Images from GAZA - WARNING!!! GRAPHIC

After the 1900's Palestine was ruled by the French in the north and the British in the south.

After WW2 it was decided to partition the lands up equally between the Arabs and the Jews. Here's more.

Partition - The United Nations Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP) recommended that Palestine be divided into an Arab state and a Jewish state. The commission called for Jerusalem to be put under international administration The UN General Assembly adopted this plan on Nov. 29, 1947 as UN Resolution (GA 181), owing to support of both the US and the Soviet Union, and in particular, the personal support of US President Harry S. Truman. Many factors contributed to Truman's decision to support partition, including domestic politics and intense Zionist lobbying, no doubt. Truman wrote in his diary, however, "I think the proper thing to do, and the thing I have been doing, is to do what I think is right and let them all go to hell."

The Jews accepted the UN decision, but the Arabs rejected it. The resolution divided the land into two approximately equal portions in a complicated scheme with zig-zag bordersThe intention was an economic union between the two states with open borders. At the time of partition, slightly less than half the land in all of Palestine was owned by Arabs.


So let me ask you this people who has the deepest historical claim to that region, who can claim it to be the birth place of their people and culture? The Jews can. The Arabs can't they just moved in during the 7th century. Granted they were there for quite a long time. But if you utilize the "king of the hill theory" then it is clear that the french and british then became king of the "hill" in the 1900's and tried to share that hill with both sides after ww2. But the Arabs couldn't handle that. So the kings of the hill handed the reigns to the JEWS and guess what even a coalition of all the arab states couldn't remove them. So if you go by that theory the Jews still have a valid claim. As well About 726,000 Arabs fled or were driven out of Israel and became refugees in neighboring Arab countries. The conflict created about as many Jewish refugees from Arab countries, many of whom were stripped of their property, rights and nationality. The only difference was Israel accepted the Jewish refugees, and the Arab states put the Arab refugees in camps, where many still live in squalor. Truth is most Arabs could care less for the people of Palestine. And if you hear the rhetoric of fellow Muslim's they would like to blow Israel off the map, regardless that 3.76 million Palestinian Arabs live in the West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem. It's just a matter of Religous pride for all Muslims that are not of Palestine descent.

Most in Israel do not oppose a Palestine state, Christ they had their chance at half the country that the jews agreed to, IN THEIR OWN TRUE HOME LAND. So don't try to paint the Jews as the only aggressors and cause of this problem. Both sides need to figure it out but that can't start until the Palestine's recognize Israel's right to exist, just as much as they have the same right. But they need to stop conducting there form of warfare in and around their population, because u shoot at anybody, they are going to shoot back. SO DONT SHOOT STANDING NEXT TO YOUR NON-Combative population.

Originally posted by Sean48
I dont hate the Jews.

I hate what they do.

I would like to correct you here, it is not people from Jewish heritage that do this, it is Zionist. Zionist are not Jews.

The State of Israel was initiated by Zionist movement and a party called Zionist Federation spearheaded by Rothschild (Roths in German means Red and Child means Shield i.e, RedShield also known as Red Hexagram). They control Israel Govt. and it's policies and do not hesitate to make scapegoats of normal Jews like they did during Holocaust.

The real Jews do not accept farce of Zionist and oppose them JewsagainstZionism.

So you should not hate what Jews do but instead oppose what Zionist do. By criticising Jewish people you play into the hands of Zionist. This is what they want people to do to gain more influence.

Even the CIA was aware of this, see this secret report of CIA before the partition of Palestine- CIA: Consequences of Partition of Palestine. They clearly distinguished between Zionist and Jews in their report.


[edit on 16-1-2010 by December_Rain]

[edit on 16-1-2010 by December_Rain]

Originally posted by Pacal Votan

Originally posted by McGinty

If the rockets of an illusive, underground army are killing your countrymen, women & children, but they're being launched from a known civilian locale, what do YOU do? I would not like to be faced with that choice.

Gaza was established by the Egyptian-Israeli armistice agreement in 1949 as a home for Palestinian refugees displaced by the creation of Israel. You do not stand in an ant pile then claim you are a victim because the ants are biting you. are they an illusive underground army or are they a people who are doing what they can to defend their right to live there freely? ever seen a map of the gaza strip? it is a 360 square mile strip of land bordered by egypt, to the south, which does not care about them or turns a blind eye in order to maintain its diplomatic status in the "free world" and is building a massive steel wall along the border. on the west side is the mediterranean sea (saline) which israel maintains control of territorial waters. the remaining border north and east is israel which controls the border. there is no functioning airport. basically these people are in a prison and for what? did these people ask to be there? what was their lif like before 1949? what are they to do?

