Islam4UK Banned under Terror Laws.

As i predicted the islam4uk march didn't go ahead at Wotton Basset.Now it seems, Islam4UK has been banned under the Terror laws. so hopefully people will stop banging on about sharia law taking over the country. it seems Islam4UK pushed things too far this time and the Government has finnaly taken notice.

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by woodwardjnr

I think people condemning it and the general attitude towards what the website represented is exactly what got it banned.
There was no way they were gonna let this happen. There would have been violence. Whoa people were mad!! It was good to see.

I think they banned it to piss off the protesters and provoke them towards some sort of violent reactions.

I mean, banning a Islamic protest? You are asking for it now!

I am glad I don't live there today!

Well look on the bright side, you did not draw any cartoons of Allah.

As with most countries, whenever it seen that the memory of the servicemen and woman are seen to be being desecrated the goverment are forced into action weather they want to or not knowing that issues such as this are sacrosanct.

Take the issue of the students that urinated over the war memorials that appeared in the UK papers recently. The police were called into action as the vigilante gangs had sworn to track these people down and extract their own brand of punishment.

The 'islam4uk' group were venturing into dangerous territory also as groups of ex-serviceman were planning a large showing in the town which would have inevitably led to bloodshed.

With all the focus placed on the town, care most be made that it does not become the focus of terror attack as the world has suddenly taken a keen interest on the processions that pass through there on an ever-increasing basis.

The bizarre thing is they were already banned under a couple of previous names. Seems like there is a bit of a loophole in the anti-terror laws if a group can just change their name and become "legal" again, which no doubt they will try again. Interesting also that there are jail sentences on offer for being a member of the banned organisation - will be even more interesting to see if Choudray gets taken in...he can hardly deny he is a member....



[edit on 12-1-2010 by BlueOrb]

I have many Muslim friends and am one of the first people who would speak up to defend Muslims against the recent increase in Islamophobia in this country.

However, I will never defend this vile group of nutjobs. These people are dangerous hypocrites who say that they hate Britain and western values... well sorry, but if you hate it so much... GO!

Unless of course they are only staying here to destabilise the country with some twisted objective of taking over with Islamic rule... if that the case... then they should be tried for treason!

This may sound over the top but this group are not just a threat to British traditions and values... They are also a threat to the majority of peaceful law abiding Muslims who live in Britain!

Originally posted by BlueOrb
The bizarre thing is they were already banned under a couple of previous names. Seems like there is a bit of a loophole in the anti-terror laws if a group can just change their name and become "legal" again, which no doubt they will try again. Interesting also that there are jail sentences on offer for being a member of the banned organisation - will be even more interesting to see if Choudray gets taken in...he can hardly deny he is a member....



[edit on 12-1-2010 by BlueOrb]

The problem is, as you say, rebranding. A group can be banned one day and re-form under another guise the next. Until the key members are dealt with, this will always continue. The problem that general public struggle with is that these hate mongers, who seek asylum in UK, are not are not repatriated back to their home of origin. Omar Bakri Mohammed and Abu Hamza are people that fall into the catagory, and then there are the 'home grown radicals' such as Choudary that are harder to control.

Whatever happened to ' i disagree with what you say, but i defend to the death your right to say it?'

Since when has banning anything ever worked?

What I would say is that this group have brought a lot of attention to themselves and will be well on the security services radar, I can't imagine them causing too much trouble, they only have a couple of hundred supporters anyway.

Originally posted by CRB86
Whatever happened to ' i disagree with what you say, but i defend to the death your right to say it?'

Since when has banning anything ever worked?

I think it was the Wotton Basset march that many found offensive that really brought this to a head.

I agree people should have free speech but you have to draw a line. You cant scream fire in crowded cinema for example.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Originally posted by CRB86
Whatever happened to ' i disagree with what you say, but i defend to the death your right to say it?'

Since when has banning anything ever worked?

I think it was the Wotton Basset march that many found offensive that really brought this to a head.

I agree people should have free speech but you have to draw a line. You cant scream fire in crowded cinema for example.

Token politics. Token gesture. So they're banned. Now what? They wouldn't have marched on Basset anyway. Pure publicity stunt, which has been very successful in achieving its aims. All we've got now is an excuse for young muslims to feels a persecution complex.

Smacks of desperation and appeasement. What a pathetic interpretation of the terrorism act. And under what jurisdiction are they using it? Promotion of terrorism? Well that should give them plenty of elbow room at Celtic Park next time there's an Old Firm game. But that won't happen will it.

Originally posted by CRB86
Whatever happened to ' i disagree with what you say, but i defend to the death your right to say it?'

Since when has banning anything ever worked?

The problem with banning groups such as these is that the 'western ideals' such as free speech are thrown out of the window and suddenly unless you fit into certain parameters you are banned.

This is something that the radicals can use as a weapon against the West and inturn convert more home grown muslims to the cause sighting that muslims do not have a voice in multi-racial Britain.

We are in a new age. The days when armed salutes being shot over the caskets of dead 'terrorists' (as was the case with Loyalist and Republican factions in the Northern Ireland) are gone and are never to return. Such an act today would prevoke are different responce.

reply to post by Muckster


Ahh yes, you may say and think that they are dangerous nutjobs, out to destabilize the country and usher in Sharia law and turn Great Britain into an Islamic state.

But the problem lies in proving it.

Do we ban all political groups that we do not agree with? Or those we have a 'hunch' are out to destabilise us?

