Madeleine McCann 'Died In Holiday Apartment'

About the unanswered questions, I would like to point that if she was a witness she had to answer, being an arguida she has that protection.

Originally posted by 00112245712198
The control of the media, Government involvement/ interference, visits to the Pope, legal precedents, Portuguese Government rolling over, blatant witness intimidation, D notices and attempts at internet censorship are not at the behest of a pair of run of the mill doctors.....Ruperts media has actually been spreading propaganda and portraying the McCanns in a positive light....Why ?

Someone or something HUGE is behind all this.... None of the T9 are related to any big hitters..

Your whole post is quite interesting.

I think you are right that there is more to this story than is being told to the public. The British government were able to get the Portugese government to approach Amaral and say to him, "look, nobody is going to be upset if this investigation goes nowhere and is left unresolved", or words to that effect.

That kind of thing can only be achieved at the highest level. I think that Gerry McCann was calling in debt owed to him by someone, perhaps the British prime minister's brother.

This implies a couple of things. One, that Gerry knows something that the British government of the day wanted kept quiet. Two, that the Portugese government got something in return for their cooperation with the British government, a quid pro quo.

Believe me, there are people who know the truth of this story, besides the McCanns, but they are high in British and Portugese government circles.

reply to post by unicorn1


hmmmmm......

Ok, check out the 48 questions www.dailymail.co.uk...

for example: actually have a look? seriously... there is no way a lawyer would advise no comment on these 'basic' but vital questions....

A QUESTION SHE DID ANSWER

Q. Are you aware that in not answering the questions you are jeopardizing the investigation, which seeks to discover what happened to your daughter?

A. 'Yes, if that’s what the investigation thinks.'

Originally posted by Power_Semi
If the detective is right about the body being refrigerated, or at least kept somewhere cool, then surely it must be possible to find where it was kept. . . .

So where could you hide/refrigerate/keep a body cool where no one is likely to find it for a few weeks?

It would be interesting to know what yachts were moored in the marina at that time and who owned them.

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by Power_Semi
If the detective is right about the body being refrigerated, or at least kept somewhere cool, then surely it must be possible to find where it was kept. . . .

So where could you hide/refrigerate/keep a body cool where no one is likely to find it for a few weeks?

It would be interesting to know what yachts were moored in the marina at that time and who owned them.

I'm now wondering why the priest who was so helpful to them in the first day or so, doesn't want anything to do with them!! Maybe they confessed to him and because of his position he cannot tell anyone! Maybe they coerced him into helping them somehow!

I did a google search but couldn't find anything helpful on this - has anyone investigated the possibility that Madeleine was sold by her parents?

If she was sold to high-profile people it would be better for them if the public suspected the parents of a murder that couldn't be proved.

I did have a gut feeling from the start that something was not quite right or that the truth wasn't quite how it was being presented to us.

Interesting thread .... OK I am going to ramble a little now and think aloud for a bit. These are wild ideas and nothing more (probably from watching too much TV), but it does seem that the more you dig into this case, the stranger it gets.

Kate said "They" have taken her - why would she say that? I have always found this strange. If your child was kidapped this is a funny way of raising the alarm. Makes it sound like it was almost something that had been arranged or that she was expecting to happen.

Was Gerry being blackmailed? Is that why he was hating every minute of this holiday and seemed so angry? Is this why Gerry and Kate cannot be touched - because of a payment (Maddie) that has been made to some very powerful people who cannot be named?

Was Maddie taken because she was a clone/result of an experiment in genetics/DNA manipulation/radiation. Someone commented earlier on the rare genetic illness that she had and the marker in her eye. Also there was something about Maddie's parentage.

Was this a result of something to do with the radiation that Gerry advises on? Maybe he found out something about the company and threatened to whistleblow, but they got to him first and took Maddie to keep him from telling, leaving it possible to frame him and Kate if they spoke up. Was his anger caused by what he knew and that he could do nothing to stop them.

reply to post by ArMaP


No she wasn't and if you look at the sign in book at the child care Kate McCanns signature changes and there is even an entry as Kate Healey, her maiden name.I believe Jane Tanner and Russel Obriens daughter was used in Madeleines place.....

