Why would God create Man to just spread his word?

A question..

Why God create man just to have him spread his own word and love him?

I've read many things dealing with this sort of issue, but I suppose I just don't get it.

Can somebody try to answer this? I'd love to hear your opinions.

reply to post by Tantalus

Why God create man just to have him spread his own word and love him?

God didn't create man to spread his Word. That is something that came later after man fell.

God didn't create man to love him either as, God is perfect love and as such doesn't need something to love him.

Beyond that, the reason for God's creation of man, I believe, is just going to be speculation for the most part (at least from a Christian perspective). I personally believe that God created everything as a way to display his glory.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by Tantalus

 

I personally believe that God created everything as a way to display his glory.

Holy anthropomorphism! What other is there to display it to? Does he have deeply-rooted insecurities about his abilities?

Kidding aside, I've steered clear from trying to answer that from a temporal perspective. The idea that anything was actually created or came into being leaves me at odds with sensibility.

Thing is,If God made us "in his own image,"then everything that anyone does is what God would do-That includes murder,torture,dropping atom bombs as well as nice stuff like charity work and looking after sick puppies.

So everything we do could be considered to be what God also does/did as we are made in his image.
But,
Also remeber that it was not God who said he created Man-It was Man who said that God created Man.

I don't buy that God created us just to spread word of his existence,for me it would be more logical that if any "God" created us humans,it was for a future army,or future food source.

Ignore me-I am borderline agnostic,with a hint of alien intevention.

reply to post by Tantalus


The spreading of his word stuff came later. The Bible says that God had his followers such as Adam and Eve for thousands or maybe even millions of years before God ever told Moses to write and pass the word down. But that depends on how one reads the creation story how much time passed.

However, before Moses, God just made covenants with followers which were basically just verbal agreements with a particular person or group of people and usually just promises of things to come or an explanation for why something is the way it is. He didn't order anyone to write it down and spread it until much much later.

But then when he did, he did it so the Israelites could become a people. That would lead to the coming of Jesus from those people and then that would lead to a solution to our sin which was Jesus and his sacrifice and the Gospel means "good news". Spreading the NT means you're spreading the good news.

Now I read Genesis as God created us just like he did the other animals. Without a care in the world to frolic and do whatever.

But I think the Garden of Eden story and the Tree of Knowledge story is either literal or a metaphorical story about how we gained consciousness. It's either a literal tree of knowledge or perhaps a metaphorical story about how humans evolved consciousness and self awareness.

And with that conscious came the knowledge of right and wrong and therefore sin entered the world. Like in Genesis. If you read carefully God doesn't care that Adam and Eve are naked. That's the way he made them and that's the way they were the whole time. They were animals. What he got upset about is that Adam and Eve hid from him and were ashamed of their nakedness and so didn't want to be in the presence of God anymore.

Like when an animal is naked there's no problem. It's animal duh. It doesn't know any better. But now humans were ashamed of God's creation because they had developed consciousness and so now they were to live in sin. Now, they "knew" better. Or so they thought anyway.

Because we were animals. We were designed to live like animals and do animal things with animal like desires, but now we have this conscious hanging on us and now we're conflicting with ourselves. We weren't designed to be perfect rule followers, but now we go around making up rules all the time. We will always fall short of that because that's not what we were originally designed for and so we can never be at one with ourselves and the universe. We are always hiding from the presence of God because of our shame because we can't live up to our own standards.

Or not. Maybe one doesn't agree with that, but even if you don't think that's the case, I think that's what the writer(s) of the story were trying to explain.

So now we're not in the presence of God and what does that mean? I think it's a metaphor for our more natural state and being in harmony with nature. I mean humans worry and stress to the point they get sick and get mad and steal and kill each other and do evil things and then feel guilt about it.

Or sometimes they do good things and go try to help the sick and the poor, but they we have sadness and more guilt because we either see the sick and the poor or we are the sick and the poor.

And then we have these ups and downs of fleeting happiness and sadness and we ruin the earth's resources and all kinds of things just because we're not in harmony. We're not in our natural environment anymore because there really is no natural environment for a human anymore. That's why we build houses of course.