In this case, i'd agree it was insensitive in the extreme to want to protest in the place that has become synonymous with our soldiers dying in the public mind, and bound to fail...maybe that was the plan all along?

The group were plastered over every news outlet in the world...no publicity is bad publicity when you're trying to make a name for yourself.

As has been said, they can simply change their groups name, and hey presto instant legitimisation! Until that gets banned too of course.

To ban them for good, you would have to do away with democracy...and i for one, would rather suffer these creeps, than take away our democratic right to protest.

Once we start down this road of outlawing protest for certain sections of society, it will be no time at all until they are doing it to the rest of us...and i'm sure that the majority of you would like to see that scenario even less than seeing these creeps protesting.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Yes you can scream fire in a crowded cinema.

Especially if there IS a fire!

Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

Yes you can scream fire in a crowded cinema.

Especially if there IS a fire!

thats not the point. i'll put it this way for you, Should you be able to scream fire in a crowded dark cinema if there is NO fire.

I hate this group and oppose the growth of Islam in wider society- I believe groups should only be banned though, if they are actively involved in promoting violent acts (presumably this was the case?)

I hate that "screaming fire in a crowded cinema" analogy- this was used to curtail criticism of Islam in the last few years


How is

* screaming fire in a crowded cinema (which could result in immediate death and injury as people scramble to exit)

comparable with


* criticising a religion

I just went to their website, this is what they have to say

AL-MUHAJIROUN/ISLAM4UK BAN
IS A VICTORY FOR ISLAM AND MUSLIMS
Press Conference on 12/01/2010 from 1pm

Venue: 4 Millbank, London, SW1P 3XR

The announcement by the Brown regime to proscribe Al-Muhajiroun and Islam4UK is a victory for Islam and Muslims.

When one looks at the terrorism act one can see that the majority of the organisations that have been proscribed under it are Muslim based, in other words, terrorism for the British regime translates as anyone calling for the implementation of the Shari'ah and the liberation of Muslim land.

The hypocrisy of the British government is in the fact that the dictionary definition of terrorism is, "The use of violence against a community or section of the community for political purposes", which is precisely what the British government are doing through their foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan and through their domestic policy via the many draconian laws which have been introduced primarily against the Muslim community.

The ban for Al-Muhajiroun and Islam4UK comes after the announcement of a peaceful procession in Wootton Bassett to highlight the atrocities which have been and are being committed by the British regime supposedly within the framework of freedom of expression. However, what is clear is that if you differ with the Brown regime and those who advocate freedom and democracy and whose citizens are supposedly dying for these ideals abroad, then freedom quickly dissipates to be replaced by dictatorship.

The announcement of the ban by Alan Johnson this morning is a clear case of the oppressor and tyrant blaming the oppressed. Britain has today become an apartheid state, where Muslims are treated as second class citizens. The freedom of expression excuse is used to allow demonstrations against mosques, to allow the Prophet Muhammad (saw) to be abused, for people to shout vitriol against Islam and Muslims publicly and yet when Muslims merely stand up and say that we are being oppressed, that our brothers and sisters are being murdered, that the government must tell the truth about their policies then it is us and not the real criminals who are targeted.

The banning of ideological and political movements such as Al-Muhajiroun and Islam4UK who have never advocated or been involved in any violent or military style activities is an evident failure for democracy and freedom; unlike man-made law Allah (SWT) does not give you a right today only to take it away from you tomorrow, this is the superiority of Islam over man-made law.

Today's ban is another nail in the coffin of capitalism and another sign of the revival of Islam and Muslims. We can see that like our messengers and prophets and our pious predecessors who too were subject to arrests, torture, murder and banning, that when you walk in their footsteps and struggle for what they struggled for i.e. for people to worship, follow and obey nothing except Allah that the Pharaoh will do what the Pharaoh of yesterday did.

Hence, we are not surprised at this latest attack against Islam and Muslims. Indeed, if the Brown regime and its predecessor under Blair can engage in murdering Muslims abroad and occupying Muslim land and subject Muslims to humiliating stop and search measures and outrageously long sentences then a ban is a minor unjust action in comparison.

We will continue to be a part of the Muslim community globally and as Muslims we can never stop praying or fasting or indeed commanding good and forbidding evil which is incumbent on every Muslim. Therefore, those who believe that the voice of Islam can be silenced through threats, bans, arrests or torture (in which the government is also involved through extraordinary rendition), then they are very wrong.

Verily, the messenger Muhammad (saw) said, "Allah showed me the east of the east and the west of the west and I saw that my authority was over the whole of it."

Therefore, we will one day liberate our land from occupation and implement the Shari.ah not just in Muslim countries but also right here in Great Britain. This is something that we believe in, live by and hope that in our lifetime we will witness.

Highlighted some points above which do hold some merit.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


I understood your point the first time.

Playing 'devils advocate', i was suggesting that upwards of a million dead Muslims is the 'fire' in other Muslim eyes.

with the growth of Islam comes the growth in extremism- this is something which goes hand in hand, regardless of what the relativists say.


Mind you, I ask myself, WHO is the real culprit here, these bearded buffoons, or the establishment?

It is the establishment which has given explicit and implicit support to huge levels of immigration (both legal and illegal) often from Islamic nations such as Pakistan, Bangladesh etc and promoted a perverted anti indigenous extremist philosophy called multi culturalism


I know who I really blame.................