Obrien was away from the table for some 45 minutes (alledgedly on May 3), had to change his pants due to one of the children vomitting.Curiously Obrien when attending the pretendy interviews in England was reinterviewed making huge changes to his original statement, even more curious is the claim there is limited footage of the interview as the machine wasnt recording.

By May 3 , imo, the stage was set and time for the show to begin.

reply to post by 00112245712198

According to the owner and other staff from the "Paraíso" restaurant, she was seen there in the afternoon.

The restaurant owner even gave the tapes from the security cameras to the police.

About four hours before she disappeared mysteriously, on May 3, Madeleine went along with two brothers and friends to the "Paraíso" restaurant near the beach in the area, moments of joy and relaxation, witnessed by restaurant staff. In what was considered as a "perfectly normal, relaxed, happy and family" scenario, the owner of that establishment, Miguel Matias, speaking to the DN, the child "even danced on the terrace with her father" to the sound of music. Before they left, "about 17:45/18:00 hours, after they entered "around 17:00 hours," Madeleine still tasted an ice cream after dinner.

"We were incredulous when we heard what happened, because nobody could foresee any tragedy. We have not seen anyone suspicious looking at the child or at the people at the tables. Nor any abnormal situation between the families and children, nor, for example, a simple scolding," said Miguel Matias, based on the images that he had the opportunity to see from the video surveillance system installed inside his restaurant, as at the time he was not on site. Researchers from the Judicial Police (PJ), who visited a few days later at the restaurant when they were alerted by staff to the existence of these files, limited to "thank the generous act" of the transfer of the film, having got the system's hard disk video recording.

Source (in Portuguese)

reply to post by ArMaP


The footage was unable to show the McCanns were at the Paraiso.

Here is a link where the McCanns deny even setting foot in the Paraiso until three weeks after Madeleine went missing........This is despite the fact claiming to be there would actually help clear up where they were for the missing hours of May 3 2007.

news.scotsman.com...

Strangely enough the McCanns were the only family that never went to the Paraiso on that day....

Gerry was apparently playing tennis...

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by 00112245712198
The control of the media, Government involvement/ interference, visits to the Pope, legal precedents, Portuguese Government rolling over, blatant witness intimidation, D notices and attempts at internet censorship are not at the behest of a pair of run of the mill doctors.....Ruperts media has actually been spreading propaganda and portraying the McCanns in a positive light....Why ?

Someone or something HUGE is behind all this.... None of the T9 are related to any big hitters..

Your whole post is quite interesting.

I think you are right that there is more to this story than is being told to the public. The British government were able to get the Portugese government to approach Amaral and say to him, "look, nobody is going to be upset if this investigation goes nowhere and is left unresolved", or words to that effect.

That kind of thing can only be achieved at the highest level. I think that Gerry McCann was calling in debt owed to him by someone, perhaps the British prime minister's brother.

This implies a couple of things. One, that Gerry knows something that the British government of the day wanted kept quiet. Two, that the Portugese government got something in return for their cooperation with the British government, a quid pro quo.

Believe me, there are people who know the truth of this story, besides the McCanns, but they are high in British and Portugese government circles.

I completely agree that a deal was made between the Governments of Great Britain and Portugal....

Goncalo Amaral suffered a character and career assassination not unlike that of Lenny Harper who was investigating the childrens home in Jersey..

The links between Gerry McCann and Andrew Brown I have known about for a while.If Gordon Brown had such influence over the media I think he'd currently be saving himself.Also worth noting that Tony Blair was the PM when this all began and he dispatched Justine McGuinness straight away...Ambassadorial support was there by midnight May 3.

If it was as straight forward as Gerry blackmailing the Government I think he would have met his maker a long, long time ago.....

Gerry flying back to the UK to fetch one of Madeleines pillow cases to obtain DNA was strange, he helped a man that had taken ill on the flight (this man has never been ID'd), stranger yet he had his wallet stolen (allegedly) ended up at an old friends home in Holland and was returned to him minus the cash.I have wondered if he was handing something over...

The McCanns did live in Holland in the early part of the decade and I believe they received there IVF treatment there....

Some people believe that he was using his blogs to communicate with people involved in this case knowing that his phones were likely being monitored...I believe this to be the case....