But now we have this sin and guilt hanging off us while the animals that are still animals are just animals and they just do animal things and go about their business just fine in perfect harmony with the world like they were designed to do without making up rules and therefore they never break any rules and therefore they don't have any sin nor any knowledge of right and wrong. They don't have to feel guilt or worry about it.

So I think that's what God was mad about. Or you could say worried about. How is he going to deal with this new situation? And maybe it's all just a metaphor too. But it all leads up to Jesus to make a way of forgiveness so we can rid ourselves of this self imposed sin and shame when all God designed us to do was frolic around naked in a garden. Whatever God is of course.

But you could ask not only why did he create us? But why did he create the earth at all or the universe or the other animals? Especially the entire universe when we all just fit on this one planet? To show off his glory maybe? That's what some say, but I don't know. Maybe he just did it because he wanted to?

What is God? Is it just the laws of nature? The universe? Is it really a conscious being outside our perception? I don't really know, but I think the answer to why the universe was created or just happened depending on what you believe, depends on what God is or what you believe it is and if there's an answer I'm not sure the why has completely been revealed yet.

We also have to consider the possibility that there is an answer to the question, but it's simply not one we're able to comprehend at this point too.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by tinfoilman]

reply to post by Tantalus


You raise a good point. This is what a lot of ministers and preachers say. They think they are living the perfect life because their JOB is to spread the word of God. They get paid... I wonder who it is that grows the food they eat? Well they will probably never wonder. Brainwashed they are, and your point is well made.

On a deeper level though, the whole concept is capitalism, interestingly. I never thought of it that way. "Work" and "Worry" and "Fight" for a piece of the pie that could just as easily be given. You have to understand the difference in work on the clock, and the actual work - competition.

Apply that spiritually... and all it seems to come down to is that God does not want to love anything that does not love Him. Interesting.

There is a reason why people can not understand God.
It is not understanding of concept, and of the usage of words,
of the value of questioning Him, and of the value of seeing
even that what hurts (as opposite of ignorance)

God is another word for truth
Jesus mentioned the names of God,
He said I am one with Life, the Way, and Truth, with God.

If people would see the connections between the words,
the bible tells a whole different story, and suddenly even
atheists are like little god-children searching truth between and behind
the trees in the forest. A believer is a searcher.

Jesus never spoke from a god that is connected to his personal
human body, jesus saw his body as all. All is another word for God or Truth.

Because people think God, which is described in the torah and
the prophets as everything there is, equal to Truth, confirmed by gospels and quran as One, but ignored by dogmatic thinking as One,
going against their own law of loving One, because he is All,
including you, because of this blindness they try to categroise god
as not including all, and are actually worshipping the symbol Baal,
which means a divided God, not absolute and as a result not
all powerfull, and not free.

The prophets learned us sceptical thinking :

repent (see)
forgive (understand)

this is the way to salvation. it is evolution in thoughts, it is
growth. It is reflecting.

Jesus focussed a lot on lost sheeps, it is a U-turn,
growth is clockwise. Makes mistakes before it understands,
reflection.

So to answer your question.
Truth is all beliefs,
all can not exclude the lies outside him,
this is the reason of reasoning.
It builds beliefsystems and gives God choice.
It builds the paradox.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds


I really did get a lot out of your post, interesting perspective. But it totally blows the lid on most spiritual thoughts as you say Jesus never looked past his own body?

But... You would judge people for unknowingly worshipping a symbol of Baal, out of ignorance?

That really makes it seem like you just want people to go to hell.

no, you are putting out of context... but not in a bad way,
at least you do question, QUESTIONS, people want them answeed
before they give it time to come to them.

Truth (God) comes down to you.

Actually all humans until in salvation are worshipping a lie,
that lie is baal, so everyone is guilty of believing lies,
and all are equally guilty, it means God is guilty,
and you have to forgive God by seeing him,
this is called GROWTH.

