Madeleine McCann 'Died In Holiday Apartment'

Originally posted by Jessicamsa

Originally posted by lifecitizen
The McCanns know exactly what happened to Maddie.

Just like the Ramseys know (knew in Patsy's case) what happened to JonBenet.

The Ramsey case has nothing to do with this.

The Ramseys were cleared of the matter finally and an apology was issued anyway.

I realise that they are two different cases- I was merely pointing out the similairities between the two- justice will never be forthcoming in either cases- jmo

The city of Boulder just wanted the case to go away- the DA Mary Lacy was a incompetent fool- remember the Carr fiasco?- she perpetuated the lie and obstructed justice- just like in the McCann case the cover up went far beyond that of the parents.

Strangely powerful, too, the McCann camp

They closed down The Three Arguidos, which was a very active forum in the UK dedicated to analysing the case -- to analysing what were said to be (and certainly appeared to be) a lot of very dodgy photos claimed to be 'of Madeleine'

and which was dedicated to analysing Gerry's blog (don't think I'd have the time or heart to write a daily blog for the 'fans' .. all about sprinkles on ice-cream and jogging times) and the contents of that blog which some say was coded in order to caution/warn/update other members of a certain group whose conventional communications systems were very likely being monitored closely by certain authorities active in the case (officially and otherwise)


Yep. Strangely powerful

Now ... how many have the sort of power which could pervert justice in the eyes of the world ... and cow the media and politicians and even entire investigators in half a dozen separate nations ? Not to mention being able to rope in big-name US talk-show hosts/hostesses ?

Powerful ! Swinging BIG sticks !


Sure. A handful of 'self-made millionaires' who'd managed to grab themselves a 'knighthood' (for their services to industry via cheap clothing and air travel) openly backed the parents and flew them and their friends in and out of Portugal

but there has to be MORE at the back, wouldn't you say ?

All of which, of course, forces the 'ignorant, easily-fooled' people of the world to suspect BIG reputations could be in danger of toppling if the 'stupid Sheep' were allowed to discuss this too much online


Yes. We're 'stupid sheepies', aren't we ? Sure we are. The powerful-ones like to think so, anyway

We couldn't put two and two together if we had all day

Which must be the reason it's deemed necessary to monitor and control .. even close us down ... any time we look at the evidence together and start putting pieces together

Hush now folks. All this thinking about this case is judged as 'too much' for our tiny brains. We should leave it to the 'experts' ... as always, they tell us what we should believe. They have the power to close down fora. We must bow as always to their dictates and go back to studying blurry photos of 'aliens'

[edit on 18-1-2010 by Dock9]

I feel rather divided on this issue now. For me it used to be about the emotional connection I felt when seeing that girl's face on TV - so innocent and happy. Yes, I was also angry at the parents for being so irresponsible, but the sympathy I felt for the girl made that almost irrelevant in the beginning.

To find out now that it is possible they lied and deceived millions around the world for financial gain, made so many people invest time and effort into finding a little girl that didn't go missing, and successfully covered up their manslaughter of an innocent child...

That's why I am divided on the issue. I know there is no irrefutable evidence yet to suggest the McCans did do these things, but it seems likely that they did. Thanks for all the contributions made in this thread - it has definitely opened up my eyes and made me think deeper about the whole situation and its aftermath.

I was watching a psychic program a few weeks ago.

The interviewer asked the psychic about this case and the response was "I feel i could help but the mcanns dont want to use psychics"

I have a daughter of similiar age and i can assure you 100% that i would try anything that may help me find her. That would include anything! Even something i didnt believe in.

When i heard they refused psychic help i immediately thought something was up?

I mean, surely you have to exhaust every avenue that may help? Whether your beliefs stand in the way or not.