[edit on 23-1-2010 by 00112245712198]

Originally posted by roblin
I'm now wondering why the priest who was so helpful to them in the first day or so, doesn't want anything to do with them!! Maybe they confessed to him and because of his position he cannot tell anyone! Maybe they coerced him into helping them somehow!

I haven't been following this story at all.

It is true though that a Catholic priest cannot reveal what was told to him in confession, no matter what it was. It does make it interesting.

If it is true though, and they were so guilt stricken that they consulted a priest, then it is affecting them more than they're letting on to the public. Sometimes the guilt of unconfessed sin is the worst punishment one can have on this earth.

I do not think the priest would have helped them though.

Originally posted by slinkey10

Originally posted by Kailassa
So I answered every question they asked and gave them 100% co-operation so they could check me out as fast as possible and get on with the investigation.

Sorry if I misunderstood your post...Are you saying team McCann are innocent or guilty...?

Drawing on your experience, why would someone not answer the Police's questions?

You answered the questions, why would a caring worried mother like KM not answer 48 questions posed to her?

edit to add: IMO its all abt the fridge...

At the very least, they are guilty of not giving a damn about their daughter.

Yes, I agree the fridge thing is important.
I believe the fridge at the local church was used. They had a large one.

The McCanns are guilty, Gerry of being part of a ring of paedophiles who shared their children, and Kate of covering up. However it was not either of them who killed Madeleine, they did not expect that.

I just don't understand why Kate ever got into such a group. What was in it for her?

Originally posted by unicorn1
I agree Kate not answering the questions looks suspicious. But just to play devils advocate, she was probably so advised by her lawyer. She was after all dealing with a foreign justice system and fighting to keep her family together. There were the twins to consider.
That said, too many things just don't add up here.

A real parent worries about the missing child. Other worries, even other children, will be almost forgotten in the parent's desperate effort to get their child back.

Unless they know for a certainty the child is gone forever.

Originally posted by 00112245712198
If it was as straight forward as Gerry blackmailing the Government I think he would have met his maker a long, long time ago.....

I didn't mean to imply blackmail necessarily, more along the lines of his being an insider privy to inside knowledge and the government prudently taking care of one of it's own, because if it didn't, who knows what might start to come apart under the stress of the situation.

Gerry flying back to the UK to fetch one of Madeleines pillow cases to obtain DNA was strange,

One would think it would be available in Prahia da Luz.

(There is a lot of controversy about their movements and their communications. During her first interrogation at the police station, Kate was texting Justine McGuinness via a cell phone in her lap while the interrogation was going on. These people are not shrinking violets.)

My understanding is that enough DNA indicators to identify Madeleine were found in the fluids from the car. I believe 15 matches are needed for a legal identification. They found 17 matches but from a larger pool than would be present if only one person's DNA were there. That was because DNA from other members of the family was also present and, unfortunately for the process of identifying Madeleine, some of the legally required matches could have come from other family members.

For legal purposes, meaning for use as evidence in a court proceeding, Madeleine's DNA cannot be said to have been found in the Renault Scenic. For intuitive purposes of detection, however I think a responsible police officer could be forgiven for not saying, "Alright Kate and Gerry, you're off the hook. We're going to start combing the world relentlessly, for Madeleine, because obviously, there is nothing suspicious about your rental car."

In theory, if enough money and time could be put into DNA testing, it might be possible to compare Madeleine's DNA with that of her family members and to isolate elements of that DNA which are uniquely hers, and then to search for those elements in the samples recovered from the rental car. If none of these was found, then we could say that her DNA was probably not in the car. I think Amaral would tend to view the matter more like that.

he helped a man that had taken ill on the flight (this man has never been ID'd), stranger yet he had his wallet stolen (allegedly) ended up at an old friends home in Holland and was returned to him minus the cash.I have wondered if he was handing something over...

Bizarre. Strange things do happen, but this case abounds in oddities.

Some people believe that he was using his blogs to communicate with people involved in this case knowing that his phones were likely being monitored...I believe this to be the case....

I think this sort of communication, if it did occur would be minimal, like "I'm fine." or "Trouble. We need to meet." I wouldn't be surprised if it occurred. There is solidarity among the Tapas 9. Are some of them having the wool pulled over their eyes?