Yes, more, very valid, questions.

what you describe sounds horrendous and wrong. My point was that i cannot know, or make judgments upon this without having been there just because i've read about it, or seen images of it. It's shocking how many here are ready to utilize second hand intelligence to form judgments. I imagine they'd also like the opportunity of the Pop Idol style phone in to influence the war.

It's fine to bandy about opinions in debate, but the too many have made a decision without even leaving their computer. I don't know what to think about such terrible events and that is not indecisive or on the fence - that is an informed decision.

Sounds like you have made a judgement about the situation - can i ask if it is based upon time spent in this region?

Please don't mistake the fragmented quote above for an opinion or analysis. It is a hypothetical what if that illustrate the nature of the moral dilemma at the heart of such conflict.

reply to post by DarkspARCS


So what's so scary,

The fact that they were using White Phosphorus bombs that is a Chemical
Weapon and should be banned.

Or

The fact that they were made in the Good Ol' USA and sold to Israel which Israel bought
with the money that GWB gave them on the provision that the money not
be spent on weapons of any kind.

reply to post by McGinty


No judgment is based on moral, ethics and humanity. Why is it people who were not living at time of WW2 say Hitler was bad? It's cause they judged the crimes. Same is what people are doing now judging the crimes which is happening in their time.

reply to post by skeptic_al


None of them is scary, scary is World is allowing the Genocide happen allover again. Scary is how the world is turning blind eye to the apartheid Israel.

I'd like to just clarify one thing about my petty opinions, vs. the cold hard truth of the matter, and that is pertaining to the organization HAMAS, I DO agree that if you ask for it you're going to get it.

If you throw a rock, Karma is going to make sure it gets thrown right back at you.

and....

to tell the truth further about my feelings about certain of Arab practices within their culture and religion, there are aspects of it that disgust me... especially when they cut the foreheads of their children with swords and let 'em bleed, or the week of Ramadan, where they wear these bloused pants for the entire week and defecate within them, just to after the week is over with take the crap filled pants off and dump out its contents to read the future with...

wow....

I'm sure that that practice alone alienates alot of people other than myself...

but that never justifies the events those images portray. There is NO justification for it - PERIOD.

And yes... if those images were of "Jewish" Israelis, I'd be on the bandwagon about how wrong the Arabs were - but that is just not the case. Even the IDL itself recently published a statistical report that showed that this assault on GAZA has produced kill ratio numbers well into the genocidal range - roughly 1 jew to every 500 Palestinians is what it looked like... and the kill ratio was in the hundreds of thousands.

On the topic of my previous post, here it is 6:16 A.M. on Saturday morning - well beyond the hour I gave those folks posting thier blabermouth defense of Israel to prove their intelligence or confirm their ignorance and nothing was posted in defense of intelligence, so that concludes my little test of intelligence, showing indeed that the ignorant will remain just that... and unfortunately not feel a bit of shame about it.

Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by McGinty

 

No judgment is based on moral, ethics and humanity. Why is it people who were not living at time of WW2 say Hitler was bad? It's cause they judged the crimes. Same is what people are doing now judging the crimes which is happening in their time.

Your statement is confusing! Surely judgments regarding Hitler have much to do with morals, ethics and humanity!!! Humanism - retribution and compassion - are supposed to be the foundation of justice.

As for people judging things happening in their own time, are you saying this makes it more valid? Are the reports we see of distant lands really that much more reliable that those of distant times when it comes to deciding who is wrong and who is right?

Many seem to forget that their opinions are only as good as the legitimacy of the intelligence they used to form them.

As i said, you're reply is confusing, could you clarify?

Originally posted by seattletruth
American public needs to wake up and lynch anyone who votes to fund these monsters.

Israel should be considered the #1 terrorists. We should be at war with them, not Afghanistan, not Iraq.

Don't worry, you'll get your chance, along with the rest of the world. Read Ezekiel 38, revelation 19. I'll give you a heads up, you won't be on the winning team....

reply to post by McGinty


If it does not make it valid in your view then it does not make it invalid either. It is not confusing for people who can differentiate from right and wrong. Now you do not even have excuse as it is happening in your time and you can go there and witness it yourself if you have any doubt. Provided you are not first shot by IDF on border itself or refused to enter the ghetto called Gaza and West Bank.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by john124
Thanks for the images, you wouldn't see these on BBC news.

If only Hamas had stopped firing rockets and this would never have happened.

putting this on Hamas is disgusting.

dont worry, this guy is just from one of Israels Psychological Operations here to put a spin on anything negative towards Israel.

I say Israel false flags themselves just to do more damage to the Palestinians. So they can say things like "If only HAMAS HAD STOPPED FIRING ROCKETS!!! This would never have happened". For them to further their agenda in Israel they have to get attacked... so they make those 'attacks' happen one way or the other.