Peace

reply to post by Dock9


hi there,

thanks for the informative posting, could you please pm me with some more details on the alleged photos that were supposedly analyzied ?

thanks

reply to post by Holist1c


one simple answer [ to the question " why do the mcanns reject ` psychic help ` " ? is thier religious faith [ right or wrong ]

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Holist1c

 

one simple answer [ to the question " why do the mcanns reject ` psychic help ` " ? is thier religious faith [ right or wrong ]

The simple point im making is,i'd do anything if there was a possibility of finding my daughter,whether it went against my religious faith or not!

If it was me,i'm sure in years to come i'd sit back and wonder if i'd exhausted every possible angle of finding her. If i had done that, i'd feel at least some kind of peace, had i realised i hadn't, then i'm sure i'd regret it.

We are all different though, maybe i just assumed that anyone who loves there child would go to any length and try anything to find them.

Peace

im not a huge beliver in religion or the parnormal, but if i thought for 1 second that having help from these people would find my missing daughter, I would do it in a heart beat. So it does beg the question, what are they afraid will be found? there are too many unanswered questions for me to belive the mccans dont know what happened to madaline...

[edit on 19-1-2010 by squidley_35]

reply to post by Holist1c


just for rthe recoird and so that you proipperly understand my views - i have zero religious faith - and a lower opinion of " psychic detectives "

sir what you are suggesting is the ` thin end of the wedge `

you imply that the mcanns should employ these psychics - simply because you and or otthers believe in them - even though it may run contrary to thier religious believes ??

i cannot find a pertinant scritural passage - but i know thier are bilblical references denouncing fortune telling etc etc

if the mcanns are sufficiently religious - might they not be awaiting ` a sign from god ` to answer thier prayers ?

now returning to ` the thin end of the wedge ` - where do you propose they stop ?

assuming they do consult a psychic detective - what then ?

is the next step to slaughter a goat and examine its entrails [ yes i am being facecious ] - but people DO believe that goat entrails provide useful augaries

so why not demand that the mcanns examine the entrails too ?? that is afterall your precice argument for them using a psychic detective


reply to post by squidley_35


IMHO - your acusation that ` what are they afraid will be discovered ? [ by psychics ] `

is irrelevant - " psychic detectives " have been opinining on the case sonce day 2 - the mccanns cannot stop them - but they can refuse to use them in thier own inquiries

further - both the bitish and portugese police are still invistigating the case [ at various levels ] and so are paid and unpaid detectives / investigators of various abilities - working independantly , for various press agiences etc etc - or just for the glory / fame of solving the case

i cannot furnish cites - but i have seen 2 press stories in the UK recently that relied wholey or partially on the opinions of " psychic detectives " in the mcann case

reply to post by ignorant_ape


As I said Im not a huge beliver in the paranormal or religion, but if i thought it would help id use them. If someone gave me a compelling argument that the entrails of a goat could help me find my child id use them too...

[edit on 19-1-2010 by squidley_35]

Police forces rarely if ever use psychics any more. Frankly they are useless. A lot of play is given when they get something right by sheer guesswork. But statistically their hit to miss ratio is below even random probability.

Like a lot of New Age stuff including remote sensing, sensing vibrations, etc - crystal ball gazing doesn't really work.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
if the mcanns are sufficiently religious - might they not be awaiting ` a sign from god ` to answer thier prayers ?

Nor am i religious in anyway,i've been in a church maybe twice in my life.

I tell you this though, i would pray that my daughter would be found. I've never prayed but if put in a desperate situation i'm sure i'd try it,why not?
As i said earlier i'd try anything.

The McCans investment of the money raised for the Maddie fund has done what exactly? I'm sure she still hasnt been found yet? Therefore maybe they should exercise some different methods by thinking "outside there box", unless they dont really want to find her? I certainly would.

Maybe their sign from god did come in the shape of something they were never willing to try? How would they know that if they didnt even give it a chance.

Peace

There WAS psychic involvement whether or not it was requested. I remember people offering up visions etc as to where she was and I think some leads were investigated.
But I don't think there was any consensus as to what had happened. Which for me casts some doubt on the legitimacy of psychic claims in general.
Anyway here is a question for the super sleuths out there. If the apartment was left unlocked as reported and you returned to find your child missing, why would you automatically assume the child has been abducted?