It would be interesting to hear some of their private conversation.

One thing that bugs me is that a charge of child neglect or child endangerment could entail getting every one of them on the stand talking about the details of everyone's movements that night, and subject to hostile questioning. In fact it might be possible to charge every parent among them with child endangerment.

The very tight grip that everyone has on the beans might begin to loosen.



[edit on 23-1-2010 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by Jessicamsa

Originally posted by roblin
I'm now wondering why the priest who was so helpful to them in the first day or so, doesn't want anything to do with them!! Maybe they confessed to him and because of his position he cannot tell anyone! Maybe they coerced him into helping them somehow!

I haven't been following this story at all.

It is true though that a Catholic priest cannot reveal what was told to him in confession, no matter what it was. It does make it interesting.

If it is true though, and they were so guilt stricken that they consulted a priest, then it is affecting them more than they're letting on to the public. Sometimes the guilt of unconfessed sin is the worst punishment one can have on this earth.

I do not think the priest would have helped them though.

Father Pacheco would be ex communicated if he revealed what he was told.

Pacheco was caned by his superiors for giving the McCanns keys to the Church, refuses to talk about them and feels he was deceived.......John Geraghty a UK ex patriot is part of this congregation and offered to store the McCanns vehicle that would later show Madeleines DNA in the boot.

Interestingly the Vatican had details of the affair on there website, these details would be removed one week before they were made Arguidos...

www.dailymail.co.uk...

An Anglican Priest Haynes Hubbard and his wife Susan from Canada became a support for the McCanns.The McCanns would also visit the Hubbards on a visit to Canada.

In fairness to the McCanns, apparently they expressed a willingness to submit to a lie detector test, according to a newspaper account published in September of 2007.

This may have been a public relations gesture though, because according to their spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, lie detector results are not admissible as evidence in Portugese courts and there was no expectation that the Portugese authorities would request one.

news.scotsman.com...

It emerged yesterday that the McCanns, who are official suspects, or arguidos, were prepared to take a lie detector test to show they had nothing to hide.

But Clarence Mitchell, their spokesman, said the couple would do so only if asked by the Portuguese police, adding there were some doubts about the reliability of such evidence.

He said: "Kate and Gerry McCann have nothing to hide and, if a request from the Portuguese authorities was made for them to undergo such a lie detector test, they would have no issue with it, provided the test is suitably overseen.

"However, it is my understanding that such machines are not used in Portuguese criminal cases, nor is the information from them deemed admissible in court, and there are question marks over their reliability.

"Therefore, we think it is extremely unlikely that such a request for a test would come through."

I wonder if they are still willing to submit to a lie detector test. I wonder if they were requested to do so for the program done on them by 48 Hours.

[edit on 24-1-2010 by ipsedixit]

reply to post by ipsedixit


There was talk that one of the T9 could have been MI5...I still struggle to believe that would explain all the cover up.Gerry also aspired to become a Labour MP.

One would think it would be available in Pradia da Luz.

Correct.Room 5A had been properly cleaned, no finger prints of the children, no hairs nothing.Almost like they were NEVER there. The English refused to hand over the requested bank account details of the McCanns....From the get go they had balls of steel...They knew they were covered... Mobile phone records weren't fully forthcoming, neither were medical records.The Portuguese court wouldnt allow the admittance of intercepted text messages.No friends or colleagues in the UK have come forward either to talk about the couple...Almost like they have no friends or colleagues..

The DNA is a massive part of the case.....The Forensic Science Service in the UK in the first report said the samples were a match to Madeleine, then in a second report backtracked and said they couldnt be sure....The Portuguese asked for the samples to be returned but the English said NO they have been destroyed... If the Portuguese had the balls to push the issue they could have had the lot of them for child neglect at the very least.Apparently the Paynes had a baby monitor with them as they dined...Im not sure if they have a range of 150m though.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Kate initially offered to take a lie detector test only to then refused when her offer was accepted..

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Originally posted by 00112245712198
The footage was unable to show the McCanns were at the Paraiso.

Really? Could you point to some source of that information? Thanks in advance.