression

since you are a promoter for Mr Meier then could you link me to the best sites on the net so i dont have to go through the scraps with the small pics on. the sites you find are the most genuine of course.

also , the scientific page on your site is down ? i wanted to read the metal analysis report but it seems to be blank ?

thanks in advance

[edit on 25-7-2004 by acidhead]

[sarcasm] not quite a $25 per disc charge is it ? good to see people arent making money from this [/sarcasm]

I'm thinkin we need a unique font for sarcasms . I tell you I'd use it all the time .

[sarcasm]I really believe this Meier-dude though.[/sarcasm]

Wohooo!!! ATS-points go up!!!

Ooops... sorry Mr Moderator-Bird, I should add something to this thread, right?

Ok, here goes... Did Meier know that nun in Sound of Music? She was from Swizerland too, right? And if so, did she see or touch any aliens?

I should add, because I haven't mentioned it before, that I respect it when anyone actually attempts to duplicate the evidence and doesn't simply complain about it. And because you are actually attempting to do so I feel I owe some time for interaction.

Alright, that said, apparently a couple of things have escaped your understanding (am I surprised?).

There is, first of all, no obligation on anyone's part to purchase the mini-CD, or anything else. i have posted so much free stuff that anyone even remotely interested can get educated without spending any money, a very large issue for you it seems. The mini-CDs, as I thought I pointed out, are produced by Wendelle Stevens, the lead investigator on the case who, along with his team members, spent years of their time, and far beyond $100,000 of their own money, to investigate, gather evidence, have analyses performed, etc. The books, videos and CDs they've produced they likewise did out of their own pocket. Perhaps you have issues with the capitalistic system, money in general, personal value and worth, etc. Whatever, you so dilute your own credibility by being thusly uninformed as to the dimension and scope of time and financial investment and how it works when one is self-employed (at least over here) that you don't do your arguments, as to the credibility or lack of it re the case, any service at all.

So, to further elaborate on the pricing issue, when someone is a reseller of someone else's product it is bought at a certain wholesale price and then resold for the retail price. I'd surely like to share the rest of what I've learned about all this but I doubt it will have much value to you, since, again you appear to have a lot of time on your hands for flailing about with unsubstantiated attacks and who knows what your actual productivity is in the "real world".

I don't have any other immediate access to the sounds but you could probably contact FIGU and get/order them. Oooops, they might have the temerity to request a payment and that would put the matter at rest for you. Oh well.

I have some link on my site that you can check out, i.e. Deardorff, Jansen, FIGU. A search might reveal others but I really don't know.

I didn't find any docs inaccessible but here's an overview of some of the evaluation by independent experts, including Marcel Vogel (whose actual examination on the video is something like 45 minutes):Scientific Experts� Comments on Meier�s Evidence

From Author Gary Kinder�s �Open Letter to the UFO Community�

David Froning: At the time, Dr. Froning had already spent 25 years as an astronautical engineer at McDonnell Douglas in highly classified military defense and, in 1979, became interested in Meier�s accounts of Plejaren starship travel, which mentioned tachyon propulsion. Dr. Froning found Meier's account of tachyon propulsion (which was only beginning to be discussed by a very small and select group of theoretical physicists), and his calculations for above light speed travel to be amazing. In 1983, he was pursuing his Quantum Interstellar Ramjet idea (JBIS vol. 33, no. 7, July 1980; AIAA 81-1533, July1981; IAF-85-492, October, 1985) and plugged in his Quantum Ramjet performance equations, assuming: a given starship density, vacuum energy conversion efficiency (in transforming positrons and electrons within the quantum vacuum into photons), and vacuum energy conversion scales of distance of the order of the Compton wavelength. The resulting vehicle acceleration enabled achievement of almost light speed in about 4.3 hours and deceleration from light speed in about 4.3 hours. Meier said that the elapsed time during the "hyperspace jump" took only several seconds. Thus, trip time between the Pleiades star cluster and Earth with Froning�s slower-than-light Quantum Ramjet Drive plus a hypothetical tachyon drive would be 8.6 hours, which was within 20% of the Plejaren trip time reported by Meier. But, while Froning�s calculations were based on many arbitrary assumptions, and in no way proved the truthfulness of Meier's account (since it was a theoretical system he was working on, only time will tell as to which are correct) Froning was somewhat startled that his arbitrary flight time computations were within 20% of the flight time mentioned by Meier. Regarding the Meier material, Dr. Froning also publicly stated that, �My colleagues and I may have made breakthroughs in our understanding of possibilities and ways for traveling faster than light from Billy Meier's accounts of his encounters with the Plejarens.�

Eric Eliason: U.S. Geological Survey in Flagstaff, Arizona, created image-processing software so astrogeologists can analyze photographs of planets beamed back from space, spent two years producing the intricate radar map of cloud-covered Venus acquired by Pioneer 10: "In the photographs there were no sharp breaks where you could see it had been somehow artificially dubbed. And if that dubbing was registered in the film, the computer would have seen it. We didn't see anything."