I am right there with you, I am disgusted and outraged. This is not the fault of Hamas, this is the fault of the ILLEGAL OCCUPATION! But how many people even know about that. Its DISGUSTING!!!

Originally posted by McGinty

Originally posted by Pacal Votan

Originally posted by McGinty

If the rockets of an illusive, underground army are killing your countrymen, women & children, but they're being launched from a known civilian locale, what do YOU do? I would not like to be faced with that choice.

Gaza was established by the Egyptian-Israeli armistice agreement in 1949 as a home for Palestinian refugees displaced by the creation of Israel. You do not stand in an ant pile then claim you are a victim because the ants are biting you. are they an illusive underground army or are they a people who are doing what they can to defend their right to live there freely? ever seen a map of the gaza strip? it is a 360 square mile strip of land bordered by egypt, to the south, which does not care about them or turns a blind eye in order to maintain its diplomatic status in the "free world" and is building a massive steel wall along the border. on the west side is the mediterranean sea (saline) which israel maintains control of territorial waters. the remaining border north and east is israel which controls the border. there is no functioning airport. basically these people are in a prison and for what? did these people ask to be there? what was their lif like before 1949? what are they to do?

Yes, more, very valid, questions.

what you describe sounds horrendous and wrong. My point was that i cannot know, or make judgments upon this without having been there just because i've read about it, or seen images of it. It's shocking how many here are ready to utilize second hand intelligence to form judgments. I imagine they'd also like the opportunity of the Pop Idol style phone in to influence the war.

It's fine to bandy about opinions in debate, but the too many have made a decision without even leaving their computer. I don't know what to think about such terrible events and that is not indecisive or on the fence - that is an informed decision.

Sounds like you have made a judgement about the situation - can i ask if it is based upon time spent in this region?

Please don't mistake the fragmented quote above for an opinion or analysis. It is a hypothetical what if that illustrate the nature of the moral dilemma at the heart of such conflict.

greetings friend

i do not want to turn this in to a debate over religion but i want to answer your question about my understanding and not judgement. i state it as an understanding because i can never make a judgement as they are final and i have found that in order to grow in a mental and spiritual sense one cannot make a conclusion and must be open to all possibilities.

6 years ago I was one of these people who blindly defend israel's right to do this and felt it was this countries duty to defend israel at all costs. after all they are god's chosen people, god put them there and the u.s. was founded on christian principles (i believed). i was programmed to be a christian at an early age and i do not fault my parent as she feared for my soul due to her programming from childhood as well. i was just another generation in the cycle.

my awakening began, oddly enough, as a result of a report on easter candy. in 2004 the population of the planet spent an estimated $7 BILLION on easter candy ($2 BILLION in the u.s.a.) it was then that i began to wonder if this is what jesus had in mind when he was hanging from the cross. i found myself faced with yet another holiday that was supposed to be about jesus and his teachings, instead it had become a consumer driven joke. i began seeking. what is christmas? what is easter? what is the bible?

what i have learned so far is that belief is blinding. terrence mckenna stated something
along the lines of "once you state you believe something, then you close off all other possibilities."

we have and are being deceived. this is about the bread and circus.

reply to post by Pacal Votan


The last things Palestinians are going to do is fire rocets from civilian areas and then take off never to be caught. Thats SOMEONE ELSE IN DISGUISE that has easy access to rocets.

There is no way the Palestinians are going to do that to Israel, they know the consequences. It makes me sick.

To all the yanks whining on about the evils of Israel, the majority of your foreign aid goes to these monsters, it's your money paying for this!

The Jews stole the land though emotional blackmail, they want to take it out on anyone they should go and pick on the Germans not piss poor people who had everything taken from them taken though force.

If I was a Palestinian I’d be firing rockets into the illegal state of Israel, as Andy Mcnab said (a SF veteran from the troubles) if he a was a catholic from Belfast he would be an IRA soldier not a member of the British army. How many hamas fireworks have killed Jews compared to the amount of Palestinians killed by high tech American ordinance, the yellow bellies are week and fight unfair, the Jews have it coming to them and I have no sympathy for them.

Worth of human life.....

Iv never understant the need, the need to fight. Why ? As long as there has been humans, there has been wars and deaths...to accomplish what ?

"War. War never changes"

I wish powerful images like these would make it into the mainstream media, it really would show people who are "protected by the blinds" of censorship.

It would make people, think and learn.

Needs to be done.

Good find OP.

To see so many children hurt and killed can only mean one thing. Israeli soldiers are very lazy. They would rather push a button for a missile than have to walk around and choose targets. Maybe if they didn't have the missiles they would be more cautious about killing civilians.