Jesus spoke from the body of God, his body was truth,
or all...thats why he forgives, he knows every judgement is
on on the Self.

Accuser is the left,
from left you go to right,
the defender.
this is the gospel.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds


"and you have to forgive God by seeing him,
this is called GROWTH"

Somehow I knew you would come through. All the side questions I'd love to ask you are probably beside the point. Well answered. I asked those questions in order to get to the point.

According to the Biblical account, Man was created to have fellowship with God.

His word? Says who? A bunch of dead guys a few hundred years ago? Whose heirs, of the heart, if not the body; parrot the party lines even today? Those guys?

I would venture to guess that many of them wouldn't know Gods Word if God reached down and bonked them with a stone tablet...

I dare say that Gods Word was/is/will be different for each and every one of us. Hence the outrageous amount of sectarian fighting that goes on around the word amongst the various religions.

God is a matter of faith, not dogma... Dogma has killed/will kill many millions over the years...faith will heal.

Semantics? Maybe so, I make no claims to omniscience; but it is what I believe.

reply to post by Novise


why dont you ask the sidequestions...
there is forgiveness = understanding to be found,

see and set the goal but the goal is reached indirect,
the goal is where you go,
the sides are the way, the Way is God.

Thats why people who care make mistakes,
thats why religion made mistakes,
it is care that is still young.

the beast is a copy of god,
this world is dual. The beast is the opposite,
comes out of the sea = beliefs = spirits = including humas = beliefsystems
The second beast, earth is ignorance,
it is the false prophet feeding the false ideas,
the religions and philosophies of this world
that can be used for bad and good.
This world is dual, the bible also is dual,
the torah is dual (one god or witnesses to accuse)
and revelation, the prophesies about now,
are dual made, so as delusion was promised.

and still the law is clear = love One.



[edit on 10-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds


People who don't care make mistakes too.

So the side question was dealing with how you view God as one. That is Muslim/Islam inspired is it not? If I am mistaken then I am happy that you will forgive me.

I have found that I love talking to you.

yes ofcourse they make mistakes,
but they dont pay the penny.

God pays all one penny for their work,
not regarding the hour they started working.
Who is God ?
One, it means One pays One a penny of SAME value.

choice is hidden, it means not all who
suffer minor make a choice to do so,
but they are humans and are prisoned in this
to allow them to work or not work.
Ignore or not.

The quran is a confirmation of the gospel
which is a confirmation of the Torah, which
is symbolised in all religions.
and grows the full plant in logic.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds


You are talking to me.

Think about that.

Allowance is a funny thing. You allow somebody to be this or that. Hardly ever do you allow someone to be everything.

reply to post by pasttheclouds


Is it just me or am i the only one to notice that everybody is approaching this thing from a christian point of view? At the top of every psychology, philosophy and metaphysics thread it say:

This new AboveTopSecret.com forum is for the discussion of a wide range of NON-RELIGOUS topics: Consciousness, Mind, Epistemology, Psychology, Philosophy, Metaphysics, Self-Empowerment, Knowledge and also fringe subjects such as Mind-Control and Psychotronic Manipulation. All in all this will be an \"intellectual & philosophical cafe\" with a focus on everything from mental relaxing and NON-RELIGOUS personal balance, to conspiracies and speculation related to influencing the mind.

I mean, they really emphasize on the non-religious part. So in the name of this thread's topic, let's check all religion at the door.

Peace

[edit on 10/1/2010 by operation mindcrime]

reply to post by operation mindcrime


IF you dont understand relgion how will you forgive history,
which means understanding life and allowing life to be
your truth ?

Instead of being afraid of religion, maybe it is time
to understand it.

It is just a suggestion.
If you prefer that i post somewhere else i'll do that.

if you want a full answer on a question like this thread,
you have to allow the full to come in.


[edit on 10-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by Novise


allowance = setting free = is a way, not a state of a human.

reply to post by pasttheclouds


So it is as simple as that?

Letting.

Words rarely used. It is at least refreshing. Or are we just turning in our sleep?