[edit on 19-1-2010 by unicorn1]

Originally posted by unicorn1
There WAS psychic involvement whether or not it was requested. I remember people offering up visions etc as to where she was and I think some leads were investigated.
But I don't think there was any consensus as to what had happened. Which for me casts some doubt on the legitimacy of psychic claims in general.

Ofcourse, thats fair enough, my original point was the fact that they weren't willing to try something that may help find there child.

I guess it's a case of differing opinions, some of us would be willing to try/do anything, others wouldn't.

Either way, i hope that closure comes sooner rather than later, even if it transpires that the parents had something to do with it, at least those who love the child can have a bit more peace.

Peace

reply to post by Dock9




Good post.

I wouldn't worry about ATS getting closed down because of this investigation, although if it does (the thread anyway) we'll know at least who's behind it and just what influence they have.

I say post any and all evidence you have and let's go through it and try and get a little further with the "Investigation"

Cheers

Originally posted by unicorn1
here is a question for the super sleuths out there. If the apartment was left unlocked as reported and you returned to find your child missing, why would you automatically assume the child has been abducted?

You've never been around kids. The ongoing fear of parents especially with a young daughter, is that their child will be taken away from them. Embedded instinctual parental fear is their child will be abducted, harmed, raped, murdered.

It's the first and overriding thought any parent has even when their kid has just is out of sight or not where they are expected to be.

reply to post by mmiichael

Why would you automatically think your child had been abducted? Im sure my 1st thought would be that my daughter had woken up and gone to find me and got lost...

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by unicorn1
You've never been around kids. The ongoing fear of parents especially with a young daughter, is that their child will be taken away from them. Embedded instinctual parental fear is their child will be abducted, harmed, raped, murdered.

It's the first and overriding thought any parent has even when their kid has just is out of sight or not where they are expected to be.

Surely not the FIRST thing one thinks of in this situation? My first thoughts would be where is she? I would look through the rest of the apartment! I would check out every possibility before that thought crossed my mind! I would NOT automatically think she had been abducted in the fist instance.

reply to post by Dock9


I think a lot of the behavior of the McCanns can be explained by their high IQs and their medical backround. If one analyses the case carefully, and by the case I mean the McCann's particular situation from the moment that something happened to Madeleine, onward, It becomes clear that prioritising their response to the situation was critical.

This is because they faced two very dangerous threats. Ranking these two threats is critical to understanding the McCanns behavior.

There is no doubt that charges of child neglect or child endangerment were the most serious and potentially damaging danger that they faced.

A lot of the confusions in their story arose from the necessity to defend themselves and if possible forestall being brought up on those charges.

To even face those charges in a court of law would be very damaging to their futures. To be convicted of those charges would be a complete disaster in their lives. It could mean the loss of everything, in the literal sense of the word.

The big problem is that no matter what happened to Madeleine, there is very little doubt that if brought into court on a charge of child neglect or child endangerment, there is virtually no doubt that they would be found guilty.

I have no doubt in my mind that Kate and Gerry could tell you the exact statute of limitations on those charges.

In the case of the situation with Madeleine, either they know she is dead because they disposed of her body, or they know that there is a high probability that she is dead, because that is usually what happens to kidnapped children.

Gerry makes much of the notion that to admit of the possibility that Madeleine is dead will only serve to sabotage the hunt for her, but the far more dangerous result of such an admission or concession is that the issue of child endangerment or neglect would then come off the back burner and the McCanns would be faced once more with by far the most serious danger ranged against them.

In my opinion Gerry and Kate are fighting a war on two fronts, or really two different wars. The first war is to keep people focused on the hunt for Madeleine. The second war is to keep child endangerment from becoming a possible criminal charge against them.

With a lot of help from friends, they are doing extremely well in both wars. The way they have succeeded in mowing down the sniffer dogs is nothing short of spectacular.