Originally posted by Pacal Votan

Originally posted by McGinty

Originally posted by Pacal Votan

Originally posted by McGinty

If the rockets of an illusive, underground army are killing your countrymen, women & children, but they're being launched from a known civilian locale, what do YOU do? I would not like to be faced with that choice.

Gaza was established by the Egyptian-Israeli armistice agreement in 1949 as a home for Palestinian refugees displaced by the creation of Israel. You do not stand in an ant pile then claim you are a victim because the ants are biting you. are they an illusive underground army or are they a people who are doing what they can to defend their right to live there freely? ever seen a map of the gaza strip? it is a 360 square mile strip of land bordered by egypt, to the south, which does not care about them or turns a blind eye in order to maintain its diplomatic status in the "free world" and is building a massive steel wall along the border. on the west side is the mediterranean sea (saline) which israel maintains control of territorial waters. the remaining border north and east is israel which controls the border. there is no functioning airport. basically these people are in a prison and for what? did these people ask to be there? what was their lif like before 1949? what are they to do?

Yes, more, very valid, questions.

what you describe sounds horrendous and wrong. My point was that i cannot know, or make judgments upon this without having been there just because i've read about it, or seen images of it. It's shocking how many here are ready to utilize second hand intelligence to form judgments. I imagine they'd also like the opportunity of the Pop Idol style phone in to influence the war.

It's fine to bandy about opinions in debate, but the too many have made a decision without even leaving their computer. I don't know what to think about such terrible events and that is not indecisive or on the fence - that is an informed decision.

Sounds like you have made a judgement about the situation - can i ask if it is based upon time spent in this region?

Please don't mistake the fragmented quote above for an opinion or analysis. It is a hypothetical what if that illustrate the nature of the moral dilemma at the heart of such conflict.

greetings friend

i do not want to turn this in to a debate over religion but i want to answer your question about my understanding and not judgement. i state it as an understanding because i can never make a judgement as they are final and i have found that in order to grow in a mental and spiritual sense one cannot make a conclusion and must be open to all possibilities.

6 years ago I was one of these people who blindly defend israel's right to do this and felt it was this countries duty to defend israel at all costs. after all they are god's chosen people, god put them there and the u.s. was founded on christian principles (i believed). i was programmed to be a christian at an early age and i do not fault my parent as she feared for my soul due to her programming from childhood as well. i was just another generation in the cycle.

my awakening began, oddly enough, as a result of a report on easter candy. in 2004 the population of the planet spent an estimated $7 BILLION on easter candy ($2 BILLION in the u.s.a.) it was then that i began to wonder if this is what jesus had in mind when he was hanging from the cross. i found myself faced with yet another holiday that was supposed to be about jesus and his teachings, instead it had become a consumer driven joke. i began seeking. what is christmas? what is easter? what is the bible?

what i have learned so far is that belief is blinding. terrence mckenna stated something
along the lines of "once you state you believe something, then you close off all other possibilities."

we have and are being deceived. this is about the bread and circus.

All wise words there. The lesson is that we should take nothing fro granted unless it is first hand experience. What saddens me hear is that so many seem to be making judgments without that first hand knowledge and assuming they are sound judgments. It's sad because the very point of ATS is that we are not partisan - we have a chance to debate things in a way MSM doesn't. However, this thread has instantly become a shouting match between two entrenched sides.

I don't rule out belief in religion, since faith, by definition is making a judgement without all of the information. But that's between you and you're God and it's dangerous to employ such faith in our own assumptions about the actions of humans; in that circus it's never as simple as right and wrong.

Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by McGinty

 

If it does not make it valid in your view then it does not make it invalid either. It is not confusing for people who can differentiate from right and wrong. Now you do not even have excuse as it is happening in your time and you can go there and witness it yourself if you have any doubt. Provided you are not first shot by IDF on border itself or refused to enter the ghetto called Gaza and West Bank.

I'm not confused about the photographs, i'm confused about your reasoning - it's a little paradoxical:

Right and wrong are absolutes and absolutes are not open to interpretation - either something is right or wrong, valid or invalid.

Anyhow, i think we're probably confusing one another now with semantics.

I certainly don't want to offend your strong opinions about this. Would i be right in thinking that from the strength of your beliefs you must have been to Gaza and seen it for yourself?

what a delightful treat. we can watch the remain of children and father holding their once breathing infant on our comfortable couch while drinking a hot cup of tea. what else can you do? nothing.

those anti-personnel are spectacular aren't they? very impressive. i'd like to speak to the mind behind that weapon, would make a wonderful ally. ahh the beautiful sight of a civilized nation in action.

the look of anguish on the faces of those men, priceless. they're at a loss for word to describe what they feel. all they can muster is a low scream out of pain at the sight of their dead babies in their arm. he will be feeling this for the rest of his life. and someone has just made an enemy for life, just don't cry when they become terrorist.