Robert Post: JPL photo laboratory for 22 years, was the head of that lab in 1979, and oversaw the developing and printing of every photograph that came out of JPL at the time: "From a photography standpoint, you couldn't see anything that was fake about the Meier photos. That's what struck me. They looked like legitimate photographs. I thought, 'God, if this is real, this is going to be really something.�

Dr. Michael Malin: Principal investigator for the Mars Orbiter Camera on NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft at Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS), San Diego, CA. Analyzed Meier�s photographs in 1981: "I find the photographs themselves credible, they're good photographs. They appear to represent a real phenomenon. The story that some farmer in Switzerland is on a first name basis with dozens of aliens who come to visit him ... I find that incredible. But I find the photographs more credible. They're reasonable evidence of something. What that something is I don't know." Malin also said, "If the photographs are hoaxes then I am intrigued by the quality of the hoax. How did he do it? I'm always interested in seeing a master at work."

Steve Ambrose: Sound engineer for Stevie Wonder, inventor of the Micro Monitor radio set and speaker that fits inside Wonder's ear, analyzed the Meier sound recordings of one of the UFO�s as it hovered above him. Not only was he unable to duplicate the sounds with synthesizers, he found they created totally unique patterns on a spectrum analyzer and on the oscilloscope. Another sound engineer named Nils Rognerud corroborated Ambrose�s findings. Think about this for just a moment, these experts, using state-of-the-art equipment, were unable to duplicate the sounds and the unique patterns they generated.

Wally Gentleman: Director of Special Effects on the Canadian Film Board for ten years, director of special photographic effects for Stanley Kubrick's film 2001, had viewed Meier�s 8mm film segments of the UFO�s. Showed that the manpower and costs to fake the films were clearly beyond Meier�s reach: "My greatest problem is that for anybody faking this" (referring to one of the photographs) "the shadow that is thrown onto that tree is correct. Therefore, if somebody is faking it they have an expert there. And being an expert myself, I know that that expert knowledge is very hard to come by. So I say, 'Well, is that expert knowledge there or isn't it there?' Because if the expert knowledge isn't there, this has got to be real."

Nippon TV: Did their own examination and also came to the conclusion that there were no models, special effects or hoaxing involved in Meier�s films.

Marcel Vogel: Research chemist for IBM for twenty-two years, held thirty-two patents, and invented the magnetic disk coating memory system still used in IBM disk memories. A specialist in the conversion of energy inside crystals, Vogel probed crystalline structures with the most complete optical microscopic equipment available in the world - a system of scanning electron microscopes costing $250,000. Lieut. Col. Wendelle Stevens, USAF (Ret.): One of the original investigators in the Meier case. In 1979, he sent Vogel crystals and metal samples Meier had received from the Plejarens. Vogel reported, �When I touched the oxide with a stainless steel probe, red streaks appeared and the oxide coating disappeared. I just touched the metal like that, and it started to deoxidize and become a pure metal. I have never seen a phenomenon like that before.� Of another metal sample containing nearly every element in the periodic table, Vogel stated, �Each pure element was bonded to each of the others, yet somehow retained its own identity.� At 500 X magnification thulium was revealed. �Thulium exists only in minute amounts. It is exceedingly expensive, far beyond platinum, and rare to come by. Someone would have to have an extensive metallurgical knowledge even to be aware of a composition of this type", said Vogel. At 1600 X Vogel said, "A whole new world appears in the specimen. There are structures within structures - very unusual." At 2500 X he found that the sample was, �metal, but at the same time ... it is crystal!"

Vogel put the full weight of his expertise in these summary comments: "With any technology that I know of, we could not achieve this on this planet! ... And I think it is important that those of us who are in the scientific world sit down and do some serious study on these things instead of putting it off as people's imagination." Again, here is another top-level scientific specialist who is unable to duplicate the material presented to him by Meier.

I know I said I gave up, but even my own debilities are stronger than me...

Hey, look what I found! Billy Meier�s dino pictures:






I wonder why these don�t look as clear as the beamships pictures...


Anyway, look at this pterodactyl drawing, taken from a book...do you see any similarities?

www.abovetopsecret.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

I know you have a perfect explanation for this, I just want to read it and have a good laugh



BTW, what can you tell us about this vintage ray gun? I would feel very intimidated if someone points that to me...I could get all wet



I love that golden suit...

Originally posted by Peronemlin
Hey, look what I found! Billy Meier�s dino pictures:

Anyway, look at this pterodactyl drawing, taken from a book...do you see any similarities?

I know you have a perfect explanation for this, I just want to read it and have a good laugh

BTW, what can you tell us about this vintage ray gun? I would feel very intimidated if someone points that to me...I could get all wet

How's this for a perfect explanation: They're not his photos. Simple, isn't it? Hopefully this won't dissuade you from trying to make yourself a laughing stock in the future, cuz I kinda get a kick out of it.

As far as the gun, read prior postings. I already covered this.

Having now seen the "faked" Meir dinosaur pictures for hundreth time, it would be cool to actually see the real deal! Is there a link to a site carrying them, �cus I can�t find anything in this humongues thread!
(I might have missed going through a page or two though)

If this guy really has such good connections with Pleadians who let him take pictures of them, why not just park (?!) a spacecraft and get the crew standing beside it?
Alot of pictures are really good, but IMO they always leave a small doubt for various reasons. Some really detailed shots would end speculation pretty quick I�d think.

Originally posted by Aurelius
They're not his photos. Simple, isn't it? Hopefully this won't dissuade you from trying to make yourself a laughing stock in the future, cuz I kinda get a kick out of it.

These are not his photos? well, then show me the real ones...



[edit on 26-7-2004 by Peronemlin]